Home Cinema system

pastor · 14-12-2005 2:16pm #1

Hi guys

I will be investing in a new home cinema system in the New Year. I am looking at either a Philips or a Pioneer based system.

After some research I have narrowed the field down to the following:

Philips system

42PF9830 LCD TV
DFR9000 Amp
DVP9000S DVD
DVDR9000H DVD/HDD Reorder
WACS700 x2 wireless music system
WAC700 wireless music hub
SBCRU1000 colour remote
Mordant Short Genie 7.1 speaker system

I would be interested in any comments on the various components especially if you have any experience with them

Thanks

Paul

branners69 · 14-12-2005 4:00pm

Hi Pastor,

I dont have move input to add to your potential gear but I had a Philips setup previously and am moving to Pioneer. My planned setup to be purchased in the New Year is:

Plasma - Pioneer PDP-436XDE

DVD - Pioneer DV-989AVi-S

AV Reveiver - Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S

Speakers I am open to the following:

Pioneer S-V70-III

Mission M-Cube

I dont know about you but my problem is getting to see this stuff in action. I was half thinking about going up north to check it out, but then again any of the mags I have been reading rave about all the devices!!

Are you planning on buying online??

Cheers

Branners

pastor · 14-12-2005 5:00pm

branners69 wrote:

Hi Pastor,

I dont have move input to add to your potential gear but I had a Philips setup previously and am moving to Pioneer. My planned setup to be purchased in the New Year is:

Plasma - Pioneer PDP-436XDE

DVD - Pioneer DV-989AVi-S

AV Reveiver - Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S

Speakers I am open to the following:

Pioneer S-V70-III

Mission M-Cube

I dont know about you but my problem is getting to see this stuff in action. I was half thinking about going up north to check it out, but then again any of the mags I have been reading rave about all the devices!!

Are you planning on buying online??

Cheers

Branners

Hi Branners

I forgot to put my list of Pioneer stuff my list would include:

Pioneer PDP-506XDE TV
Pioneer DV-989AVi-S DVD
Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S AMP
DVR-630H-S DVD/HDD Recorder

I would not be buying online I want the kit professionally installed, TV mounted on the wall, cables installed in wall etc etc. The company that I will hopefully be using will demo the kit to me. I have researched this gear extensivly.

I am going towards the Pioneer option but there are some advantages to the Philips selection.

Please keep me informed as to how you are getting on. Perhaps who ever gets their kit installed first can demo it!

Thanks for your reply.

Paul

Idleater · 14-12-2005 9:52pm

pastor wrote:

DFR9000 Amp
:
:
Mordant Short Genie 7.1 speaker system

The only thing is that you have chosen 7.1 speakers with a 6.1 amp. I possibly would upgrade the front left and right to some large speakers if you were going to be listening to a lot of stereo music on the system. The front speakers are also the ones that contain most of the sound from Movies too. The surrounds are really only for a atmospheric sound effects.

Another amp to look at is the Yamaha RX-V2600. Slightly more powerful but it has a lot more connections for digital and analogue audio and video (to be honest it only has one extra component HD input).

The Pioneer amp also does not have a built in upScaler where the Philips does which is possibly a nice feature to have depending on the quality of the scaler in the screen.

L.

branners69 · 15-12-2005 11:27am

pastor wrote:

Hi Branners

I forgot to put my list of Pioneer stuff my list would include:

Pioneer PDP-506XDE TV
Pioneer DV-989AVi-S DVD
Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S AMP
DVR-630H-S DVD/HDD Recorder

I would not be buying online I want the kit professionally installed, TV mounted on the wall, cables installed in wall etc etc. The company that I will hopefully be using will demo the kit to me. I have researched this gear extensivly.

I am going towards the Pioneer option but there are some advantages to the Philips selection.

Please keep me informed as to how you are getting on. Perhaps who ever gets their kit installed first can demo it!

Thanks for your reply.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I'm glad to see we are both agreed on most of the pioneer kit. I'm gettin Sky+ in initially so I'll probs add the DVR-630H-S DVD/HDD Recorder at a later stage if I need it!!

Can I ask who you plan on getting to install it for you?? I didnt realise there was any one who would do that, I had planned on cashing in a few favours with mates of mine!!

I'm moving into a new house in mid-January so I'll be purchasing after xmas so as to have the kit ready to install staight away in the new place. I'm gonna leave the tv til last cos I wanna see if 43" is enough or if 50" would be better. According to the mags a 50" would be too big for the size of the room!!

Anyway keep in touch and I'd have no problems demo'ing it. I dont know about you but I have chopped and changed my mind constantly since I started the process!! Its such a choice out there, and as nereid said the Yamaha kit seems to get outstanding reviews as well, but I've decided to stick with my Pioneer!!

