ethernet/web controlled pvr alternative to sky+

Synkro

Hi,

I am looking for an alternative to the sky+ pvr solution. I would like a stand alone settop box with a big hard disk and usb host to accept an external usb caddy. Also would like an ethernet port, and a fully controllable web interface to schedule recordings, so i can controll it from any pc in the house and also from the office with port redirection at firewall/router. The pvr would also need to recieve latest epg channel data for IRELAND/UK channels (probably via internet). Ideally the recorded shows would then be hosted on the pvr and could then be streamed or ftp'd to another pc. The pvr would also need to control the sky sat reveiver, so some sort of IR control. I have seen the phantom accessory for the sky box which learns your dvr/vcr ir commands and initiates recordings from sky epg. BUT i have read that the 'start recording' commands sent from the sky box can often be too late resulting in the first 5mins of the show being missed. Can anyone verify this? and finally i would like to be able to send sms requests to the pvr to schedule recordings from my mobile phone.

Feature wish list...


*web interface
*ethernet port
*free epg
*ability to change sky box channels
*fully upgradeable harddisk
*usb host to accomadate external mass storage devices
*mpeg2 recording
*automatic mpeg4 transcoding
*ability to schedule from mobile phone via sms (or maybe wap, or sms2email commands)

Anyone have any ideas?


Also what is the best way of connecting sky box to external recording equipment? The sky plus box records the raw mpeg video stream, but from what ive read, external recorders loose a lot of picture quality because of the digital->analog conversion via scart/composite/svideo connections. Is this just an exaggeration or is the quality of the analog recordings really that noticable?

which is the best audio/video output connection to use?

tnx in advance!

adrian

Synkro

heres an interesting link.
''How to Enable web based viewing and remote control over your Tivo.''


http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2004/09/how_to_enable_w.html

Mossy Monk

Synkro wrote:

is the quality of the analog recordings really that noticable?

i record from my Sky+ box to DVD recorder via scart with RGB on and tbh i dont notice a huge drop in quality. only time i do is when i put more than 2 hours worth of television on the dvd.

as for the rest of what you asked it is right over my head

Synkro

thanks mossymonk,

I find that 4hrs per dvd is quite good. Theres a 6hr option too, but thats russbish. especially for sports action scenes.


Im looking into buying Snapstreams Beyond Tv software.



It seems to do a lot of what i want. But is a bit too commercial for my liking

Heres a good review of it

http://www.byopvr.com/Sections+index-req-printpage-artid-12.html

Has an interesting 'skip ads' feature which looks too good to be true.

watty

Only the Sky+ does the Sky pay channels.

For FTA channels you can use a PC with a Satellite card (does everything imaginable but not easy to setup)

Dr. Dish featured several good Satellite PVRs a few months ago. Reelbox sounded best.

Yopu can get a cheap one and add more tuners, up to 400G hard drive, DVD writer, Digital Terrestrial or even Cable etc later.

Has PC interfaces and even a good ANALOG video in to conver VHS or analog Camcorder to HD for Wifi Streaming or making a DVD.

http://www.rdi-sat.com/f2/viewtopic.php?p=230041&sid=c182ac41cde6bd424acf39785d9317f3

Alternatively a HD/DVD based PVR connected to an ordinary Digibx. Quality is much lower than Sky+, PC Card or Reelbox, the digital is converted to analog and reconvert and re-encoded to Digital.

The Reelbox, Sky+ and PC solutions give playback IDENTICAL to live.

Zaphod

http://www.cadsoft.de/vdr/

Just spotted there is even a plugin to allow a PC to drive a 36V actuator
http://ventoso.org/luca/vdr/index.html

cormacl

I think dreambox will provide most of what you need.. Ethernet, web interface, PVR feature. http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/

I've attached some screenshots of the web interface.

The 7xxx series can host a hard drive. the 500 series can't but can be made to mount network shares through the Ethernet interface. I have a 5620 (now discontinued) that is essentially the 500-series with 2 CI slots and 1 card slot as well as an RF-out.

There are supposedly new models in the pipeline all of which can take hard-drives.. an updated 500-series and 6000-series (replacing the 5600/5620) will take laptop-size IDE drives.

