Irish ferries dispute/flags of convenince/low wages/ and the Nice treaty etc

dathi1

Well I hope none of the workers who have lost their Jobs voted yes to Nice "for Jobs" (the buzz word then) as recommended by their unions and Bertie: http://www.siptu.ie/news/article.php?id=687 I hope the ones who didn't get work elsewhere quickly....That's if they can compete with their eastern block succession state co workers.

walshb

Serves them right for voting YES to Nice......the electorate of Ireland really proved their stupidity in allowing Bertie and Co to apologise to Europe because we voted NO, then hold another referendum and what does the electorate DO????, they go and vote YES.......

Macmorris

As I understand it, what's happening now with Irish Ferries has nothing to do with immigration. The staff at the company woke up one morning and decided that they just didn't want to do that kind of work anymore.

Everyone knows that immigrants will only work in jobs that Irish people are too lazy to do.

pete

Macmorris wrote:

As I understand it, what's happening now with Irish Ferries has nothing to do with immigration.

Funny you should mention that. How many of the new Latvian staff have actually migrated to Ireland?

Zombrex

This has nothing to do with immigration, it has to do with outsourcing. It is pretty much the same as if Dell closed all the Irish factories and moved to India.

Bloodychancer

Wicknight wrote:

This has nothing to do with immigration, it has to do with outsourcing. It is pretty much the same as if Dell closed all the Irish factories and moved to India.

No it would be similar to Dell putting an Indian Flag over the Factory then sacking all its Irish Based workers and hiring in people who are so desperate for work that they would work for less than 4 euro an hour (ie below the minimum wage) and have none of the protections offered to Irish workers.

The simple solution is for a law that states any ship on a regular route between this country and another EU state must apply either the labour law here or the Labour law in the other EU state. Not the labour law in the Bahamas or where ever Irish ferries have applied to flag there ships.

If Irish Ferries want to move there ships to India or the Bahamas then let them do so but if they want to operate from Irish Ports to other EU ports then they have to be subject to the law of some EU country.

What Irish Ferries are doing is playing into the hands of the Racists and anti immigration types by allowing them to play on the fears people have of job security etc

netwhizkid

I agree with the op, I am in favour of savagely curtailing immigration into Ireland, yet the "replacements" by Irish ferries are as much the victims as the Irish people involved. They are nothing short of modern day slaves, €3.60 an hour. This government has a lot to answer for, yet as much as i blame them, I rest the majority of the blame on two factors, Bertie Ahern for allowing Harney to Dominatrix him. Fianna Fail are no good however they would not be this bad, as a person recently said to me, The crying shame of the debacle was that FF didn't get the majority or have a few Independents propping them up.

The progressive Democrats are now doing almost an equal amount of damage to this country as the British did. Mary Harney should be indicted for high treason and be made serve her whole life in Magdalene Laundry type conditions. As a nation of workers we must resist the neo liberal agenda stop the exploitation of workers. The right wing fascists will try throw the blame on the replacements, however they are not to blame.

Neo liberal Capitalist Imperialism must be stopped, The stealing of the Iraqi Oil, Globalisation, Global Warming, When will the world wake up. They will wake up when it is too late, as Arthur C. Clarke once said, I fell one day human life shall have to depart this planet to survive, I'm afraid he's right because if the neo-liberal agenda isn't stopped man will destroy the world.

A Dub in Glasgo

Bloodychancer wrote:

No it would be similar to Dell putting an Indian Flag over the Factory then sacking all its Irish Based workers and hiring in people who are so desperate for work that they would work for less than 4 euro an hour (ie below the minimum wage) and have none of the protections offered to Irish workers.

The simple solution is for a law that states any ship on a regular route between this country and another EU state must apply either the labour law here or the Labour law in the other EU state. Not the labour law in the Bahamas or where ever Irish ferries have applied to flag there ships.

If Irish Ferries want to move there ships to India or the Bahamas then let them do so but if they want to operate from Irish Ports to other EU ports then they have to be subject to the law of some EU country.

