Car tax office puts brakes on 'off the road' excuse

testicle

From today's indo...


MOTORISTS won't be able use the excuse that their car was "off the road" to avoid paying road tax.

A new system, whereby drivers will have to continue paying road tax unless they fill in a special form, is on the way.

Until now, drivers could avoid paying tax by simply signing a declaration that their car was off the road for a given period.

Environment Minister Dick Roche said yesterday that he is considering the introduction of a system of continuous registration.

This would oblige drivers to continue paying road tax unless they fill in a statutory off-road notification.

Mr Roche said the behaviour of motorists who persistently evade motor tax was not acceptable.

The Minister yesterday disclosed that some 30pc of vehicle owners are taxing their cars online.

Since March last year it has been possible to renew motor tax online.

seamus

Same as they have in the UK. Frankly, I'm for it as a tool for catching those who don't bother taxing/insuring.

MercMad

Yes I agree. Its about time and still facilitates the genuine folk who have their car off the road for a period each year !

Kersh

agreed. its a great idea.

seamus

MercMad wrote:

Yes I agree. Its about time and still facilitates the genuine folk who have their car off the road for a period each year !

Even if you're unsure if your car will be off the road for a time, that's what the three month disc is for.

I can't really see any good arguments against this, particularly now that the online system is being extended to new and newly-registered vehicles.

japanpaul

From yesterday you can also tax new and imported cars online. Taxed my Japanese Import last night in less than 5 minutes. Just entered the reg number and some of the chasis number.
How can Ireland be so hi-tech in some things but light years behind in others?

drdre

yeah its a great idea,japanpaul what import did u get

ciarsd

was nice news to hear alright.

now to get folk paying car tax through fuel prices instead... more miles you travel the more tax ye pay...

BrianD

MercMad wrote:

Yes I agree. Its about time and still facilitates the genuine folk who have their car off the road for a period each year !

Who would they be?

japanpaul

drdre wrote:

yeah its a great idea,japanpaul what import did u get

It's a Toyota Yaris VVTI. I owned it when I lived over there so I saved the E2500 on any vrt

layke

I'm waiting for the EU to make Ire drop the VRT charge before I buy a new motor, then i'm going to import a new car from the UK just to spite overpriced Irish Car garages.

As for the offroad bit, I though thats what our local tax police, cough* i mean Traffic core Garda are for? Don't they endlessly f**k up traffic while checking for tax at the most inapropriate times?

KeRbDoG

I had to fill in a form already when my TAX was up on my Mini. A section to say that the car was no longer on the road and the reason why.

Savman

ciarsd wrote:

was nice news to hear alright.

now to get folk paying car tax through fuel prices instead... more miles you travel the more tax ye pay...

now how exactly would that work? :rolleyes:

De Hipster

ciarsd wrote:

was nice news to hear alright.

now to get folk paying car tax through fuel prices instead... more miles you travel the more tax ye pay...

That system is already in use.

Interceptor

ciarsd wrote:

was nice news to hear alright.

now to get folk paying car tax through fuel prices instead... more miles you travel the more tax ye pay...

I already pay enough tax on my petrol thanks. I want more of the tax collected from my motoring spend to go into actually making the road network better. And don't start me on driver training/testing...

'c

ciarsd

Savman wrote:

now how exactly would that work? :rolleyes:

its a worked system and workable for this country.

simple. let petrol prices absorb the costs of motor tax - eliminating motor tax as we know and hate it.
therefore, the more petrol your buying, the more your using, the more mileage you are doing (and in particular to trucks and HGV, the more damage your doing to the roads!)

ciarsd

De Hipster wrote:

That system is already in use.

not in this country it aint!

kdevitt

ciarsd wrote:

its a worked system and workable for this country.

simple. let petrol prices absorb the costs of motor tax - eliminating motor tax as we know and hate it.
therefore, the more petrol your buying, the more your using, the more mileage you are doing (and in particular to trucks and HGV, the more damage your doing to the roads!)

Its a great idea...shame it won't happen. I drive my car at the weekends, and occasionally during the week - I don't see whay I should have to pay the same road tax as a sales rep doing 1000 miles a week, especially since its the guts of a grand a year for mine.

michaelanthony

kdevitt wrote:

Its a great idea...shame it won't happen. I drive my car at the weekends, and occasionally during the week - I don't see whay I should have to pay the same road tax as a sales rep doing 1000 miles a week, especially since its the guts of a grand a year for mine.

A sales rep 'doing' 1000 miles a week is effectively paying more tax than you through buying extra fuel and hence paying tax on this.

kdevitt

michaelanthony wrote:

A sales rep 'doing' 1000 miles a week is effectively paying more tax than you through buying extra fuel and hence paying tax on this.

...and doing more damage to the roads and emitting more co2, hence they should contribute more in road tax than I have to.