I just remebered to ask you something, do you have any idea what Wall Mount Bracket your goin to use?? Pioneer do this one, but I aint too sure if it tilts or if the plasma would be flat against the wall. I reckon I want one which will tilt a bit, have you given this much thought??

Cheers

Branners

pastor · 16-12-2005 12:24pm

branners69 wrote:

Hi Paul,

I'm glad to see we are both agreed on most of the pioneer kit. I'm gettin Sky+ in initially so I'll probs add the DVR-630H-S DVD/HDD Recorder at a later stage if I need it!!

Can I ask who you plan on getting to install it for you?? I didnt realise there was any one who would do that, I had planned on cashing in a few favours with mates of mine!!

I'm moving into a new house in mid-January so I'll be purchasing after xmas so as to have the kit ready to install staight away in the new place. I'm gonna leave the tv til last cos I wanna see if 43" is enough or if 50" would be better. According to the mags a 50" would be too big for the size of the room!!

Anyway keep in touch and I'd have no problems demo'ing it. I dont know about you but I have chopped and changed my mind constantly since I started the process!! Its such a choice out there, and as nereid said the Yamaha kit seems to get outstanding reviews as well, but I've decided to stick with my Pioneer!!

I just remebered to ask you something, do you have any idea what Wall Mount Bracket your goin to use?? Pioneer do this one, but I aint too sure if it tilts or if the plasma would be flat against the wall. I reckon I want one which will tilt a bit, have you given this much thought??

Cheers

Branners

Hi Branners

There are a number of companies that provide a professional install, I have had a comprehensive and excellent quote from Adam at Cinemaworks (I was hoping to have this in for November but the proceeds from a house sale have not come through yet). The advantage for me is that this will include full room acoustics analysis and proper callibration of everthing. It also includes lifetime support which is a plus. I do not possess the skills to put cables through walls etc

I have quite a large sitting room so I am hoping that the 50" version of the TV will be okay. Cinemaworks will come and do a site survey and confirm everything. The service they are offering is very comprehensive (I dont work for them!). I have not given any thought to the wall bracket as it would be included in the install and is the Pioneer one. The Philips TV if I go down that route comes with the required wall bracket.

The choice between the TV's come down to some of the extra features on the Philips such as the PC link (ethernet port), USB, ambilight 2 and it looks gorgous! I can also have most of the Philips stuff demoed at the Philips store on Dame St. I like the Philips dvd/hdd recorder as it can record in 5.1 and comes with a 400gb hdd which is great and is DL compatable. Neither of the DVD players supports DIVX which is a pain in the neck. I use DIVX quite a lot. That is another advantage to the Philips TV it supports the playing of DIVX files via the USB opr ethernet port.

I have chopped and changed my mind on a number of occasions and may change again!! I hate buying the mags as someting new will jump,out at me and scream buy me!!!

I will keep in touch and cannot wait to get all this stuff bought and installed and be in home cinema heaven!

Paul

branners69 · 16-12-2005 2:15pm

Hi Pastor,

I never really played with the idea of gettin it professionally installed until you mentioned it but it would deffo take the hassle out of it!! Is there any chance you could pm me a rough price as to what the pioneer kit is setting you back?? Would really appreciate it!!

Funnily enough I plan on getting the 32" Philips PF9830 for the bedroom, I didnt realise they did a 42" I thought they only went as big as 37". I t must be some price for a 42", as the 37" was pricey, well too pricey for a bedroom tv!!

I plan on either building or buying a Media pc down the road, like this one from Komplett. This will look after my divx and web access needs.

Like you I cant wait to get it all installed, its a real pity I wont have it before xmas!! I cant wait to be lying back in the aul laziboy, to take a beer from the built in cooler and to be blown away by the new kit!!

Any ideas what your first flick is goin to be?? I must put some thought into that!!

Talk to you soon,

Branners

Idleater · 16-12-2005 2:20pm

pastor wrote:

The choice between the TV's come down to some of the extra features on the Philips such as the PC link (ethernet port), USB, ambilight 2 and it looks gorgous!

That is another advantage to the Philips TV it supports the playing of DIVX files via the USB opr ethernet port.

The Philips TV's are fantastic looking all right.I had no idea about playing files via ethernet/usb.

One thing though - when playing DivX does it play the sound through the TV speakers? or does it get routed out of the SP-DIF?

L.

pastor · 19-12-2005 8:41am

nereid wrote:

The Philips TV's are fantastic looking all right.I had no idea about playing files via ethernet/usb.

One thing though - when playing DivX does it play the sound through the TV speakers? or does it get routed out of the SP-DIF?

L.

