[Article] PDs unveil regeneration plan for Dublin port

Maskhadov

PDs unveil regeneration plan for Dublin port
Last updated: 15-12-05, 12:25
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/1215/breaking39.htm
Dublin Bay would be transformed into a Manhattan-style skyline under redevelopment plans unveiled today by the Progressive Democrats.

Senator Tom Morrissey said he wanted to see the industrial activity of Dublin Port gradually moved to Bremore, north of Balbriggan, enabling massive urban regeneration of the bay area.

The plan envisages housing, offices, shops, waterfront promenades and parks being built on more than 600 acres of land freed up by the move. The port would be redeveloped for cruise liners.

"This has the potential to create a spectacular Manhattan-style approach to Dublin by sea," Mr Morrissey said. "The plan draws on international experience in cities like Helsinki and Barcelona where run-down port areas have been transformed beyond recognition.

"It would breath life into Dublin Bay, which is currently an under-used asset."

The proposals unveiled by the PDs at the International Financial Services Centre today also aim to deliver a truck-free city.

"The ideas we are putting forward would solve Dublin Port's capacity problem while allowing for the development of `A New Heart for Dublin' in the future," Mr Morrissey said.

Mr Morrissey said his party's proposal was intended to spark debate on how best to develop Dublin Bay, which he described as a unique asset in the heart of the capital. He said he welcomed submissions and suggestions from the public and interested parties on the best way to utilise the bay.

PA


© 2005 ireland.com

It has my backing.

you can see the full story here

http://www.archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=1310&d=1134675013

Progressive Democrats launch 'A New Heart for Dublin'
http://www.progressivedemocrats.ie/press_room/1616/

Thursday 15th December 2005

Dublin Bay could resemble the dramatic Manhattan skyline if a radical new Progressive Democrats plan is adopted.

'A New Heart for Dublin', a PD discussion document on the future of the Bay, was launched today by the Party's Transport Spokesman Senator Tom Morrissey. Justice Minister Michael McDowell was also on hand to lend his support to the event in the Clarion Hotel at the IFSC.

The proposal would involve redeveloping Dublin Port as a centre for cruise liner traffic, as part of a major urban regeneration project.

"This has the potential to create a spectacular Manhattan-style approach to Dublin by sea. The plan draws on international experience in cities like Helsinki and Barcelona where run-down port areas have been transformed beyond recognition. It would breath life into Dublin Bay, which is currently an underused asset,” according to Senator Tom Morrissey.

The Dublin North Senator is arguing that industrial port activity be moved gradually from the already over-stretched Dublin Port to Bremore, north of Balbriggan.

This would free-up 600-plus acres of Ireland's most valuable real estate for phased redevelopment, which could include housing, office accommodation, shops, waterfront promenades and green spaces.

The proposals also aim to deliver a truck-free city.

"The ideas we are putting forward would solve Dublin Port's capacity problem while allowing for the development of 'A New Heart for Dublin' in the future," he said.

"When you consider that Irish imports and exports have grown five-fold since 1990, then it is really no surprise that Dublin Port currently has a capacity problem. The worrying reality of the situation is that the Port is likely to run out of capacity by 2008. The consequences for our economy will be profound as exporters and importers face increasing delays and costs in getting goods to market.

"This proposal by the Progressive Democrats is intended to spark debate on how best to develop Dublin Bay - an unique asset in the heart of our capital city. We welcome submissions and ideas from members of the public and interested groups on how the bay can be best used for the people of Dublin," Senator Morrissey concluded.

gjim

Mine too. It was a dreadful decision originally not to move the port but I guess the tunnel would still be very useful for buses (and commuting) and as a road link from the redeveloped docks to the motorway network.

Maskhadov

from the irish times

Relocate Dublin Port call by PDs
Frank McDonald, Environment Editor




The Progressive Democrats have called for Dublin Port to be relocated to a new site in north Co Dublin and its land to be developed for high-rise apartments and offices as well as shops, waterfront promenades and green spaces.