The EPG can be viewed on the web interface and used to program timer events on a single click.. these events can be set to switch to the given channel or record. The most detailed EPG data tends to come from European stations, RTL, Pro7 etc.. the Sky channels only broadcast now&next programs in standard DVB EPG. Skys own EPG is proprietary and not accessible on non-Sky receivers. this may change next Year as the Beeb & ITV hammer out their Freeview equivalent for Satellite.

There is also a means of changing channel, grabbing screen shots of the current channel and even displaying OSD messages. Very handy if you are accessing remotely. There are a few good PC packages available.. Dreamset is one I use to save off th channel layout and edit from the PC, then download the settings. Also I use a programme called Flash widard Pro to download new images in a minute over the LAN.

As mentioned, mine is a 5620 and has no hard drive.. i mount one over a wireless network via CIFS (windows share/samba) from my Linux server.. record and playback is good with occasional frame loss.

Unless its a restriction of network mounted drives, the solution does not have the near perfect forward/reverse motion that Sky+ has or the pause live TV behaviour... its really just a record and playback facility with fast forwarding/reverse that skips frames rather than play faster.. someone may correct me if this is not the case with the 7xxx series that have the internal drive option.

While recording, you can switch channel to other channels in the same transponder. There are no twin-tuner versions available yet.. the 7025 (as yet unreleased) will have a single tuner shipped but will support an extra tuner (sat, cable or digital terrestrial)

the boxes come with manufacturer images but can be flashed with a whole series of variant images. In my case, Gemini seems the most useful for the 5620.

The receivers are Linux-based and the entire OS & application software is open source.. so they tend to have a fairly regular updates with new features and bug fixes.

Ro-76

I use gbpvr (www.gbpvr.com). I use my PC in the spare room to do all the recording etc, and control it ffom a hauppauge MediaMVP in the livingroom via Cat5. It works a dream and means that I don't need to have a bulky/noisy box in the livingroom. I now have 2 tuner cards, so simultaneous recording and I can log into it to do webscheduling. It downloads the EPG in xmltv format every night, and I now have it setup to transcode the videofiles to iPod video format, so I can watch my TV shows on my iPod. There are no running costs whatsoever, and ther reliability is excellent. Occasionally if my router is a bit taxed downloading large/many files, it can crash, but very rarely.

Ro

watty

The dream box is a more hobbyist adaptible receiver.

I use Gypsy Media Digiguide for PC EPG/ Progam guide which compared to RTE guide is cheap at 17 Euro a year.

watty

Ro-76 wrote:

I use gbpvr www.gbpvr.com.

Ro

The link dosn't work, even without the ")"

http://www.cadsoft.de/vdr/

Just spotted there is even a plugin to allow a PC to drive a 36V actuator
http://ventoso.org/luca/vdr/index.html

This would work with Skystar / Hauppauge / Technotrend?
I think thats what the siemens /fujitsu is.

While I have a PC based PVR myself I think the DVBs market has matured and there are now many better "plug in and go" commercial solutions that make Sky+ look obsolete.

The only advantage of Sky+ or Sky and a analog input HD/DVD PVR is the Pay TV channels.

Yes I know the Dreambox can take a real Sky card, but not properly and it may not work tomorrow. AS regrads Sky it is best bought as a FTA, then it seems poor value compared to the newer systems with DVD writers, Wifi, Bluetooth, Ethernet, multiple modular tuners etc..

I think the MS "Media Centre" idea is a dead duck now and I'm not too impressed after a week of fiddling around with the stuff on Ubuntu Linux* compared with going and buying a box that plugs into all the cables and works when you press the "on" button.

*(Using UNIX since 1986 and Linux since 1998)

byte

The gbpvr.com link works for me. maybe the site went over its traffic allowance or something.

watty

Fine now.. Well it happens. All the time with www.qsl.net actually

krissrodriguez

Dreambox is the one U want, bear in mind that U need some time to set up all the functions that U've asked for, but is worthed, U can even watch programs over the network, record into internal HDD or on your computers hdd, U can add lots of plugins for it, epg, radio over the internet, games, weather forecast etc.

bk

A UK or US Tivo can be made to do most of what you want, except:
- USB host functionality
- automatic mpeg4 transcoding (however this can be done in conjunction with a PC).

