What's up with the Ancients?

mcgarnicle

Ok I am a bit confused. We know that the Ancients left our galaxy about 2 million years ago after the plague and then went to Pegasus. We know that the war with the Wraith ended about 10,000 years ago, meaning that the Ancients in Pegasus should have been about 2 million years more advanced than the Ancients in our galaxy. So why did their technology stay the same, if not regress? Why are all these super weapons, ie the weapon on D'akara so much more advanced than anything we have seen in Atlantis. Surely if they could make a weapon that could wipe out the Replicators throughout the galaxy 2 million years ago they could make something to take on the Wraith. From what I can tell the Wraith are, if anything, below the Go'uld technologically.So why did they beat the Ancients? Why did the Ancient technology apparantly regress once they got to Pegasus? I know people will say it was about population etc. but I don't really buy that, I think the writers have gotten the Ancient storyline so convoluted and bizarre at this stage that it is verging on ridiculous.

cooperguy

Im guessing they went to pegasus and ended up straight away in a war with the wraith. This gave them no time to develop new technology as they were under constant attack and every resource they had was put into just surviving, then they did the whole asention thing and they had no need for technology

Cy_Revenant

cooperguy wrote:

Im guessing they went to pegasus and ended up straight away in a war with the wraith. This gave them no time to develop new technology as they were under constant attack and every resource they had was put into just surviving, then they did the whole asention thing and they had no need for technology

I don't think that was it. In the first season of Atlantis they hinted strongly at the fact that the Wraith evolved after the Ancients came to the Pegasus galaxy. It was also suggested that the ancients may have had a hand in creating the Wraith.

mcgarnicle

cooperguy wrote:

Im guessing they went to pegasus and ended up straight away in a war with the wraith. This gave them no time to develop new technology as they were under constant attack and every resource they had was put into just surviving, then they did the whole asention thing and they had no need for technology

But first they populated worlds with humans and then from one of these worlds the Wraith emerged as a merging of the irratus bugs and humans, this would probably have taken a million or so years. But even if they were at war from the beginning, it still doesn't explain why they did not use their super weapons to stop the wraith.

senordingdong

No, it was hinted that the Wriath did evolve rapidly and come to power rapidly.

We are yet to see how or why but we were told they did.

And the ancients didn't leave our galaxy two million years ago.
They left 10,000 years ago...in Atlantis.

mcgarnicle

senordingdong wrote:

No, it was hinted that the Wriath did evolve rapidly and come to power rapidly.

We are yet to see how or why but we were told they did.

And the ancients didn't leave our galaxy two million years ago.
They left 10,000 years ago...in Atlantis.

No they didn't, they left 2 million years ago. They returned 10,000 years ago. Evolving from insects to a race to defeat a civilisation that could be hundreds of millions of years old, in less than a million years is quite rapid.

senordingdong

No....at the beginning of Atlantis pilot episode, we see a scene, with the caption '10,000 years ago', in which we see Atlantis fly away from the Antartic.

Yes we know that the Wriath thing is quite rapid, but that's how the writers wrote it...and said they will explain it, probably in this season.

JustHalf

Actually, the text is "Several Million Years Ago". Have it on freeze-frame right here.

mcgarnicle

senordingdong wrote:

No....at the beginning of Atlantis pilot episode, we see a scene, with the caption '10,000 years ago', in which we see Atlantis fly away from the Antartic.

Yes we know that the Wriath thing is quite rapid, but that's how the writers wrote it...and said they will explain it, probably in this season.

No it didn't say 10,000 years ago.

Maybe they will explain how the wraith evolved so quickly, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was curious as to what people thought about the fact that ancient technology seems far more advanced in our galaxy than in pegassus, even though they were in Pegasus millions of years after our galaxy.

bizmark

So why did they beat the Ancients?

Perhaps they (the anicents) had a very small but very advanced navy which simply got over run 1,000 to 1 by the wraith even the clearly superior earth ship (thanks to its asguard shields) couldn’t stand up to an entire fleet for long.

And its not that stupid when you think about it thors ship could cross the distance between galaxies in something like an hour if you have that kind of speed with more advanced weapons than anyone else you wouldn’t need a massive fleet to respond to attack's a very small fleet of maybe 100 or so ship's could patrol a whole galaxy with no problem so personal i think the ancients just got over confident with their uber weapons didn’t have enough and couldnt produce them when it mattered......Like Germany in ww2 ....ish

Reku

I thought it was that when they evacuated Atlantis they fled back to earth, then later ascended?
Hence how that timeship puddle-jumper, built by one of the Ancients from Atlantis, ended up back in our part of the galaxy.

AnCapaillMor

How come wraith technology has'nt advanced in 10,000 years are they stupid or something.

mcgarnicle

AnCapaillMor wrote:

How come wraith technology has'nt advanced in 10,000 years are they stupid or something.

No they were hibernating.

Cy_Revenant

In regards to the wraith evolving in such a short time,
I believe it was also implied that the wraith evolved after feeding off of the ancient DNA

Could be wrong on this part though.

mcgarnicle

Cy_Revenant wrote:

In regards to the wraith evolving in such a short time,
I believe it was also implied that the wraith evolved after feeding off of the ancient DNA

Could be wrong on this part though.

Yeah that makes sense, maybe they could have gotten some genetic memory thing like the gould. Would explain alot.

