A lad killed on the quay...

angry_fox

I was told a man was seriously injured last wednesday becasue he jumped on to a lorry at Oxygen and then fell off it at the tower, lost his legs and then died. I honestly can not belive this, was he a student in the college?

c - 13

Everyone has a slightly different story on this, but no-one seems to know the truth.
Not to start a game of chinese whispers here but this is what I heard.

The person in question came out of the bowery and there was a cattle truck stopped at the lights at the tower, the guy hopped onto the coupling between the cab and the trailer, the van moved out from the lights and the guy fel in between the trailer and cab and under the wheels, he was taken to ardkeen, is still alive but has lost/is going to lose one of his legs.

X-mas day in the college and large amounts of alcohol are being given the blame for the whole thing and the college director was on the news the other day giving out about it and so on.

To be honest i'm not surprised something happened to someone considering the state that some people were in on wednesday. I went into the dome at around 3 wednesday afternoon and the amount of people who couldnt stand up was unreal, all of whom were all full of plans to head into town that night.

meldrew

It was on the radio on Friday alright but there was nothing about the incident reported at the weekend .

merlante

That's a real pity, for the guy involved. And also for other students (if its a student) that may have to endure more draconian rules from now on. Although if there was a silver bullet for controlling drunkeness and drunken bahaviour, I don't think the state would have waited this long before using it.

When I think of the messing that goes on in Waterford (and other places) late at night, I'm surprised more tragedies haven't occurred.

As an aside, I hope they get the trucks out of the centre of town after the bypass is built. Keep them to the outer ring road/bypass where possible. Get them off Manor st./The Mall/The Quay.

trishw78

I surprised they haven't already banned x-mas day in the college after that guy that was knocked down a couple of years ago for falling out under a passing car.

Is it any wonder that the government brought the drinking hours back. It's always the few that ruin it for the many

Freddie59

angry_fox wrote:

I was told a man was seriously injured last wednesday becasue he jumped on to a lorry at Oxygen and then fell off it at the tower, lost his legs and then died. I honestly can not belive this, was he a student in the college?

AFAIK I don't think the chap's dead. He is very critical in Cork at the minute. But - hey - let's not rush to criticise. Think of his family. We've all done stupid things we're not proud of and we shouldn't really comment unless we know the circumstances. Pause, think of him, and say a prayer for him given the season that's in it.:(

Freddie59

c - 13 wrote:

X-mas day in the college and large amounts of alcohol are being given the blame for the whole thing and the college director was on the news the other day giving out about it and so on.

I know you can't stop students from drinking altogether, but I for one think it's absolutely ridiculous to have a pub open during student (daytime) hours on a third-level campus. It makes absolutely no sense at all. Time to review it all methinks.

angry_fox

Freddie59 wrote:

I know you can't stop students from drinking altogether, but I for one think it's absolutely ridiculous to have a pub open during student (daytime) hours on a third-level campus. It makes absolutely no sense at all. Time to review it all methinks.

Students Union would go nuts about that...... but something should be done, maybe the dome should be opened later on christmas day in the college but doubt it would make any difference.......

All people can really do is hope for the best for that chap and his family, no point in saying how immature and stupid it was, that lad will have that thought going through his head for the rest of his life

c - 13

angry_fox wrote:

Students Union would go nuts about that...... but something should be done, maybe the dome should be opened later on christmas day in the college but doubt it would make any difference.......

I dont think the dome is owned by the students union anymore though, as far as I know someone bought it up during the summer (hence the refurbishment) because theres a guy (who i presume is the owner) who often walks around the bar talking to the students asking if theyre enjoying themselves/ opinions on the bands playing etc.

merlante

Freddie59 wrote:

I know you can't stop students from drinking altogether, but I for one think it's absolutely ridiculous to have a pub open during student (daytime) hours on a third-level campus. It makes absolutely no sense at all. Time to review it all methinks.

You're totally wrong here. Why shouldn't a student be able to socialise and have a quiet, civilised pint during the day. The bar staff aren't supposed to serve you by law if you've had too much to drink -- that's supposed to be the law. How many accidents and crazy incidents happen during the daytime, anyway?

The government and others in this country seem to be under the impression that Irish people are wanton drunks who will never be able to control themselves around alcohol and therefore the only way we can clamp down on drunkeness and rowdy behaviour is to restrict our access to drink. This is total bollox, as although it may reduce such behaviour by reducing the supply of drink, IT DOES NOT educate people on the risks of drink and IT DOES NOT try to promulgate a more responsible attitude to alcohol consumption.

The quicker we get rid of all supply constraints on alcohol and force people to learn how to drink responsibly, the quicker the Irish drink problem will be solved. Shuffling opening hours around will not reduce the number of alcoholics and will not breed any healthy drinking patterns. Unfortunately the term "Nanny State" has been hijacked by the smoking lobby, but there is no better term to describe what is going on regarding drinking legislation in this country. It's only a matter of time before you get your wish and there are no bars on college campuses -- where will they disappear from next? (not the Dail anyway!)

