ATM Fraud

James Dub

I just seen on the news there about ATM fraud,i myself have fallen victim to this last weekend (outside Ireland) last Saturday night i made a withdrawal in the Hotel i was staying in it had a few ATM's,when i went to make the withdrawal it told me i had insufficient funds which i knew was impossible,i just thought it was a dodgy machine or something,anyway i checked my balance online a few minutes later and sure enough i was right i had plenty of funds in my account so i went to another ATM in the Hotel and withdrew money,this was done about 11.45pm or thereabouts.

Anyway yesterday evening i arrived in Dublin Airport and withdrew €40,went to work today and checked by balance and nearly passed out when i seen it,there was almost €800 gone,3 quick withdrawals done on the Sat nite and it seems shortly after midnight,i was stunned as you can imagine,i got onto my Bank the AIB and told them,they are to send me out a form to fill in and they cancelled my bank card and will issue me with another one,i just thought id warn people about this even in a bloody Hotel lobby it can happen not just ATM's in the street,anyway ive been reliably informed that i should get my money back but seen as it was outside Ireland it could take longer,has anyone else fallen victim to this despicable crime and if so were you waiting long for a refund,etc?

What a time as well for it to happen Xmas,im hoping the AIB will be good enough to give me a loan until such time i get my money back.

jezza

A.I.B are stupid.

James Dub

jezza wrote:

A.I.B are stupid.

Thanks for your intelligent reply

Mossy Monk

jezza wrote:

A.I.B are stupid.

wow, banks are rated by intelligence. what sort of IQ would the Ulster Bank have?

heres hoping they do give you a loan. horrible thing to happen and right before christmas too

Repli

It wouldn't even surprise me if it was hotel staff in on it, you know the people operating the skimming device/camera have to be in the range of something like 10-100m of the ATM, I must look like a weirdo trying to pull the slot off before I use ATMs in the city lol.. it's effective though !

seatleon2000

Whats the criteria for getting a refund I wonder .. how does the bank know you didn't take it out yourself?

James Dub

seatleon2000 wrote:

Whats the criteria for getting a refund I wonder .. how does the bank know you didn't take it out yourself?

I presume CCTV and other methods would be used,i have been reliably informed though by someone who's friend this happened to that a refund will be forthcoming although depending on the investigation this may take anything from 2 weeks to 3 months

cheekyass

i try to always hide my pin but putting my hand over the keypad while im puttin it in, is this effective in preventing whoever is doing this from accessing my account, does any one know?

Miguel_Sanchez

cheekyass wrote:

i try to always hide my pin but putting my hand over the keypad while im puttin it in, is this effective in preventing whoever is doing this from accessing my account, does any one know?

Now I could be wrong but I think that this is supposed to safeguard you. They skim the card but also need the pin to access your account. They can get this through a tiny camera installed somewhere near the top of the ATM. So if you cover your pin as you enter it you should be safe enough.

Or you could just do like me and never have any money in your account in the first place for them to steal!

But, like I said, I could be wrong about the covering the pin thing - anyone know if the skimmers have a way around this yet?

RuggieBear

something similar happened to me a little while back.....had over 800 euro taken from my accounts....Ulster Bank basically told me it was my problem and that the criminal must have known my pin thus i was liable. Bastards:(

tman

RuggieBear wrote:

something similar happened to me a little while back.....had over 800 euro taken from my accounts....Ulster Bank basically told me it was my problem and that the criminal must have known my pin thus i was liable. Bastards:(

1337 just isn't a secure pin these days man

mad m

Ouch Ruggiebear!

Anytime I'm taking money out I pull the bejaysus out of the front console before I type anything incase something pops off.I get some strange looks, but WTF I dont care!

RuggieBear

mad m wrote:

Ouch Ruggiebear!

Anytime I'm taking money out I pull the bejaysus out of the front console before I type anything.I get some strange looks, but WTF I dont care!

trust me i alway's do the same....