What Irish Ferries are doing is playing into the hands of the Racists and anti immigration types by allowing them to play on the fears people have of job security etc

Absolutely spot on

jrey1981

Its interesting that Bertie Ahern seems powerless to do much about this, although I heard one quote from him that was along the lines of "irish ferries management are trying to turn back the clock"

No Thatcher moment for Bertie then (in the 80s Rupert Murdoch moved his newspaper production in London to Wapping...Maggie and the police were behind him all the way)

corrected...

dirtyharry1971

I just think it's sick that Irish Ferries managed to get away with this. It's outrageous!!!! I myself personally will be making a point of not travelling with them ever again even if they become the low-fair ferry service as a result of exploiting underpaid migrant staff. I think the Irish people should boycott Irish ferries and use alternate transport services on principal.
Who is with me??

My god it would be good to see them go under by the hand of the people they screwed. Maybe we should start a poll on this and see what kind of reaction we get




(**** I sound like eddie hobbs):v:

Bloodychancer

dirtyharry1971 wrote:

I just think it's sick that Irish Ferries managed to get away with this. It's outrageous!!!! I myself personally will be making a point of not travelling with them ever again even if they become the low-fair ferry service as a result of exploiting underpaid migrant staff. I think the Irish people should boycott Irish ferries and use alternate transport services on principal.
Who is with me??

My god it would be good to see them go under by the hand of the people they screwed. Maybe we should start a poll on this and see what kind of reaction we get




(**** I sound like eddie hobbs):v:

I agree with you I will never travel with them even if they are free

Solair

e-mail or write to their HQ making your point very clear.

I will never travel with them again. Their Ireland-France service is terrible compared to Brittany ferries anyway!

Personally, I'd like to see them prevented from landing in Irish ports until they start playing by Irish or some EU labour legislation.

They also might consider dropping the term Irish from their title! They clearly aren't willing to play by Irish rules, so why should the be allowed to sully our country's name?

Bahamas Ferries or whatever they like, but the shamrock and the Irish should be dropped as it's clear misrepresentation if they're flying under a flag of convenience.

pete

Bloodychancer wrote:

No it would be similar to Dell putting an Indian Flag over the Factory then sacking all its Irish Based workers and hiring in people who are so desperate for work that they would work for less than 4 euro an hour (ie below the minimum wage) and have none of the protections offered to Irish workers.

It's nothing of the sort. If Dell were to do this they'd be subject to Irish employment law and all it entails. If they were to close their Irish operation in favour of offshoring the jobs to India / Latvia / whereever then you'd have a valid comparison.

What Irish Ferries are doing is playing into the hands of the Racists and anti immigration types by allowing them to play on the fears people have of job security etc

Right on.

pete

netwhizkid wrote:

I agree with the op, I am in favour of savagely curtailing immigration into Ireland

How exactly would curtailing immigration have any effect on the Irish Ferries situation?

billy the squid

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4473508.stm from the BBC

Im not well versed on the Law of the Sea or any of that sort of stuff. I read people saying that the ships are governed by the law of whichever flag they happen to be flying, but the company of Irish ferries surely has a certificate of incorporation at Dublin Castle. would this not mean that it has to adhere to employment law in this country, namely legislation on redundancy?

oscarBravo

netwhizkid wrote:

I am in favour of savagely curtailing immigration into Ireland... snip incoherent rant.

Your concern for eastern Europeans is touching. Only genuine and heartfelt human kindness could give rise to the kind of logic that would protect (potential) immigrants from exploitation by Irish Ferries - by denying them access to better-paid jobs in Ireland.

Bravo. Well done.

the_syco

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/6835888?view=Eircomnet

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif]Port workers at Dublin and Rosslare have said they will turn away the Irish Ferries vessel, MV Normandy, if it tries to dock in either port.

Heh. Pawned. Lets see how they continue to offer services to Ireland, if no-one allows them in.
[/FONT]

Cork

dirtyharry1971 wrote:

I just think it's sick that Irish Ferries managed to get away with this. It's outrageous!!!!

Shops are also selling goods from goods produced in countries paying workers a pittance.

Are we going to start boycotting these shops?

SIPTU are not being consistant here.

pete

Cork wrote:

Shops are also selling goods from goods produced in countries paying workers a pittance.