"This has the potential to create a spectacular Manhattan-style approach to Dublin by sea," Senator Tom Morrissey, the party's transport spokesman, said yesterday at the launch of its plan, A New Heart for Dublin.

The PD plan draws on international experience in cities such as Helsinki where cargo ports have been relocated and run-down port areas "transformed beyond recognition", he said. It would also "breathe life into Dublin Bay". Senator Morrissey said freight and industrial activities should be "moved gradually from the already overstretched Dublin Port" to a 150-acre site at Bremore, north of Balbriggan, where Drogheda Port has ambitious development plans.

He noted that Bremore is located close to the M1 motorway and the Dublin-Belfast railway line and that its development had the full support of Fingal County Council, "which can't be said about Dublin Port and its local authority". The Senator, who intends to contest a Dáil seat in Dublin North at the next general election, said relocating the cargo port to Bremore would "free-up 600-plus acres of Ireland's most valuable real estate for phased redevelopment".

It would also "turn Dublin into a truck-free city, just as Mary Harney made it a smog-free city 15 years ago" as well as dealing with the "worrying reality" that Dublin Port is likely to run out of capacity to cope with freight volumes by 2008.

Given that Irish imports and exports had grown five-fold since 1990, he said it was no surprise the port had a capacity problem. "The consequences for our economy will be profound as exporters and importers face increasing delays and costs". But Senator Morrissey made it clear that the PDs opposed the port's controversial plan to fill in a further 52 acres of Dublin Bay, saying "the ping-pong between the Department of the Marine and Dublin City Council on this issue has to come to an end". He conceded, however, that plans to relocate the port were being opposed by Ibec, whose transport committee is chaired by Enda Connellan, Dublin Port's chief executive. "The haulage industry is totally supportive, so who do Ibec represent?" he asked.

In addition to billing itself as a "major urban regeneration project", the PD plan envisages developing Dublin Bay as a centre for cruise liner traffic, which last year brought in 70 ships with a total of 200,000 passengers who spent €100 million in the city.

Asked about the exposure of the port's land area to rising sea levels as a result of global warming, Senator Morrissey said this issue would have to be addressed by redevelopment plans. "What we're trying to do with this is to fuel a public debate," he added.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2005/1216/3956055586HM9DUBLINPORT.html

© The Irish Times

from the indo

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1526795&issue_id=13415
Manhattan comes to Docks in ambitious new plan
ADVERTISEMENT

Fionnan Sheahan

Political Correspondent

DUBLIN'S port will be turned into a Manhattan-style metropolis if a plan from the PDs gets the go-ahead.

The Progressive Democrats want to see hundreds of acres in Dublin Bay transformed in a plan costing tens of billions of euro and taking 20 years to complete.

The proposal, an image of which is shown right, involves moving the existing Dublin Port to north county Dublin freeing up a land bank of over 650 acres of state-owned property in the heart of the city.

In its place, the party wants to build a city quarter with 80,000 people living in it, along with offices, shops, businesses, parks, marinas, a cruise line terminal and waterfront walkways.

Similar plans have worked in cities like Helsinki and Barcelona, according to PD transport spokesman Senator Tom Morrissey.

"This has the potential to create a spectacular Manhattan-style approach to Dublin by sea.

It would breathe life into Dublin Bay, which is currently an underused asset," he said.

The new Dublin Port Tunnel would still be used as a "vital artery" for the capital but the plan is to take the trucks out of the city centre and stop the city being strangled by traffic.

Acknowledging Charlie Haughey's vision in developing the IFSC and Dublin Docklands in the late 1980s, PD president and Justice Minister Michael McDowell said only a total naysayer would say it had not been a success.

"A lifetime in politics is bound to have some good results," he quipped.

Mr McDowell said the proposal will probably form part of the party's manifesto at the next election. The plan would involve making the Port of Bremore, north of Balbriggan, the main hub for importing and exporting in the country. The port has access to a land bank in excess of 1,500 acres already zoned by Fingal and Meath County Councils. Bremore would also be connected to the M1 motorway.

Dublin Port is trying to reclaim 52 acres from the sea near Clontarf to expand its operation but that plan has little political support.