I do everything else with my Tivo at the moment on NTL, but it would also work with satellite.

My buddy uses MythTV to also do this sort of stuff, it is tricky to setup, but brilliant when working.

Synkro

bk wrote:

A UK or US Tivo can be made to do most of what you want, except:
- USB host functionality
- automatic mpeg4 transcoding (however this can be done in conjunction with a PC).

I do everything else with my Tivo at the moment on NTL, but it would also work with satellite.

My buddy uses MythTV to also do this sort of stuff, it is tricky to setup, but brilliant when working.

Hey, what are your impressions of the TIVO, they seem easy to work with. Ive been using a pc with hauppauge pvr250 for recording in mpeg2 then encoding to mpeg4, but would prefer something more solidstate. Are they easy to come accross in Ireland? Do they come with Lan ports for transfering the videos to a pc? Also if I find one with the lifetime epg subscription is there a problem dialling up to the uk for epg updates?

watty

The Tivo is trailing edge technology no longer marketed in UK, never marketed in Ireland and losing contracts in USA.

Unless you pick highest quality a VHS beats the quality. The best quality is comparable to my S-VHS (I had a Tivo).

Customising for Irish channels more awkward than any other PVR option.

The user interface is good though.

The Tivo is an aging Linux based computer with HDD and one analog tuner. If you already have a PC with big enough HDD and PVR sowtware/hardware it is better. It is much better if you add a Satellite PCI card for FTA Satellite channels.

Dreambox or "Reel Box" are far better solutions than MythTV (a DIY Tivo) or Tivo.

SRB

Disagree about Tivo there Watty - the pictures from mine are superior to my SVHS. It is also possible to add additional tuners to Tivo's, I know one guy with 6 on his, and it can be networked and remotely controlled. Details are on the Tivo sites (or can be found on e-bay as DIY kits the odd time). I had no trouble at all getting them to configure my channel line up for me and it's rather unique in that the Tivo is in NI, but uses Kippure for TV3, which on NI postcodes (how they create the channel line up) is usually defaulted to the RSL channel in Derry. The only niggles I've had are that while my Prototype Tivo had a UHF/VHF tuner the one they sent me when they launched in the UK was UHF only and the EPG doesn't update the same way the Sky EPG does (it's not "live"). In many ways it's a shame Sky decided to go off and do it on their own in the end as I have yet to find any PVR as user friendly as the Tivo, I mean my Mrs can use the Tivo with ease but I wouldn't let her near a Dreambox. What Tivo should have done (IMO) was adapted the software for use by PC based PVR applications, it would be seriously hard to beat if you could buy and use it off the shelf.

watty

That is definately a hobbyists solution, not for ordinary user. You can't buy a Tivo off the shelf in Ireland at all, and it takes expertise to make it go. That is point I'm making.

It also illustrates another issue in An Post's refusal to publicise the Irish Post codes, which have existed for some time. Apparently it gives An Post a competitive advantage in targeting Direct mail, that no-one else knows the post codes.

Synkro

Thanks for your opinions guys. There really is no beating the PC with pvr250, big harddisk, and remote desktop sharing. So Ive decided to go ahead with a pc solution. I plan to buy a nice 19" component chasis and build into it a pc/linux os with 2 pvr250 uhf/vhf terrestrial mpeg2 tuners and hopefully a pci FTA card aswell. This is the case I have my eye on...

http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/origenae-x15e-htpc-case-wtft-touchscreen-and-ir-module-silver/cName/htpc-cases?osCsid=91fd8554f5356f6e05c2eea24e04d6bd

it has a 7" touchscreen tft mounted at the front and plenty of room inside for expansion.

My only concern is the noise created from the fans, Im tempted to go with a low spec fan-less mini-itx board, but It would probably be useless for any sort of transcoding to mpeg4.

