dooooomed

GallicProphet

:eek: Hey... Have a look at that article....

Dublin is now ressembling a US Sun Belt city...
irreversibly car dependent and the only fix for
commuting woes according to this guy would be Bus based as opposed to Rail based due to low density.

Pretty robust argumentation in the article

http://www.davy.ie/other/pubarticles/Sprawl2004.pdf

shltter

It is a interesting report in that it highlights the fact that we just spent nearly €1 billion putting LUAS into an area whos population is declining or stagnant and completely ignored the Fingal area of the city which had a population growth of 17.1% from 1996 to 2002

SeanW

Yeah, rail investment in Dublin City is a total waste of time. That's why the DART and Short haul Commuter services are at capacity or overcrowded at peak time, and the Luas was stuffed almost from Day 1. Rail is a real waste and more roads are the only solution >_<

This muppet gets trotted out every now and then to grab some headlines.

Metrobest

Nobody should take Doctor McCarthy seriously. Two of his five research sources are.. himself. How clever. The core of his argument, such as he has one, is that Dublin is so badly sprawled there is no need to build more luas or metro or even rail; just give those pesky folks what they want: more motorways and bus lanes.

If he sat down for a second and applied the cold "logic" in which he specialises, he would realise that the present sprawl is a direct result of past planning failures, foresmost amonst which was the abject failure to provide high density transport solutions - ie. light rail and metro.

With selective use of census data, he fails to understand why rail has actually increased its share over the period, why luas in on target to meet and indeed exceed passenger targets, and why the Dublin metro is such an important tool in stimulating high density housing in the Dublin region. A huge chunk of the citizens in Dublin don't want to use their cars; they feel there is no other option as the bus network is not efficient and will never move mass numbers of people like a luas or a metro.

McCarthy may wish to live in a US-style doughnut city but most people don't. US-sunbelt cities don't work, and neither do Colm McCarthy's yellow pack solutions for Ireland's transport problems.

BrianD

Unfortuantely, I think the guy is right. Bad planning and spatial strategy and pure greed has meant that suburbia has now spread all over the country. There is no way we can service those people by rail. It has to be bus. This is not to say that we should not continue with rail/tram development within the urban centres. The DART line has shown that housing density will increase where there is a rail link.

The only solution is to have a realistic spatial plan and a transport authority that has a veto on development plans. To be honest we need to stop this rampant development in rural parts and start building sustainable communities. Personally, I would be in favour of higher taxation and service charges for those living in unstainable developments.

However, in the long run all the sprawl will continue as there are too many vested and greedy interests. It seems that our economic wealth is now based on real estate and not sustainable industry. Nobody is going to try and curb the sprawl or it would be the end of life as we know it.

murphaph

BrianD wrote:

Personally, I would be in favour of higher taxation and service charges for those living in unstainable developments.

I agree entirely, with one caveat-genuinely affordable medium/high density units should be available in the urban centres, otherwise it's just a tax on folks who can't afford to buy in Dublin etc. One off housing, of any description should be taxed punitively on the basis of increased cost of services provision.

BrianD

Well perhaps not higher taxation but higher service charges.

Propellerhead

BrianD wrote:

There is no way we can service those people by rail. It has to be bus.

This has been the excuse used for thirty years for creating a car based transport system in Dublin and its hinterland.

Bus = Do nothing.

Capt'n Midnight

Propellerhead wrote:

This has been the excuse used for thirty years for creating a car based transport system in Dublin and its hinterland.

Bus = Do nothing.

We need a stop gap solution. Buses are it. Rolling stock easily lasts 30 years while the buses would be ready to be replaced by the time any meaningful rail infrasturcture was put in place. The tram network we had would have been great, but highly unlikely to get put back.

DB get €60m per year from the Govt and for that they provide 150m journies. IR are investing €1Bn in existing tracks, that will only cater for relatively small amount of journies in the big smoke. How many QBC's would you need to replace the passenger numbers on the LUAS, I'd doubt I'd run out of fingers on one hand.

We have to get people out of cars. [Broken Record]80% of the wokforce in Lucan / Clondalkin work elsewhere, there are many choke points M50 / Canal / rail / N4 / Liffey and the vast majority of the public bus routes go east to town and not north/south. My journey is 6 miles. To use buses where there are more than 20 per day I'd have to add a mile of walking, and then I'd need to change buses on the other side of the M50 and back again[/Broken Record]