Snagged by The Fuzz

LegacyUser

First, before I start, I know I'm an idiot for doing this so there's no need to point that out.

Anyways, was caught doing 80 km/h in a 50 km/h zone at the end of the N4 outside Heuston Station. I was carrying a pillion at the time (I'm on a provisional and i knew he shouldn't have been there but he was stuck and needed a lift).There's a long sweeping right hander that leads up to Heuston and at the end of it was a traffic cop on a motor bike. Didnt see him at all until he was in the middle of the road with his torch.

Pulled over and accepted the fine, E80 and 2 penalty points. Fair enough. I showed him my insurance and tax which are both up to date. He then asked for my driving license which I didnt have with me. He then said that he was going to take me to court for driving with a pillion and having no license with me.

However, I've just founf my driving license and its 3 months out of date. I totally forgot to get it renewed. I know, I'm an idiot.

Does anyone know what kind of fine I'm gonna get?? The guard said that i could be disqualified. Do you think he was trying to scare me or could that possibly happen?? Any replies much appreciated.

Berkel

Sorry to hear that dude...

Those pr1cks are always there - I was done coming around the bridge at Heuston... like shooting fish in a barrel for them... 2 points and 80 squids.

Anyway, I would say that more than likely it was scare tactics he was using.
If any boarders belong in the Our National Crime Stopping Force, they could shed more light...

Best of luck!

T-Square

You don't have a license
You don't have insurance
You aren't licensed to carry a pillion
You are a disgrace
You must think you have the world by the balls

T-Square

Berkel wrote:

Sorry to hear that dude...

Those pr1cks are always there - I was done coming around the bridge at Heuston... like shooting fish in a barrel for them... 2 points and 80 squids.

Anyway, I would say that more than likely it was scare tactics he was using.
If any boarders belong in the Our National Crime Stopping Force, they could shed more light...

Best of luck!

The plaque dedicated to the death of a biker at that very spot would indicate that speeding bikers are the pricks and not the cops.

The good news is, the judges will be giving out stiffer sentences to people like the clown above for the next few months.

zAbbo

You're going to get the book thrown at you, and rightly so.

It does seem like you are in a lot of trouble and rightly so. You shouldn't be on a bike if you that reckless.

T-Square

zabbo wrote:

You're going to get the book thrown at you, and rightly so.

I can't believe that bozo Spogpean didn't have the cop-on to get a full license during his provisional period.

Perhaps he forgot to sit the test, or perhaps he sat the test, and failed, and then thought he was able to safely carry pillions. :rolleyes:

seamus

T-Square wrote:

You don't have a license

Correct.

You don't have insurance

Incorrect.

There's always a Garda at that section near Heuston, but it's been a long time since I drove in on that road, though I see them most days on the way back out by Heuston.

You're going to be charged with driving unlicenced. You are going to court. There is no way you can get around this. You have been asked to produce, so go to the Garda station, bring your old licence and your insurance with you, and own up to not having a valid licence. Don't try and make excuses, just say that you don't have a licence, you're in the wrong. At the very least you'll have produced insurance, which is the more important of the two.

I'm not going to make any comments regarding your mental abilities, you know that already

Slaanesh

seamus wrote:

Correct.
Incorrect.

There's always a Garda at that section near Heuston, but it's been a long time since I drove in on that road, though I see them most days on the way back out by Heuston.

You're going to be charged with driving unlicenced. You are going to court. There is no way you can get around this. You have been asked to produce, so go to the Garda station, bring your old licence and your insurance with you, and own up to not having a valid licence. Don't try and make excuses, just say that you don't have a licence, you're in the wrong. At the very least you'll have produced insurance, which is the more important of the two.

I'm not going to make any comments regarding your mental abilities, you know that already

Always a decent, well articulated response Seamus unlike the people who like to shoot first and ask questions later.

Hard luck man, hope you don't get it too bad.

T-Square

seamus wrote:

Correct.
Incorrect.

You are incorrect.

He has invalidated the terms of his insurance agreement,
come crash, bang, wallop time you'd probably say he doesn't have insurance, but as it was just a speed check, you think he does have insurance, yes?
That's called a fallacy, any judgements about your mental abilities, well, you already know.

Well articulated, but incorrect, how nice. :rolleyes:

Mr. Presentable

T-Square is correct. No licence = no insurance.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

T-Square wrote:

You are incorrect.

He has invalidated the terms of his insurance agreement,
come crash, bang, wallop time you'd probably say he doesn't have insurance, but as it was just a speed check, you think he does have insurance, yes?
That's called a fallacy, any judgements about your mental abilities, well, you already know.

Well articulated, but incorrect, how nice. :rolleyes:

This is what i hate about this motorbike forum, there are too many people on it who think they are god and know all and never do anything wrong. The OP does have insurance, in EU law he is insured to have the pillion on the bike, even if he isn't licenced to. The insurance is not invalidated with the passenger and if he had been in a crash, then his insurance company would have to pay.

Please get your facts straight before thinking you high and mighty shooting down other posters

LegacyUser

Has he no violated the terms of his insurance by driving without a license - and therefore technically has no insurance?

seamus

T-Square wrote:

He has invalidated the terms of his insurance agreement,
come crash, bang, wallop time you'd probably say he doesn't have insurance, but as it was just a speed check, you think he does have insurance, yes?

Unless he has a different insurance agreement to any I've ever seen, you'll find that his certificate of insurance indemnifies the holder, provided that he "holds or has held a licence for the class or classes of vehicles insured".

It's a subtle wording, but it'll save his ass.