The discussion document launched by the PDs yesterday got a mixed response. Employers group Ibec, the Dublin Chamber of Commerce and Dublin Port gave it the thumbs down, while West Dublin Chamber of Commerce and environmental lobbyists welcomed it.

Dublin Chamber of Commerce's Ronan King said "Dublin Port is extremely important to the business of Dublin."

IBEC's Reg McCabe said the organisation was "vehemently opposed" to the vision and said the plan oversold Bremore while underselling the environmental impact.

After 30 years of campaigning against the expansion of the port, former TD Sean Loftus warmly welcomed the plan, saying Dublin was strangled from traffic.

Bluetonic

Totally against this proposal.

With the amount of heritage sites in and around Bremore you'd find staunch opposition to this.

Thankfully the PDs can come up with this bull****e as they are unlikely to have any power in the forming of the next government.

stag39

Bluetonic wrote:

Totally against this proposal.

With the amount of heritage sites in and around Bremore you'd find staunch opposition to this.

Thankfully the PDs can come up with this bull****e as they are unlikely to have any power in the forming of the next government.

bluey sttop living in de past!!!! would you be against any building work...ie.. a house extension covering up a toy some kid mis placed a decade ago?

on topic it's about time that something like this is being pushed for debate in the dail!!

Bluetonic

stag39 wrote:

bluey sttop living in de past!!!! would you be against any building work...ie.. a house extension covering up a toy some kid mis placed a decade ago?

on topic it's about time that something like this is being pushed for debate in the dail!!

Stop following me around!!

To be honest I am disguted with the way the Country is turning to North County Dublin and using and abusing it.

Oh look we'll relocate Mountjoy there.

Oh look we'll relocate Dublin Port there.

Oh look we'll relocate Drogheda Port there.

Oh look we'll build the biggest sewage treatment plant in the country there.

Oh look we'll build an incinerator there.

Oh look we'll build the countrys biggest dump there.

And all this within a 10 mile radius of each other.

stag39

Bluetonic wrote:

Stop following me around!!

To be honest I am disguted with the way the Country is turning to North County Dublin and using and abusing it.

Oh look we'll relocate Mountjoy there.

Oh look we'll relocate Dublin Port there.

Oh look we'll relocate Drogheda Port there.

Oh look we'll build the biggest sewage treatment plant in the country there.

Oh look we'll build an incinerator there.

Oh look we'll build the countrys biggest dump there.

And all this within a 10 mile radius of each other.

well we the southsiders an i can say that being born an reared a southsider inso far as the rotunder is actually north of the river...nuff said bout that...

we had the cabinteely thing ...an if u turn southwards an gaze to those things called hills yes we have better views too an course u wouldnt want anything like mountjoy to be placed up there right in ur sight like...:p

johnnyrotten

stag39 wrote:

well we the southsiders an i can say that being born an reared a southsider inso far as the rotunder is actually north of the river...nuff said bout that...

Please re-enter this in English please

Bluetonic

One other interesting this is that I see Tom Morrissey is the PDs spokesperson on Transport and his constituency is Dublin North, the area where he proposes to redvelop Dublin Port.

I can't see him being elected becasue of the major opposition to this.

I would love to hear the debate on this between his fellow Dublin North TD elect and Green Party Leader Trevor Sargent.

Nuttzz

Morrisey is a senator, you wont see any meaningful debate between a senator and a TD tbh

Maskhadov

At the end of the day, ordinary people are busting themselves to meet sky high house/apartment prices in Dublin.

If this project went ahead it would mean that the ordinary joe soap could afford to live and work in the same place. Hows about that for a strange idea.

People in Bremore could get compensation.

shltter

First why come forward with this proposal after spending a billion Euro building a tunnel to the current port

Second the PDs are in Government if this is such a good idea do it. The PDs have no intention of doing this if they did they would not be announcing it like an opposition party proposal. It is an attempt to raise the profile of Morrisey in North Dublin nothing more nothing less.

Maskhadov

The PD's have stated that the port tunnel would be an integeral part of the new plan. I dont know how personally.