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

You're totally wrong here. Why shouldn't a student be able to socialise and have a quiet, civilised pint during the day. The bar staff aren't supposed to serve you by law if you've had too much to drink -- that's supposed to be the law. How many accidents and crazy incidents happen during the daytime, anyway?

The government and others in this country seem to be under the impression that Irish people are wanton drunks who will never be able to control themselves around alcohol and therefore the only way we can clamp down on drunkeness and rowdy behaviour is to restrict our access to drink. This is total bollox, as although it may reduce such behaviour by reducing the supply of drink, IT DOES NOT educate people on the risks of drink and IT DOES NOT try to promulgate a more responsible attitude to alcohol consumption.

The quicker we get rid of all supply constraints on alcohol and force people to learn how to drink responsibly, the quicker the Irish drink problem will be solved. Shuffling opening hours around will not reduce the number of alcoholics and will not breed any healthy drinking patterns. Unfortunately the term "Nanny State" has been hijacked by the smoking lobby, but there is no better term to describe what is going on regarding drinking legislation in this country. It's only a matter of time before you get your wish and there are no bars on college campuses -- where will they disappear from next? (not the Dail anyway!)

I think your reply has highlighted adequately the need to impose such a ban. Instead of prioritising the reason the student is there in the first instance (ie to be educated) you prioritise that the pub should not be closed. You ask how many incidents happen during the day? Would you not agree that carrying a day's drinking over to night-time is not very wise?

Students (and my own child is in third level) appear incapable of controlling their alcohol intake by themselves, so the 'nanny state' would appear to need to step in. I have no problem with a student having a sociable pint during the day, but I have a major problem with, as appears to be the case with some, students spending hours in an on-campus pub when they're supposed to be in class.:eek:

All you have to do is to take a trip down Waterford City Centre any Wednesday night, and you will see the students behave like ten year-olds on a drink-fuelled frenzy.

Have you spared a thought, not just for that poor student that was injured, but the lorry driver who has to carry this with him for the rest of his life through no fault of his own? Is getting locked really that important to you? There is so much access to drink in this country it's unbelieveable - and the current youth, unfortunately, appear to be turning into clones of our near neighbours across the pond....and mimic their yobbish behaviour into the bargain.

And that is the most worrying aspect of it. Irish people are recognised throughout the world for their good nature, even when under the influence. However, this appears to be changing radically and rapidly. Something needs to be done. You have to remove the temptation. I think closing bars on campus (at least from 9 to 5) is a start.:mad:

mike65

This thread is going OT somewhat but what the hell, those who are at third level are adults (in the overwhelming majority) and as such bear responsibility for thier own actions, closing down bars won't make a blind bit of difference to those are are feckless and wreckless.

Mike.

Mossy Monk

if they want a Christmas Day why not close their pub like the rest of us

Sully

c - 13 wrote:

Everyone has a slightly different story on this, but no-one seems to know the truth.
Not to start a game of chinese whispers here but this is what I heard.

The person in question came out of the bowery and there was a cattle truck stopped at the lights at the tower, the guy hopped onto the coupling between the cab and the trailer, the van moved out from the lights and the guy fel in between the trailer and cab and under the wheels, he was taken to ardkeen, is still alive but has lost/is going to lose one of his legs.

X-mas day in the college and large amounts of alcohol are being given the blame for the whole thing and the college director was on the news the other day giving out about it and so on.

To be honest i'm not surprised something happened to someone considering the state that some people were in on wednesday. I went into the dome at around 3 wednesday afternoon and the amount of people who couldnt stand up was unreal, all of whom were all full of plans to head into town that night.

Spoke to one of the bouncers who was on the door at the Dome. He inquired and was told the same thing. He has lost his leg. He was a 1st Year Student.

c - 13 wrote:

I dont think the dome is owned by the students union anymore though, as far as I know someone bought it up during the summer (hence the refurbishment) because theres a guy (who i presume is the owner) who often walks around the bar talking to the students asking if theyre enjoying themselves/ opinions on the bands playing etc.

Well, whoever does own it - all the money goes back into the college. He also isnt hiring that many bouncers, claims he will do it himself - apparently.

Christmas day, while its a nice idea, gets out of hand and its not supported by the college (apart from Students Union who moan about anything and everything) and they were advised NOT to have it this year untill at LEAST the study week (due to the large number of people absent etc). What, 72 arrests last year? Jumping on top of vans, robbing houses etc? Pathetic.

If your going to drink - drink sensible. This guy (no offence) was only in the college a few months, got pissed, jumped on top of a lorry (I mean, WTF?) and slipped of getting his leg crushed. Would he of done it if he was sober? I highly doubt it. Was it the drink? Obviously.

Those who say drink isnt any harm need a good kicking so they can wake up and see reality. No offence :P

When will the Students Union, pubs and people wake up and realise: GETTING PISSED IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST WAY TO HAVE FUN! Not anti-drink, but im anti-drunk

They had that whole week of Alcohol awareness, and nobody listened. It gave good points and facts to.

