The Budget

Dub13

What time is kick off....and what do you expect....?My top interest is any childcare package.

murphaph

Not sure of KO, it's not on RTE yet though....

I want a few things I earn an average enough industrial wage from what I hear and I DO NOT want any income-tax cuts. I want direct taxation to remain the same. I want the fcuking money to be spent wisely on things, that's all I want, not too much to ask eh?

Although I'm not a parent, I would like to see something done about childcare too-we've got to get imaginative in this area. I really want transport infrastructure, particularly rail based public transport in Dublin to be addressed, fast-tracking (sorry) the T21 schedule wrt. the Interconnector in particular. I want proper public services for everyone and en efficient public service to execute them. That's not too much of an ask from a private sector employee like myself who ultimately pay for the civil service.

I would really like to see increased government investment in university incubator sites to develop indigenous knowledge based businesses here in Ireland-we must focus on the future which will not be based around low-cost manufacturing as in the past. The government must take the lead on this.

V1llianous

It starts at 3.45 p.m. Coverage on RTE1 from 3.30 p.m.

It is expected to be 1 hour 15 minutes long - rather than the usual 45 mins.

Cork

What annoys me is that opposition spokepeople never find anything good to say on a budget.

You never get "well done" or "Good Idea".

tbh

Enda Kenny:"ahh, well done on the budget, Brian, it's a very good one"
Brian Cowen (surprised) : "Really, Enda, do you mean that?"
Enda Kenny: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

ArthurDent

Cork wrote:

What annoys me is that opposition spokepeople never find anything good to say on a budget.

You never get "well done" or "Good Idea".

They're politicians whadya expect - there is a general election in the next 12-18 months, why on earth would they say -well done. In their minds thats the same as saying - sure this lot are doing such a good job ye should vote them in again.

Culchie

Cork wrote:

What annoys me is that opposition spokepeople never find anything good to say on a budget.

You never get "well done" or "Good Idea".

Just as annoying though when government never say "whoops I did it again" or " I messed up "

murphaph

He just mentioned that in his introduction, wonder will VAT or VRT be reduced?

murphaph

Spending on infrastructure will be 5% of GNP-highest in the Union.

Elmo

You never get "well done" or "Good Idea".

LOL. Brilliant.

It's not the budget anymore It's keeping to targets.

The budget isn't going to be radical I don't think.

David McWilliam's article about the budget was dead on, the Budget is just a huge PR deal with little substance it not like its the 1980's or 1990's where the government own every company in the country.

therecklessone

Cork wrote:

What annoys me is that opposition spokepeople never find anything good to say on a budget.

You never get "well done" or "Good Idea".

Cuts both ways Cork. Care to point out the number of Private Members Bills that have passed successfully through the Dail in the history of the state?

therecklessone

Who's the bag lady sitting behind Bertie? :eek:

ro2

Live stream here:

http://www.heanet.ie/services/multimedia/videostreaming/oireachtas/dail.asx

Heathen

therecklessone wrote:

Who's the bag lady sitting behind Bertie? :eek:

haha Minister for PVC

Heathen

i missed the bit on Social Welfare what was it??

ArthurDent

1000 a year tax free each year for under 6's paid quarterly

Washout

ArthurDent wrote:

1000 a year tax free each year for under 6's paid quarterly

loving that...might try and convince the missus to have more....preferabbly triplets

Duiske

Really intelligent, constructive comment recklessone !!

Culchie

Washout wrote:

loving that...might try and convince the missus to have more....preferabbly triplets

Sure it's as good an excuse as any:)

Buy Mothercare shares.

Washout

Culchie wrote:

Sure it's as good an excuse as any:)

ahhhh need the money for my bankroll culchie

Culchie wrote:

Buy Mothercare shares.

lol thats a good one

ronbyrne2005

bet the cost of childcare goes up

mike65

Most social spending seems to be up around 8-9%, all indirect taxes frozen.
Small help for alternative energy production, a number of tax avoidence loopholes being abolished, lots of "section 23" type schemes being dropped over a 2 year period. Standard Rate income tax limits raised, all those on minimum wage will be out of the tax net.

Mike.

strassenwolf

Budget wrote:

Minister called on to clarify reports of 'lock in' on Budget night
Monday December 6th 2004

FINANCE Minister Brian Cowen has been called on to clarify weekend newspaper reports which claimed he hosted an illegal drinks party in a pub until 3am, after delivering his first Budget.

Reports in Sunday newspapers claimed that Mr Cowen, along with Malahide TD, G V Wright, former junior minister Dr Jim McDaid, and Senator Timmy Dooley, enjoyed post-budget drinks well into the early hours in the upstairs lounge of Foley's pub and restaurant, Merrion Row, Dublin.

