Heterophobia

Enigma365

Messiah... are you gay?

ChrisCross:

Most of my mates are actually very heterophobic. Yes. They don't like heterosexuals. Not one bit. (note, I dont share their sentiments)
The idea of being hetero or whats called heteronormative (even shadowing anything from heterosexual society) is a bad thing.

I have never heard of anyone actually being heterophobic until your very post. Assuming you are being serious, why do most of your mates dislike heterosexuals?

Also what is heteronormative and why is it a bad thing?

Thread split from here: Would you rather be heterosexual?

Boston

Enigma365 wrote:

Messiah... are you gay?

ChrisCross:



I have never heard of anyone actually being heterophobic until your very post. Assuming you are being serious, why do most of your mates dislike heterosexuals?

Also what is heteronormative and why is it a bad thing?

Come now, you've never heard "I've no stright friends because they don't understand me"? I certainly know people that treat being Queer as some sort of elit club thing and look down on people who aren't like them. It's kinda like when a bullied child becomes a bully.

As for heteronormative, I persume he means striaght acting, aka not a screaming Queen.

Enigma365

So he is saying that he knows people who think that being gay and not being a screaming queen is a bad thing?

Cos thats pretty ****ed up if you ask me.

Hmm_Messiah

Enigma365 wrote:

Messiah... are you gay?

dunno TBH

on a scale of 1 to 10 maybe a 7, though dunno how I'd even calculate that. Not straight/not curious.

Nevyn

I have met hetrophobic people, the type that asume if you have kids you are
and always have been hetro and know nothing of the 'lifestyle' but I have been
very very good and not yet hit the two people who had the gall to call me a
'breeder'.
There are idiots and unplesant people every where.
Still the best reply to the breeder slur has to be 'So was Yore Ma or else you wouldn't be here'.

Stark

Liouville wrote:

As for heteronormative, I persume he means striaght acting, aka not a screaming Queen.

It's from the little book of queer theory phrases like "heteropatriarchy" and other such phrases to bore the pants off the rest of the us. I think we should close Pandora's box now before we ask any more.

Enigma365 wrote:

So he is saying that he knows people who think that being gay and not being a screaming queen is a bad thing?

I think he means people who have taken the idea of being oppressed and taken it to the point of paranoia. The fearful straight have their "homosexual agenda", the fearful queer have their "heteropatriarchy" and "heteronormative society".

shay_562

So he is saying that he knows people who think that being gay and not being a screaming queen is a bad thing?

I've seen that opinion expressed right here more than once. Apparently we're fooling ourselves, trying to conform to social norms and living a lie. For shame...

I persume he means striaght acting, aka not a screaming Queen.

Oh, sweet jesus, don't ever use that term on this board! I still get a migraine thinking about the 47-page argument from the last time...

I have met hetrophobic people, the type that asume if you have kids you are and always have been hetro and know nothing of the 'lifestyle' but I have been very very good and not yet hit the two people who had the gall to call me a 'breeder'.

Yes, let's weigh "breeder" Vs. "arse bandit", "shirt lifter" etc and see who gets insulted in worse ways. On a more serious note, do you actually find it all that offensive? 'Cause really, it's pretty accurate, and not hugely derogatory - straight people breed. Y'all are the reason the species doesn't die out or whatever. I'm curious, since I use it quite a bit (never trying to be cruel, just joking, in the same way that my straight friends call me 'supergay' or whatever) and I wouldn't like to think I'm being horrificly offensive. Not that it would stop me, you understand, but I'd probably feel badly for a few seconds or something...

damien

shay_562 wrote:

Oh, sweet jesus, don't ever use that term on this board! I still get a migraine thinking about the 47-page argument from the last time...

43 pages. I edited it.

damien

shay_562 wrote:

'Cause really, it's pretty accurate, and not hugely derogatory - straight people breed. ..

Gay people put their willy's up holes that faeces come out. Would you be happy with assfcker? or shítmover? Both pretty accurate no? Anyway, it is all really down to intent. Why do you use breeder though? Why create a new name or nickname for you know "people"? You breed a dog or animal. Generally breeding implies forced reproduction and ownership and dominance of the animal.

shay_562

Gay people put their willy's up holes that faeces come out. Would you be happy with assfcker? or shítmover? Both pretty accurate no?

So do straight men, on occasion. And "breeder" doesn't contain profanity and isn't inherently crude or vulgar, unlike both the examples you use. Although I can see what you mean about the negative connotations of "to breed", I'd still consider it a harmless enough term that you can use it sparingly with people who aren't likely to be offended.

Enigma365

Apparently we're fooling ourselves, trying to conform to social norms and living a lie. For shame...[.quote]

I could not disagree more strongly to this line of thinking. Some people are naturally more camp than others, but in no way do I think campness is an inherent part of being gay.

In my opinion, the vast majority of gay people are not camp, its just those who are, are more obvious. Also, there are plenty of examples I have heard from others and seen myself of "non-camp" people who start to act camp after hanging around with camp people for long periods. I know I do it sometimes.

I will come up with a longer reply later but I will just say that I think that it is a load of nonsense.

shay_562

Oh, believe me, I agree. Just saying what other people have said to me. The fact that it's a load of bollix is neither here nor there.