Are we going to start boycotting these shops?

SIPTU are not being consistant here.

well obviously it's all the union's fault.

Cork

well obviously it's all the union's fault.

It is not.

Not is it the fault of Ryanair who are competing aganist ferry companies.

Many jobs have left this country and moved else where.

It did not start with Irish Ferries.

[sticks oar in...] Will the market not decide the fate of Irish ferries? ie if the public are outraged they simply wont travel with them? [/oar moves...]

I'd agree with the poster who suggested that this should be resolved by agreements that ships travelling between countries in the E.U should be subject to EU labour laws.

That might only resolve one thing though-the ships would be crewed legally by non unionised staff on the exact minimum wage.

A part of the problem is the holy grail of cheap air travel.
Prior to the advent of cheap air travel ferry companies had the market pretty much sowed up and now they dont.


I remember Tony Blair in the last couple of weeks being grilled about environmental polution iirc by a commons committee and he said "hands up how many of you would vote to end cheap air travel?" none did.

So I go back to where I stuck the oar in... do you think people will stop using ferries because of this ?
I think I already know the answer to the question of what would happen if the ferries had to raise fares due to rising labour costs-yes simple market economic-the answer is , thats one way they would lose customers.
They are doing this at the moment because they can.
Whether they get away with it,is down to the sometimes fickle[read: self interested/selfish uninterested] public.

netwhizkid

If the workers had guts, they would scuttle the ships. But then "they" would be the baddies. I hope No-one ever again uses Irish Ferries and the government sets-up a new National Ferry service owned by the people for the people. I hope the people pickets their offices too. Bonded labour has no place in
Ireland. and one of the main reasons for all this is Michael O'Leary, If the people went so tight and Ryanair never were successful Low-Fares would never have come about. But them shot of cowboys will soon get their comeuppance when one of their planes crash, Have anyone ever read of their dismal maintenance and safety record? Do a Google search or here on boards. Low-fares should never come about at the expense of the worker or the customers service.

Macmorris

netwhizkid wrote:

The progressive Democrats are now doing almost an equal amount of damage to this country as the British did. Mary Harney should be indicted for high treason and be made serve her whole life in Magdalene Laundry type conditions.

How are you so sure that the PDs are to blame for the immigration problem? I'm not a big fan of Mary Harney but I seem to remember that she made a big deal a few years ago about companies having to prove that they tried to fill their jobs with Irish workers before they applied for work-permits for foreign workers. I find it hard to believe that she was behind the decision to have no restrictions on eastern immigration. I think it was Brian Cowen, the minister of foreign affairs at the time, who was responsible for that inspired decision.

pete wrote:

How exactly would curtailing immigration have any effect on the Irish Ferries situation?

It might not have any effect on the Irish Ferries case but it will prevent the same thing happening with other jobs within Ireland. What's happening with Irish Ferries is not just a one-off. This as just the beginning of a race to the bottom in the Irish labour market. There are thousands of low-paid jobs, particularly in manufacturing, that will be at greater risk because of what's happening with Irish Ferries. Companies that could survive alright by employing Irish people at a comfortable wage will now have an incentive to cut costs by employing foreigners at a much lower rate. The result will be either fewer jobs for low-skilled Irish people or the gradual lowering of wages for those people Irish people who have to compete with the immigrants.

By cutting off immigration we can deny those companies a pool of cheap labour so that they won't be able to threaten their Irish workers. The more immigrants we have in this country who will work for less than what what Irish people will work for, the less secure will be the jobs of the low-payed Irish workers. Unless we cut down on immigration (I read that we have four times as many, per head of population, as America), in a few years I can predict that the minimum wage will become the only wage available for the low-skilled workers in this country.

Victor

netwhizkid wrote:

If the workers had guts, they would scuttle the ships.

I don't think merchant ships are design to be scuttled.

I'd like to congratuate you on encouraging others to do this, rather than do it yourself. You armchair admiral.

Hagar

While I feel sorry for the poor bastards queueing up willingly to be exploited I support the unions on this one.

Charity begins at home. If you can call a fair day's pay for a fair day's work charity.