Im sure iv pissed people of by saying this, and im sure ill get flammed back and abuse thrown at me. Im entitled to my opinion and your entitled to yours. Im not gonna flame you, so dont flame me k
[/rant]

Mossy Monk

Sully04 wrote:

Im sure iv pissed people of by saying this, and im sure ill get flammed back and abuse thrown at me. Im entitled to my opinion and your entitled to yours. Im not gonna flame you, so dont flame me k

seems to be a pretty spot on POV imo

merlante

Freddie59 wrote:

I think your reply has highlighted adequately the need to impose such a ban. Instead of prioritising the reason the student is there in the first instance (ie to be educated) you prioritise that the pub should not be closed. You ask how many incidents happen during the day? Would you not agree that carrying a day's drinking over to night-time is not very wise?

The argument, as started by you, was that pubs on campuses should be closed. Why then would I start talking about "the reason the student is there in the first instance" when that had nothing to do with the argument you were making? Of course the student is there to be educated. Students have classes at various points during the day, and are expected to complete assignments, etc. during their free time. As such a students day is only partially timetabled. Thus there will be times during the day when they are free, and times during the evening when they are studying or doing an assignment, i.e. not free. Why shouldn't a student, who is an adult like the rest of us, not be entitled to a pint during his/her free time? Be it during the day or during the evening.

As for your comment about carrying a days drinking over to the night, did you actually read any of my previous post at all, regarding responsible drinking patterns and mature attitudes to drinking? Patterns and attitudes, I might add, which the previous generation have done absolutely nothing to promote!

Freddie59 wrote:

Students (and my own child is in third level) appear incapable of controlling their alcohol intake by themselves, so the 'nanny state' would appear to need to step in. I have no problem with a student having a sociable pint during the day, but I have a major problem with, as appears to be the case with some, students spending hours in an on-campus pub when they're supposed to be in class.:eek:

As a parent, you have to accept that if your kid has a penchant for getting rat arsed at all times of the day and night, and will drink him or her self in to oblivion as soon as one sup of alcohol passes the lips, and can't pass a public house without walking in and ordering a drink, then your kid has a serious problem. Attempting to keep drink away from such an individual is pointless because they will get it from somewhere.

Take the pubs off the campuses and you hand money to the off-licenses. Students will have more house parties and probably drink more of the cheaper booze.

Now how about we try something new, and try to change the culture a little bit. Get rid of the closing hours, let people drink whenever they want, and, if the bartenders break the law and let them, as much as they want. The country would go mad for a few weeks, but at the end of that, we'd have a much more sensible attitude to binge drinking.

I admit that I myself will drink until a pub closes, because usually I don't have time to get truly drunk. If the pubs didn't close, I would be forced to re-evaluate how much drink I should be drinking, how often, etc. Instead now, people tend to go mad when they get a chance to buy drink for longer or for cheaper.

We can't even take ourselves abroad because we have never had to learn proper patterns of drinking, because our patterns of drinking have been enforced on us, and we are forever trying to get the extra pint that "the man" doesn't want us to have. This is not just students, this is me, my parents, and everyone else!

Freddie59 wrote:

All you have to do is to take a trip down Waterford City Centre any Wednesday night, and you will see the students behave like ten year-olds on a drink-fuelled frenzy.

They have inherited their drinking practices from the previous generation. The only difference is they have more money! What has the previous generation done to change our attitudes to drink? Nothing.

Freddie59 wrote:

Have you spared a thought, not just for that poor student that was injured, but the lorry driver who has to carry this with him for the rest of his life through no fault of his own? Is getting locked really that important to you? There is so much access to drink in this country it's unbelieveable - and the current youth, unfortunately, appear to be turning into clones of our near neighbours across the pond....and mimic their yobbish behaviour into the bargain.

Only by taking away all restrictions to drink will we be forced to learn proper drinking habits. I do however think that many bartenders break the law by serving drunk people.

Freddie59 wrote:

And that is the most worrying aspect of it. Irish people are recognised throughout the world for their good nature, even when under the influence. However, this appears to be changing radically and rapidly. Something needs to be done. You have to remove the temptation. I think closing bars on campus (at least from 9 to 5) is a start.:mad:

They're adults, whether you like it or not. (and you obviously don't) If the education they were given by their parents and by their school wasn't enough to prepare them for adulthood, then I guess they're going to have to learn their lessons the hard way.

And anyway, have you thought for a second that not all students are under 21? Colleges and Universities, as you rightly said, are for educating; they are not creches. Kids have to grow up sometime.

This "will somebody please think of the children" line is alarmist and appeals only to the most conservative and non-sensical solutions -- as parodied by yer one on the Simpsons!

Aquos76

Just to go back on topic again, This story has made the front page news on todays Waferford's News & Star.

OLDYELLAR

Well to be honest Im not surprised something like this happened down there last wednesday night.

I nearly had a lad under the wheels of my car at Oxygen , he came tearing out , didnt even look , I only spotted him at the last second , it was bloody ridiculous down outside of Oxygen and Masons.

There was a guard there , he didnt seem to be doing much , but then again I suppose what could he do with people running across the street as if there was no traffic around.