Nevyn

shay_562 wrote:

Yes, let's weigh "breeder" Vs. "arse bandit", "shirt lifter" etc and see who gets insulted in worse ways.

I certainly do not use any of those terms and would not esp to a stranger who I had meet,or the friend of friend.

shay_562 wrote:

On a more serious note, do you actually find it all that offensive? 'Cause really, it's pretty accurate, and not hugely derogatory - straight people breed.

So some straight people become parents, some bisexual people become parents and so do some gay people become parents.

shay_562 wrote:

Y'all are the reason the species doesn't die out or whatever.

That statment and the use of the term breeder pretty much implies that people who have kids are like rabbits and have nothing else or better to do.
It is disrespectful, any term which strips a person of who they are and reduces them to a base function is disrespectful.

shay_562 wrote:

I'm curious, since I use it quite a bit (never trying to be cruel, just joking, in the same way that my straight friends call me 'supergay' or whatever) and I wouldn't like to think I'm being horrificly offensive. Not that it would stop me,

There is a big difference between that is said between friends with out sting
and malice as a jest or joke and how words and language are used to devalue people.

Homo, Fag, Queer, Dyke are to some people still loaded terms like Whore, Níggér, Spic.
A lot of work has been done to take back the 4 mentioned above but that can
never be enough of a reason to create a slur against people that are seen to be different.

Is "Gay" culture so threathened about it becoming more mainstream and less shocking that is has to find a radical way
to differenciate it self from the susposed sterotypical hetrosexual couple that has two kids by creating and using the such a term ?

Enigma365

Well still waiting for Chris to get back to me on my questions.

I guess I don't have anything to add except that in my opinion, it is pretty basic:

Many gays are camp and many gays are not camp. I think in both cases, these people are just being who they are.

Yes some people can become more or less camp depending on what company they keep etc. but that is fairly normal. I became a lot more "American acting", when I worked in America this summer and still use American slang from time to time.

I would hope nobody out there believes that people should be pigeon holed into a certain type of behaviour based on their sexual orientation. I suspect I may be over-analysing what has been said.

Annasopra

Many gays are camp and many gays are not camp. I think in both cases, these people are just being who they are.

agreed, it should also be pointed out many straight people are camp too

Zulu

shay_562 wrote:

Yes, let's weigh "breeder" Vs. "arse bandit", "shirt lifter" etc and see who gets insulted in worse ways. On a more serious note, do you actually find it all that offensive? 'Cause really, it's pretty accurate, and not hugely derogatory - straight people breed.

...and shirts aren't lifted?!? It's an insult, and as such is insulting. It's whats meant, that's insulting - not the word, but then, you know that already.
Your argument is similar to a racist saying that nig**r is accurate, as it refers to nigro peoples, and thus couldn't be really all that offensive. :rolleyes:

ChrisCross

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterophobia

Well thats a bit of a definition anyways for starters...
Surprised no ones ever encountered it before.

Got a few examples of this art exhibition that started up called "Hey hetero!" whish is a big Queer Theory thing. A lot of my mates don't like herterosexuals, heteropatriarchy or the trying to be boxed.

Lot of people don't want children or to get married or to fall into whats considered a heterrosexual sterotype. It's about power complexes and society norms and gender requirements. And so forht. To an extent I'd aggree with not wnating to fit into social norms or feeling pressured to fit into social norms but I'm not in anyway heterophobic.

People who are big fans of Queer Theory and are heterophobic probably don't want gay marriage for example cus it's a prime example of heteronormativity and so forth.


Heres the link for the "hey Hetero" posters:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHmemship.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHkissing.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHfamily.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHbashers.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHbaby.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c339/ChrisCrossMe/HHwedding.jpg

heres the link they came from:
http://www.abc.net.au/arts/design/stories/s455304.htm

Hmm_Messiah

People using such terminology end up only contributing to what they set out to avoid.

Terms like heterophobia and heteropatriachy etc dont' seem to me to serve any purpose. I'd of thought gay people would reject or disregard these and other terms finding that "labelling" doesn't match the realities as they experience them.

Most phobia is based on a fear of the unknown, or what "might" threaten you, it seems extreme to be phobic of 90% of the population.

Even accepting the terminology there seems to be some misunderstanding. Most of the things that would appear to be seen as "heteronormative" are simple social norms, the only hetero norm would be that your sexual partner have different genitalia (to yours).

Enigma365

Lot of people don't want children or to get married or to fall into whats considered a heterrosexual sterotype. To an extent I'd aggree with not wnating to fit into social norms or feeling pressured to fit into social norms.

Starting a family and getting married may well be constructs of society and nobody should ever feel pressured to follow them. I don't really see how this relates to sexual orientation however.

In my opinion, it is an inherent human trait to want to find a lifetime partner which whom you can be monogamous. Marriage is a way of formalising such a relationship in law and many couples choose to do so, whether they are straight or gay. Many couples on the other hand, regardless of their sexual orientation do not like the idea of marriage and choose not to follow that path.