I know its a political party that came up with this plan but anyone can implement it be it FF or FG. Dublin will need a major project because the construction boom will fizzle out eventually.

Sarsfield

Would it be more advantageous to consider expanding Cork, Foynes, Waterford, Drogheda etc. rather than further concentrating on Dublin Port?

With an improving road & rail network I can't see why this wouldn't be a better option.

meditraitor

Bluetonic wrote:

Totally against this proposal.

With the amount of heritage sites in and around Bremore you'd find staunch opposition to this.

Thankfully the PDs can come up with this bull****e as they are unlikely to have any power in the forming of the next government.

What he said...... balbriggan is already been squeezed under the weight of unchecked development

NIMBY

stag39

johnnyrotten wrote:

Please re-enter this in English please

eh it is in english????

also looked at the proposal picutre in the papers.... the proposed building of the manhatten style skyline is to be built on the southside of the river.......ie. ringsend!!!!

Sarsfield

stag39 wrote:

the proposed building of the manhatten style skyline is to be built on the southside of the river.......ie. ringsend!!!!

The tall buildings might block the smell of sewage from wafting up the river

Maskhadov

what would they do with the stacks and the sewage treatment plants ?

Metrobest

It's a very interesting plan, on paper at least. I'd like to see some more detail on it. I'd love if Dublin could do something like this because it's forward-looking and it's about creating the kind of city that people will still want to live and work in fifty years from now. But if the construction of a relatively minor building at the Dun Laoghaire baths site caused such palpitations, I shudder to think what kind of opposition this project could run into..!

NewDubliner

Let's not forget that the PDs are determined, no matter what the cost, to move over 10,000 people and their families out of Dublin. This is supposedly because there's too much development in Dublin and will (for no known logic) reduce traffic congestion.

The PDs are a party of grand ideas but no concept of planning or cost control.

Why not move Dublin Port to Birr?

Morpheus

I have lived in Balbriggan all my life and at this stage, I wish they would just nuke the town.

It has been DESTROYED!

All the high density battery hen housing schemes have jammed people together, road infrastructure is creaking under the weight of development vehicles and the town centre was complete sh!te to drive through until they put in parking metres.

I wanted to live in my home area when i got working, but now? Well i've been priced out of my village (yes village because thats what we were before all this crap cheap useless housing went in).

I initially felt so flipping angry at all the people whove moved here, why couldnt they fe*k off and live elsewhere?

And yet I now understand, it wasnt their fault. they too had been priced out of their respective areas, and now i must say goodbye to my boyhood home, now ive to go and move to someone elses village where ill unhappily live in a mid terrace house, with no alley, no front, no back garden, no parking space, no facilities to do anything except eat and sleep there and the locals will feel alienated towards ME. And every weekend ill join the mass exodus heading "home" to see friends and relatives.


Integration with the local community has been a slow and painful experience for a lot of the newcomers, but its improving.

I thought, how can these people whove moved to Balbriggan think its lovely when their very homes have destroyed its beauty. Time was I could walk along the coast and not meet a soul, now you have to jostle for walking space and to top it ALL, theyve decided to obliterate Cromwells harbour and the passage graves and the picture perfect scenery and wildlife in the name of progress.

Well heres the 2 fingers to all those city slickers who think this is great because its being moved out of the city. No way will it go ahead, my town (including new settlers) and a couple of other local villages feel the same so we will have a huge movement against the parties to prevent this eyesore going ahead.

Drogheda Port is in Louth, go blow 100 million on rezoning land in your own county and build the bloody port there.

Maskhadov

You will get compo i imagine and you can always relocate !

meditraitor

Morph&#233 wrote: »

I have lived in Balbriggan all my life and at this stage, I wish they would just nuke the town.

It has been DESTROYED!

All the high density battery hen housing schemes have jammed people together, road infrastructure is creaking under the weight of development vehicles and the town centre was complete sh!te to drive through until they put in parking metres.

I wanted to live in my home area when i got working, but now? Well i've been priced out of my village (yes village because thats what we were before all this crap cheap useless housing went in).

I initially felt so flipping angry at all the people whove moved here, why couldnt they fe*k off and live elsewhere?

And yet I now understand, it wasnt their fault. they too had been priced out of their respective areas, and now i must say goodbye to my boyhood home, now ive to go and move to someone elses village where ill unhappily live in a mid terrace house, with no alley, no front, no back garden, no parking space, no facilities to do anything except eat and sleep there and the locals will feel alienated towards ME. And every weekend ill join the mass exodus heading "home" to see friends and relatives.


Integration with the local community has been a slow and painful experience for a lot of the newcomers, but its improving.

I thought, how can these people whove moved to Balbriggan think its lovely when their very homes have destroyed its beauty. Time was I could walk along the coast and not meet a soul, now you have to jostle for walking space and to top it ALL, theyve decided to obliterate Cromwells harbour and the passage graves and the picture perfect scenery and wildlife in the name of progress.

Well heres the 2 fingers to all those city slickers who think this is great because its being moved out of the city. No way will it go ahead, my town (including new settlers) and a couple of other local villages feel the same so we will have a huge movement against the parties to prevent this eyesore going ahead.

Drogheda Port is in Louth, go blow 100 million on rezoning land in your own county and build the bloody port there.

Couldnt have said it better......

gobdaw

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Well heres the 2 fingers to all those city slickers who think this is great because its being moved out of the city.

Senator Tom Morrissey a city slicker? Get real, he has still the stirabout on his chin. This is the man who opposed car park at Castleknock rail station. A man who more clearly understands where the main chance lies, even to the extend of changing politicial parties to achieve it.

murphaph

Morph&#233 wrote: »

I have lived in Balbriggan all my life and at this stage, I wish they would just nuke the town.

It has been DESTROYED!

All the high density battery hen housing schemes have jammed people together, road infrastructure is creaking under the weight of development vehicles and the town centre was complete sh!te to drive through until they put in parking metres.

I wanted to live in my home area when i got working, but now? Well i've been priced out of my village (yes village because thats what we were before all this crap cheap useless housing went in).

I initially felt so flipping angry at all the people whove moved here, why couldnt they fe*k off and live elsewhere?

And yet I now understand, it wasnt their fault. they too had been priced out of their respective areas, and now i must say goodbye to my boyhood home, now ive to go and move to someone elses village where ill unhappily live in a mid terrace house, with no alley, no front, no back garden, no parking space, no facilities to do anything except eat and sleep there and the locals will feel alienated towards ME. And every weekend ill join the mass exodus heading "home" to see friends and relatives.


Integration with the local community has been a slow and painful experience for a lot of the newcomers, but its improving.

I thought, how can these people whove moved to Balbriggan think its lovely when their very homes have destroyed its beauty. Time was I could walk along the coast and not meet a soul, now you have to jostle for walking space and to top it ALL, theyve decided to obliterate Cromwells harbour and the passage graves and the picture perfect scenery and wildlife in the name of progress.

Well heres the 2 fingers to all those city slickers who think this is great because its being moved out of the city. No way will it go ahead, my town (including new settlers) and a couple of other local villages feel the same so we will have a huge movement against the parties to prevent this eyesore going ahead.

Drogheda Port is in Louth, go blow 100 million on rezoning land in your own county and build the bloody port there.

The stuff in bold (what you long for) is what has you priced out of Balbriggan! You simply cannot use land as inefficiently as you would like and then expect property prices to remain reasonable as all the land is used up. It's simple economics. We must make the most of our land by building no more silly semi-d's and go with high quality 2/3/4 bed apartments with the same (or larger) floor area as a wasteful semi but with communal green spaces and underground car parking where really necessary (but ideally located near quality public transport). People equate a big garden and a driveway with quality of life, this is a mistake as it often directly leads to the long sh!tty commutes people endure for the 'priviledge'. If Balbriggan had more apartments and fewer semis, you might be able to afford one in a nice central location.

Morpheus

Senator Tom Morrisey? I named no-one in my earlier city slicker post, ive no idea what your harpnig on about.