Hi nerid

Not sure on that from reading the manual I think that it will be routed out of the SP-DIF. Thanks for the info on the amp in your ealier post.

Thanks

Paul

pastor · 19-12-2005 9:01am

branners69 wrote:

Hi Pastor,

I never really played with the idea of gettin it professionally installed until you mentioned it but it would deffo take the hassle out of it!! Is there any chance you could pm me a rough price as to what the pioneer kit is setting you back?? Would really appreciate it!!

Funnily enough I plan on getting the 32" Philips PF9830 for the bedroom, I didnt realise they did a 42" I thought they only went as big as 37". I t must be some price for a 42", as the 37" was pricey, well too pricey for a bedroom tv!!

I plan on either building or buying a Media pc down the road, like this one from Komplett. This will look after my divx and web access needs.

Like you I cant wait to get it all installed, its a real pity I wont have it before xmas!! I cant wait to be lying back in the aul laziboy, to take a beer from the built in cooler and to be blown away by the new kit!!

Any ideas what your first flick is goin to be?? I must put some thought into that!!

Talk to you soon,

Branners

Hi Branners

I have installed a number of home cinema setups in my time including the building of MCE PC's and their integration. The difference that proper callibration and placement of speakers makes is huge. The Pioneer amp scores here as it has an excellent auomatic setup via microphone. Tweaking your TV also pays off (you can purchase DVD disks that help you do this, I have a number in my collection). If you are going to pay serious amounts of money for your kit I think that it is worth getting professionally installed and setup to its best. My last home installation took a number of weeks and I was forever playing with the settings drives the wife mad (always a plus!!) I want to avoid the hassle and let a professional do it for me.

The Media PC you linked to looks like a nice piece of kit, could you not build it yourself cheaper? I like MCE2005 a lot. I have been using it since the 2004 version and spending hours hacking an epg together. Probably spent more time working on the epg then in recording programmes. Sky+ is just so much easier (pity that Sky are a horrible company to deal with). The pace sky+ box are not compatable with the IR blasters supplied with MCE 2005. I believe that the Amstrad box is but is not supplied in the Republic. If I can help in any way with your pc please give me a shout.

I have not given any thought to what movie I want to run first after the kit is installed. I do plan to have some themed night (watch the whole lot with beer and some friends) e.g. LOTR night, Ginger Snaps night, Star Wars etc. What movie will you watch? I must think about this as I will want to show the system off.

I will pm you some details of the costs that were quoted to me.

Paul

branners69 · 19-12-2005 1:40pm

Hi Pastor

I havent had much dealings with MCE PC's but I have built all my own pcs over the past 8 years so it wont be too much of a problem hopefully!! If I get stuck I'll give ya a shout thanx. I got some great info off avforums about sorting out the speakers and tweaking the tv!! What DVD would you recommend from your collection??

I was in Ripoff Normans over the weekend and had the boss with me, she reckons the 43" is too small and we should get the 50", amazing when I'm paying how size matters!! Then I explained the room could be too small, suppose it could be worse if she was hassling me about spending so much on the kit!!

I was toying about getting one of these aswell, I reckon I'd have some fun playing with it for a while!!

I dont know if the above would be over kill cos I'll deffo be getting Sky+, I agree about Sky as a company but Sky+ is an amazing piece of equipment. I even have my 250gb waiting to be installed!!

My first scene is going to be the beach landing from Saving Private Ryan, wont watch it all just the first 20 minutes. I reckon it'll be LOTR's, I want something to push the tv so I want dark scene's aswell as explosive ones so LOTR will do nicely, the sound should be tested to the max too, god help the neighbours!!

Am looking forward to the pm, thanx..

Cheers

Ian

pastor · 20-12-2005 1:55pm

branners69 wrote:

Hi Pastor

I havent had much dealings with MCE PC's but I have built all my own pcs over the past 8 years so it wont be too much of a problem hopefully!! If I get stuck I'll give ya a shout thanx. I got some great info off avforums about sorting out the speakers and tweaking the tv!! What DVD would you recommend from your collection??

I was in Ripoff Normans over the weekend and had the boss with me, she reckons the 43" is too small and we should get the 50", amazing when I'm paying how size matters!! Then I explained the room could be too small, suppose it could be worse if she was hassling me about spending so much on the kit!!

I was toying about getting one of these aswell, I reckon I'd have some fun playing with it for a while!!

I dont know if the above would be over kill cos I'll deffo be getting Sky+, I agree about Sky as a company but Sky+ is an amazing piece of equipment. I even have my 250gb waiting to be installed!!