Cork

Macmorris wrote:

This as just the beginning of a race to the bottom in the Irish labour market.

I agree. We saw it this week with the Irish suger beet farmers being sold out.

The Irish economy is uncompetitive. The cost base in this country is high.

It is going well on the back of borrowing and the construction industry.

We live in a global economy where companies can easily up root and move on.

Bloodychancer

pete wrote:

It's nothing of the sort. If Dell were to do this they'd be subject to Irish employment law and all it entails. If they were to close their Irish operation in favour of offshoring the jobs to India / Latvia / whereever then you'd have a valid comparison.



.

Except Irish Ferries are not moving or closing their operation they will still operate from Irish ports to the UK and France
Again the solution is Obvious Irish ferries should have to operate to the standards laid down by one of the 3 countries they operate to.

Bloodychancer

Earthman wrote:

[sticks oar in...] Will the market not decide the fate of Irish ferries? ie if the public are outraged they simply wont travel with them? [/oar moves...]

I'd agree with the poster who suggested that this should be resolved by agreements that ships travelling between countries in the E.U should be subject to EU labour laws.

That might only resolve one thing though-the ships would be crewed legally by non unionised staff on the exact minimum wage.
.

It would mean they were in the same situation as any Irish company instead of being able to pick a flag that allows them to exploit immigrants with no choice but to accept the terms offered by Irish Ferries.

At the moment any Irish comapny could sack its entire work force and replace them with cheap EU immigrant labour. Not many have chosen to take that path for various reasons.

Irish Ferries is in the position that it can pay below minimum wage and it will house the workers on Board the ship so that they can not find alternative employment. nor will they be subject to various Health and safety legislation protecting Irish based workers.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cork wrote:

The Irish economy is uncompetitive. The cost base in this country is high.

.

You reckon people in Ireland are paid too much for the work that they do? I reckon it is not enough to have a good standard of living in Ireland. How do we square that circle? Do you think you get paid too much?

Threads merged

Title changed slightly

Hibernian2005

As someone who voted Yes in both Nice referenda, I now wish I hadn't. We were warned by the No side of a influx of cheap labour and the consequent loss of Irish jobs. We should have believed it it was true.

The Government should not have vetoed the EU Ferries Directive last year. If passed it would have imposed uniform labour standards regardless of nationality for ferry crews. I hear it's coming back again. Bertie must support it this time. I am normally an admirer of the PD's but as they have been silent on this issue, I am considering voting for Labour if the Government does nothing to stop displacement and as Labour is now criticising the taking of Irish jobs by cheap labour. However, one thing holding me back from voting Labour is the contradiction between their sentiments against this displacement while simultaneously, their demands for a more liberal immigration system. They seem contradictory.

We cannot separate this issue of Irish Ferries from immigration, because without immigration migrant workers would not be replacing Irish ones.

Victor

Hibernian2005 wrote:

They seem contradictory.

Hardly, they welcome immigrants, subject to everyone being paid the appropriate wages.

Hibernian2005

Victor wrote:

Hardly, they welcome immigrants, subject to everyone being paid the appropriate wages.

But you have to know how doing one is incompatible with the other in the real world. The more immigrants you bring in, the harder it is to pinpoint cases of exploitation. Also, many immigrants are fearful of blowing the whistle. They are perfectly willing to work for less than Irish people because we earn about 20 times what they would have at home on average. In particular, note the GDP per capita of Lithuania at around $2,000.

IF is likely to be the tip of the iceberg. The truth has been revealed as to why employers are always ranting on about their "need for immigrant labour". If we really do need immigrant labour then we can start by offering the jobs to Irish emigrants who will work for a fair rate, as they would have to be to be enticed back to Ireland.

BuffyBot

If the workers had guts, they would scuttle the ships. But then "they" would be the baddies.

Yes, they would. Not really that hard to differeniate between "good things to do", "questionable things to do" and "very bad things to do", is it?

I hope No-one ever again uses Irish Ferries and the government sets-up a new National Ferry service owned by the people for the people.

Yeah, because B&I worked out so well. And that was before the days of low-cost air travel.

