Nissan Micra Fire

bmoferrall

I was woken at 4am this morning by someone banging on my door.
Not recognising the person initially, I was hesitant to open for him.
After making out the word fire I disabled the house alarm and went out to investigate.
It turns out that he lives (partially) above my immediate neighbour and was startled by a loud bang.
On looking out the window he noticed black smoke billowing from the garage/carport of my neighbour.

My immediate neighbour, a recent tenant, had three days previously exchanged his 1.6 laguna for a '94 nissan micra, in order to reduce his insurance premium. He managed to sell the laguna and buy the micra in one day, so he was understandably chuffed.
That same micra was now on fire in the garage. At any moment the fuel tank was liable to explode.

The fire brigade arrived quickly and put out the fire before it could spread beyond the confines of the car port.
Thankfully, no one was injured. There appears to be no structural damage to the roof of the car port, apart from a few panels removed by the fire officers.

Here's a couple of snaps of the damage:








A few more:
Pic 1
Pic 3
Pic 5
Pic 7

The micra owner says he parked the car at midnight, 4 hours before the fire. There was no sign of intruders at the time of the initial bang. There is no sign of attempted forced entry.
The fire officers reckon the fire started in the dash behind the steering wheel.
Had a neighbour not been awoken by the initial bang, God forbid what the outcome would have been.
All the apartments/houses are timber-framed, though presumably there's a fireproof partition between each.

Does anyone have any theories on how this could have happened, bearing in mind the 4-hour time lapse?
Are we right in assuming the fuel tank would have eventually exploded? I vaguely recall a Fifth Gear episode where they stated that such a fire usually fizzles out tamely.
I shall be investing in a couple of fire extinguishers as soon as possible.

el tel

That could have been catastrophic had it continued to burn. Amazing.

seamus

bmoferrall wrote:

Are we right in assuming the fuel tank would have eventually exploded?

Not really. Petrol in its liquid form isn't explosive. It's the vapourised petrol which is ignited in the engine. That said, liquid petrol will "burn" as the top of the liquid vapourises and keeps the fire fuelled. But it won't spontaneously explode. There is a danger though, as the emptier the tank is, the more petrol vapour there is -v- liquid petrol. Consequently, a fire is much more dangerous in a vehicle with an almost empty fuel tank than in a vehicle with a full fuel tank, ironically enough.
The biggest danger of any petrol tank explosion, other than the initial blast, is the burning, liquid petrol which is blasted all around the vicinity - it'll be like napalm. How little petrol you'd need to have in the tank for it to explode, I don't know.

CrimE

Scary stuff.

Lucky it wasnt worse than it was.

fletch

Is that bmoferrall's Alfa 156 GTA in the next car port?

spartacus93

I would say so, seeing as he posted it.

bmoferrall

seamus wrote:

Not really. Petrol in its liquid form isn't explosive. It's the vapourised petrol which is ignited in the engine. That said, liquid petrol will "burn" as the top of the liquid vapourises and keeps the fire fuelled. But it won't spontaneously explode. There is a danger though, as the emptier the tank is, the more petrol vapour there is -v- liquid petrol. Consequently, a fire is much more dangerous in a vehicle with an almost empty fuel tank than in a vehicle with a full fuel tank, ironically enough.
The biggest danger of any petrol tank explosion, other than the initial blast, is the burning, liquid petrol which is blasted all around the vicinity - it'll be like napalm. How little petrol you'd need to have in the tank for it to explode, I don't know.

Cheers seamus, that explanation sounds familiar alright.
There was a fair bit of heat generated so there's always the danger of a secondary fire starting in these situations.
A fire extinguisher may well have killed the fire in the early stages so that's definitely on my shopping list.

Supercell

Reminds me of living in the Dorset square apartments..my motorbike spontaniously combusted followed by the whole car park a few months later..nice neighbourhood..glad i was renting...

Rudolph Claus

I like the way the OP doesnt show his own number plate but happily displays the neighbours. :rolleyes:

fletch

spartacus93 wrote:

I would say so, seeing as he posted it.