The insurance company are obliged to pay out any claims for pillion passengers, even if he's not licenced to carry them, although they may seek the costs back from the insured.

echomadman

You're boned, go and beg for leniency, try to explain (but not justify) your actions and you might get your punishment reduced.

personally i hope you're disqualified from driving for a while, it might teach you a lesson, or based on your previous actions, make no difference at all to you.

zAbbo

seamus wrote:

Unless he has a different insurance agreement to any I've ever seen, you'll find that his certificate of insurance indemnifies the holder, provided that he "holds or has held a licence for the class or classes of vehicles insured".

It's a subtle wording, but it'll save his ass.

The insurance company are obliged to pay out any claims for pillion passengers, even if he's not licenced to carry them, although they may seek the costs back from the insured.

insurance companies will pay out claims on a pillion passenger, when the policy holder has invalidated the policy by not having a current driving licence for the duration of the policy?>

I work in insurance, and its this type of discrepancy that is used to inform the policy holder to go bend over and touch their toes

Even if you wanted to argue the fine point on this, the OP is looking at an increased premium now, but will probably end up not informing the insurance company of the endorsement, 6 months down the line, getting done for something similar, and maybe ending up with a custodial sentence.

seamus

zabbo wrote:

Even if you wanted to argue the fine point on this, the OP is looking at an increased premium now

Absolutely, I'm not arguing otherwise. Once he's done in court, he's better off dumping the bike and renting/buying a home closer to work and waiting for a couple of years.

I've looked at the two policies I have here, and they both word it very clearly that you are covered provided that you have, at some point, held a licence for the category of vehicle, and have not been disqualified from holding the licence*. I assume this is to allow for cases, like our friend above, where a person may forget to renew their licence, or they do not receive their new licence before the old one expires.

*To the best of my knowledge, a disqualification requires you to reapply for a provisional licence, therefore when the disqualification expires, you can't claim you "have held" a licence for that category

Berkel

T-Square wrote:

The plaque dedicated to the death of a biker at that very spot would indicate that speeding bikers are the pricks and not the cops.

The good news is, the judges will be giving out stiffer sentences to people like the clown above for the next few months.

That wouldn't have anything to do with wet Luas lines running across a curved section of road would it?

murphaph

Can I just say fair play to the Garda for actually enforcing road traffic law. I'm paying €950 a year insurance on a 23 year old 250cc bike TPO because of the number of claims from pillions against their provisionally licenced carrier. I hold a provisional and never have nor never would carry a pillion until I have passed my test. If every Garda enforced this law and every biker caught illegaly carrying pillions was disqualified, we'd all pay UK prices for TP insurance lads! Hibernian didn't leave the bike market because they were making millions in profit from it. They openly blamed the claims from illegaly carried pillions (70%+ of claims apparently) and the lack of Garda enforcement of the law.

Rippy

murphaph wrote:

Can I just say fair play to the Garda for actually enforcing road traffic law. I'm paying €950 a year insurance on a 23 year old 250cc bike TPO because of the number of claims from pillions against their provisionally licenced carrier. I hold a provisional and never have nor never would carry a pillion until I have passed my test. If every Garda enforced this law and every biker caught illegaly carrying pillions was disqualified, we'd all pay UK prices for TP insurance lads! Hibernian didn't leave the bike market because they were making millions in profit from it. They openly blamed the claims from illegaly carried pillions (70%+ of claims apparently) and the lack of Garda enforcement of the law.

Totally agree!
70% of claims from illegally carried passengers is outrageous.
I am sick of seeing little p~icks with their kappa-slappa girlfriends wriggling their fat arses around on the back of their recklessly driven scoots.
Don't know why prov. licence holders in this country are not required to display L plates on bikes. Would make it far easier for plod to give them a tug for not displaying , warn other road users and encourage them to take their test.
I know I couldn't wait to lose the L plates, but here there is nothing to distinguish a qualified rider from a learner.

Rippy

Totally agree!
70% of claims from illegally carried passengers is outrageous.
I am sick of seeing little p~icks with their kappa-slappa girlfriends wriggling their fat arses around on the back of their recklessly driven scoots.
Don't know why prov. licence holders in this country are not required to display L plates on bikes. Would make it far easier for plod to give them a tug for not displaying , warn other road users and encourage them to take their test.
I know I couldn't wait to lose the L plates, but here there is nothing to distinguish a qualified rider from a learner.

scorphonic

Just yesterday I filled out a form for insurance with Aon Bike Care. On the form there was a disclaimer that clearly stated that if I, a provisonal driver, carry a pillion passenger and if the pillion or myself got hurt neither of us would be insured. This is completely resonable since all provisonal drivers cant carry a pillion. I'm just wondering then about all the claims that are made every year by pillion passengers...how come they actually get compensated by the insurance company if it is stated that insurance is exempt in these circumstances?

Hagar

I'd imagine they claim as victims of an uninsured driver.

murphaph

scorphonic wrote:

Just yesterday I filled out a form for insurance with Aon Bike Care. On the form there was a disclaimer that clearly stated that if I, a provisonal driver, carry a pillion passenger and if the pillion or myself got hurt neither of us would be insured.

There was an EU directive issued which stated that ALL TP motorcycle policies MUST cover a pillion, regardless of the legal status of the policyholder. Basically, Aon can write that stuff if they want but when push comes to shove they MUST compensate the pillion passenger fr injuries sustained-no question. They can then claim against the policyholder in a civil court action if they wish. This rarely (ever?) happens however as it's an expensive business going to court, so they just jck up the premiums the rest of us pay. What is needed is rigorous enforcement of the law including disqualification of provisional holders caught with a pillion.

scorphonic

Ah you see...if you want the answers you need to dig really deep! Thanks for that Philip. I think it would be great to actually start disqualifing alright...have never heard of it happening, maybe it does somewhere...but there's still plenty of scooter heads in my village with pillions.:mad: