Pokerevents SnGs - How would you improve them?

Fatboydim

I would like to play more of these, but there’s a reason I don’t and it’s the structure.

I understand that there are time pressures involved but 12min blinds [And the blinds really leap 25/50 50/100 100/200 200/400] with a 3K starting stack means that you are reduced to playing a form of bingo if you don’t hit hands early on. Also, as often seems to happen, a ten player SnG becomes an 11 or 12 player SnG with no flexibility in the blinds time or structure to accommodate these extra players.

I may have this wrong, but as I understand it the dealers are not paid to deal the SnGs and therefore get paid by the players [via tips] . So you’re really paying for rental of the table and chips. [The last one I played - an €100 at Sligo- the dealer made a very nice amount from the three of us] So if this is the case and there are empty tables around – what’s the problem with having a better structure? Personally I’d rather play a slightly higher reg fee if it came to it. Being a little cynical… isn’t it just to keep up the flow of players being knocked out of these SnGs?

I once played in one that had 11 players, and I never played a single hand until there were four players left. Went all in with a small pocket pair. Knocked a player out as I just had him covered with about 2K and finished third when I played my second hand shortly after. How is that value? Ok I finished in the money… but it seemed pointless. Two hands – I think I lasted in the game for around 30mins… So you can tell how rapid and foolish the play was. These rapid and foolish players however would play like that regardless of blind levels and are usually intoxicated so they would soon join another table and loose their money there.

So my question is two fold. Is there a gap in the market for good live Sit n Gos? And how could they be improved upon from the above?

Culchie

I've suggested a SnG night before.

I reckon if there was 10, 20, 30, 50 and 100 STT games in progress at any one time, it would pack the punters in.

Need to have a couple of spare tables so that the ones knocked out can starts another game within 5 mins or so.

Definitely a market for this I think. I'd just copy one of the internet companies blind structures, and have it at 12 mins each
There has to be an element of blinds pressure in SnG's otherwise they become like chess.

Fatboydim

Culchie wrote:

I've suggested a SnG night before.
I'd just copy one of the internet companies blind structures, and have it at 12 mins each
There has to be an element of blinds pressure in SnG's otherwise they become like chess.

12min blinds on internet fine... But not live. Even with dealers. Perhaps I prefer my poker to be closer to chess than bingo.

But I do agree that I think there could well be a market for this type of event.

Coillte_Bhoy

I may have this wrong, but as I understand it the dealers are not paid to deal the SnGs and therefore get paid by the players [via tips] .

Is that the case?? Never knew that. Feel bad now cos last time i played in Westwood, i cashed in two €50 SnG's and never thought to tip dealer. It is something a lot of newer players aren't aware of

ionapaul

Culchie wrote:

I've suggested a SnG night before.

I reckon if there was 10, 20, 30, 50 and 100 STT games in progress at any one time, it would pack the punters in.

Need to have a couple of spare tables so that the ones knocked out can starts another game within 5 mins or so.

Definitely a market for this I think. I'd just copy one of the internet companies blind structures, and have it at 12 mins each
There has to be an element of blinds pressure in SnG's otherwise they become like chess.

I think that's a great idea. More more likely to draw in the punters than running cash games (which I know Pokerevents cannot do) or the really high buy-in tournaments.

That said, as I'm off for Christmas on the 20th of December, I will probably make my first appearance at the Westwood for the winter freezeout. My parents can do without any presents this year...:)

roryc

and every year.... heehee!

Unlucky last night Paul. We both got into trouble and were severley shortstacked when we were down to two tables. I went out two hands after your queens got cracked. I had 1BB left! Pushed with A4 and amazingly flopped two pair but ran into J8 which caught an 8 on turn AND river! haha but I'm not complaining, I made 1 terrible move that cost me the night.

I got lucky with AQ aginst Leslie's AK to catch a straight on the river (its so nice to be on the good end for once!) but was so card dead the whole night! All the good cards were down your end of the table! QQ KK AK AQ.... unreal. My mistake was pushing half my stack into a 4 way unraised pot holding top pair Jacks with medium kicker. I ran into a well played AJ and was down to the felt. Ah well my own fault!

I manged to turn 5euro into 50 on roulette and then turned this 50 into 250 at the cash game! Was there till 4 in the morning but it was worth it!

Are you playing in the Sporting Emporium tomorrow night? I think it's a 50euro freezeout


EDIT: Nic won the double chance by the way

Lex

Good post Fatboy. I played 3 of these last night in the southcourt. Luckily in each game I managed to take chips of the loose or drunk guys earlier on to allow me to sit on my stack later when getting rags. But buy the time each game got down to 4 or 5 handed the blinds had it reduced to 2 card push/fold poker for the 2/3 players with only a few BBs left. Any ace or pair and the chips went in. There was no play involved at all again until it got heads up .

Twelve minute blinds is fine online because the blinds start at 10/20, 15/30, 25/50 etc. Here they started at 25/50 and doubled the whole way up.