In short, I fully accept that some people reject what they see as these "social norms", which is fine. I just don't get what this has to do with sexual orientation.

People who are big fans of Queer Theory and are heterophobic probably don't want gay marriage for example cus it's a prime example of heteronormativity and so forth.

I do not for a second believe that homosexuals want marriage rights simply because heterosexuals have them. They want them for the reasons I discussed above. Those who do not wish to get married, do not have to. However I do not accept any argument that homosexuals should reject the right to marry, simply because some people don't like the idea of "social norms".

The more I hear about Queer Theory, the less impressed I am by it.

shay_562

That statment and the use of the term breeder pretty much implies that people who have kids are like rabbits and have nothing else or better to do.

Your argument is similar to a racist saying that nig**r is accurate, as it refers to nigro peoples, and thus couldn't be really all that offensive.

Fair enough, so - I'll be more careful about when and how I use it in future. Like I said a few posts up, I'm mostly curious about how people would take it or view the term, I'm not trying to insult people here.

People who are big fans of Queer Theory and are heterophobic probably don't want gay marriage for example cus it's a prime example of heteronormativity and so forth.

Doesn't that argument apply to, oh, I don't know - everything?! Straight people are in the majority, so just about everything is done more by straight people than any other group. But even if you only mean things that gay people can't currently do, what about giving blood? If the blood transfusions board (or whatever their official title is) decided tomorrow to relax that stupid, discriminatory ban, should we avoid donating on the grounds that it's 'heteronormative' and playing into the overall schemes of the 'heteropatriarchy'?

Zulu

shay_562 wrote:

Fair enough, so - I'll be more careful about when and how I use it in future. Like I said a few posts up, I'm mostly curious about how people would take it or view the term, I'm not trying to insult people here.

Well then, I'd say it's fair enough to assume - given the reaction - that it's not taken too well.

Boston

shay_562 wrote:

Yes, let's weigh "breeder" Vs. "arse bandit", "shirt lifter" etc and see who gets insulted in worse ways. On a more serious note, do you actually find it all that offensive? 'Cause really, it's pretty accurate, and not hugely derogatory - straight people breed. Y'all are the reason the species doesn't die out or whatever. I'm curious, since I use it quite a bit (never trying to be cruel, just joking, in the same way that my straight friends call me 'supergay' or whatever) and I wouldn't like to think I'm being horrificly offensive. Not that it would stop me, you understand, but I'd probably feel badly for a few seconds or something...

It's the meaning behid the words, the attempt to segragate people, and box them into something. I've taken to using the word Queer to describe LGBT. No real people, however, call me a ****ing Queer as I'm walking down the streat holding my bf's hand, is another matter. Also it's down to the person how insulted they get. YOu can't say breader is any less then Fag or homo,its howthe person of the recieving end views it's

ChrisCross

I do not for a second believe that homosexuals want marriage rights simply because heterosexuals have them.

er... isn't that what equality is????

I don't want to get married ever. I also don't like monogamy. I can never see myself settling down and even if I did I wouldn't be into marriage. It's not what I want for me HOWEVER I do want equality. I do want marriage rights just because heterosexuals have it. Why the hell should they be allowed and we not to be? I want the right to choose to get married if I want and not someone to tell me I cant based on the gender of my partner.
A lot of people who want Gay marriage rights don't want to get married. Why do suppose homosexuals want marriage rights if not for equality purposes???

In short, I fully accept that some people reject what they see as these "social norms", which is fine. I just don't get what this has to do with sexual orientation.

Being straight is a social norm?

I mean, were getting a lil confused on what we're actually talking about.

Heterophobia - not liking straight kissing etc. Opposite of homophobia. Which I have encountered. Calling bisexuals.straight people breeders is a prime example.

Heteronormativity - something queer theorists would say is bad. Gender, power, sexual constructs that heterosexual society sets for people. The norm set by society. (even things like... kinky sex is against heteronormativity etc. - heterosexuals can be antiheteronormative if you get me)

Hope i've not made an arse of that...

shay_562

I do want marriage rights just because heterosexuals have it. Why the hell should they be allowed and we not to be?

Depends on your viewpoint, naturally, but there's a difference between wanting marraige rights on the basis of equality (ie, "straight people can get married" is your key argument as to why we should get them, as opposed to the sole reason) and wanting them simply because straight people have them and you want to conform to their heteronormative value system (which is what it sounded like you were suggesting in your first post). I would have thought most people fit into the first part of that rather than the second, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Well then, I'd say it's fair enough to assume - given the reaction - that it's not taken too well.

Really? 'Cause I was getting such a positive vibe from you all.

ChrisCross

see in my first post I'm only trying to get across what people who might not want gay marriage on the queer theory argument may think.
They think it's conforming to an old value system. While i feel it's just for striving for equality.
If you get my meaning.
But I play the devils advocate here.

more fun that way.

rsynnott

I used to be a little cautious of some straight males - they seem to be far more likely than anyone else to have an "oh my god there's a gay person in the room" style hissy fit.

Boston

rsynnott wrote:

I used to be a little cautious of some straight males - they seem to be far more likely than anyone else to have an "oh my god there's a gay person in the room" style hissy fit.

Never experience that one.