Savman

ciarsd wrote:

its a worked system and workable for this country.

simple. let petrol prices absorb the costs of motor tax - eliminating motor tax as we know and hate it.
therefore, the more petrol your buying, the more your using, the more mileage you are doing (and in particular to trucks and HGV, the more damage your doing to the roads!)

That's rubbish, by far the most silly suggestion I've heard. Those "trucks and HGV" just so happen to be supplying food to your local supermarket, fuel to your local fuel station and delivering mail to your very door on a 24/7 basis.

What you're basically saying is we should penalise everyday business, which in turn would end up costing you more from definite increased prices for everything as these high mileage vehicles are the mostly to keep the boody country running. We already pay tax on motors, as well as tax on fuel, you're saying there should be another tax if we choose to do "x" amount of miles in a given period?

pfff:mad:

kdevitt

Savman wrote:

That's rubbish, by far the most silly suggestion I've heard. Those "trucks and HGV" just so happen to be supplying food to your local supermarket, fuel to your local fuel station and delivering mail to your very door on a 24/7 basis.

What you're basically saying is we should penalise everyday business, which in turn would end up costing you more from definite increased prices for everything as these high mileage vehicles are the mostly to keep the boody country running. We already pay tax on motors, as well as tax on fuel, you're saying there should be another tax if we choose to do "x" amount of miles in a given period?

pfff:mad:

They can all claim their tax back as its used for their business, so they won't be out of pocket afaik.

It would work perfectly for those who choose to use their car instead of the train or bus, and should work out in or about what your annual road tax would be (assuming the annual road tax is scrapped). It won't penalise anyone, but will benefit those who don't do large mileages.

Savman

kdevitt wrote:

It would work perfectly for those who choose to use their car instead of the train or bus.

Now you're into a different thing altogether!

<cue public transport adequacy debate>

ciarsd

Savman wrote:

That's rubbish, by far the most silly suggestion I've heard. Those "trucks and HGV" just so happen to be supplying food to your local supermarket, fuel to your local fuel station and delivering mail to your very door on a 24/7 basis.

What you're basically saying is we should penalise everyday business, which in turn would end up costing you more from definite increased prices for everything as these high mileage vehicles are the mostly to keep the boody country running. We already pay tax on motors, as well as tax on fuel, you're saying there should be another tax if we choose to do "x" amount of miles in a given period?

pfff:mad:

less of the agression Savman - you clearly missed my point

I never said pay 'another' tax - if you read my post again, you will find that I said, let the cost of fuel absorb motor tax, so you end up paying it (the motor tax) through the amount of fuel you consume - more miles, more tax, simple really.

And with regards to your point on trucks, do you really think they're all out on the roads making a loss every day? Get real!

:rolleyes:

ciarsd

kdevitt wrote:

They can all claim their tax back as its used for their business, so they won't be out of pocket afaik.

It would work perfectly for those who choose to use their car instead of the train or bus, and should work out in or about what your annual road tax would be (assuming the annual road tax is scrapped). It won't penalise anyone, but will benefit those who don't do large mileages.

ah, someone understands my post! Thanks K.:D

Savman

ah get a room you two:rolleyes:

Is there an advanced public transport system in Ireland? Nope. If you own a car and do low mileage or hardly any at all, then why do you own a car? Because it is your right to do so. Likewise with driving, if you choose to drive all over the country for fun, you are pefectly entitled to do so without being further penalised.

kdevitt

Savman wrote:

ah get a room you two:rolleyes:

Is there an advanced public transport system in Ireland? Nope. If you own a car and do low mileage or hardly any at all, then why do you own a car? Because it is your right to do so. Likewise with driving, if you choose to drive all over the country for fun, you are pefectly entitled to do so without being further penalised.

You're a ****ing idiot.

kdevitt

kdevitt wrote:

You're a ****ing idiot.

That word was F U C K I N G in case you're too stupid to fill the blanks

Savman

kdevitt wrote:

You're a ****ing idiot.

And that's a fact is it? :rolleyes:

I don't see the point in posting rubbish like that, I mean, why bother?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Savman

kdevitt wrote:

That word was F U C K I N G in case you're too stupid to fill the blanks

Nope I got it 1st time round, unlike some...:D

Con_316

testicle wrote:

From today's indo...


MOTORISTS won't be able use the excuse that their car was "off the road" to avoid paying road tax.

A new system, whereby drivers will have to continue paying road tax unless they fill in a special form, is on the way.

Until now, drivers could avoid paying tax by simply signing a declaration that their car was off the road for a given period.

Environment Minister Dick Roche said yesterday that he is considering the introduction of a system of continuous registration.

This would oblige drivers to continue paying road tax unless they fill in a statutory off-road notification.

Mr Roche said the behaviour of motorists who persistently evade motor tax was not acceptable.

The Minister yesterday disclosed that some 30pc of vehicle owners are taxing their cars online.

Since March last year it has been possible to renew motor tax online.

Not so easy as you make out bud. I had to declare a car was off road a few months ago. You have to go get it signed by the gardai too.

