Stamp Duty - Overcharged by solicitor

Lex Luthor

Just got a nice cheque from my solictor for overpaying on stamp duty on house I bought 8 months ago.
Apparently they calculated my stamp duty requirement on the full price of the house and not the pre Vat price.

Now they weren't forthcoming with the info and we sort of stumbled across it as we were talking about a house I'm in the process of buying and they mentioned that I only needed to pay the SD on the pre VAT price of this house, so I posed the question as to why they charged me on the full house price last time.

Bonus, first time I walked out of a solictors office with a cheque in me back pocket.

Peace

Lex Luthor wrote:

Just got a nice cheque from my solictor for overpaying on stamp duty on house I bought 8 months ago.
Apparently they calculated my stamp duty requirement on the full price of the house and not the pre Vat price.

Now they weren't forthcoming with the info and we sort of stumbled across it as we were talking about a house I'm in the process of buying and they mentioned that I only needed to pay the SD on the pre VAT price of this house, so I posed the question as to why they charged me on the full house price last time.

Bonus, first time I walked out of a solictors office with a cheque in me back pocket.

Everybody stop:

Please explain a little further.... how much vat did you pay on your house purchase?

I'm a FTB and buying a house for 326000 and calculate my stamp duty liablility to be 9780.

ck1

Calculation if right if the property is a second hand home.

LegacyUser

Peace wrote:

Everybody stop:

Please explain a little further.... how much vat did you pay on your house purchase?

I'm a FTB and buying a house for 326000 and calculate my stamp duty liablility to be 9780.

I never knew that it was based on the pre Vat price!! Thanks for passing on the info!
If you were not an FTB .. then what would it be?

lomb

thats excellent, i know for a fact in the uk its on the vat inclusive price, thanks for the heads up lex.

Victor

I think the overcharging is symptomic of a industry that has things like the deliberate double charging of abuse victims. Its tantamount to fraud.

VAT (in Ireland) is only chargeable on "improved" properties, primarily properties that have changed from being land to land + buildings, but can also include odd cases like the clearance of derelict sites, buildings improved substantially, etc.

rooferPete

Hi Lex,

I presume the property is new not second hand ?

What troubles me a little, actually enough to drop that Solicitor like a hot coal is how could he / she re-imburse you for funds they are supposed to have paid over to the registry office on your behalf ?

I would expect that situation would be any Solicitors worst nightmare, surely they would have to request the Lender (if any)to release the Deeds and have the documents corrected by the Stamping office.

I recall a few years ago where a member of staff in the Land Registry had his own stamp made and was using the counterfeit one to stamp the deeds but charging the Solicitors the full amount as is standard practice.

I also recall that anybody unfortunate enough to have had the deeds stamped by the gent did not hold full title to their property until the deeds were stamped again and the amount paid again.

What I can't remember is if it was the Solicitor or the client who had to pay for the re-stamping of the deeds.

After 8 months I would expect my Solicitor to have completed the transaction.

Lex Luthor

Just to give a little background on the whole situation.

The property in question where I was overcharged was a new property as an investment. I dealt with one of the other solicitors in the firm as I did last week. She now no longer works there.

She charged me the 3% on the full price on the property back in March, along with other charges (their fees, land registry etc.)

So I am in the process of buying another inv. property at the moment, also new, and using the same solicitor. This time the main partner is handling my conveyance. So he starts to calculate the SD on the new house and works it out to about €600 less than to what I thought it would have been. Asked why it wasn't 3% on the full price, he said it was only calculated on the pre VAT price. So I brought up the previous time 8 months earlier that I was charged on the full price and he pulled the file.

He was upfront and very honest about the whole situation, I supposed he had to be. He showed me the receipt to the revenue on what they paid on stamp duty, which was calculated on the pre vat price. He told me that the file was still open as the land registry had yet to be paid on it and when that was done, the file would have been closed and the discrepancy would have been noticed then and I would have got a refund. But instead I got it there & then.

I presume it has nothing to do with the fact that it's an investment property as its still charging vat on vat.

He told me this its very common for this to happen. Also went on about the solicitor who dealt with me that over charged me saying she was useless and had no idea of tax law, etc, etc.

He held his hands up and apologised on her behalf.

Is it normal 8 months after closing on a sale for the land registry not to be completed?

Lex Luthor

Peace wrote:

Everybody stop:

Please explain a little further.... how much vat did you pay on your house purchase?

I'm a FTB and buying a house for 326000 and calculate my stamp duty liablility to be 9780.

If its a new house, you should only be paying about €1k less in stamp duty from what I can gather from my solicitor.

bubby wrote:

If you were not an FTB .. then what would it be?

doesn't matter. I wasn't a FTB either.

Victor

Lex Luthor wrote:

Is it normal 8 months after closing on a sale for the land registry not to be completed?

I've heard of it taking years.

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

I've heard of it taking years.

They have 2 years to do it. I found out when selling a property I bought and sold in a 1 1/2 years. I was really surprised so I checked it out with the law library

Lex Luthor

MorningStar wrote:

They have 2 years to do it.

Not bad for the solicitors that they can make on the interest on this money in their account for up to 2 yrs.

I have no sympathy

MorningStar

Lex Luthor wrote:

Not bad for the solicitors that they can make on the interest on this money in their account for up to 2 yrs.

I have no sympathy

I can't see it being worth much money to them. Isn't land registration a pretty small amount? Are you thinking of the stamp duty?

Lex Luthor

MorningStar wrote:

I can't see it being worth much money to them. Isn't land registration a pretty small amount? Are you thinking of the stamp duty?

One persons land registry may not be a lot, but if you have a lot of clients, then it adds up

ck1

I understoond that the document to be Stamped was to be presented to the Revenue within 30 days of execution and payment was to be made 14 days after that to avoid interest and penalties.

Also has the solicitor offered you any interest as they had your money for all that time?

Lex Luthor

ck1 wrote:

I understoond that the document to be Stamped was to be presented to the Revenue within 30 days of execution and payment was to be made 14 days after that to avoid interest and penalties.

Also has the solicitor offered you any interest as they had your money for all that time?

Interest would only amount to about €2....hardly worth complaining about