Secondly, it shouldnt BE a priviledge, a better qaulity of life is in my opinion to be found with the peace and tranquillity provided by having ones own garden to relax in, for your youngest to grow up in safely, I want to provide for them that which was provided to me.

I DIDNT grow up in an apartment, i DIDNT have to worry about a lack of privacy which is provided by apartments. I have at one time lived in an apartment and i wouldnt ever ever do it again, let me repeat that, EVER, but thats neither here nor there, its a personal opinion.

The main issue is not the type of accomodation anyway, I don't think that the town has been planned properly and it has become an eyesore. A veritable excrement load of houses and apartments have been literally grown out of the ground to accomodate people who have nothing to move here for, there is NOTHING to do in the town, ok there are things to do, but not enough things to satisfy the size of community. The town has so many dwellings but so few facilities for these people and i'm of the opinion that the new port which will involve the levelling of quite a huge ammount of landscape and history will do NOTHING to help the current situation.

Sorry about the caps but im quite angry. The current PD party has its head up its own a$$ if they think this is a step forward.

Something is going on here, for instance, conspiracies about who has what in whos pockets with the different port authorities and local councils regarding granting of permissions, abound around town at the minute.

Personally I think the idea of actual, proper community and national infrastructure planning, is as far removed from the current government authorities, as humans are from sponges.

Bluetonic

murphaph wrote:

If Balbriggan had more apartments and fewer semis, you might be able to afford one in a nice central location.

Balbriggan has many newly built apartments which remain unsold for months - people don't want them, they ones that are sold are not owner occupied. Also I'm not sure where your rant is coming from but the number of 'semis' built in the area in the last five years is very few.

Morpheus

number of 'semis' built in the area in the last five years is very few.

Exactly, there are row upon row of terraced houses, most average about 990 - 1100 Sq Ft (3bed).

also I now know who senator morrisey is and frankly I dont care what he did for someones car park the fact is that he wants to turn the coast around my town into a bloody international port, and he neednt tell us that theyll do everything they can to ensure the local communities dont suffer too much, because they WILL suffer, the traffic (which is already mental) is going to get worse.

murphaph

Bluetonic wrote:

Balbriggan has many newly built apartments which remain unsold for months - people don't want them, they ones that are sold are not owner occupied. Also I'm not sure where your rant is coming from but the number of 'semis' built in the area in the last five years is very few.

I wasn't ranting blue. Just making a sensible point; use all the land up in a low density manner and as zoned land runs out, it will skyrocket in price (which will be passed on to the purchaser). My point is simple-all future buildng should be medium/high density like most continental European cities (and surrounding towns).

Semis/terraces, same deal-it's low density sprawl that can only be tackled by building up to 4/5/6 stories and SHARING communal greenspace with our COMMUNITY. How many people living in terraces/duplexes/semis actually know that many people in their street? Apartments can breed better communities than these other modes due to the communal nature of facilities (in large buildings in other cities, communal laundry facilities exist in the basement and you'd be amazed how you get to know your neighbours just washing your smalls).

By the way, Balbriggan is not special-I'm in Blanchardstown, one of the two other so-called towns as designated by Fingal Co Co for clustered development (the other is Swords). FCC does not (practically) allow one-off housing anymore or any of that dross and wants to develop the bulk of future housing along rail (both present and future) corridors. This makes a lot of sense.

Mistakes, big ones, have been made in the past, but hopefully Fingal has seen the back of low density rubbish in as many places as possible. To be honest, I don't see the diferrence between Balbriggan being zoned for port use and most of D15 being zoned industrial. We need industrial zones for our county to prosper and why should Balbriggan be exempt? Maybe more facilities and amenities would also be forthcoming in the event of enhanced industrial development.

Sometimes stuff we don't really like has to be located near us. The number of apartments that have gone up since I moved here (about 10 years ago) is staggering, but people have to live somewhere. I also grew up in a small County Dublin village (near the Kildare border) which has also been designated by SDCC for massive development. It's just a fact of life.

