NTL Digital : Watch and Record

MartMax

Maybe I'm just being blind.

http://www.ntl.ie/athome/dtv/introduction.html

Watch and Record:

You can watch a digital channel while recording one of the 17 Basic TV channels, or you can watch one of the 17 Basic channels while recording from a digital channel.

What exactly does it mean?

Michael Collins

It just means that when you get digital, you have the ability to either watch a digital channel and, using a VCR, record one of the 17 analogue stations, which you will still receive (i.e. record just like you always did, with the antenna cable going into the back of the VCR, and watch a digital channel via the NTL box) OR vice versa i.e. you can record NTL digital using a Video or DVD Recorder, while watching the any of the analogue stations.

Not the answer you were hoping for I'm sure! It's worded a bit confusingly, to try and make people think it's a similar deal to Sky+

MartMax

it is definitely confusing to make people think that it's like Sky+ or Tivo... :mad:

bk

mart_max wrote:

it is definitely confusing to make people think that it's like Sky+ or Tivo... :mad:

I've got a Tivo working with NTL digital

Before you ask, MOD EDIT: and we won't, thanks.

Kevok

Mod Edit:

Cough...



Keep it this side of legal, please.

bk

DMC wrote:

Cough...

Keep it this side of legal, please.

Hi DMC, there isn't anything illegal about it.

When I say hacking, I mean in the traditional, computer science term, not the misunderstood mainstream term. When I say hacking, it just means getting you hands dirty fiddling with Linux in order to make it work in Ireland.

I don't touch or do anything with NTL Digital, the Tivo receives the NTL signal for the digital box via a Scart to Composite cable, the Tivo changes the channel on the NTL box using a IR blaster, this is no different to how many video recorders work.

If Tivo was available in Ireland, I'd happily pay for the service.

I'm actually pretty pissed you have moded this, the Tivo company has actually never complained this practice and has actually actively supported it. I think you just misunderstand what I'm doing. I have legally bought a Tivo and I have legally bought NTL digital, now I'm only making them work together.

bk

bk wrote:

If Tivo was available in Ireland, I'd happily pay for the service.

I'm actually pretty pissed you have moded this, the Tivo company has actually never complained this practice and has actually actively supported it. I think you just misunderstand what I'm doing. I have legally bought a Tivo and I have legally bought NTL digital, now I'm only making them work together.

I dont think any of us have any issues with what you are doing,its just that the discussion of this is not allowed on these boards.
Read the rules sticky in satelite.
If thats not stickied here on cable/mmds I'll copy it over now.It's certainly available in the announcements on the forum at the top.

And yes I see that it is.

It's strict yes but it has to be.

cgarvey

So in the same way, we're not allowed to discuss extending remote controls, digisenders, or anything like that? If that is the case, then the charter needs to be made a WHOLE lot clearer. If it's not the case, then how is it different to what bk describes in post #6 of this thread?

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't see how it's illegal either, and I'm interested in how he's done this.
.cg

bk

Earthman wrote:

Read the rules sticky in satelite.
If thats not stickied here on cable/mmds I'll copy it over now.It's certainly available in the announcements on the forum at the top.

I have read it and I really don't see how what I'm doing falls under it. I assume tihs is what you are talking about:

DON'T Discuss hacking systems.
New For the avoidance of doubt: DON'T Discuss any methods that allow access to a pay-television service, other than taking out a legitimate, paid, subscription to the provider of that service.

DON'T Discuss methods of accessing pay-TV systems, the content of which is not meant to be viewed in the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom.

What I'm doing in no way hacks a pay-TV system, I'm in no way accessing the services of a Pay-TV system without a subscription, in fact you most have a a subscription for this to work. I don't touch the NTL Digital box in any way, nor do I interfere with, nor in anyway decrypt the NTL encryption protection.

What I'm doing is no different from plugging the output of a NTL digital box into a VCR or DVD-Recorder and recording the show. It is also no different from the discussions about MythTV or Windows Media Centre that we have often had on these boards.

For about a year Tivo's where actually sold in the UK in conjunction with NTL:UK and worked in exactly this way, the Tivo actually came with a dongle to make this work. However since Tivo unfortunately pulled out of the UK, it is no longer available.