Cabaal

Freddie59 wrote:

AFAIK I don't think the chap's dead. He is very critical in Cork at the minute. But - hey - let's not rush to criticise. Think of his family. We've all done stupid things we're not proud of and we shouldn't really comment unless we know the circumstances. Pause, think of him, and say a prayer for him given the season that's in it.:(

ah come on, there's a big difference between stupid things and bloody retarted actions and drink is no excuse, to hop onto a drunk or whatever means you have a lot less brain cells then the standard Joe or Jane

Rollo Tamasi

merlante wrote:

Thus there will be times during the day when they are free, and times during the evening when they are studying or doing an assignment, i.e. not free. Why shouldn't a student, who is an adult like the rest of us, not be entitled to a pint during his/her free time? Be it during the day or during the evening.

are you off your game or what? How many professionals do you see in the pub drinking while on their lunch break. Do you see Gaurds drinking tinnies on their breaks, firemen? lawyers? The kids are there to get educated not to be in the pub a hour a day and then get re-educateded. Having an hours break in the middle of a 9 hours day is NOT FREE TIME!!!. Do you honestly think you will learn much when you have the taste for drink inside you?

I think that the Dome should not be allowed to serve alcohol during the day full stop. The college is full of impressionable young people who will gladly sit on their arse instead of attending classes.

kensutz

I'm definitely not surprised at that happening. A few years ago going to work I had a twat walk right out in front of me from the dome. He actually walked into the car and walked away, I didnt stop. His own fault

merlante

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

are you off your game or what? How many professionals do you see in the pub drinking while on their lunch break. Do you see Gaurds drinking tinnies on their breaks, firemen? lawyers? The kids are there to get educated not to be in the pub a hour a day and then get re-educateded. Having an hours break in the middle of a 9 hours day is NOT FREE TIME!!!. Do you honestly think you will learn much when you have the taste for drink inside you?

I think that the Dome should not be allowed to serve alcohol during the day full stop. The college is full of impressionable young people who will gladly sit on their arse instead of attending classes.

From what I've read on here, it's just as well the rabble aren't on charge of colleges/universities, or all social activities would be banned and they'd all become large, glorified secondary schools. :mad:

Firstly, they are not kids, they are adults, whether you like it or not. I know plenty of older adults that behave just as recklessly as your "stereotypical" student. Secondly, most students have more cop on than your stereotype.

College days are supposed to be more relaxed (and dare I say it, fun!) and free-form than a professional environment. And anyway, there is the phenomenon of the liquid lunch among professionals! I would say that very, very few students would go drinking if they only had one hour off between classes: most of them would be finished for the day, or wouldn't have lectures until much later. I doubt very many students drink all day and then drink all night. Students are not thick, they realise they have to pass exams -- and the vast majority of them do!

And what percentage of problems occur during the day anyway? Very, very few!

There's not a word about cracking down on bartenders that serve drunk people, just talk of closing student bars during the day, WHEN THERE IS NO TROUBLE!

I think some of you just didn't get to college yourselves and you can't stand seeing the students enjoying themselves!

c - 13

Well the bouncers at the dome definatly werent doing anything about the crowds of drunk peple there on wens, I was out for a smoke on one particular occassion (around 4 - 4.30 ish) and a girl came staggering out past us, slumped up against the wall, attempted to make a phone call, then staggered straight back in past the bouncers again who didnt even bat an eyelid.

I thought it was the bouncers responsibility not to allow intoxicated people back in ? I mean this girl was far past drunk, and keeping in mind that girl who was raped on christmas day last year I would have thought that they would be extra vigilant this year.

Oh well, wonder what can be done to top that one next year. :rolleyes:

OLDYELLAR

c - 13 wrote:

Well the bouncers at the dome definatly werent doing anything about the crowds of drunk peple there on wens, I was out for a smoke on one particular occassion (around 4 - 4.30 ish) and a girl came staggering out past us, slumped up against the wall, attempted to make a phone call, then staggered straight back in past the bouncers again who didnt even bat an eyelid.

I thought it was the bouncers responsibility not to allow intoxicated people back in ? I mean this girl was far past drunk, and keeping in mind that girl who was raped on christmas day last year I would have thought that they would be extra vigilant this year.

Oh well, wonder what can be done to top that one next year. :rolleyes:

I was actually thinking the exact same thing myself , I seen a girl staggering up the cork road on her own , and I was wondering was it last college xmas day when that girl got raped .

I couldnt believe her friends left her off on her own in that state , the girl could barely walk like , stupidity getting in that state and then walking home alone.

c - 13

OLDYELLAR wrote:

I couldnt believe her friends left her off on her own in that state , the girl could barely walk like , stupidity getting in that state and then walking home alone.

Seems to be the "in" thing to do this year or something, I was nearly knocked down three seperate times in the dome by girls running past bawling, usually followed by confused looking boyfriends a few seconds later.

Freddie59

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

are you off your game or what? How many professionals do you see in the pub drinking while on their lunch break. Do you see Gaurds drinking tinnies on their breaks, firemen? lawyers? The kids are there to get educated not to be in the pub a hour a day and then get re-educateded. Having an hours break in the middle of a 9 hours day is NOT FREE TIME!!!. Do you honestly think you will learn much when you have the taste for drink inside you?