My first scene is going to be the beach landing from Saving Private Ryan, wont watch it all just the first 20 minutes. I reckon it'll be LOTR's, I want something to push the tv so I want dark scene's aswell as explosive ones so LOTR will do nicely, the sound should be tested to the max too, god help the neighbours!!

Am looking forward to the pm, thanx..

Cheers

Ian

I have a number of DVD's from Dolby and from the makers of DTS they include test scenes that put your speakers and tv to the test. They also contain scenes from movies that really test your system. I also have the official Pioneer HD dvd for showing off the features of their plasmas, its amazing quality.

My wife is not too bothered as long as there are no cables showing. She is well impressed with the 50" plasma as long as its in proportion she doesnt have a problem. We have a 32" plasma at the moment (which will make its way onto a wall in the bedroom) which she feels is too small. Thankfully she likes watching DVD's!

Good choice of scene for first DVD do you have the DTS version of Saving Private Ryan? Somebody has suggested House of the flying daggers as a good movie to show off your plasma.

Out of interest have you given any thought to the Pioneer DVR920 DVD/HDD recorder it has HDMI but lacks ilink for multi resolution audio? I am tempted with this as it would be a purly digital system thanks to the HDMI.

I am aso looking at the new Philips MCE PC http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?activeCategory=HOME_AUDIO_VIDEO_GR_GB_CONSUMER&fhquery=fh_secondid%3Dmcp9350i_05_gb_consumer%26amp%3Bfh_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_GB%2Fcategories%3Ccatalog_gb_consumer%2Fcategories%3Chome_audio_video_gr_gb_consumer%2Fcategories%3C%7Bmedia_centers_ca_gb_consumer%7D%26fh_view%3Ddetail%26fh_oneslice%3Dyes&clickEventData=fh_secondid%3Dmcp9350i_05_gb_consumer%26amp%3Bfh_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_GB%2Fcategories%3Ccatalog_gb_consumer%2Fcategories%3Chome_audio_video_gr_gb_consumer%2Fcategories%3C%7Bmedia_centers_ca_gb_consumer%7D%26fh_view%3Ddetail%26fh_oneslice%3Dyes&productId=MCP9350I_05_GB_CONSUMER&fredhopperpage=detail.jsp&language=en&country=GB&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=QGNLA5PFQXDOVJ0RMRCSHQNHKFSESI5P I cannot be arsed to build a new pc. It looks the business and would look great with the other parts of the system.

I have Sky+ at the moment keeps shutting itself off logged a call with Sky who told me it wasnt under warranty. Had to write a letter to their correspondence department to get it sorted, shoddy treatment indeed. I have upgraded the drive to 160gb.

Keep in touch.

Paul

branners69 · 21-12-2005 10:21am

Hi Pastor,

where can you come accross such DVD's?? I saw some people on avforums supplying them, they sound like a very valuable item to have if you want to get the most from your system.

I was looking at getting one of these for the bedroom wall, but as usual maybe I am just going overboard!! Originally I wanted to go with Yamaha for everything in my new system but its very difficult to get a Yamaha plasma. The Philips media pc is nice alright, one reason why to go with Philips!! Its a pity Pioneer dont have one available.

Its great to have a wife that is easily pleased, I have the same problem with the cables but I dont want to see them either so I'll have no problems hiding them.

I have the DTS version of Saving Private Ryan, Never thought of House of the Flying Daggers, I'm sure you must have a decent collection of dvds to be shelling this much out on a system!! My last count I was at 475'ish!! I cant wait to try Sin City on it, cos its such a dark film. Or watch Family Guy or The Simpsons!!

I had a look at the DVR930 which is probs the newer model but I thought it was trying to do too much, as in play dvds, and record them aswell. I sooner have one item do each and what is more important to me is the DVD playing. So thats why I am looking at the DV989 and the DVR630. For example the DVR930 as you say lacks iLink and it cant handle dual layer discs when its recording but the DVR630 can, and the DVR630 doesnt have HDMI or iLink but the DV989 does!! So to get all that I want I need to buy seperates til they come up with a player which can handle dual layer and has HDMI. No doubt it will be out a week after I buy seperates!! Do you think the DVR930 is for you??

Sky + can be very temperamental, and especially recently since the new software updates! People from boards have complained and received 2 months at half price, not great but better then nothing!!

One other thing I was looking into was this, I want to be able to get the benefits of the system at any time night or day cos I am a real night owl. So I was wondering if they might come in handy??

Cheers for the replies, its nice to get someone elses opinions who has an interest in Home Cinema equipment.

Cheers

Branners

pastor · 21-12-2005 5:14pm

branners69 wrote:

Hi Pastor,

where can you come accross such DVD's?? I saw some people on avforums supplying them, they sound like a very valuable item to have if you want to get the most from your system.