I'll also point out that I have in fact often discussed this before on these boards without any problems and I also notice many people talk about FTV cards in the satellite forum, which is against the rules, but no one enforces that.

Please tell me how I'm breaking the rules by discussing this? I believe the only reason this happened is because I used the word "hack" which was misunderstood.

Rosser

There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the use of Tivo with NTL digital but if there is I better not mention that I use a light bulb in a light

icdg

Just to remind everyone, the moderators' decisions are final. There are good reasons why that rule is there: it is illegal in this country to interfere with a cable television system or to access that system without a subscription. I realise that we are talking about something a bit different here, but the rule remains.

bk

icdg wrote:

Just to remind everyone, the moderators' decisions are final. There are good reasons why that rule is there: it is illegal in this country to interfere with a cable television system or to access that system without a subscription. I realise that we are talking about something a bit different here, but the rule remains.

Yes, but as you say this is something completely different so how can the rule be applied to this.

It is simply *****impossible***** to interefere with a cable TV system or to access the system without a subscription with this method. It is exactly the same as a VCR.

In this case, with all due respect, the moderator is simply wrong. He or she should simply admit they made a honest mistake and we can all move on and talk about this completely legal subject.

If this subject is banned, then about 50% of the threads on this and the satelittle board should also be banned as they also have the slightest connection with pay-tv systems.

There are already at least a dozen threads about this subject on boards, just do a google.

JohnC.

That's all well and good, but that rule has nothing to do with what was being discussed. It's not a bit different. It is completely different. It would come under the same rule that prohibits discussion of using a VCR with NTL. And there is no such rule that I am aware of. There is no cable system being interfered with and there is no accessing the system without subscription.

That is my first and final word on the matter.

jimmycrackcorm

Hi

I just want to say that I use a video sender to transmit the signal from my NTL digital box upstairs so I can watch digital tv in my bedroom. I then use the infrared part to transmit the remote changin singals downstairs.

Now I'm wondering if the mod should edit this or will it be illegal only if I put say one of those dvd recorders on also? Or perhaps there is such a thing as a tivo bigot.

Mossy Monk

do Tivo give instructions on how to hack the software on the boxes? it is mentioned that they were sold with NTL: UK. that is not what we have in this country. regarding video senders, what exactly are you hacking into on one of those? you use light bulbs? well done :rolleyes:

the subject of FTV cards have absolutely no connection with this. do please explain how it does. what are you hacking into with a FTV card

no ones opinions are going to be changed on this

bk

Mossy Monk wrote:

do Tivo give instructions on how to hack the software on the boxes? it is mentioned that they were sold with NTL: UK. that is not what we have in this country. regarding video senders, what exactly are you hacking into on one of those? you use light bulbs? well done :rolleyes:

The Tivo stuff works in exactly the same way as a video sender. If we can't talk about Tivo, then we also aren't allowed to talk about video senders. As I said this whole thing started because I said "hacking", that was the wrong word to use, people don't seem to understand the correct, original meaning for this word.

As I have said repeatedly this is not hacking NTL's system, this Tivo stuff will work with Sky Satellite, FTA Satelitte, NTL analogue and even terrestial to the air. In fact, that is an idea, maybe I'll post this info in the terrestial board as it relates to terrestial, then no one can whine and compalin.

Mossy Monk wrote:

the subject of FTV cards have absolutely no connection with this. do please explain how it does. what are you hacking into with a FTV card

The rules say:
DON'T Discuss any methods that allow access to a pay-television service, other than taking out a legitimate, paid, subscription to the provider of that service.

Well FTV cards do exactly that, they allow you access to channels for which you haven't paid for and you haven't the license to view and strictly speaking it is illegal. By allowing talk of FTV cards and how to fraudulently get them from the UK, you are breaking this rule and are being highly hypocritical.

no ones opinions are going to be changed on this

And you are a mind reader now are you?

This started because people didn't understand what I was talking about, I'm trying to correct that now, but it is difficult to try and correct it without giving the details, so catch 22.