Till receipts from the bar showed that five drinks - including gin and wine - were bought at 1.32am last Thursday morning at Foley's. Witnesses alleged that the minister left the pub premises at 3am and was brought home by his garda driver.

Under the law, the pub - which is a favourite with some political figures - should have been cleared by midnight on the night in question unless a special exemption licence had been taken out.

These licences must be applied for and granted in advance and licence holders must provide guests with a meal as well. However, Sunday newspapers claimed that no such licence was in force at the pub to cover this occasion.

Last night, a spokesperson for the Department of Finance could not confirm or deny the reports.

"I cannot confirm or deny this story. However, keep in mind that the minister had a very tough schedule the next day which started with a 7.30am meeting of the Parliamentary Party.

"He then also had to take questions from the public on the Budget on the Pat Kenny radio show at 11am," added the spokesperson.

However, Labour's Finance spokesperson, Joan Burton, said that the situation needs proper clarification.

"First of all, I would be very surprised if this report was true and I am not rushing to judge on this. It is possible to have a private party in a pub after hours if a licence has been granted.

"However, the minister needs to clarify the situation and I think that he should clarify it," she said.

Fine Gael Justice spokesperson, Jim O'Keeffe, said: "Similar to the speeding offences, it's important for members of the Government to be aware that the laws of the land apply to them in the same way as anyone else."

Isabel Hurley

But isn't 3 am too late for Jim McDaid and G.V.Wright to catch the last night bus? So I'd guess there's little truth in this story.

Cork

Brian Cowen has been called on to clarify weekend newspaper reports which claimed he hosted an illegal drinks party in a pub until 3am, after delivering his first Budget.

Lets grab our Torches & Pitchforks and go immeditely to the Dail.

Cronus333

To be honest im surprised they didn't re-introduce college fees to pay for the childcare benefits.

pretty*monster

What's that I hear?
No increase on booze or fag?!?

*does the happy smoker dance*
...
*wheezes*

billy the squid

personally for me it was an alright budget, no increase on cigarettes or booze. but you know the shops will jack up the price of the fags and the pubs will still jack up the price of a pint so what reall difference will it make.

Section 23 schemes to be abolished, don't know if this will be good for employment in the construction industry

and all these new fangled allowances for child care will do jack except create inflation within the childcare industry.

only thing good that came out of it really was the tax credits going up. union subscription going up by 50 percent as well as private rented accomodation allowance giong up. also blind/disabled person's tax credits going up as well.

should be a nice little lump sum come february or march when they are implemented.

one concern however, these massive increases in unemployment benefit might dissincentivise people to go out and work.

therecklessone

the Irish Independant wrote:

Minister called on to clarify reports of 'lock in' on Budget night
Monday December 6th 2004

FINANCE Minister Brian Cowen has been called on to clarify weekend newspaper reports which claimed he hosted an illegal drinks party in a pub until 3am, after delivering his first Budget.

Either clairvoyant journalists or poor journalism, how did they know of a post-budget lock in at least three days in advance?

:eek:

This €1000 a year for every child under 6, anybody care to explain how this can be included in a childcare package? Rather than risk the ire of stay at home parents they're handing the cash out regardless of childcare needs. Very poor IMO.

Dub13

therecklessone wrote:

This €1000 a year for every child under 6, anybody care to explain how this can be included in a childcare package? Rather than risk the ire of stay at home parents they're handing the cash out regardless of childcare needs. Very poor IMO.

They seem afraid to isolate any group of mothers so just came up with blanked payment.Which works out fine for me but if you are paying 800 plus a month for childcare its not exactly a huge payment.

The thing is this is not an election budget so except a huge giveaway next year.

Elmo

It's nice to see Mr. Cowen reintroduce Tax Benifits on Children after Mr. McCreevy got rid off them. Happy Xmas kids.

This Xbox 360 comes courtesy of the Irish Government.

Cork

Dub13 wrote:

but if you are paying 800 plus a month for childcare its not exactly a huge payment.

Its a help. The state has absolutely no obligation to provide childcare for children. The €1000 will help many out.

Rather than risk the ire of stay at home parents

Stay at home parents are providing a good service as well.

Their work deserved recognition.

Hobbes

therecklessone wrote:

Rather than risk the ire of stay at home parents they're handing the cash out regardless of childcare needs. Very poor IMO.

Until you have a child or two they become wallet eaters. 1000 is not much but it is better then 0.

therecklessone

My problem with the payment is that it is part of a childcare package but is not dependant on actually having to pay for childcare.