I think that the Dome should not be allowed to serve alcohol during the day full stop. The college is full of impressionable young people who will gladly sit on their arse instead of attending classes.

I have to agree. It's amazing that through second level, discpline is applied across the board. Students go to third level, where they should be preparing for the responsibilities on Industtrial life with all it's hazards. Instead of this they are allowed do what they like. Now, while the majority can act as adults and behave, there are a small minority who will never grow up.

I think all third level institutions must take responsibility for this and tighten up. Otherwise far worse will happen.:(

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

From what I've read on here, it's just as well the rabble aren't on charge of colleges/universities, or all social activities would be banned and they'd all become large, glorified secondary schools. :mad:

I assume you're joking with that petulant, childish comment.

merlante

Freddie59 wrote:

I have to agree. It's amazing that through second level, discpline is applied across the board. Students go to third level, where they should be preparing for the responsibilities on Industtrial life with all it's hazards. Instead of this they are allowed do what they like. Now, while the majority can act as adults and behave, there are a small minority who will never grow up.

Where to start?

1. In second level, the students are kids. In third level, they are adults so you CAN'T apply any discipline to them at all. Once they are acting within the law, and within college regulations, they can do whatever they want; otherwise it's the cops/college's problem.

2. Again, not all students are even young adults. Students can be any age 17/18+. You would devise laws with 17 year olds in mind and apply them to all.

3. Not all students go in to industry. Many go in to the arts and many go in to research. Some of these students will never have to work in a professional environment.

4. College is about broadening the mind as well as being about picking up essential skills. They are NOT secondary schools; the method of teaching is supposed to be MORE freeform.

5. This small minority that will "never grow up". Surely these people would be same whether they were in college or the workplace?

6. If the majority act like adults, then what is the problem?

You seem to have a major problem with the idea of college education. You cannot teach degrees (in particular) in a secondary school, rote learning sort of way. Knowledge must be assimilated gradually over the years in order to build up the proper depth of understanding. Having a non-pressurised and freeform but generally engaging environment allows this to happen. You can't spoon feed degrees, or at least not the best grades or the best degrees. And yes, socialising helps!

The vast majority of students go through college, pass their exams, and become useful members of society: what exactly is your problem?

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

Where to start?
You seem to have a major problem with the idea of college education. You cannot teach degrees (in particular) in a secondary school, rote learning sort of way. Knowledge must be assimilated gradually over the years in order to build up the proper depth of understanding. Having a non-pressurised and freeform but generally engaging environment allows this to happen. You can't spoon feed degrees, or at least not the best grades or the best degrees. And yes, socialising helps!

The vast majority of students go through college, pass their exams, and become useful members of society: what exactly is your problem?

Where to start indeed!

1. You have not answered my query as to the 'rabble' remark.

2. You, my friend, seem to have a problem with people who even DARE to criticise the antics of, as I have already pointed out, a minority of students.......you even go as far as to defend it. Well, takes all sorts I suppose.

3. I have no problem at all with a college education. Two of my children are attending/will attend Third Level. Their choice - not someone else's. I myself did not attend College, but have many friends who did. All of us got on very well in life, thank God.

4. Does having "a non-pressurised and freeform but generally engaging environment" inlude getting sloshed in the middle of the day, at a time when you're supposed to be advancing your education?

It is very sad to see someone come on and try to defend something (pubs on campus during, in effect, "school" hours) which can trigger the scourge of modern society - alcoholism. Is there any chance you could make your mind up. One minute you paint a picture of responsible, mature, Third level attendees, while in the next breath you say that they are nothing more than immature secondary school students. Third Level should be no different to any other walk of life.

It is far too lax and needs tightening. Your own views adequately reflect this.
Keep on-campus pubs open for the chillout effect. A wonderful, if not somewhat Utopian, idea. A very select few go on to beome the artists which you present. The hard facts are that the majority will enter industrial life, where on the job pubs do not exist.

You ask what my problem is. I do not have one. I am not the one seeking to perpetuate daytime 'socialising' as you so affectionately call it, in on-campus pubs. My friend, think long and hard about what you espouse. It is completely irresponsible, and, in my book, totally reprehensible.:(

angry_fox

In all fairness people, maybe students need to be better educated about alcohol. No use handing out leaflets or putting up posters, students won’t take any notice and most don’t care either. Often when i was in college, people were telling me how much they drank the night before and how hung over they were, it was if they were boasting about it, it was an achievement to them. I still see this today when im in work, but its always the lads who are about 18/19. So it’s not just students, its young people in general, its there attitude towards drink, that’s what needs to changed, not the closing of the Dome during the day or the banning of Christmas day......

Does anyone have any more news on the lad who was in the accident?

Freddie59

angry_fox wrote:

In all fairness people, maybe students need to be better educated about alcohol. No use handing out leaflets or putting up posters, students won’t take any notice and most don’t care either. Often when i was in college, people were telling me how much they drank the night before and how hung over they were, it was if they were boasting about it, it was an achievement to them. I still see this today when im in work, but its always the lads who are about 18/19. So it’s not just students, its young people in general, its there attitude towards drink, that’s what needs to changed, not the closing of the Dome during the day or the banning of Christmas day......

