Cement Fibre slates - advise

murman

Hi,
We almost completed installation of the timber structure for our roof. We would obviously like to use natural slate but the budget doesn't allow for this. We've had a look at the Tegral and Capco range of cement Fibre slates and had pretty much decided to go with the Tegral Rivendale Dressed Edge slate costing about 1.83 per slate incl vat. There is a 30 yr structural and 25 yr colour guarantee although I believe that Tegral gave a 12 yr guarantee until recently.

When sourcing a slater, I spoke with quite a few and most recommended a German imported slate commonly referred to as "Blue Diamond". It is a blue/black coloured slate available in 2 varieties - a smooth surface and rippled surface. The smooth surface costs around 1.20 per slate incl vat and the rippled surface about 1.40 incl vat. There is a 20 yr structural and 12 yr colour guarantee.

It is manufactured by Eternit (http://www.eternit.de) who are a parent company of Tegral (I understand) but Tegral have no association with Eternits products and so will not provide any backup service. My understanding is that this slate has been manufactured for about 5 yrs.

Has anyone heard of these slates and more importantly, would anyone recommend that I avoid purchasing them? I will be ordering early in the new year so any prompt feedback would be appreciated

Regards

rooferPete

Hi,

You are right Tegral are owned by Eternit as are many different roofing suppliers / manufacturers, but as you can see the marriage ends where local markets are concerned.

Personally I would prefer the Tegral product because I have used it but more important Athy is easy to get to if you have a problem.

The guarantees from both companies should be closely examined, the Irish Slate is manufactured for our environment, there may be get out clauses that exclude the warranty outside Germany.

Either way I would call Tegral and explain that you want their product on your roof but the price difference is prompting you to order the German product, you then ask them to look at the price difference and request they come back to you with their best price but more important why you should buy the Tegral product.

You may not get them to match the price but they should be able to come close, also they will explain the difference between the products which from my position is the important part.

Their are a lot of products on the market that are "badged" as made in the E.U. but are arriving from China, it is possible to buy natural slate cheaper than both of the prices you quoted but you can be prepared to spend again and in some cases within five years.

.

Victor

What size slates? No use in comparing price on two different slates.

Note you typicly need more than twice the area of slates to cover a roof.

murman

Thanks Rooferpete.

I spoke with the Tegral rep for my area and he emphasised:-
1/ Tegral would not support the product (Fair enough)
2/ Tegral slates designed specifically for the Irish market unlike this product (How significant is this really??)
3/ Colour guarantee.....Tegral 25yr; Eternit 12yr; However, until recently Tegral also had a 12yr guarantee. The rep reckoned that they were happy with colouring of Thrutone slates that had been installed for 5/6 yrs and on this basis decided to offer a 25yr guarantee. Is this as scientific as it gets??

BTW, slate sizes are 600x300

Rgds

Victor

murman wrote:

. The rep reckoned that they were happy with colouring of Thrutone slates that had been installed for 5/6 yrs and on this basis decided to offer a 25yr guarantee. Is this as scientific as it gets??

Its quite possible that this was done scientificly and that based on the wear over the first, 1, 2, 5, years they can extrapolate what its likely to be in 25 years. Its likely that most wear occurs in the first year of use.

murman wrote:

2/ Tegral slates designed specifically for the Irish market unlike this product (How significant is this really??)

I imagine there area few factors to be considered - wind loadings (higher here), snow loadings (higher in Germany), % of time it rains and so on.

rooferPete

Hi,

Tegral have had their problems with colours fading and slates warping in the past, it got to the point at one time the sales office would not take the calls when my name was mentioned.

I wasn't the only one there were a few contractors I know who had similar experiences with them.

In fairness they did replace the roofs when the fault was theirs and to me that is a very important part of the companies history, they displayed how hard they would work to satisfy the customer.

Around the same time there were other slates being imported that looked ok the paperwork made for an interesting read and the prices were often up to 30% cheaper than Tegral.

The big difference was at the first sign of trouble the doors were closed or the companies suffered the Phoenix Syndrome (liquidation on Friday open under a new name on a Monday).

Ireland does have differences in climate even compared to the UK, some of the suppliers had charts showing the areas around Ireland that required special attention or just extra care.

I used the imports once and as I gave a ten year guarantee on materials and workmanship I was very relieved when year eleven came around, I do understand the slaters may be supplying skills on your roof while you do the thinking by supplying the materials.

I have a Riven Slate roof that must be four years old and looks as good as the day the job was finished, attention to detail is important regardless of the material you choose.

Take a look at the slaters tools, a 20 ounce steel hammer for everything and you could be wasting your money giving them good quality slates, a real tradesman will use nothing heavier than a 16 oz wooden handled hammer.

A nice sharp scribe for cutting and maybe a guillotine or cutter for around the chimney etc, ask to see the last job they did, you want to see if the perp lines are straightand no slates are twisting in the valleys or on the hips.

A drill for dry ridges and awkward cut slates that need to be re-holed, a nice three layer eave detail and no slates kicking up especially on the corners.

Regarding the science I am afraid when using most man made products that are exposed to the elements artificial testing will only tell the manufacurer a limited amount.

It does take exposure to a wide variety of elements to give the full report on how a product is holding up, take today, frost and fog this morning, a nice sunny day for the most part and very cold this evening.

Today was a good one, your roof would have been subjected to a small amount of movement, if the primary waterproofing had a few small cracks the water would have expanded and probably started to crack the slates if the top coating is not suited to our strange weather.

Due to the cost difference which is no small amount by any standards if I was in your place I would try to negotiate a better rate, maybe have him throw in the accessories as part of a package deal.

Don't forget He is not the only one who has a part to play in the the price you pay, your merchant may have a percentage he can shave a little especially if you are buying other materials.

If it's a small merchant all the better, because he knows his real margin will be coming from the finishing of your house and all the improvements you will undertake for years to come (sorry).

You are looking at around 400.00 per thousand slates an ideal solution would be to get Tegral to cover a 10% discount and your merchant to haggle out the rest.

I can't remember who said this " The recollecton of quality remains long after the price is forgotten", TBH I would settle for a good quality concrete tile over a man made slate of questionable quality.

.

blackshaun

Hi

i have ravendale slates on my roof and the are cracking at the crap pin and the skin on some of them are piping or moulding

has anyone had these problems