If you have a child you get the money. There are other ways to support the costs of raising a child (and they utilised the most obvious in raising childrens allowance). I don't begrudge parents the extra few quid, but I do think if you decide that your aim is to address the cost of childcare then you should target your spending to achieve just that.

Culchie

My main 'beef' with the budget is the extra payments to the unemployed. It was too generous.

In a society where there is a shortage of workers, no-one but no-one should be unemployed at the moment, other than through their own choice.


'Society' doesn't mean because some layabout is too lazy to get out of bed and get a job (thousands of them out there) that we should be paying for his upkeep, whilst we are up at 6.30am driving through crappy traffic, paying out taxes etc...

'Society' means that you give this same individual every chance, training, support etc.... to better his life and that of his family by full time employment.
If he throws that back in your (and the Irish people's) face .... then fair enough he made his own decision, but sorry, it's paddle your own canoe time.

'Society' means look after those who need it, sick, handicapped, elderly ..... not throwing money at layabouts.

Cork

Culchie wrote:

'Society' means look after those who need it, sick, handicapped, elderly ..... not throwing money at layabouts.

Yes. Long Term unemployed need training. Welfare is no answer,

Elmo

Yes. Long Term unemployed need training. Welfare is no answer,

Well then the government need to look a ways of reducing the number of Layabouts in this country. And they have had the best amount of time to look at new ways to deal with that part of our "society" for the last 7 years and have yet to come to any good answer or conclusion.

Sometimes it is hard for people to get into work. The long term unemployed will find it difficult because times have changed. Anyone over 50 who was made redundant in the last number of month will find it difficult to get a job because of their age.

And then their are the kind of people who talk about layabouts in this country but support Irish Ferries stance on bad working conditions, bad pay and unsoficated social practices.

Its time we all realised that their is alot more then just being lazy when people are unemployed.

Culchie

Elmo wrote:

Well then the government need to look a ways of reducing the number of Layabouts in this country. And they have had the best amount of time to look at new ways to deal with that part of our "society" for the last 7 years and have yet to come to any good answer or conclusion.

Sometimes it is hard for people to get into work. The long term unemployed will find it difficult because times have changed. Anyone over 50 who was made redundant in the last number of month will find it difficult to get a job because of their age.

And then their are the kind of people who talk about layabouts in this country but support Irish Ferries stance on bad working conditions, bad pay and unsoficated social practices.

Its time we all realised that their is alot more then just being lazy when people are unemployed.

Let's re-train the long term unemployed, offer them support and job opportunities, there's thousands of them. Put jobs on a plate.

But let's tackle the layabouts as well, they turn down work.....fine, slash the benefit.

Elmo

Let's re-train the long term unemployed, offer them support and job opportunities, there's thousands of them. Put jobs on a plate.

But let's tackle the layabouts as well, they turn down work.....fine, slash the benefit.

Hence the budget does really make much of a difference anymore it's what you actually Do with the money. Your policies will make the next election. IMO.

Cork

Let's re-train the long term unemployed, offer them support and job opportunities, there's thousands of them. Put jobs on a plate.

Vast amounts of money are being ploughed into FAS. But still we have long term unemployed.

Hobbes

therecklessone wrote:

but I do think if you decide that your aim is to address the cost of childcare then you should target your spending to achieve just that.

Well they allowed people who look after children (3 or less) to get tax relief from working. You could pay for an au pair.

Elmo

But still we have long term unemployed.

There are many who are unemployable. You can see them all over the place. That's me being pompous but it is true.

Also we are living in an era when many Scroungers (or what ever you call those kind of people) are saying

"... those immagrants and Refugees are gettin free housing, food and we're not ........ blah blah blah"

most of whom are living in housing provided by the government and which have rent subsadised by the government. Of course they pay their "RENT".

Hotblack Desiato

If you're 'unemployable' (whether through drugs, alcohol or sheer laziness) then you should be faced with a choice, either get your act together or get your dole cut off.
We're bringing in people (often very well qualified) from the corners of the globe to sweep the floors in Spar, because our dole moles think this work is beneath their dignity. FFS, this is nuts.

therecklessone

Hobbes wrote:

Well they allowed people who look after children (3 or less) to get tax relief from working. You could pay for an au pair.

Again, thats a form of childcare, as is getting a family member to mind your child.

I'm talking about situations were a child is cared for in the home by a parent, i.e. no money changes hands.

Hobbes

Then the parent gets an extra 1000 for nappies.