All the circumstances stink with regards to how they acquired my cards (broke into the house) and then some how knew my PIN too....i'm convinced that the PIN can be hacked/broken/abused and the banks just wash their hands with you

jessop1

I heard that they now have false keypads which sit on top of the real one and records your pin as you type it, so the thievin skangers dont even have to see you typin it in. best advice is to add the keypad to your list of atm components to reef before inserting your card

jimmycrackcorm

did you get on to the hotel - surely they would have cctv cameras.

Idioteque

another option is to do what I do and just use your laser card to withdraw money the majority of the time from shops/pubs etc and only use the ATM if you def won't be buying anything soon....

maireadrua

Yeah, was watching TV tonight, and there was a special report on these ATM fraud schemes.

Funnily enough, they filmed in UCD, at the AIB branch and in the SU shop under the library.

Seriously, the technology that is being used by these Eastern European groups is unbelieveable.
It showed the front being put on the ATM and then how indistinguishable it is from a normal facade. And they have a small device that scans your bankcard details...and don't get me started when they showed the pin-sized camera...

yeah, covering your hand on the keypad is considered one of the most effective ways to stop ATM card fraud.

RuggieBear

maireadrua wrote:

Yeah, was watching TV tonight, and there was a special report on these ATM fraud schemes.

Funnily enough, they filmed in UCD, at the AIB branch and in the SU shop under the library.

Seriously, the technology that is being used by these Easter European groups is unbelieveable.
.......d.

God damn those bloody Easter Bunnies....:D

maireadrua

RuggieBear wrote:

God damn those bloody Easter Bunnies....:D

Damn!

My editing skills weren't too quick...:D

Hail 2 Da Chimp

How exactly did they get your bank details?
looking over you shoulder at pin?
Its supposedly happened a few times in the town i live.

Ri_Nollaig

would it not be stupid to start introducing fingerprint scanners?
i know it would take ages for full effect and some people mightnt be too happy with the bank have your fingerprint on record( what do u have to hide anyway ). but it shouldnt be too dear, komplett are selling a usb version here and this would ensure (or atleast make it even harder) security, as they can they have card, pin and fingerprint? what do you think?

j22

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

How exactly did they get your bank details?
looking over you shoulder at pin?

They insert some kind of card reader over the slot you put your card into and this reads the details on your card. They then have a small camera placed above where it can se you entering your pin. What ever is attached can be unattached in a matter of seconds.

There was a section of crimeline devoted to this area this evening. I didnt know anything about it before that. Its amazing how quick and easily it can be fitted and removed.

jimmycrackcorm

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

would it not be stupid to start introducing fingerprint scanners?
i know it would take ages for full effect and some people mightnt be too happy with the bank have your fingerprint on record( what do u have to hide anyway ). but it shouldnt be too dear, komplett are selling a usb version here and this would ensure (or atleast make it even harder) security, as they can they have card, pin and fingerprint? what do you think?

I read that they implemented them in South Africa and suddenly a lot of people had their thumbs cut off when being mugged.

Our man in Havana

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I read that they implemented them in South Africa and suddenly a lot of people had their thumbs cut off when being mugged.

Ouch, must be very messy for the mugger!

Goodshape

Bond-007 wrote:

Ouch, must be very messy for the mugger!

Indeed. Poor muggers

Karl Hungus

In fairness, the only sure way to be safe is to queue up in the bank and make your withdrawals there.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Hey I always thought ATMs had cameras inside them, looking out. (think this was something I saw on an american TV show years ago) ... if they had this, surely they could just watch who's tampering with the machines?

Our man in Havana

Yes Americian ATMs do have internal cameras. They are way ahead of us.

Oral Slang

I think the scammers have copped on that most people cover the buttons when typing their pin - my friend had this happen to her after she covered her pin & the bank said that thats not enough anymore.

This happened to my brother who lives in London during the summer. He took money out in the airport before boarding his flight, came home two weeks later to find £2000 gone! Apparently mid way during his holiday, the bank increased his transaction limit - nice of them eh?

He rang & gave them hell, asking if it hadn't occurred to them to realise that on his Laser Card there were loads of foreign transactions, while someone in London was merrily using his card too! Idiots...