Con_316

seamus wrote:

Same as they have in the UK. Frankly, I'm for it as a tool for catching those who don't bother taxing/insuring.

Not same as uk. In ul they have the "Sorn" (s.o.r.n. statutory off road declaration.) It's actually more long term than this proposal. The uk government are in the process of trying to bring in a ridicukous possession tax for owning a car, as well as a proposed fee of something like 350 pound for undoing the SORN. Many old vehicles will be made go through "s.v.a." tests in UK a sort of type approval as if it was a new brand of car if theyve been SORN'ed for a long time. I'd sat it'll go that way here soo too.

seamus

Con_316 wrote:

Not so easy as you make out bud. I had to declare a car was off road a few months ago. You have to go get it signed by the gardai too.

That's only if you want to go and get it taxed. Plus the Gardai don't actually check. So long as you're not a known scumbag, they'll just sign the form. Plenty of people drive around for years without any form of taxation (or insurance).

The problem is with self-policing. A lot of legislation in this country puts the onus on the citizen to do the right thing. They can only be caught by random checks. Now, this worked fine years ago, but not in this day and age. People need to be chased up and the record of their requirement to pay has to be taken.

CrowdedHouse

seamus wrote:

That's only if you want to go and get it taxed. Plus the Gardai don't actually check.

That's true,some years ago I was out of the country,when I came back and wanted to put my car back on the road it was well over a year since it was last taxed.
Down to the local cop shop with the form,I was expecting to be grilled and so brought some proof with me - yer man never even looked at the form just did the stamp and handed it back.

Con_316

seamus wrote:

That's only if you want to go and get it taxed. Plus the Gardai don't actually check. So long as you're not a known scumbag, they'll just sign the form. Plenty of people drive around for years without any form of taxation (or insurance).

The problem is with self-policing. A lot of legislation in this country puts the onus on the citizen to do the right thing. They can only be caught by random checks. Now, this worked fine years ago, but not in this day and age. People need to be chased up and the record of their requirement to pay has to be taken.

Problem is, sometimes they do check up on it apart from on the roadside. it has happened. anyway i was only talking about if you were trying to tax it again, as in when/if you're caught by the gardai on the road.
Spaking of checkpoints i had a "lovely" experience with a right pri*k of a gard the other day when he took exception to my car abd nade me pull into grass verge, subsequently causing me to partially break off my front bumper (brand new BMW M technik II, sprayed the previous day) because he stood there saying, "go on, up there, pull it in more and wasnt happy till i was on top of the grassy bit in my Rather low car (factory low, before anyone starts to berate me and call me a boy racer).
Anyway he kept me ther for 25 minutes and when he found nothing he could give out about on my car, he gave out about my clothing and said it was anti social. i was perfectly civil all through it he'd really taken a dislike to me.

@MODS, sorry for my rant there, just all came out ther, will start new thread if going to continue that line. Not planning on it though.

69 mustang

seamus wrote:

Same as they have in the UK. Frankly, I'm for it as a tool for catching those who don't bother taxing/insuring.

But in the UK you can cash in your tax disc if you take your car off the road and the road tax is cheaper.:)

Our man in Havana

The whole system is doomed to failure. What about all those untaxed tractors out there, the farmers won't pay up on these.
What about all the scrapped cars that people never bothered to tell the tax office they are gone? These will still be in the system somewhere. Grannies getting threats in the post on a car she gave away 20 years ago. The bulk of any penalties won't get paid and will be come a nightmare to enforce.

AMurphy

testicle wrote:

From today's indo...


MOTORISTS won't be able use the excuse that their car was "off the road" to avoid paying road tax.

A new system, whereby drivers will have to continue paying road tax unless they fill in a special form, is on the way.
......

Is this allowed for paying tax in arrears for those who forget to pay for months on end and turn up at teh tax office one day 6 months later or for the months/year ahead.

Here, if you are late, missed the renewal, etc, you pay the full amount for the past, and you can apply to have it off the road for the time ahead.
And if you were driving about in a car with expired registration and caught, it woud be impossible to claim it was off the road, and if caught driving a car that was registered as off the road, not sure what the consequences would be, probably let you carry on, with 10 days to pay all the arrears + penelties, etc.

Our man in Havana

AMurphy wrote:

Is this allowed for paying tax in arrears for those who forget to pay for months on end and turn up at teh tax office one day 6 months later or for the months/year ahead.

Here, if you are late, missed the renewal, etc, you pay the full amount for the past, and you can apply to have it off the road for the time ahead.
And if you were driving about in a car with expired registration and caught, it woud be impossible to claim it was off the road, and if caught driving a car that was registered as off the road, not sure what the consequences would be, probably let you carry on, with 10 days to pay all the arrears + penelties, etc.

There will be so much wriggle room that it will become a joke.

WhiteWashMan

kdevitt wrote:

You're a ****ing idiot.

banned