TempestSabre

Cork wrote:

Vast amounts of money are being ploughed into FAS. But still we have long term unemployed.

We have the lowest rate of unemployed we ever have, and your still moaning about the unemployed. FAS run vast amounts of training courses. All of the apprentices go through FAS, almost 30,000 of them at any one time. You'l always have long term unemployed for a wide range of social and economic reasons.

People would be better wondering how their taxes get mis spend on govt projects and high paid jobs that don't achieve anything, than picking on the poorest elements of society.

Elmo

I'm talking about situations were a child is cared for in the home by a parent, i.e. no money changes hands.

That's not to say that the stay at home parent doesn't have a very important job.

Mothers and Fathers that stay at home are giving up working in order to bring up their kids. I mean when two parent go out to work and earn between them 60,000 they will get tax releif

yet your telling me that because one stays at home and the earner in the house gets 30,000 that they are not intitled to this tax credit?

therecklessone

Elmo wrote:

That's not to say that the stay at home parent doesn't have a very important job.

When did I say different?

Elmo wrote:

Mothers and Fathers that stay at home are giving up working in order to bring up their kids. I mean when two parent go out to work and earn between them 60,000 they will get tax releif

yet your telling me that because one stays at home and the earner in the house gets 30,000 that they are not intitled to this tax credit?

Its not a tax credit, its a direct, non-taxable payment of €250 per quarter paid for every eligible child.

The Minister's preamble to his childcare package said the following:

Brian Cowen wrote:

A five-year strategy is being introduced to increase substantially the supply of childcare places and to assist parents with the costs of childcare.

Thats the aim of the package. So why give financial assistance to people in a childcare package who don't pay for childcare? Why am I not getting any cash, I'm single with no children so obviously won't be spending it on childcare, but what the hey...gimme gimme gimme...

Its an example of the people who (mis)control public spending because they are unwilling or unable to make an unpopular decision.

Here's what I said before:

therecklessone wrote:

If you have a child you get the money. There are other ways to support the costs of raising a child (and they utilised the most obvious in raising childrens allowance). I don't begrudge parents the extra few quid, but I do think if you decide that your aim is to address the cost of childcare then you should target your spending to achieve just that.

Elmo

Again, thats a form of childcare, as is getting a family member to mind your child.

I'm talking about situations were a child is cared for in the home by a parent, i.e. no money changes hands.

Your talking about stay at home parents. That don't get paid for minding their children. WHERE NO MONEY CHANGES HANDS.

That family have decided to have a stay at home parent. To differenciate between a family with two earners is totally unfair. Just because they get someone to mind their kids.

Again one family earns 30k with 1 parent working
while another family earns 60k with 2 parents working plus the cost of childcare.

Where is the difference? I would think the family earning 60k are better off.

Just because you don't pay for childcare doesn't mean children doesn't cost money.

A stay at home Mother or Father are providing FREE childcare, and are NOT dependent on the state.

My problem would be if everyone is entitled to the scheme. Also the scheme is for the Under 6's only. So this will only effect some parents.

therecklessone

Elmo wrote:

Your talking about stay at home parents. That don't get paid for minding their children. WHERE NO MONEY CHANGES HANDS.

I know, stop shouting.

Elmo wrote:

That family have decided to have a stay at home parent. To differenciate between a family with two earners is totally unfair. Just because they get someone to mind their kids.

No its not. The financial assistance is intended to alleviate the pressure on parents who have to pay for childcare, are you denying that? Look at the Minister's preamble to the childcare provisions again. Hell, the title of the payment (Early Childcare Supplement) should be a dead giveaway.

Elmo wrote:

Again one family earns 30k with 1 parent working
while another family earns 60k with 2 parents working plus the cost of childcare.

Where is the difference? I would think the family earning 60k are better off.

Thats point scoring and nothing else. Some people do better out of budgets than others, that the way budgets work. The Minister is supposed to identify spending requirements and target public spending to address those issues. So when he decided to take those on the minimum wage out of the tax net (for example) it wasn't so that they'd get one up on PAYE workers on the average industrial wage. Its the prioritisation of public spending.

Elmo wrote:

Just because you don't pay for childcare doesn't mean children don't cost money.

I won't deny that. But thats not why the Minister introduced the measures in this years budget.

Elmo

Early Childcare Supplement

Just because you beleive that Childcare is something that means phisically getting someone into provide childcare and paying for them doesn't mean that is what the Minister means.

Perhaps he has the good sence to understand that Childcare is not just about paying a cresh, but also about all the other aspects of Childcare. Staying at home cost perants just as much as paying for Creshs and childminders, perhaps even more.