I was looking at getting one of these for the bedroom wall, but as usual maybe I am just going overboard!! Originally I wanted to go with Yamaha for everything in my new system but its very difficult to get a Yamaha plasma. The Philips media pc is nice alright, one reason why to go with Philips!! Its a pity Pioneer dont have one available.

Its great to have a wife that is easily pleased, I have the same problem with the cables but I dont want to see them either so I'll have no problems hiding them.

I have the DTS version of Saving Private Ryan, Never thought of House of the Flying Daggers, I'm sure you must have a decent collection of dvds to be shelling this much out on a system!! My last count I was at 475'ish!! I cant wait to try Sin City on it, cos its such a dark film. Or watch Family Guy or The Simpsons!!

I had a look at the DVR930 which is probs the newer model but I thought it was trying to do too much, as in play dvds, and record them aswell. I sooner have one item do each and what is more important to me is the DVD playing. So thats why I am looking at the DV989 and the DVR630. For example the DVR930 as you say lacks iLink and it cant handle dual layer discs when its recording but the DVR630 can, and the DVR630 doesnt have HDMI or iLink but the DV989 does!! So to get all that I want I need to buy seperates til they come up with a player which can handle dual layer and has HDMI. No doubt it will be out a week after I buy seperates!! Do you think the DVR930 is for you??

Sky + can be very temperamental, and especially recently since the new software updates! People from boards have complained and received 2 months at half price, not great but better then nothing!!

One other thing I was looking into was this, I want to be able to get the benefits of the system at any time night or day cos I am a real night owl. So I was wondering if they might come in handy??

Cheers for the replies, its nice to get someone elses opinions who has an interest in Home Cinema equipment.

Cheers

Branners

I have pmed you in relation to the dvd's. I have a friend in the UK who has the Yamaha and swears by it. I think it would be great choice I am tempted myself would save having to install 5 speakers. Yamaha have released a slim downed version for £599.99 which might do the trick. Yamaha make some lovely kit but the lack of a tv is a problem.

I like the idea of the Pioneer headphones how much would they set you back? I had a trust set that I bought for £20.00 and they were great. Of course with all cheap items hey broke after a while with use. Sounded great and did a good job of the surround sound. Could be tempted again!

Your point on the DVR930 was very well made and has given me food for thought. Its €1500.00 or so here I would rather buy the seperates as you mentioned. The Philips DVD recorder that I mentioned has a 400gb hdd, guide+, hdmi, records in 5.1 and is DL compatable and looks really nice. I really have to make my mind up about the kit I want to buy.

Sky+ recent update has caused me too many problems yet my crashing problem has been ongoing for 3-4 months it goes away when I do a hdd reorganisation for a few days and then comes back. Are you going with Sky HD when its released? I am, I cannot wait to see how much Sky will charge for the box (pluck any old figure from the sky!)

As to my DVD collection I do have quite alot but have never bothered to count them. I have been buying lots of box sets recently. Last one being Alias S1 for €19.99 a bargain.

Yes, its great sharing ideas etc and your replies have been most helpful, many thanks.

Paul

branners69 · 09-01-2006 10:33am

Hi Pastor,

Have you gotten any further with your system??

I am about to start buying, I am going with buying online.. the only thing putting me off at the moment is the warranty entitlements if I purchase from Europe. I want to confirm that Pioneer in Ireland can do something for me so as I dont have to send it back to the UK or Germany if something goes wrong!!

The Pioneer headphones are around the €300 mark if memory serves me!! They look the bizz tho, apparently Philips do a nice set aswell.

I saw the Yamaha speaker ( the large one ) in Harvey Normans over the weekend, its huge!! With a huge price tag €1500!!

I'll deffo go with Sky HD when it finally arrives, just hope they put a huge harddrive into it cos I'd say it'll take up huge amounts of space when you are saving programmes to it!!

My most recent boxset addition was Curb Your Enthusiasm Season 3!! I cant believe how many boxsets are out there these days, I even saw that Bosco is out on DVD - whats the world coming to!!

Talk to you soon,

Branners

PS I didnt receive any pm about the DVD's??

pastor · 09-01-2006 12:45pm

I have made a number of decisions in regards to the system that I will be going for.

I have opted for the following:

Pioneer PDP-506XDE TV
Pioneer DV-989AVi-S DVD
DVR-630H-S DVD/HDD Recorder
WACS700 x2 wireless music system
WAC700 wireless music hub
SBCRU1000 colour remote
Mordant Short Genie 7.1 speaker system

I was set on the Pioneer VSX-AX4AVi-S AMP but the review in this months Home Cinema Choice mag has put me off. I will need to look further into this. I have decided not to go for the Philips options as most of the kit that I wanted is not currently available in the UK or Ireland with no date for availability.