Angels

James Dub wrote:

I just seen on the news there about ATM fraud,i myself have fallen victim to this last weekend (outside Ireland) last Saturday night i made a withdrawal in the Hotel i was staying in it had a few ATM's,when i went to make the withdrawal it told me i had insufficient funds which i knew was impossible,i just thought it was a dodgy machine or something,anyway i checked my balance online a few minutes later and sure enough i was right i had plenty of funds in my account so i went to another ATM in the Hotel and withdrew money,this was done about 11.45pm or thereabouts.

Anyway yesterday evening i arrived in Dublin Airport and withdrew €40,went to work today and checked by balance and nearly passed out when i seen it,there was almost €800 gone,3 quick withdrawals done on the Sat nite and it seems shortly after midnight,i was stunned as you can imagine,i got onto my Bank the AIB and told them,they are to send me out a form to fill in and they cancelled my bank card and will issue me with another one,i just thought id warn people about this even in a bloody Hotel lobby it can happen not just ATM's in the street,anyway ive been reliably informed that i should get my money back but seen as it was outside Ireland it could take longer,has anyone else fallen victim to this despicable crime and if so were you waiting long for a refund,etc?

What a time as well for it to happen Xmas,im hoping the AIB will be good enough to give me a loan until such time i get my money back.

To be honest with you AIB are very corrupt.

Im not trying to change the subject or anything but i had trouble with them before.

I was to have my direct debit from the credit union increased 2 years ago. That was fine i gave all my details & it was to be sent off and up & running the week after. I checked my account over the next few months & the DD was still at the original amount & there was no increase i called the Credit Union to ask why this was, they said they were recieving the correct payment. I was really confused as to where they were getting it from cause it wasn't coming from my account.

I called the bank AIB, they said they would investigate & liase with the Credit union 3 days past. I got a call from financial manager in AIB, she stated that for some unknown reason the wrong account number was given on the DD form which i know for a fact was untrue & that a member of staff in Dublin authorized the amount to be taken from account number given.

So a poor girl in Dundalk was paying my DD for 3 months. I was made pay over €300 to the AIB so they could refund her account.

Is that corrupt or was i the dishonest one??

dimerocks

my girlfriends dad had his house broken into one night in dublin had his cards and car stolen and when he went to cancell the cards the next morning there was already a lot of money gone.just shows that they are stalkers also.

Hobbes

RuggieBear wrote:

something similar happened to me a little while back.....had over 800 euro taken from my accounts....Ulster Bank basically told me it was my problem and that the criminal must have known my pin thus i was liable. Bastards:(

Did they have your card as well? If they didn't then you are not liable.

Tha Gopher

jezza wrote:

A.I.B are stupid.

No, their customers are. I am nearly the only person Ive ever seen giving the card slot a feel, tugging the panelling to check if its loose, then covering with my hand as I enter the PIN. I do it every time. I even requested a new card after using an ATM in town when I was locked that looked mighty suspicious (due to me being pissed I foolishly used it regardless)

It was a BOI machine in Westmoreland Street. When I told AIB of why i wanted my card cancelled/replaced and the reason, they didnt even ask where the ATM I used actually was so they could check it I know its a rival bank but still, come on!

But as said I am utterly paranoid regarding security. I once dropped out of a queue Id been in for 10 mins for an ATM when I noticed two black lads standing around 8 feet from the ATM, outside the queue. Normally I wouldnt think twice, but what arose my suspicion was that they were chatting mostly in English out loud, casual chat about whatever, work, what they did last night etc. But every so often they would say a line or two in their native language. Their chat in their native language increased when they saw me glancing at them. I immediately left the queue, returned a minute later and the lads had scarpered. Could be coincidence but you cant be too careful (and before the racism cries sound, it wasnt racism, it was common sense. If you saw four Asians walking around the tube with backpacks the day after the London attacks you would be suspicious, and in the same way if you see two foreign lads acting suspiciously near an ATM you notice it too)

Angels

Tha Gopher wrote:

No, their customers are. I am nearly the only person Ive ever seen giving the card slot a feel, tugging the panelling to check if its loose, then covering with my hand as I enter the PIN. I do it every time. I even requested a new card after using an ATM in town when I was locked that looked mighty suspicious (due to me being pissed I foolishly used it regardless)

It was a BOI machine in Westmoreland Street. When I told AIB of why i wanted my card cancelled/replaced and the reason, they didnt even ask where the ATM I used actually was so they could check it I know its a rival bank but still, come on!