Also what would you reccomend as a viewing monitor? Plasma tvs are big and bright with good contrast but the issues with image BURN-IN frighten me! I was in pcworld and they have an advent home theatre/pvr package which includes a 37" Samsung LCD, the picture was really imressive and crisp. Dunno if it was using a hdmi input from the pc or whether it was some sort of OLED display, but it really looked good.

Which is best Plasma/LCD for my pvr build? Also is it better to feed the display with digital-vga or composite output when playing back recorded tv progs...

Thanks!

Adrian

ps

Anyone interested in a group-buy on above case?

SRB

That is definately a hobbyists solution, not for ordinary user. You can't buy a Tivo off the shelf in Ireland at all, and it takes expertise to make it go. That is point I'm making.

---

Well, to be fair, at the end of the day, building any system yourself is a hobbyist solution ! Don't think you can buy Tivo's anywhere in the UK either for that matter. Always wondered what the issue was with Irish Post Codes.

adrian.s

Synkro wrote:

<snip>
This is the case I have my eye on...

http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/origenae-x15e-htpc-case-wtft-touchscreen-and-ir-module-silver/cName/htpc-cases?osCsid=91fd8554f5356f6e05c2eea24e04d6bd

it has a 7" touchscreen tft mounted at the front and plenty of room inside for expansion.

My only concern is the noise created from the fans, Im tempted to go with a low spec fan-less mini-itx board, but It would probably be useless for any sort of transcoding to mpeg4.
<snip>

It's a nice case but damm it's pricey for what you get. Another possibility to consider is buying the cheapest ugliest case possible and putting all your tuner cards in there. Then building a mini-itx box to take the mpeg2 (or 4) streams from that box to your TV. This would mean that all your hardware lives outside the main tv room and you can extend it as much as you like. Should work out at about the same cost.

I"ve built a PVR based on Myth and it sits in an Ahanix Dvine 5 case under the TV. Aside from being bulky, and not the best use of space inside, I'm still struggling to get it completely quiet. But I'm now planning to move all this into the study and just end up with the one mini-itx box in the living room that connects to it. I thought initially that buying the really nice case and sitting under the TV would be the way to go, but if you really need to expand these things noise and heat become big issues.

HTH,

Adrian.

watty

Synkro wrote:

My only concern is the noise created from the fans, Im tempted to go with a low spec fan-less mini-itx board, but It would probably be useless for any sort of transcoding to mpeg4.

My PVR is at bottom of garden with Network and IR eye via two CAT5 and also coax RF in and various analog / coax / rf / video outs

Synkro wrote:

Also what would you reccomend as a viewing monitor? Plasma tvs are big and bright with good contrast but the issues with image BURN-IN frighten me! I was in pcworld and they have an advent home theatre/pvr package which includes a 37" Samsung LCD, the picture was really imressive and crisp. Dunno if it was using a hdmi input from the pc or whether it was some sort of OLED display, but it really looked good.

Which is best Plasma/LCD for my pvr build? Also is it better to feed the display with digital-vga or composite output when playing back recorded tv progs...

Thanks!

Adrian

All Terrestrial is 25i, this is totally manky on a 60Hz to 85Hz refresh VGA screen, unless the VGA is 100Hz* you need a true TV out feed, ideally S-Video rather than composite.

Almost all DVD and Satellite is 25i also. So same appllies.

LCD / Plasma is still poorer pastel shades than CRT, but that is up to you. Also since fixed pixel size it does not handle 4:3 well if WS or vice versa. Satellite DVB is in various resolutions, only some channels will match LCD/Plasma native pixels.

You pay serious money to get true HD LCD or projector that will handle all normal Satellite resolutions and Terrestrial 4:3 (no WS on terrestrial) and DVD or Satellite Ws and 4:3.

I use a 28" 4:3 CRT that has true WS mode for animorphic 16:9. Half the price (300 Euro) of a decent 28" WS CRT (nearly as big a picture in WS and MUCH bigger in 4:3 mode).

* I don't know of many VGA Monitors that do 100Hz. My own 17" is limited to 800x 600 at 100Hz, though normally I use it at 1600 x 1200 @60Hz. Most cheap LCD monitors are a fixed 60Hz or 85Hz.