LOL you would think I woulda have noticed that....I jus saw the GTA badge & thought of him...never even looked who the original poster one....some detective I'd make lol

seamus

Nuttzy wrote:

I like the way the OP doesnt show his own number plate but happily displays the neighbours. :rolleyes:

Well, the car is scrap now, it doesn't really matter any more

Squirrel

Nuttzy wrote:

I like the way the OP doesnt show his own number plate but happily displays the neighbours. :rolleyes:

There's no attempt to block his own number-plate, there's a shine, probably from the camera flash on it

skibum

Nuttzy wrote:

I like the way the OP doesnt show his own number plate but happily displays the neighbours. :rolleyes:

I've asked this before, what's the point in blanking out number plates when pictures are posted?
If it is for "Security" reasons more people probably see the car in question* on the road every day than on any post here?
*Obviously not this micra anymore:rolleyes:

If some whack is going to clone a number plate for a specific car / model, all they would have to do is hang around a very busy junction for a few minutes and chances are they would spot a similar model.

ciarsd

incredible.

glad no one was injured and the only damage is to a micra, which is insured and easily replaced.

electrical fault, if there is no sign of 3rd party interference?

jayok

in order to reduce his insurance premium

May be its the cynic in me, but torch the car, get some cash, doesn't affect NCB?

I cannot believe I thought of this... :eek:

Stephen

You're not going to get a whole lot of cash for a 1994 micra, so it would make the risk of committing insurance fraud not very worthwhile.

bmoferrall

jayok wrote:

May be its the cynic in me, but torch the car, get some cash, doesn't affect NCB?

I cannot believe I thought of this... :eek:

Believe me, if you had seen the panic and distress of the owner at the time, you wouldn't think that. Plus, it would have been suicidal folly to torch it in the car port.

In any case, (as Stephen says) there would be no long-term financial gain in deliberately setting the car alight.
The assessed value of such a car would probably be a lot less that 1000.
Taking typical policy excess into account the owner might come out of it with a few hundred euros.
The inevitable increase in his premium would wipe that out pretty quickly.

Given that there's no evidence of third parties involved, the most likely explanation would be an electrical fault of some kind: maybe a short at a battery terminal caused one or more wires to slowly melt, eventually igniting combustible material (foam?) in the dash.

You may have noticed the Bord Gais (along with ESB) control panel in the car port. I wonder could the main feed have ignited had the fire been adjacent to it?

zilog_jones

It's a March too (i.e. an import - note the square number plate on the back), so he'll probably get even less for it than a Micra. Could have been a dodgy import too, which would explain the eventual fire...

layke

skibum wrote:

I've asked this before, what's the point in blanking out number plates when pictures are posted?
If it is for "Security" reasons more people probably see the car in question* on the road every day than on any post here?
*Obviously not this micra anymore:rolleyes:

I work for an IT security company, we get paid to hack, phreak & penitrate companies anyway possible to gain information before we file a report and let me tell you, it's VERY VERY easy to do. Having said that I have never tried to get the info off someone's reg before, but if it's as easy as getting info from a normal company it certainly can be done.

So i'm Mr. Pro car thief. I see your nice 70k Beamer complete with Reg. If I find your details of where you live from the Reg. I'll call round, break into your house, steal your keys and be straight off to Dublin port to export your car.

There are other reasons, Garda for one. I won't put my modded civic's license plate up for that reason.

Nuff said.

layke

On the car, I would have asked for an investigation by the fire brigade to see what caused that. My car nearly went of fire a few weeks back, the bulb fell out of the holder for the rear drivers side break light and rested on a shammy that was actually left in the panel from the previous owner... I couldn't believe it when I started to smell smoke in my car. It did burn a hole in the smamy but fortunately it didn't go up in flames.

jayok

bmoferrall wrote:

Believe me, if you had seen the panic and distress of the owner at the time, you wouldn't think that. Plus, it would have been suicidal folly to torch it in the car port.

Wasn't trying to implicate the owner in anything, was just thinking along the lines of what an insurance company would probably look at. So I understand he must have been stressed to bits.

bmoferrall wrote:

You may have noticed the Bord Gais (along with ESB) control panel in the car port. I wonder could the main feed have ignited had the fire been adjacent to it?

Well the ESB won't ignite as such, the mains cables would probably melt and short-out the supply to the house. As for the gas, there was a high-risk or igniting the main's supply to the house, however, I don't think it would have been as spectacular as one might imagine as there are safety mechanisms around the supply of gas pipes and meters. Nonetheless I suspect that it certainly would have given fuel to the fire.

As for what caused it, it must have been electrical. It's the only thing in a cooled down car that can generate enough heat to cause a fire. The big question though is what electrical item caused the fire. Was there a 3rd party alarm fitted? Was it "serviced" before he collected it?

Seth Brundle

jayok wrote:

May be its the cynic in me, but torch the car, get some cash, doesn't affect NCB?

I cannot believe I thought of this... :eek:

Read [Article] Man jailed for staging fake motor crash

before all the flaming, Im glad that everyone is ok and there wasn't too much damage but...






... at least its another micra off our roads!

MicraBoy

:eek: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:eek: