Imported Racism

jetsonx

It was interesting to see the term "Paki" (as in derogatory sense) seems to be seeping into the Irish venacular, sometimes (and only sometimes) used to decribe non-Irish people or brown skinned people.

Do you think this is an import from the UK tabloids / TV ?

The average skanger here in Ireland not being very conversant
with some immigrants true origins or race.

I mean you don't hear Johner going to Deco " no Declan that immigre over there is from the Northern provinces of Pakistan - I recognise the accent"

plonk

What do you expect from such a close minded country, who are not used to seeing different races living in their villages and towns. I think a lot of people are scared and thats why they are making racist remarks.

Karl Hungus

Ah, I remember the days when there was a lad in school who went by the name Paki (Short for Patrick, oddly. Don't know how common that is.) and "Sambo" didn't mean a derogatory term for Africans. Oh how words we were so used to have suddenly become so wrong.

I suppose it's like the old farmer, who untill recently was used to throwing a few "Faggots" on the fire. :v:

funk-you

jetsonx wrote:

It was interesting to see the term "Paki" (as in derogatory sense) seems to be seeping into the Irish venacular, sometimes (and only sometimes) used to decribe non-Irish people or brown skinned people.

Do you think this is an import from the UK tabloids / TV ?

The average skanger here in Ireland not being very conversant
with some immigrants true origins or race.

I mean you don't hear Johner going to Deco " no Declan that immigre over there is from the Northern provinces of Pakistan - I recognise the accent"

Seeping? its been around and in use quite a lot by idiots for as long as i can remember.

YeatsCounty

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ah, I remember the days when there was a lad in school who went by the name Paki (Short for Patrick, oddly. Don't know how common that is.) and "Sambo" didn't mean a derogatory term for Africans. Oh how words we were so used to have suddenly become so wrong.

'Sambo" is a racist remark now? Since when?

Guess I'm lucky not to be in big trouble by now.

Hobbes

YeatsCounty wrote:

'Sambo" is a racist remark now? Since when?

1970's as far as I recall. There was a TV program on around that time that used various racial slur words (some made up). Don't think it was the Alf Garner sitcom, another one.

YeatsCounty

Hobbes wrote:

1970's as far as I recall. There was a TV program on around that time that used various racial slur words (some made up). Don't think it was the Alf Garner sitcom, another one.

Hmm, interesting.

I looked "Sambo" up on Wikipedia:

Sambo is now seen as a derogatory term for an African American. Several origins of the term itself have been proposed, but it gained notoriety as a racial pejorative by association with the children's book The Story of Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman, in 1898. It was the story of a boy named Sambo who outwitted a group of hungry tigers.

The setting of Bannerman's story was clearly in India - as can be seen by the presence of tigers and the reference to ghee - and thus it is likely that the "Sambo" character began life as an Indian boy. The book's original illustrations show a Sambo character resembling a golliwog, a European version sometimes viewed as an iconic, racist "darky" stereotypes, which could be taken as a stereotype of either Indian or African people (the generalization being racially problematic in its own respect, characterized later in this article). As the book made its way across the Atlantic to the US, the illustrations were adapted to the possibly more obviously demeaning stereotype known as blackface in the US. This is likely what led to permanent association of "Sambo" with blackface stereotypes. At this time, the racism of the term was not overt or hostile. But the unconscious racism evident in the blackface stereotype was clear. When the eventual public uproar brought the issue to the attention of the general public, some renounced the use of "Sambo" term, but others embraced it as a racial slur. Thus, the use of "Sambo" by whites as a racist term went from being unintentional to open and derogatory.

Pigman II

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ah, I remember the days when there was a lad in school who went by the name Paki (Short for Patrick, oddly. Don't know how common that is.)

Well Irelands legendary goalkeeper Pat Bonner was also always referred to here as 'Packie'.

Wonder what the English must have thought we were on about
"Yeah we stick Paki in goals cos he's no good at football."

AnCapaillMor

Pigman II wrote:

Wonder what the English must have thought we were on about
"Yeah we stick Paki in goals cos he's no good at football."

hope they did'nt do the "Everytime he takes a corner joke".

Rhyme

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ah, I remember the days when there was a lad in school who went by the name Paki (Short for Patrick, oddly. Don't know how common that is.) and "Sambo" didn't mean a derogatory term for Africans. Oh how words we were so used to have suddenly become so wrong.

I suppose it's like the old farmer, who untill recently was used to throwing a few "Faggots" on the fire.

:eek: They're slowly picking away at my childhood vocabulary. Always makes me wonder how the word for kindling turned into a derogatory word.

robinph

Karl Hungus wrote:

I suppose it's like the old farmer, who untill recently was used to throwing a few "Faggots" on the fire. :v:

I'm not sure if these Faggots should be thrown on the fire or not though?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/faggotswithoniongrav_3899.shtml

Pigman II

robinph wrote:

I'm not sure if these Faggots should be thrown on the fire or not though?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/faggotswithoniongrav_3899.shtml

Antony Worrall Thompson wrote:

....and place under the blade of a mincer.

oooh matron!

joe_chicken

plonk wrote:

What do you expect from such a close minded country, who are not used to seeing different races living in their villages and towns. I think a lot of people are scared and thats why they are making racist remarks.

Thanks for that enlightening piece of information about how closed minded I am and how racism works

But you seem to have missed the point!

I think what the OP was saying was that alot of the racism that we see in this country, is not a trait associated with Irish people and the words like Paki and the rest are imports from reading too many english tabloids!