I am under the impression that Pioneer will honour the waranty as it was purchased in the UK (I may be misguided on this, please let me know). Which companies are you buying from? Have you checked out Richer Sounds in Belfast?

I will pm you again in relation to the test disks.

Please keep me informed as to your progress. I will not be able to get mine for another couple of months.

Thanks

Paul

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 1:00pm

What guys reckon of Denons new AV amp... its got a great number of HDMI connections and 1080p support.... proper future proof ??

-A

branners69 · 09-01-2006 1:50pm

I have pretty much decided myself, the only thing I have to confirm is the 43" or 50" and I can only do this once I get into the house which will be next week touch wood!!

I have dropped the DVR-630H cos I am gonna build a Media PC, cos I'll need something to keep me busy once I get all the kit installed!!

I was looking at the WACS700 and was impressed, a great resource is:

http://www.streamiumcafe.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=WACS700

Which I'm sure you've seen!!

I love that remote, I have one of the original prontos and find it handy, especially the macro function so you can walk in a press "movies" and everything turns on that I need to watch a flick!!

I read the review in Home Cinema Choice of the VSX-AX4AVi-S but I am sick of changing my mind!! And other mags have given it great ( not excellent!!) reviews. And the ipod link up could be handy for me, if I ever use it. I know because I am matching my system with a particular manufacturer that I am not getting the best overall performance. All the mags rave about the Yamaha receivers but I will hopefully be happier with my matching kit!!

I hope Pioneer will honour the warranty, I will probs just take the chance!! I am planning to get quotes from:

www.tvandvideodirect.com
www.technikdirekt.de
www.katronics.de

I might drop Richer Sounds an email aswell, cant do any harm!!

I'll let you know how things progress!!

Cheers

Branners

branners69 · 09-01-2006 1:51pm

aloleary wrote:

What guys reckon of Denons new AV amp... its got a great number of HDMI connections and 1080p support.... proper future proof ??

-A

Denon get some great reviews, like everything it depends what mag you read!!

Idleater · 09-01-2006 2:57pm

aloleary wrote:

What guys reckon of Denons new AV amp... its got a great number of HDMI connections and 1080p support.... proper future proof ??

-A

Which model are you talking about? The AVR 4306 or 4806?
If you are talking about the 4806 I think that this will be quite expensive when it is released (later this year?) - I would hazard a guess at the €3000 end of the market.

It seems to be the first of the upscaling Denons but I don't know if it is worth €1500 just to have 1080p "switching & repeater functions" (I read 'passthrough').

I see in the specifications that the Scaler only supports 480p / 576p / 720p / 1080i.

L.

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 3:23pm

Im not made of money ... so its the 4306 following:

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=263

This is going to be the centre of my system...

Am going to pair this with a set of Soundblaster 7.1 THX certifiied speakers

Again Home cinema on a reasonable budget I guess... expensive but not stupid

I will pair this up with the first 32" - 42" LCD/Plasma that I can get my hands on for 2k or less

And am building a HTPC for myself to cover DVD/HDRecorder/TiVo functionality etc...

Really like the IP/Network features and 1080p features of the Denon

-A

pH · 09-01-2006 4:05pm

The 4306 is going to cost about €2,000.

here's a link to it at 1897 on a german discount site.
http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/audio/home-cinema/receiver/828945/-/Article.html?focuslayout=full5&focuslayout=full5

Pairing this amp with soundblaster 7.1 speakers could only be described as ... well novel!

I'm seriously considering the 4306 myself, but will probably wait a little bit.

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 4:21pm

Re speakers yeah they were the best value (and sounding at the price) THX 7.1 speakers I could find...

You got any other speaker options (only 7.1 and THX please)

-Alan

pH · 09-01-2006 4:51pm

I kid you not - most would spend more on the speakers than on the amp.

I'm not sure that you could even drive those speakers with that amp! Most of these PC/Multimedia systems have a built in amp - simple check if it has a volume control then it has an amp already!

Also THX is confusing you, first ask yourself why you want THX!

A proper set of THX ultra 7.1 Home cinema speakers cannot be compared to a set of THX multimedia speakers, they're not even similar. There are a number of completely different THX certifications, and the multimedia one is not the same as the real Home cinema standard.

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 5:09pm

True but can you give me some 7.1 THX certified speakers so I can look at them ? Am interested in options !!

How much you reckon a 7.1 THX Ultra Speaker setup typcially costs today..

Thanks

Again the AV receiver is more for its 1080p hdtv switching capability and IP network integration... pairing it with rather average speakers for now (or prob what you would call **** speakers ;-)

But this AMP has some nice unique features at a non-rediculous price that gives some nice future proofing...