I hope the people pickets their offices too. Bonded labour has no place in Ireland. and one of the main reasons for all this is Michael O'Leary, If the people went so tight and Ryanair never were successful Low-Fares would never have come about. But them shot of cowboys will soon get their comeuppance when one of their planes crash, Have anyone ever read of their dismal maintenance and safety record? Do a Google search or here on boards. Low-fares should never come about at the expense of the worker or the customers service.

Do you believe everything you read on the interwebnet? Because, you really, really shouldn't.

Hibernian2005

I hope No-one ever again uses Irish Ferries and the government sets-up a new National Ferry service owned by the people for the people.

I agree that we should boycott them. But a state-owned ferry service is not the answer. The answer is a combination of the abortive EU Ferries Directive being returned for Council of Ministers' consideration (our government blocked it), tough enforcement of labour laws (including a vast increase in the pathetic number of inspectors - 31 is not enough), and tighter controls on legal immigration from poor countries where the labour coming in is willing to work for vastly less than Irish people.

This is not just going on in IF. It is also widespread in the construction industry. Use your ears when passing a construction site and you'll soon realise that.

Bloodychancer

Hibernian2005 wrote:

I agree that we should boycott them. But a state-owned ferry service is not the answer. The answer is a combination of the abortive EU Ferries Directive being returned for Council of Ministers' consideration (our government blocked it), tough enforcement of labour laws (including a vast increase in the pathetic number of inspectors - 31 is not enough), and tighter controls on legal immigration from poor countries where the labour coming in is willing to work for vastly less than Irish people.

This is not just going on in IF. It is also widespread in the construction industry. Use your ears when passing a construction site and you'll soon realise that.

This is exactly the reason why Irish Ferries or any company should not indulge in exploiting immigrants because it plays into the hands of people like yourself

The Fact is that most of the immigrants including apparently the people Irish Ferries are trying to exploit are from other EU countries and have a right to be here
Admittedly most other EU countries will not allow the people from the most recent states to join to work in their own countries the Irish Government took a different tack. I have no problem with people coming to this country as long as they are treated the same as every other worker.
It is not the immigrants fault that they are being exploited by greedy bastards like IF it is the Governments fault for not protecting all workers an example of which is the laughably small number of Labour Inspectors.
Of course none of this is a surprise as the PD tail that wags the FF dog never had any interest in the welfare of New entrant potential migrants the only reason that they allowed these people in was to provide cheap labour to their friends in Big business.

Bloodychancer

Cork wrote:

I agree. We saw it this week with the Irish suger beet farmers being sold out.

The Irish economy is uncompetitive. The cost base in this country is high.

It is going well on the back of borrowing and the construction industry.

We live in a global economy where companies can easily up root and move on.

well if Irish Ferries were interested in lowering the " Cost Base" a good place to start would be the CEO who earned 680,000 euros last year.
It makes me laugh when I hear this cost base bull**** being wheeled out how come the Cost Base lowering only applies to the people on 30 to 40,000 a year.

Next time one of these economists wheels out the cost base Bull**** someone should ask how much of his salary he is giving up to help lower the cost base.


BTW Irish Ferries made a profit of 10 million euro last year this is not a company that is on its knees by any stretch of the imagination.
And the Bull**** about low cost airlines the days of ferries being an alternative to Airlines are over they are competing in two different markets until you can drive a 40 foot truck on to an airplane or bring your car on the plane.

pete

pete wrote:

How exactly would curtailing immigration have any effect on the Irish Ferries situation?

Macmorris wrote:

It might not have any effect on the Irish Ferries case but it will prevent the same thing happening with other jobs within Ireland.

Well ok then chicken little, how about we lose that whole "THE SKY IS FALLING! IMMIGRATION IS TO BLAME!" guff until you can actually build something approximating a causal relationship between the two?

thanks.