I think as a whole, considering how small a country we are, we are fairly welcoming to immigrants and most people realise to not be would deny a large chunk of our emmigrating past

fischerspooner

I never understood why the word Paki was racist. I mean it's just short for pakistani. You can say "Iteye" for italians (no idea of the spelling) is that racist? Is Brit racist? There'll always be a little racism if you move to a new country, that's just the way humans are. I'd put up with a bit of racism in Ireland rather than live in some hole like Nigeria to be honest.

Shabadu

what

fischerspooner

what do you mean "what"? too stupid to read what I wrote?

joe_chicken

fischerspooner wrote:

what do you mean "what"? too stupid to read what I wrote?

hahahaha... you definitely are on a collision course with a large banning!

for curiousitys sake... are you trying to get banned?

fischerspooner

can you tell me why I would be banned?

Shabadu

fischerspooner wrote:

what do you mean "what"? too stupid to read what I wrote?

what

what: used in response to an entry, question, comment, forum post, etc. that is just completely un-fúcking-believably stupid.

fischerspooner

ok to answer your "what" - I'm asking why paki is racist and Brit/canuck/yank isn't? Is it just because they have different skin we're not allowed have names for them like we do for everyone else?

Shabadu

I'm referring to your implication that a little racism is ok, and that people should tolerate racism if they're new to the country, as it's better than the 'hole' that they came from.

fischerspooner

I'm just saying it's pointless getting worked up about it. As long as there are different races there will be some racism. I don't think it can be cured, people are people. Racism exists the world over. People just don't like their own ways disturbed by other cultures. They seem to feel like they're being invaded. Maybe it will disappear in time, I don't know...

dr zoidberg

It's the way people use the term "Paki" to describe everyone with brown skin, etc. Indians would probably find that offensive. It's just another label, originally it was probably innocent enough (and probably simply used as short for "Pakistani"), but negative terms became associated with the word. It's a bit like "knacker", orginally all it meant was people who have a knack of fixing things, as travellers often did or were seen to do anyway, but of course it means something totally different nowadays.

I don't think the cause is as simple as the influence of UK media. A lot of Irish people seem to be inherently racist. It probably results from the invasion by foreigners which is a recurring theme in our history. As a result everyone over time has been brought up to hate the English, for example, and it is only when we get older we can see it for what it is, pointless racism (well, some people can). Racism tends to come from the parents, implicitly as well as explicitly, we pick up on their actions and learn them. They learned from their parents, and so on, back throughout history to the days of being invaded. Phobias are the same, they often run in families because of this process.

bonkey

fischerspooner wrote:

ok to answer your "what" - I'm asking why paki is racist and Brit/canuck/yank isn't? Is it just because they have different skin we're not allowed have names for them like we do for everyone else?

No, irs because - as the OP pointed out - the term Paki is not being used as a description of a Pakistani in this instance, so the comarison you're drawing is irrelevant to the situation being discussed.

jc

rubadub

dr zoidberg wrote:

It's a bit like "knacker", orginally all it meant was people who have a knack of fixing things, as travellers often did or were seen to do anyway, but of course it means something totally different nowadays.

You are getting mixed up with tinker, and tinkering. A knacker renders animals unfit for human consumption, eg turning horses into glue. Hence the term, I am knackered, since the horse was so old and tired they were fit for the knackers yard.

One term used wrongly constantly these days is "gimp", a gimp is a person with a lame leg, but due to tarantino people think it is a sadomasochistic redneck lunatic. Most real "gimp suits" are actually a nice pin stripe number from louis copeland.

EDIT: just found this! best phrase ever (knackers also being slang for testicles)
http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=definer&q=define:gnat%27s+knacker&defl=en

Lambsbread

what about paki bonner??

I think alot of irish (particularly young) are just ignorant and don't really need imported words to insult anyone.

Oh yeah people are using it a lot, especially kids. I walked into a shop in my town a while ago and these horrible snotty nosed brats were pointing at me and calling me a 'Paki', their mum was trying to shut them up. The thing is, I have no Pakistani or even Indian blood whatsoever. I am half Spanish, and look Mediterranean. It's like even the slightest hint of a tan is unforgiveable in this hole of a place. I'm sick of it.

biko

Ernest Bitter Oats wrote:

It's like even the slightest hint of a tan is unforgiveable in this hole of a place. I'm sick of it.

Unless it comes in a bottle and makes you look orange, rather than brown.

Guy:Incognito

Lambsbread wrote:

what about paki bonner??.

You'll find that thats "Packie" Bonner, as his first name is Patrick not Pakistani.

Guy:Incognito

Ernest Bitter Oats wrote:

It's like even the slightest hint of a tan is unforgiveable in this hole of a place. I'm sick of it.

In fairness, growing up here, they probably never seen a real tan.:)

my mother is german and you'd kind of know to look at her that she wasnt Irish, she still has an accent, so being over here in the early 80's she did get the odd look and remark. She was a bit of a novelty on the road in the begining apparently.

the Guru

YeatsCounty wrote:

Hmm, interesting.

I looked "Sambo" up on Wikipedia:

Holy crap I live in america now and sometimes I would say im getting a ham sambo for lunch , cheers for that I could get into a lot of trouble

annR

I can't find any reference to it now, but I read a while ago that Australia has ruled use of certain racist terms to be, well, not racist. Their reasoning is that so many Australians talk like that, that to frown on it would be impinging on people's freedom of speech. Or something. like I said I can't find any reference to it.