-A

pH · 09-01-2006 5:28pm

I still think you misunderstand -

THX Select/Ultra
This is a very high end testing and approval process that certifies equipment as THX. It really applies to custom Home cinema rooms, not to plonking some speakers at the side of the TV. Yes you could go out and buy THX certified speakers but what would be the point?

THX Multimedia
This is more a cash-in on the THX brand for speaker systems that are designed to sit alongside a PC monitor and be driven by a PC. It is a completely different test/product.

What you are saying is I want a car and I want it to be a Rolls Royce, but I can't afford one. So because I want the name "RR" I'll buy a Dinky model instead - that has the RR badge on it doesn't it? Well yes it does, but you can't drive it anywhere - its effectively usesless, it's a completely different thing.

My advice - buy a Ford!!!!

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 5:44pm

No no no...

I am buying the Denon cause it has all the features I want... it has THX ultra output ... great

BUT I CANNOT AFFORD THX ULTRA SPEAKERS RIGHT NOW...

So im gonna get a cheap << set for now.... The BEST CHEAP set I have found is those soundblaster giga works ones....
http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=113&product=9306

If you have better cheaper ones I can go for please let me know...

Also for proper THX Ultra 7.1 speakers I really would like some makes and models to look at....

Just asking for help here...

I am a comp engineer and i do a lot of audio production so I do know what is what... I actually use a lot of high end audio / pro sound cards from my PC and more money goes there than in my home entertainment system

pH · 09-01-2006 6:09pm

You got any other speaker options (only 7.1 and THX please)

BUT I CANNOT AFFORD THX ULTRA SPEAKERS RIGHT NOW...

Fine so buy a cheap set of speakers.

What I don't understand is the obsession with having THX on them, THX multimedia certification is irrelevant for any speakers connected to an amp like a Denon.

There are lots of very nice Home Cinema speaker systems available. There are plenty of options for getting a good set by starting with 5.1 and adding the 2 rear centres later (6.1 and 7.1) , as the rear centres are a rarely if ever used.

So im gonna get a cheap << set for now.... The BEST CHEAP set I have found is those soundblaster giga works ones....

So how did you come to that opinion? Find me a link to just one person/website who would recomend that combination! Those speakers are designed to be connected to a PC sound card and have an amp built in. I'm saying forget about THX and buy a nice set of Home Cinema 5.1 speakers (the Ford option!)

Edited to add ..

If you follow the THX link I posted earlier then for each category it gives you a complete list of all products passing THX certification in each categoty.

Idleater · 09-01-2006 9:29pm

aloleary wrote:

Im not made of money ... so its the 4306 following:

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=263

This is going to be the centre of my system...

Am going to pair this with a set of Soundblaster 7.1 THX certifiied speakers

Again Home cinema on a reasonable budget I guess... expensive but not stupid

I will pair this up with the first 32" - 42" LCD/Plasma that I can get my hands on for 2k or less

And am building a HTPC for myself to cover DVD/HDRecorder/TiVo functionality etc...

Really like the IP/Network features and 1080p features of the Denon

-A

I cant find the spec on those speakers that mention the sensitivity or the Ohm rating but I would not have picked them out for use with a 130 - 170 watt per channel (depending on the ohm of the speakers) amp.

Like PH has been saying, THX is just a grade that was invented by My Lucas. I would read this article for more information on speaker matching.

If I were you, I would buy a simple 5 speaker set and add to it in time. Like buy a sub some point in the future and then an extra 1 or 2 speakers as you have the dosh.
A good reference guide is that you should be spending about half the cost of your amp on speakers, and that came from a time when people were talking about stereo speakers....

How many 7.1 titles do you own?

I am seriously considering getting rid of my sub because it is never used, the floorstanders are more than capable of delivering enough bass for my terraced house

I also see that the 4306 that you are looking at has the same upscaling that I thought the 4806 also had so I suppose you have yourself a bit more of a deal. However, it still has not got 1080p upscaling or upconversion. I see a 1080p DVD player is going to cost somewhat in the region of £1500.

I will pair this up with the first 32" - 42" LCD/Plasma that I can get my hands on for 2k or less

You do know also that there are not many tv's that support 1080p either?

L

Omnipresence · 09-01-2006 11:56pm

Yup but its all about future proofing....I am betting on a few things:

HDMI (so multiple ports essential)
1080p (most important)
7.1 (ok may not be round the corner but hey...)

The Denon upscales to 1080i but has HDMI connectors (HDCP) cap of 1080p this is the res I will have coming from my HTPC graphics card ...

Route that to TV .. nice

Current 1080p TVs are about 5K so as with everything that price will come down over time..