Solair

This has nothing to do with the EU at all. It's a bahamas registered vessel operating under bahamas labour law!
What's EU expansion got to do with it?!

maccor

i think this is only the beginning. I agree that this has been facilitated by the YES vote in the nice agreement a few years back. Yet another reason on why the current government just sucks, since they convinced too many people to vote YES and paved the way for this crap

maccor

Solair wrote:

This has nothing to do with the EU at all. It's a bahamas registered vessel operating under bahamas labour law!
What's EU expansion got to do with it?!

then they should feck off and call themselves bahamas ferries then

Hobbes

maccor wrote:

then they should feck off and call themselves bahamas ferries then

Absolutly. They should change the Irish tourist board to "The Polish Tourist Board" as well as the majority in the ITB are not Irish.

Funny though about the immigration malarky though. BBC did a documentry the other day and found that a large majority of UK businesses employed Polish workers and found them to be excellent workers and would work jobs that the Brits would turn thier noses up at.

but as mentioned The Ferries has nothing to do with Nice.

pete

maccor wrote:

I agree that this has been facilitated by the YES vote in the nice agreement a few years back.

How?

Dilly1

The Ferry company have found a way to keep themselves competitive by exploiting a loophole, If only people were taught in school that if you decide to become an employee rather than a business owner, you must accept the fact that someday you will become surplus to requirements and let go.

A Dub in Glasgo

If everybody was a business owner, there would be nobody to make profit from

oscarBravo

Customers?

Dilly1

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If everybody was a business owner, there would be nobody to make profit from

If everybody stood on one side of the world at the same time... I could go on

ronbyrne2005

the eastern european workers are being exploited
the eastern european workers arent being exploited! why are they so eager to work on this ship? ok the may only get 4 euro an hour but they get transport to/from ship they get accomodation and free food , all that 4euro is disposable income, they can earn twice as much on the ship as they could in their own country.
if irish ferries doesnt change its cost base it faces bankruptcy , things had to change as all their competitors did,cruise ships have been doing this for decades employing cheap asian labour and operating from american and european ports.
im sure most people on here accept market principles when their house goes up in value or their wages rise due to productivity or promotion, what is happening at irish ferries s merely a reflection of the globalised free market,get over it,we took the jobs of americans when dell ,financial services jobs moved here,dont be hypocrites.it mighnt seem like a nice thing to do but irish ferries have no choice and merely took advantage of marine law(which the irish of european parliments cant change as its outside their jurisdiction etc) to save the company.
low air fares and increased competition led to the competitve disadvantage at irish ferries,so you the consumer are in a way responsibe.
this is a quirk in the law and is impossible of being incorporated into any other business except maybe aviation but im not sure, so all the scare mongering is erroneous,there will not be "yellow pack"jobs in the rest of the economy,
as to using the name irish ferries its just a name,there is nothing to stop some somali ferry firm operating in ireland and calling itself ferries of ireland,the name is just a historical legacy of the state ownership

ronbyrne2005

sunday times article
"It is a moment that challenges everyone, on all sides, to declare on the side of decency, social dialogue and constructive engagement, or on the side of thuggery, brutality and the law of the jungle,” claims Jack O’Connor, the general president of Siptu. Who could possibly disagree with his emotional analysis of the Irish Ferries dispute? Apparently, very few.
Sympathy for the plight of the “embattled” workers poured forth from RTE, the state-owned broadcaster, while politicians queued to wring their hands at the unfairness of it all. Friday’s Morning Ireland, the country’s most popular radio programme, gave us interviews with an electrical officer who was barricaded in the Isle of Inishmore’s control room; with an officer on shore leave (as they all are for more than six months of the year); with a trade union official who would not rule out a blockade of Irish ports; with Tony Killeen, a junior minister, who thought it was all very terrible but didn’t think he could do much about it.



This deluge of emotion was “balanced” by an interview with Alf McGrath of Irish Ferries. Instead of gentle questions about how he felt about it all, McGrath was pounced upon. How do you justify your tactics? Are you spoiling for a fight? Are air supplies being cut off? Is this the Irish Wapping? The questions played to a simplistic, and false, interpretation of the dispute: nasty capitalists placing their jackboots on the throats of the poor workers, locking them out of their rightful employment and threatening to starve them of oxygen. Who wouldn’t be moved by such a story of exploitation and intimidation? Well, me, for one.