Does anyone have any more news on the lad who was in the accident?

Very fair and accurate points.:) I know I'm going slightly off-topic, but on last nights's Late Late Show they were debating drink-driving, and Derek Davies (the RTE presenter) actually got it spot on. He said that the problem in Ireland at the minute is that drinking (or alcohol abuse) is cherished in this country.....from the top down. And he's dead right - as are you. It's the 'I can drink so many pints' mentality that has us where we are. But we have to start somewhere, and a restriction of alcohol sales on campus seems as good a place as any to start.;) Still no news AFAIK. Spare a prayer for both him and the lorry driver over Christmas.:(

merlante

Freddie59 wrote:

Very fair and accurate points.:) I know I'm going slightly off-topic, but on last nights's Late Late Show they were debating drink-driving, and Derek Davies (the RTE presenter) actually got it spot on. He said that the problem in Ireland at the minute is that drinking (or alcohol abuse) is cherished in this country.....from the top down. And he's dead right - as are you. It's the 'I can drink so many pints' mentality that has us where we are. But we have to start somewhere, and a restriction of alcohol sales on campus seems as good a place as any to start.;) Still no news AFAIK. Spare a prayer for both him and the lorry driver over Christmas.:(

Hmm... they weren't fair and accurate points when I made them.

He says: "...it's not just students, its young people in general, its there attitude towards drink, that's what needs to changed, not the closing of the Dome during the day or the banning of Christmas day..."

This is exactly the point I have been making. It's our drinking patterns and our attitudes to drink that have to change, not closing bars or restricting the supply of drink. Young people will go mad if they are going to go mad, and trying to restrict their access to drink or whatever is futile. And as was said, it ain't just students that are getting drunk and disorderly.

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

Hmm... they weren't fair and accurate points when I made them.

He says: "...it's not just students, its young people in general, its there attitude towards drink, that's what needs to changed, not the closing of the Dome during the day or the banning of Christmas day..."

This is exactly the point I have been making. It's our drinking patterns and our attitudes to drink that have to change, not closing bars or restricting the supply of drink. Young people will go mad if they are going to go mad, and trying to restrict their access to drink or whatever is futile. And as was said, it ain't just students that are getting drunk and disorderly.

Can you please clarify what you meant by the 'rabble' remark? Was this aimed at the sector of the population who may not have had the privilege of a Third Level education.......and are you classing them as 'rabble' because of this? Who exactly are the 'rabble' that you are writing about?

(from your earlier response: "From what I've read on here, it's just as well the rabble aren't on charge of colleges/universities, or all social activities would be banned and they'd all become large, glorified secondary schools.")

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

This is exactly the point I have been making. It's our drinking patterns and our attitudes to drink that have to change, not closing bars or restricting the supply of drink. Young people will go mad if they are going to go mad, and trying to restrict their access to drink or whatever is futile. And as was said, it ain't just students that are getting drunk and disorderly.

Agreed......but the rest of the populace can't dodge work to go to the factory pub in order to get sloshed from 11:00am onwards. The majority of posters here have agreed that something has to be done to curtial it. And let's face it - a certain sector of third level students do little to qualify your defence of this behaviour.;)

Rollo Tamasi

the college have a obligation with regards the education of their students, a moral obligation if you will, this is certainly not aided by having an on campus watering hole. Its nuts that they have a pub and not a creche (but would they make as much money from a creche...........).

Freddie59

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

the college have a obligation with regards the education of their students, a moral obligation if you will, this is certainly not aided by having an on campus watering hole. Its nuts that they have a pub and not a creche (but would they make as much money from a creche...........).

Agreed Rollo. I again state that I am not anti-student but the idea of on-campus pubs is, IMO, ridiculous and a disaster waiting to happen.:mad:

merlante

Fair enough, but anyone who has been a student in any college or university in Ireland could not imagine a college experience without the college bar. It is a place, along with the canteen, that people gather in between classes -- not necessarily to drink. It is a place where students can socialise with other students, as opposed to general pubs. It's a place on campus, where students can go drinking with a little bit more safety and security, particularly if they are not from the town/city, than a typical city centre pub. It's becomes the focus of many organised activities: bands, quizzes, etc.

In short, it is one of the things that makes the college campus a place for socialising rather than merely a place of education. Socialising has been a part of the college experience for as long as there have been colleges. Not just in Ireland. If you think that colleges shouldn't have bars or shouldn't cultivate a social atmosphere, etc., then you are the rabble I was talking about that is trying to ruin colleges and universities when you know in your heart of hearts that no lives will be saved and no extra degrees will be earned.

Why push students off the campus and in to city centre pubs, off licences, etc.?

18 year olds are allowed to drink. Since we agree that it's not just students that can behave badly, but all young people, why are we complaining about student bars -- why not complain about the minimum drinking age instead?

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

If you think that colleges shouldn't have bars or shouldn't cultivate a social atmosphere, etc., then you are the rabble I was talking about that is trying to ruin colleges and universities when you know in your heart of hearts that no lives will be saved and no extra degrees will be earned.

Ah finally. Your true feelings towards your fellow countrymen/women who do not happen to agree with you are revealed. I think the last ones to deploy that term were the colonial English. And you are a product, I presume, of the aforementioned educational system which is littered with watering holes? I, like others posting on this thread, are concerned about health and safety issues, along with the main reason for attending college - to be educated.

Instead you advocate what borders on childishness - drinking when you should be receiving an education; ignoring the threat to health and safety and the general well-being of students, and finally classing those who disagree with you as rabble.

You appear to be a snob of sorts and slightly confused. Classing people who choose to act in a responsible manner as rabble? - maybe next time there's a discussion you could refrain from insulting people and stick to debating the issue at hand.

Maharet

I can't believe ye think closing the pub on campus would make any difference to the amount of students getting so drunk as to end up like the poor lad that started this whole thread. When I was in college, many people would be in the bar for lunch, to play pool, to catch up with friends from other courses while they had a few hours in between lectures or were finished for the day. I never saw anyone in the student bar during the day to be anything more than slightly tipsy at most.

The student bars in a college/university/IT are there as an outlet for students. Many societies organise events in the bars. If anything the bars encourage more sensible drinking as you're just there for one drink during the day and sometimes not even drinkin alcohol at all. Your friends will act as a regulator too, because if they aren't staying in there for more than one, then you won't either. This would be the majority of people in there. The kind of idiotic drinking you are all talking about will happen regardless of whether student bar is open all day or not. Students looking to get that drunk will just go to the local off license buy a cheap crate of beer and end up more pissed than they would have been if they'd stayed in the bar all night. Also, although students are richer than they used to be they still have no where near the amount of money needed to stay drinking in the bar all day and night.

Also as was pointed out by others, the choice is theirs. They are adults, the chose to go to college, if they choose to drink all day in a student bar that's also their choice. The vast, vast majority of students have neither the money nor the inclination to be that much of a piss artist all the time. And as I said they choose to go there to attain a particular degree, there are very few that would throw away that chance by being constantly on the beer to the point where they may fail exams. College is some of the most memorable and fun years of your life, students should be given the freedom to learn, not just their course but about life in general, there is plenty of time for them to be tied to the monotony of the 9-5 working day. The student bar is a part of this, along with their friends, the college societies and clubs, college events, opportunities to travel. All these things are what make college great, take away the bar and you take away the natural hub of the college campus.

Rollo Tamasi

Maharet wrote:

take away the bar and you take away the natural hub of the college campus.

i don't think the college bar is the the hub of any educational building, but you have valid points as does everyone. I still feel that the college is best servered by a Dome which would only sell drink after 6pm. The college has 4 canteens and a pool room so it's not like it's deprived of recreational facilities. The choice is the student's at the end of the day and if they wan't to drink during the day then let them, i never have had a pint while in college during hours and never will. I don't think its the time or place for it.

Maharet

That's fair enough if you don't want to do that yourself. Plenty do though.

I also meant the social hub, as opposed to the hub of the educational end of things. I know myself from those (glory) days that the ability to go into the pub for a drink during the day was nice, especially since a lot of courses have a half day during the week, on different days, this isn't WIT I'm talking about, I didn't go there. But of course you can't really close one student bar without closing them all.

Also, even though I think it should be kept open all day like a normal pub, opening at six is a bit late as a lot of courses finish at four, from my experience and since it can vary from day to day and course to course it would be better just to leave it open all day make people make up their own minds to go in there or not.

Just thinking of another thing a couple of people mentioned, the education about drink. Students know well enough the danger of drink, but when they see their parents and families getting just as pissed as they do, it's a bit hypocritical...everyone needs to change their drinking habits, before students and in a wider way all younger people will have any respect for the "education" they're extoling. It's a bit much having older people going on about how bad drink is and drink in moderation when most of them are just as bad when they head out themselves of a Friday and Saturday night!

merlante

Freddie59 wrote:

Ah finally. Your true feelings towards your fellow countrymen/women who do not happen to agree with you are revealed. I think the last ones to deploy that term were the colonial English. And you are a product, I presume, of the aforementioned educational system which is littered with watering holes? I, like others posting on this thread, are concerned about health and safety issues, along with the main reason for attending college - to be educated.

Instead you advocate what borders on childishness - drinking when you should be receiving an education; ignoring the threat to health and safety and the general well-being of students, and finally classing those who disagree with you as rabble.

You appear to be a snob of sorts and slightly confused. Classing people who choose to act in a responsible manner as rabble? - maybe next time there's a discussion you could refrain from insulting people and stick to debating the issue at hand.

I indulged you by bringing back up the word 'rabble' in order to give you the chance to get your big indignant post out of the way.

You obviously have some issue with class or student jealousy, or whatever, I don't care. You are too quick to go off topic when you see one single word you don't like and are too quick to ignore valid points, to the extent that when other people make exactly the same points as I was making, you agree with them wholeheartedly.

The reason why I used the word 'rabble', and I wasn't being entirely serious in using that term, (as should be obvious) is that I don't think that people who have never gone to college should be making decisions about how college campuses are run. They don't know why things are the way they are. They may not understand the social and educational dynamic of college campuses.