Mossy Monk

Channel 4 and five are not covered by the UK license fee. they are also not subscription channels so what license do i need to watch them? the same license some cable operators in this country use?

when i said no ones opinions i was speaking of the moderators

bk

Mossy Monk wrote:

Channel 4 and five are not covered by the UK license fee. they are also not subscription channels so what license do i need to watch them? the same license some cable operators in this country use?

But you are infringing there copyright, there have not given you the permission (this is what I meant by license) to view their service, so yes it is theft.

It should be a give away that the FTV cards are encrypted and can only be gotten by people with an address in the UK, so it should be sort of a give away that they don't want you viewing their service. Therefore you are talking about how to by-pass their security.

This is far closer to being illegal then the Tivo stuff I'm talking about. I find this to be all very hypocrtical.

A also notice that there is another thread on this board where people are openly talking about getting the NTL analogue TV service without paying:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054855661

Why haven't the mods taking action about this? I really hate hypocrisy and double standards.

bk

BTW if this is so illegal, then how is it that you can buy a book from O'Reilly of all people, called Tivo Hacks, which explains how to do it and which is available to buy right here in Ireland:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005539/qid=1133399828/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/026-3866139-5050045

and another one, Hacking The Tivo:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592001114/ref=pd_bxgy_text_2_cp/026-3866139-5050045

oh look another one, Hacking TiVo: The Enhancement, Modification and Development Starter Kit:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592001114/ref=pd_bxgy_text_2_cp/026-3866139-5050045

jimmycrackcorm

bk wrote:

But you are infringing there copyright, there have not given you the permission (this is what I meant by license) to view their service, so yes it is theft.

This is far closer to being illegal then the Tivo stuff I'm talking about. I find this to be all very hypocrtical.

Perhaps you can explain this. I'm originally from up close to the border on the southern side. We always received the Northern Ireland channels on our TV ariel but never paid the BBC licence fee. According to your logic this is dishonest. And now I find that people I know are popping into shops in the north to buy the freeview box as the signal spills over.

A also notice that there is another thread on this board where people are openly talking about getting the NTL analogue TV service without paying:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054855661

Why haven't the mods taking action about this? I really hate hypocrisy and double standards.

There is a distinction. It is not the OPS mistake or fault that he still gets an analogue signal when NTL should be managing their own business. It is his good fortune that they are incompetent and NTL have only themselves to blame.

However had he said that by the same circumstances he can escape paying the TV licence then that would be different as that is a legal obligation.

bk

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Perhaps you can explain this. I'm originally from up close to the border on the southern side. We always received the Northern Ireland channels on our TV ariel but never paid the BBC licence fee. According to your logic this is dishonest. And now I find that people I know are popping into shops in the north to buy the freeview box as the signal spills over.

Well with regards to spill over of analogue, freeview and satellite FTA services, there is a EU directive that specifically says that this is legal.

However giving details on how to circumvent the UK FTV encryption by buying from ebay, etc. is strcitly speaking against the rules of this forum. Personally I have no problem with it, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

You might want to read that again - after all it is called "Freeview".
The address in the uk thing is purely in place so that the BBC can get their database of licence payers.

I said FTV, as in Free To View satellite system in the UK (that requires an encrypted card to view), which is very different to Freeview, which is DTV and which I didn't mention.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

There is a distinction. It is not the OPS mistake or fault that he still gets an analogue signal when NTL should be managing their own business. It is his good fortune that they are incompetent and NTL have only themselves to blame.

Well if he doesn't use it then fine, he isn't breaking the law. However if he continues to use the service without paying, then strictly speaking it is theft. Weither NTL disconnected the service or not is irrelevant.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Now I'm wondering if the mod should edit this or will it be illegal only if I put say one of those dvd recorders on also? Or perhaps there is such a thing as a tivo bigot.

The mods have decided that any discussion of hacking any device to do anything its not supposed to do is not allowed on this board.

Thats not a comment on whether we approve or disapprove of anything you might do with your video sender or Tivo or whatever.It's a blanket ban on any discussion involving hacking.
Whether we approve or disapprove is irrelevant and immaterial anyway but the mods decision as icdg said is final with regard to this.

Thread closed