To understand what is happening at Irish Ferries you have to unravel some interwoven strands. On one level, this is a simple tale of a company that is running out of time. In two years, or less, it will be out of business because the costs of running its ferry services across the Irish Sea are too high. Its problems this year, and next, have been exacerbated by the sharp rise in the price of fuel, but its business was already doomed by high labour costs and falling demand for passenger services.

To survive, it had to cut costs. Like 95% of the other ships that use Irish ports, it decided to replace its Irish workers with cheaper agency workers. Generous redundancy terms were offered to staff — some will receive more than €300,000 — and the plan was put to a vote. More than 90% accepted the terms, and cannot wait to get their hands on the money. The small number who wanted to keep their jobs were offered reduced terms, but still better than those already agreed to by Siptu for Irish Ferries’ service to France. A small minority opted, as they have before, for conflict.

If the plan proceeds, Irish Ferries has a reasonable chance of survival. That’s good news for the 250 shore-based jobs that rely on it, and good news for the Irish economy, which relies on Irish Ferries to provide a freight service. If the plan fails, the ships will be sold, all jobs will be lost and the money left for redundancies significantly reduced.

The replacement crew, hired by an outside agency, will earn substantially less than the Irish seafarers. They will be paid, we are told, about €4 an hour, just over half the Irish minimum wage. “Slave wages,” cry the unions, but rarely mentioned is the fact the wages are tax free, and that the new workers get accommodation and food, as well as transport to and from the ships.

They will earn substantially more than the minimum wage in many European countries, and far more than the minimum wage in their own. They could instead come to the Irish mainland and earn more in gross pay, but then pay our taxes, and our Rip-Off republic living costs. Instead they opted for the high seas.

Irish Ferries can do this because it is a shipping company, operating under different rules to the rest of the Irish economy. It is coming into line with competitors, and will comply with the International Transport Federation’s agreed rates of pay. That is the nature of the shipping business, and we have chosen not to alter it.

Sporadic attempts to introduce a European directive that would force shipping companies to pay their workers the minimum wage that applied in their home country, or in one of the countries served by their operations, have failed to get off the ground. It is an international market, with very moveable assets, and it is simply dumb to expect one company to operate to a set of rules that do not apply to its competitors.

Which is where we get the next level of the dispute, which is political and much more dangerous. Disingenuously, O’Connor and his comrades have tried to propagate the myth that what is happening in Irish Ferries will soon happen in your place of work. Their battle cry is workers’ rights, and they are trying to browbeat the government into introducing legislation that will throttle the economy and drive away the foreign investment that has fuelled so much of this country’s boom.

They want the Labour court, which operates under a voluntary code, to be given legislative teeth so that it can force solutions on companies. Some of the comrades want curbs on immigration; others want even more restrictive labour laws. Try selling that to Dell or Intel or Microsoft and see how long they stay put.

O’Connor’s ace, so he thinks, is social partnership: if Bertie Ahern’s government does not play ball on labour legislation, then he and the comrades will pull the plug and plunge the country into chaos. It is a ritualistic threat; one that rears up when it’s time to renegotiate the partnership, and Irish Ferries has become the unions’ whipping boy.

So they talk of blockading the ports, and threaten a day of national protest. Ships are seized by union members and O’Connor mans the barricades. And all because more than 90% of the employees of a private company have voted to accept a redundancy package that is more generous than the one put forward by Aer Lingus, a state-owned company, last year.

It is a nonsense; where were the barricades when the rest of the shipping companies outsourced their workers? Yet it is allowed to gain credibility because the state-owned broadcaster, itself dominated by trade unions, is prepared to present Siptu’s disingenuous case as if it were the unvarnished truth.
But Siptu and its allies are fighting for relevance, not for the rights of Irish Ferries’ workers, or for the foreign workers who will replace them. Ireland’s trade unions dominate the public service, but are increasingly irrelevant in the private sector that drives our prosperity. They have enjoyed the prominence that social partnership has delivered: the access to government, the participation in endless committees, the sense of power that comes from being at the centre — but it has not halted their decline.
Instead of re-inventing themselves, the unions have regressed: they seem to think that confrontation will draw recruits to their steadily dwindling ranks.