As I said before, the vast majority of people who have been in college, throughout the British isles and beyond would NOT be in favour of removing the college bar, for all the reasons that myself and Maharet have outlined, and many more besides. College campuses have been the way they are for a long, long time, and I would not appreciate armchair activists seeing that a young lad has fallen under a lorry and then somehow using that as a justification for closing college bars. You haven't considered all the arguments, as is becoming more and more obvious with each post you make.

Now if you can restrain yourself from being offended by any other words I've used, can we keep this on topic?

Mossy Monk

Maharet wrote:

If anything the bars encourage more sensible drinking

after you said this i decided not to take anything you said seriously

angry_fox

Waterford News & Star wrote:

A 20-year-old student, originally from Meath, remains in a stable condition in Cork University Hospital and is believed to have had a leg amputated as a result of injuries he sustained during the incident at 2.30am on Thursday.

He had been out with friends on the college’s ‘Christmas Day’ and was on John Street when a cattle lorry passed through the junction in the direction of The Mall.

The student jumped onto the draw-bar separating the cab of the lorry from the trailer and travelled on the vehicle as far as the Mall where he either slipped or tried to jump off.

He fell beneath the trailer as it was moving and was dragged for a distance, incurring serious back and leg injuries in the process. He was brought to Waterford Regional before being later transferred to Cork

Heres the rest of the story

Christmas Day is looking bad for next year, remember a girl was raped on the quay last year and four were arrested this year.

c - 13

angry_fox wrote:

Heres the rest of the story

Christmas Day is looking bad for next year, remember a girl was raped on the quay last year and four were arrested this year.

At least the arrests were down on last year, wasnt it some ridiculous number of arrests last year around 70 or something ?

Rollo Tamasi

merlante wrote:

I don't think that people who have never gone to college should be making decisions about how college campuses are run. They don't know why things are the way they are. They may not understand the social and educational dynamic of college campuses.

that's probably the most ridiclious thing i've heard since Bill Cosby gave an anti drugs lecture to childern. So merlante....if you don't understand something....then don't question it? Is that what your driving at? What are you? A fascist or something?

merlante

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

that's probably the most ridiclious thing i've heard since Bill Cosby gave an anti drugs lecture to childern. So merlante....if you don't understand something....then don't question it? Is that what your driving at? What are you? A fascist or something?

You're right, I must be a fascist, that is the only logical explanation. What am I but a fascist for thinking that people who haven't been to college don't know a damn thing about how college campuses are run!

By all means question it, learn about it, investigate the role that a college bar plays on a college campus; think the whole thing through. But don't just sit there and make pronouncements from your armchair about what should and should not be on college campuses without any knowledge of what you are talking about.

None of the good points in favour of the college bar have been addressed. Instead people are more concerned with labelling people fascists, or confused or irresponsible or whatever. Nobody has given any evidence or rationale to show there are more deaths, injuries, incidents of alcoholism, violence, etc. involving students with bars on college campuses than if there weren't.

All I am hearing is opinion pieces from those who were never students, like "companies don't have bars so why should colleges" and "students are there to be educated not to drink". If you were ex-students, you wouldn't be calling for an end to student bars, during the day or otherwise, because you would realise what a valuable social function the campus bar serves.

How many ex-students are speaking out against college bars? I doubt you'll many. Give me a single piece of evidence to say that the Dome contributes to a lower number of degrees or a higher level of student drinking. (given that students will be drinking somewhere anyway)

Are any of you actually blaming the Dome for this guys death, btw?

Rollo Tamasi

You're right, I must be a fascist,

Ok, glad that's sorted.

But don't just sit there and make pronouncements from your armchair about what should and should not be on college campuses without any knowledge of what you are talking about.

But i do have a knowledge of what i'm talking about...i'm a student studying at WIT who is regularly in the Dome....are you? Maybe your a bit out of touch with reality yourself? Long is the day when students had meangiful debates during college hours while drinking congac...actually wait....did that ever happen...probably not.

If you were ex-students, you wouldn't be calling for an end to student bars, during the day or otherwise, because you would realise what a valuable social function the campus bar serves.

You'd swear this was 1920's Germany with students uprising against the Weimar Republic or something?

Are any of you actually blaming the Dome for this guys death, btw?

Nope, we don't even know if he was drinking there anyway. But it's blatantly clear that they just care about the cash registers and not the moral obligiation of catering for a thousand or so students.

Maharet

Mossy Monk wrote:

after you said this i decided not to take anything you said seriously

I like the way you didn't quote the rest of what I said to qualify this. As I said if you are in the bar with your mates for a pint during the day you're not going to stay there drinking all day as the majority of them won't want to. That's my experience anyway, you go in for one or two pints, relax for a bit then head off to do work. That's how it was when I was in college anyway.

angry_fox

Just read the latest edition of the news & star. Looks like the lad is going to keep his leg.

c - 13

angry_fox wrote:

Just read the latest edition of the news & star. Looks like the lad is going to keep his leg.

Is it mean to think they should chop it off anyway so he doesnt do something stupid like that again ?