Fatboydim wrote:

Also, as often seems to happen, a ten player SnG becomes an 11 or 12 player SnG with no flexibility in the blinds time or structure to accommodate these extra players.

This was the case in Lim too. One game we started with 8 players and by the time the first Level was over there was the old "Sure I'll squeeze in there lads" and we had 11 players at the table!

I like playing these games but would like if it didnt decend into crapshoot territory quite so quickly.

Amaru

Instead of level ups by time, why not have them go by orbits, like on Party?

Fatboydim

Amaru wrote:

Instead of level ups by time, why not have them go by orbits, like on Party?

How would this work when the field is reduced to three four players?

Would you make it two circuits after it's down to five?

Amaru

I'm not sure how it works, haven't played Party in a while. Maybe somebody who's a regular to their SNG's can fill you in.

NickyOD

The structure of the pokerevents SnGs is brutal pure and simple. I've already posted about this on their forum. The starting stacks for the $200 SnGs in Sligo were 4000 with 15 minute blinds but that is still too tight. If you play in one with a handful of decent players you can have 5 or 6 still in with average stacks of just 6BBs. In the last one I played I had to push UTG with 8-T and was lucky enough to quadruple up. While there is a way to approach those SnGs they are almost a lottery. There needs to be a 75-150 and 150-300 level.

RoundTower

Fatboydim wrote:

Pokerevents SnGs - How would you improve them?

Have cash games. This is the reason I don't patronise Pokerevents. Don't tell me there would be legal issues.

Waylander

But there would be legal issues!:)

RoundTower

What did the Merrion have to do, put them on the other side of a doorway, wasn't it? Not even a closed door separating them and the bar, just to have them in a different area than where drink was being served.

Waylander

No, I think the Merrion gave away booze, it did not sell it, although I could be wrong. That is what Rathfarnham card club does, the staff offer you a beer etc, but only blackjack players or roullette players get offered booze. Tournie players get tea or soft drinks.

Ballyman

Waylander wrote:

No, I think the Merrion gave away booze, it did not sell it, although I could be wrong. That is what Rathfarnham card club does, the staff offer you a beer etc, but only blackjack players or roullette players get offered booze. Tournie players get tea or soft drinks.

Why is that?? Is it a legal issue or something that booze can't be served at a poker table?? The SE is the same. They will bring booze up to you but you have to sit in the bar area to drink it and then sit back at the table whereas downstairs at the blackjack you can have a drink wherever you want?? Doesn't make sense to me.
More drunks at the table the better the cash making opportunity I think!!

Waylander

I think, but am not sure of the legalities here, but I think it is against the law for such an establishment to sell alchohol, but not to serve it. Fintan (Pokerevents) would be better equiped to answer that question.

Pokerevents

Gambling on a licienced premises is illegal. When I approached the authorities with my proposal they approved it with the view that tournament poker was a competition not gambling. However if I had introduced cash games during our events I'm sure there would have being problems. I could have run cash games the same as the private card clubs do but the sale of alcohol would have being a problem. I decided to have a strict no cash game policy. They do spring up at the larger events but these are in private hotel rooms, and if we supply a dealer there is no rake just a fee for the dealer.
The Irish Open was a interesting one with cash games played as there was no bar in function room where the event was held. (This is the same ballroom (x3) the Irish Championship will be in next month.) However what they did to copperfasten their case was to disallow any alcohol to be brought into the room from the bar in the next room. This was pointless, as the law states sale of alcohol on a licienced premises. Anyway from our point of view we will stick to the no cash game policy unless it is private room without any bar.

Lex

Any thoughts on the orig post fintan?

Pokerevents

Lex wrote:

Any thoughts on the orig post fintan?

These are essentially speed tournaments. They are fast and they are advertised as such. I generally say to players they are 90mins max. However they can go on for up to two hours. The problem is the slow play. Many of the players who play these are into the crack big time. They joke about the main event and you will find very loose Hollywood actor type players that take sometimes several minutes to make a decision. The sharks that get bad beated out of the main event and quickly sign up, always ask for longer levels to increase their chances. I would suggest they play the 100/200 where the play is faster and bigger starting stacks.

Structure of SnG's
50 buy-in 12mins levels 3000 in chips
100 buy-in 12mins levels 3500 in chips
200 buy-in 15mins levels 4000 in chips

25-50,50-100,100-200,300-600,400-800,500-1000,800-1500,1000-2000,1500-3000 frozen at same.

Fatboydim

Interesting that you use the term Speed tournament. As one of the toughts I had was introducing a clock. Twice we had to ask for a clock to be put on a player before... But then that gave him another Minute - So maybe if the clock is called on a player it should be twenty seconds to act or hand is dead.

But what about the introduction of a 75/150 blind and 150 / 300?

And given that the dealers aren't paid for the SnGs and tables are usually free - What's the problem if a game does last two hours? I understand once it's past midnight... But earlier in the evening seems it would make no odds.