The threat to abandon social partnership is real, and it worries Ahern, who worships consensus. He will be desperate to appease the unions, but he is not on solid ground. His coalition partners in the Progressive Democrats will refuse concessions that hobble the labour market, and this is no time to go to the country.

Ahern cannot bend Irish Ferries to his will — unless he proposes buying it back — and he may yet be forced to face down a union blockade of the Irish export market. Tough times for a man who struggles to make a decision, but he will need to be tough.

The taoiseach can afford to abandon the paraphernalia of social partnership — the embrace of the unions that puts them into positions of influence — but he still needs a mechanism to negotiate public- sector pay and public-sector reform. It is a delicate game, but one that he needs to win because the pretence that trade unions have any relevance outside the public sector must end.

The Irish Ferries dispute demonstrates precisely how disproportionate their power and influence have become. A private company that faces extinction is being prevented from rescuing itself, not because its employees object, but because the leadership of the trade union movement wants a cause with which it can blackmail the government.

So pick your side carefully. The real thuggery and intimidation comes not from a company that wants to survive, and which is backed by its employees, but from a trade union movement that is prepared to threaten the government and imperil the economy because its powers are waning. The last sting of a dying wasp? Let’s hope so.

ronbyrne2005

plus the eastern european workers get their wages tax free!

billy the squid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

the eastern european workers are being exploited
the eastern european workers arent being exploited! why are they so eager to work on this ship? ok the may only get 4 euro an hour but they get transport to/from ship they get accomodation and free food , all that 4euro is disposable income, they can earn twice as much on the ship as they could in their own country.
if irish ferries doesnt change its cost base it faces bankruptcy , things had to change as all their competitors did,cruise ships have been doing this for decades employing cheap asian labour and operating from american and european ports.

Then why didnt the head of Irish ferries take a cut in his wages and benefits when the workers did. €600,000 is a ****load of money. Could you live on €4 an hour? why don't you try it.

im sure most people on here accept market principles when their house goes up in value or their wages rise due to productivity or promotion, what is happening at irish ferries s merely a reflection of the globalised free market,get over it,

What Irish Ferries are doing is illegal under employment legislation, it is illegal to sack someone and replace them with someone taking a lower wage. The position has to be being made redundant, not the person. The ship operates out of Ireland, it brands itself as Irish so it should have respect for Irish law.

we took the jobs of americans when dell ,financial services jobs moved here,dont be hypocrites.it mighnt seem like a nice thing to do but irish ferries have no choice and merely took advantage of marine law(which the irish of european parliments cant change as its outside their jurisdiction etc) to save the company

Firstly your comments are about Dell are bollox to be honest. We did not take any US jobs when Dell expanded here as Dell does not manufacture any products destined for the US market in ireland. This is done in Austin Texas by American workers.. When Dell started up in Liemrick (castletroy) it had 150 workers, both their plants in Austin Texas and their plants here in Liemrick expanded from what were very small workforces. Also, while wages at dell are pretty ****, they are above the minimum wage.

Secondly, there is a whole rake of US states which do not have a minimum wage, and any american company had a choice of states to set up in over there before deciding to come here.

Most of the companies came here, not because it was cheaper, but because of the location in europe, our high level of education etc. and you will also find that they are bound by the minimum wage laws of this country.

low air fares and increased competition led to the competitve disadvantage at irish ferries,so you the consumer are in a way responsibe.
this is a quirk in the law and is impossible of being incorporated into any other business except maybe aviation but im not sure, so all the scare mongering is erroneous,there will not be "yellow pack"jobs in the rest of the economy,
as to using the name irish ferries its just a name,there is nothing to stop some somali ferry firm operating in ireland and calling itself ferries of ireland,the name is just a historical legacy of the state ownership

The workers are Irish citezens, they should be protected by Irish law, Irish Ferries (should have) a certificate of incorporation in Ireland therefore (if it does) it should abide by Irish Law, Irish ferries has its HQ in Ireland, therefore it should abide by Irish law.

plus the eastern european workers get their wages tax free!

so not only is this setup hurting the workers, it is also hurting the exchequer.

The PESP, Partnership 2000, and PPF are what made this country a success, what irish ferries are trying to do is pull over 20 years of hard work apart.