Maskhadov

I totally agree with murphaph's analysis of why house prices are riduclous in Balbriggan. Its all the semi d's and crap use of space. There should be a minimum height level of 4 floors and maximum of 6. That would do wonders for availability of accomodation... Having gardens out your back is a sham

Bluetonic

Maskhadov wrote:

I totally agree with murphaph's analysis of why house prices are riduclous in Balbriggan. Its all the semi d's and crap use of space. There should be a minimum height level of 4 floors and maximum of 6.

Valid point I suppose. A certain level of high quality would have to be maintained though. Some of the 4 story development in Balbriggan in particular look like they've been deisgned by kids with crayons and build using pipe cleaners.

paulm17781

They need to build larger apartments. I live alone in a two bed and I have enough room for me. I used to share with someone and we were fine but a little cramped. There is no way you could raise a family in my place. Until developers start making decent sized apartments we are going to be stuck with the never ending sprawl. I would rather commute from outside Dublin and have a house to raise my family in then live in a shoebox in Dublin. In an ideal world I would have a decent sized aparment in Dublin, sadly they don't build them.

murphaph

paulm17781 wrote:

They need to build larger apartments. I live alone in a two bed and I have enough room for me. I used to share with someone and we were fine but a little cramped. There is no way you could raise a family in my place. Until developers start making decent sized apartments we are going to be stuck with the never ending sprawl. I would rather commute from outside Dublin and have a house to raise my family in then live in a shoebox in Dublin. In an ideal world I would have a decent sized aparment in Dublin, sadly they don't build them.

You're right of course, distinct shortage of large apartments in the city but a bit outside the city (here in D15) there are large apartments and cool 4 storey houses (tall and thin to save space!) available. They are limited but they are available in Ongar, where there are 1, 2 3 and 4 bed apts., the idea being that you don't have to move out of the area just because you start/grow your family. This is the way to do it. I assume Adamstown will be the antithesis of this type of development. It ought to be.

Maskhadov

Family sized apartments in Germany are class.. we need that kind of size here. apartments and medium density is the only answer to this fine mess this country is in.

paulm17781

murphaph wrote:

You're right of course, distinct shortage of large apartments in the city but a bit outside the city (here in D15) there are large apartments and cool 4 storey houses (tall and thin to save space!) available. They are limited but they are available in Ongar, where there are 1, 2 3 and 4 bed apts., the idea being that you don't have to move out of the area just because you start/grow your family. This is the way to do it. I assume Adamstown will be the antithesis of this type of development. It ought to be.

I didn't realise they were starting to do it right. I remember seeing 5 bedroom apartments in London. That kind of thing is what is needed here.

murphaph

Hopefully, as Dublin's inner suburbs are knocked and rebuilt to higher densities, that a generation of people who have bought into apartment living will be coming on stream and they will be ok with bringing kids up in suitably large apartments. It must be said however, that in general we 'require' far more space as irish people than say, the germans. They will bring kids up in very small apartments and so long as proper communal facilities are provided, the kids don'tseem too unbalanced and then when they grow up they don't expect a huge amount of space either. I don't think we'll ever get to the point whereby we are happy in one room (that's for sleeping and living and eating in) apartments (common in Germany).

Maskhadov

busy with the crayons. This is what they should do with the port. The grey is infil. Nice clean tidy and simple.

Irish and Proud

Maskhadov wrote:

busy with the crayons. This is what they should do with the port. The grey is infil. Nice clean tidy and simple.

...and destroy Clontarf Strand and half of Sandymount!

Victor

So how about actual quayside space and drainage for the toalk and things like that?

Is your plan perhaps superficial - an exercise in crayonism?

Maskhadov

àttached is an updated crayon image.

The Tolka is diverted into the north canal.

Sea protection wall may need to be built around Dublin Bay like the one near the strand row.

That beach would probably need a sea dredger to keep the beach clean and enough sand there.

The rest of the space is perfect for development.

Vorsprung

Like most things you post on Boards Maskhadov, the only place it will exist is in your head.

Maskhadov

its about right bigjim. It would clean up the whole port area and make the bay look respectable.

Do-more

Article in today's Sunday Business Post - "Redevelopment of Dublin Port to get council backing".