But as said I am utterly paranoid regarding security. I once dropped out of a queue Id been in for 10 mins for an ATM when I noticed two black lads standing around 8 feet from the ATM, outside the queue. Normally I wouldnt think twice, but what arose my suspicion was that they were chatting mostly in English out loud, casual chat about whatever, work, what they did last night etc. But every so often they would say a line or two in their native language. Their chat in their native language increased when they saw me glancing at them. I immediately left the queue, returned a minute later and the lads had scarpered. Could be coincidence but you cant be too careful (and before the racism cries sound, it wasnt racism, it was common sense. If you saw four Asians walking around the tube with backpacks the day after the London attacks you would be suspicious, and in the same way if you see two foreign lads acting suspiciously near an ATM you notice it too)

Ever heard of the punch line 'The Customer is always right'

RuggieBear

Hobbes wrote:

Did they have your card as well? If they didn't then you are not liable.

yes

rick_fantastic

my little brother got scammed in new zealand. when he came back there was 400euro missing from his account and the transactions were not from places that he'd been in.

he rang the bank and they basically said it was his own fault for getting scammed and they would do nothing for him. poor kid is only 16.

guess what, he was with aib.... pack of ****

Hobbes

Depends on how he was scammed. If it was credit card transactions they have to prove you signed the slips. If you didn't they make you liable for it. Add to that if you can prove that you were not in that part of the world at that time then you can't be charged for it either.

I'm sure its a matter of confidence they try to pull this crap.

Nala

My aunt works for a large security company and told me that 60% of the atms in this country are rigged, she said that it is mostly non-nationals that do it and that should I ever be going to use an atm and see any non-nationals standing nearby, or sitting in a car, that look anyway suspicious, to not use that machine.

Angels

Nala wrote:

My aunt works for a large security company and told me that 60% of the atms in this country are rigged, she said that it is mostly non-nationals that do it and that should I ever be going to use an atm and see any non-nationals standing nearby, or sitting in a car, that look anyway suspicious, to not use that machine.

this is freaking me out !!!

Kolodny

Someone I know recently had over €1000 go missing from his account shortly after using an ATM in Dublin City Centre. I'm fairly sure he got the money back through his bank though. Must ask him what bank he is with...

zAbbo

ATM beside where i work, was scammed.

I rarely take money out these days, at this stage everyone knows someone who has been scammed with an atm scanner.

Racist or not, I will not use an ATM with a eastern europeon or black guy near it.

Lex_Diamonds

Nala wrote:

My aunt works for a large security company and told me that 60% of the atms in this country are rigged, she said that it is mostly non-nationals that do it and that should I ever be going to use an atm and see any non-nationals standing nearby, or sitting in a car, that look anyway suspicious, to not use that machine.

Sounds like racist scaremongering to me. "And the black people secretly inject aids into you while you are waiting for a bus!"

Dilly1

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Sounds like racist scaremongering to me. "And the black people secretly inject aids into you while you are waiting for a bus!"

Do they !!??

Thats it I am never using the Buses again !

Angels

I don't think people posting here mean to be racist but what they are saying is very true if you saw Crimeline last night. Non nationals seem to be scamming ATM's.

This was never even heard of 2 years ago. How come all of a sudden population of non nationals grow & ATM scammers seem to grow so????

Tha Gopher

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Sounds like racist scaremongering to me. "And the black people secretly inject aids into you while you are waiting for a bus!"