Synkro

That ahanix dvine case looks sweet.

http://www.ahanix.com/dvine6.html

>Adrian.S
Does myth support the VFD display? Ive tried to load myth before but gave up in desperation. I must look into it again and give it another go. Failing that, a copy of xp with 'wintvcap' and 'wintvcapschedular' works freat with the pvr250 for command line recordings. Only problem is i cant stream the 'live' tv over to my laptop while its recording, instead i have to wait till the pvr250 has storrped writing to the mpg file then share it out on the network. I have little experience with linux and not sure which distribution to load with myth, which did you go for?

>Watty
I think the samsung 40" is fixed at 75hz (1368x768)which isnt too bad. It has dvi,vga and hdmi inputs aswell. Its not cheap, its in powercity for powercity for €2500 compared to cheapest 42" plasma at around €1500.

http://www.powercity.ie/test.asp?par=10-12-40R41

Ruling out CRTs (lack of space) I think the lcd wins over the plasma. The 1368x768 res will work well with the hdi output from the pc especially when sitting at a distance from the screen

SRB

Only problem is i cant stream the 'live' tv over to my laptop while its recording, instead i have to wait till the pvr250 has storrped writing to the mpg file then share it out on the network

---

The VLC media player will stream a file still being recorded by the pvr350 over a network, so I assume it'd do the trick for the pvr250 too.

watty

ProgDVB will stream Live Satellite TV no problem or playback or recording. PCI Satellite Card. You can fit more than one Satellite card.

Much better quality than Analog tuner card as the playback is an exact copy of the live digital stream. There is even a way to use your digibox card (only needed for viewing, not recording), but it my not work tomorrow. A Digibox is needed for the card to be in most of the time or it misses keys and stops working till left in Digibox again for 4 to 20 hrs.

watty

Synkro wrote:

>Watty
I think the samsung 40" is fixed at 75hz (1368x768)which isnt too bad. It has dvi,vga and hdmi inputs aswell. Its not cheap, its in powercity for powercity for €2500 compared to cheapest 42" plasma at around €1500.

http://www.powercity.ie/test.asp?par=10-12-40R41

Ruling out CRTs (lack of space) I think the lcd wins over the plasma. The 1368x768 res will work well with the hdi output from the pc especially when sitting at a distance from the screen

75Hz is better than 60Hz or 85Hz for DVB/Analog PAL, but not as good as 50 or 100. It will be poorer picture quality on movement than a real refresh of 50Hzp or 25i

adrian.s

Synkro wrote:

>Adrian.S
Does myth support the VFD display? Ive tried to load myth before but gave up in desperation. I must look into it again and give it another go. Failing that, a copy of xp with 'wintvcap' and 'wintvcapschedular' works freat with the pvr250 for command line recordings. Only problem is i cant stream the 'live' tv over to my laptop while its recording, instead i have to wait till the pvr250 has storrped writing to the mpg file then share it out on the network. I have little experience with linux and not sure which distribution to load with myth, which did you go for?

Yip it does, though I must confess I haven't really bothered to get it working. You'll need to get LCDProc installed & up and running, then there's an option in the mythfrontend to output to it. The mythv-users mail alias has a good few people discussing their experience with this topic.

You really should consider a pvr500 card if you want the live Tv and recording functionality. It's not too much more expensive than the 250 if you were thinking of upgrading in the first place.

In terms of distro, I used Ubuntu. But if you like, there's a terrifc site dedicated to getting myth up and running on fedora here:

http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/

I fell down though on the first hurdle coz the fedora distro didn't properly recognise SATA drives at the time and ended up going down the Ubuntu route, but the content was still 90% relevant. Knoppix is also a good if you want to see what it's like without actually installing anything

Adrian.

watty

I prefer Ubuntu to the RedHat. Still horrid but a fair attempt.
SW RAID5 doesn't seem to work and it needs at least 256M on 1GHz or its like a dead slug. I can get XP Home to work as well as Win98 on 330MHz 256M, and even fairly good on 128M as long as all the un-needed services and Eyecandy are disabled.

I think Ubuntu bascally needs a better PC than XP for similar performance.

After spending two days on trying to get Myth working AT ALL on a Hauppauge Win TV card, I can agree that you need a good site.