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315307&cks=PRL

I will take your advice about the speakers and have a look around at "building up" a good set...

Not like im gonna ever be able to spend 10k on a full Klipsch 7.1 THX Ultra set of speakers ... :rolleyes:

I just thought ... 7.1 capable THX certified AV Amp... why not pair it with some speakers that are 7.1 and THX certified (albeit a crap certification i admit)

My budget for speakers for Ver 1.0 of my system will remain at 500 until a later date when I can add something a bit more deserving of the amp

-Alan

pH · 10-01-2006 10:02am

Yup but its all about future proofing....I am betting on a few things:

The problem with futrure proofing and buying an amp now is what while they have the HDMI ports they do not have decoders for the new digital sound formats such as DD+ and the equivalent new DTS format.

These new formats are being used in the next generation of HD media (Blu-ray and HDDVD)

The players probably will have their own decoders but an amp bought today won't.

Idleater · 10-01-2006 10:15am

aloleary wrote:

The Denon upscales to 1080i but has HDMI connectors (HDCP) cap of 1080p this is the res I will have coming from my HTPC graphics card ...

My budget for speakers for Ver 1.0 of my system will remain at 500 until a later date when I can add something a bit more deserving of the amp

-Alan

Ok, now I think you are going in the right direction with your priorities. I agree that the amp, the centre of any system, is most important and the one that you have chosen is a pretty darn good one. BTW, that screen does not support 1080p just 1080i or 1152i according to the spec.

For speakers for my v1.0 setup that I bought about 4-5 years ago cost me IR£250 in the old Richer Sounds and that was for 2 floor standers, 2 bookshelf and a centre. They are still running so good today that I am considering at some stage buying two new bigger floorstanders to replace my fronts, moving the current fronts to the rears and using the bookshelves as surrounds. Hence you can see how a system can be built up over time.

I just had a quick look at richersounds.ie and built up a fairly good speaker system for < €450
TDL Studio 10 229.99
Heybrook HBC1 79.99
Gale Silver Monitors (Black) 89.99
Subtotal 399.97
Shipping 36.99
Total € 436.96

Even cheaper if you go for all around bookshelf speakers. You could have a look at the speaker packages there too. The Monitor Audio 45 Pack at €729 is pretty good

The amp that I am looking at getting is the Yamaha RX-V2600 which seems to be very similar to your Denon apart from the "ethernet connectivity" which while it seems interesting, I prefer to keep seperate.

Just as regards "future proofing", in the future you will actually be wanting to split your amp into seperate devices. An Audio processor, a Video processor and a seperate Amplifier(s) for driving the speakers. That is the way that high end companies like Rotel are going and it certainly seems to make sense from a clarity of signal/audiophile point of view.

Splitting the system into as many components as possible makes upgrading to the latest and greatest technology all the easier. However like you say, at the end of the day it all comes down to what you can afford when the time comes to bite the bullet and buy!

L

maco · 11-01-2006 12:05am

I just have the Denon 3806 and IMHO it was excellent for movies and music.

Got it from Creative Audio from UK. You need to visit them before they accept order from Ireland.

Idleater · 11-01-2006 9:52am

maco wrote:

I just have the Denon 3806 and IMHO it was excellent for movies and music.

Got it from Creative Audio from UK. You need to visit them before they accept order from Ireland.

Cool!
<snip>
Can I ask you what sort of picture quality you get when using the scaler? I mean, is there a difference between the quality of the picture on screen if you upscale a dvd for example to 720p/1080i using the amp compared to letting the screen upscale the pal signal directly?
</snip>

Sorry, I have just realised that you said 3806 and I got mixed up between that and the 4306 that aoleary was on about. The 3806 doesn't have the scaler that I was on about according to the specsheet, but I the second part of my query still stands:

Also, are you sending everything to the screen using HDMI?

I see from a different thread that you bought the M61 from komplett.ie. How did this work out for you? I am planning on going down that route myself but for a 26" screen but what is putting me off is what happens with the warranty etc and if anything goes wrong with the screen. Can you ease my fears on such matters?

L.

maco · 11-01-2006 8:41pm

I am very happy with my 3806, I have my denon 2910 connected via HDMI to play my DVD disc, It also have an analog connection to my Amp, used this to play my CD. Using pure direct to play my CD blew me away.

Yes, have my Samsung 40 from komplett.ie, so far no problem so far the very very happy, havent play around with my setting yet.

Bit worried also ordering online but you see we dont have a choice here and I cannot wait anymore. I think if something wrong with the tv you have to return it at your own cost. To tell you frankly if the difference is only 250 euro I would buy it from store here, if more than I will risk it buying online and hope for the best.

Home Cinema system

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