Sounds like bury-head-in-sand syndrome to me

The reason Id be more suspicious of a pair of Africans standing beside an ATM as opposed to Irish lads is that, for whatever reason, Irish criminals simply seem unable to do this scam as good as the foreigners. I dont have the stats to hand, but the fact is that the vast majority of ATM scams, credit card skimming in restaurents etc is done by foreigners, usually either Romanian or Nigerian people. Im merely taking a precaution against what a disproportionate amount of their people are involved in. The vast majority are not involved but you still cant be too careful. If I was a Nigerian living in Ireland id be wary of my countryfolk scamming my ATM. The fact is most of them are fine, its the minority (as for gypsies from Eastern Europe I know one or two. You certainly have to watch your back, but theyre nowhere near as dangerous or sneaky as the Irish travellers Ive met)

Id apply the same logic as to how Id risk-assess the Irish. If Im walking in the North Inner city and I see a crowd of five Irish young lads approach me, I get ready mentally for a fight. Im ready, I have my fist clenched. I dont need a fight, but I realise theres a tiny possibility that one will occur because they dont know me, and thus I need to be ready. Me refusing them a fag could kick off a bout in which I would probably get a good kicking, but if I have to take a beating, I wouldnt mind smashing a nose or two before finally falling. The foreigners do the racial assesment thing too. Ive often seen Africans either give me an odd look or bow their head when they pass me. Why? Because they see a young white Irishman wearing a tracksuit, walking around a rough area, and they think Im a risk. Im certainly no threat to them, but I cant say Im offended, its the same as I do to them at ATMS.

However, if I see a group of 4 or 5 Chinese lads I dont get ready for a fight. The reason being that from the Chinese I know most of them are very law abiding and cause no trouble (its actually amazing to me that the Triads are the strongest foreign crime group in Ireland. I only ever knew one Chinese skanger, and he was born/raised here, the rest all seem so law abiding and work themselves to death its almost unimaginable that they would engage in serious crime). Group of ex Soviets approaching? Yes, Im on possible row alert, primarily because the Poles/Lithuanians etc are so like the Irish they need the same guard to be kept. As for the Africans it depends, if they look tough I prepare for battle, if they dont then I dont bother.

Lex_Diamonds

Yeah I understand what you are saying, im not denying the assertion that the majority of atm fraud is carried out by non-nationals.

It was just the nature of the paragraph I quoted, kind of a whisper in your ear, cant be quite verified urban legend type deal that seems designed to undermine opinions of foreign nationals over here in general.

Nala

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Yeah I understand what you are saying, im not denying the assertion that the majority of atm fraud is carried out by non-nationals.

It was just the nature of the paragraph I quoted, kind of a whisper in your ear, cant be quite verified urban legend type deal that seems designed to undermine opinions of foreign nationals over here in general.

It mighta sounded like scaremongering but the aunt in question is pretty straightforward and not one for making things up or gossiping. And she isn't in any way racist either. But the fact of the matter is, it is mostly non-nationals that do it.

BizMaker

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Sounds like racist scaremongering to me. "And the black people secretly inject aids into you while you are waiting for a bus!"

This is a ridiculous comment.
Would you honestly use an ATM with a bunch of Romanians or Nigerians standing nearby? Of course you will reply that you would have no problem with it (because you live in a cocoon).

It makes common sense to shield your pin number when you entering the information and if you are feeling uncomfortable about anyone standing near you, just walk away and go to another ATM or come back later.

And I know ……………………. I am a racist for disagreeing with you.

Repli

I completely agree with BizMaker on this one, every single news report I've seen on atm skimming has involved either eastern europeans, or nigerians being prosecuted.. Not once have I heard about an Irish person being prosecuted for skimming, so either we're a lot better at it or not involved as much. I'd go for the latter. It's not racist, it's just common sense ffs..

JTMan

I know someone who had €20,000 taken from card cloning seriously. The bank (BOI) gave all the money back. The card was a pre- chip and pin card. Does anyone know if card cloning works on the new chip and pin cards?

TerrorFirmer

tman wrote:

1337 just isn't a secure pin these days man

Changing it to 8008 is only going to hold them off for so long though.

They're pretty smart guys, it seems.