Scruff

If prior to the Wraith the Ancients had no enemies that could threaten them, why would they waste time and energy continually developing weapons? They probably didnt and then got caught with their pants down when the wraith evolved rapidly.

senordingdong

JustHalf wrote:

Actually, the text is "Several Million Years Ago". Have it on freeze-frame right here.

My bad excuse me.

But that means, they went to pegasus several million years ago, and lost the war ten thousand years ago.
Not too short a time to get their asses whopped.

Mantel

If the wraith evolved in short time they could have taken knowledge from the Ancients. After all there some of the ancients seem to wander about setting up labs and building things all over the place in our galaxy, stands to reason they'd do the same elsewhere and an ancient on their own would be easier to "nibble" on. In the first episode when Colonel Sumner got the life sucked out of him the wraith gained some of his knowledge so they could have had a basic knowledge to build ships and other stuff.

DingChavez

Atlantis left Earth sometime when the Plague appared. The weapon on Dakara must have been built around the same time as Atlantis. Maybe they got help from already Ascended ancients........

User45701

Mantel wrote:

If the wraith evolved in short time they could have taken knowledge from the Ancients. After all there some of the ancients seem to wander about setting up labs and building things all over the place in our galaxy, stands to reason they'd do the same elsewhere and an ancient on their own would be easier to "nibble" on. In the first episode when Colonel Sumner got the life sucked out of him the wraith gained some of his knowledge so they could have had a basic knowledge to build ships and other stuff.

No she sucked the life from him after she extraced info from him through some mental thing queens seemed to be able to do that but that stupid bitch on the last hive in episode 211 probbley forgot that wraith can do that.

DingChavez wrote:

Atlantis left Earth sometime when the Plague appared. The weapon on Dakara must have been built around the same time as Atlantis. Maybe they got help from already Ascended ancients........

The ancients left the milkey way because of the plauge went to pegasus then lived there had great crack populating new worlds they where loved by all then thw wraith evolved on **** big war but the wraith take all plants except for the one athlantis is on then big final battle in which

"The Lantians send a diplomatic envoy excorted by there most powerfull ships in the faint hope of negoating pease but the wraith where so many.... after that last great battle there was nothing left so the lantians retreated through there gate in the hope one day there kind would return"

When they retured to earth "they created the device on Dakara to recreate life in the milkey way after the whole plauge thing" they either means surivors of atlantis or survivors of the plague in the milkey way

The_Goose

"The Lantians send a diplomatic envoy excorted by there most powerfull ships in the faint hope of negoating pease but the wraith where so many.... after that last great battle there was nothing left so the lantians retreated through there gate in the hope one day there kind would return"

Where was this extracted from?

User45701

The_Goose wrote:

"The Lantians send a diplomatic envoy excorted by there most powerfull ships in the faint hope of negoating pease but the wraith where so many.... after that last great battle there was nothing left so the lantians retreated through there gate in the hope one day there kind would return"

Where was this extracted from?

the epiode in season 1 Episode name: "Before I Sleep" (the 1 with the future Dr.Weir)
Great Episode, Weir said It btw

edit: i left a bit out **-**

"The Lantians send a diplomatic envoy excorted by there most powerfull ships in the faint hope of negoating pease **one on 1 the lantian ships where more powerfull** but the wraith where so many.... after that last great battle there was nothing left so the lantians retreated through there gate in the hope one day there kind would return"

The_Goose

Ok form last nights episode, so the Ori were religious nuts, and the Latians more science based. The Ori start a war in their galaxy with the latians, so they come here. THe build the device on dekara, go to atlantis, fight the wraith, lose, come back here, get the plague and ascend!!
That sound right to you guys?

senordingdong

Thuigim.

mcgarnicle

User45701 wrote:

When they retured to earth "they created the device on Dakara to recreate life in the milkey way after the whole plauge thing" they either means surivors of atlantis or survivors of the plague in the milkey way

I doubt that, unless you are saying that all races in the milky way are meant to have evolved in the past 10,000 years. I'd say it was built either just before or at the same time Atlantis was built ie. several million years ago.

mcgarnicle

The_Goose wrote:

Ok form last nights episode, so the Ori were religious nuts, and the Latians more science based. The Ori start a war in their galaxy with the latians, so they come here. THe build the device on dekara, go to atlantis, fight the wraith, lose, come back here, get the plague and ascend!!
That sound right to you guys?

I think it is more like, the Alterans leave their home to the Ori as both are on alternate paths, they come to our galaxy, live here for millions of years, get the plague (I believe it is at this point they begin to ascend). After that the remaining ancients build the weapon on Dakara to restart life in this galaxy and then leave this galaxy on Atlantis. Then they have a war with the wraith and come back to earth. At this point we are looking at a few hundred, maybe a few thousand ancients. Some mix in with the humans (stories of road builders in Rome, lost city in Greece and Camelot in England), while others do some research etc, Janus' time ship is seen in that ep where maybourne is the king. But they probably get tired of this existence and most ascend.

senordingdong

One thing I'm not getting....the plague they were dieing from is supposed to be the same one the Ori use.

I don't see how the Ori could have given it to them if the Ancients were hiding the existence of the milky way from the Ori.

mcgarnicle

senordingdong wrote:

One thing I'm not getting....the plague they were dieing from is supposed to be the same one the Ori use.

I don't see how the Ori could have given it to them if the Ancients were hiding the existence of the milky way from the Ori.

When did it say it was the same plague? Even if it was, the plague occured before the ancients ascended ie. before they had the ability to hide it from the Ori.

senordingdong

In the episode 'Frozen' in season 6, they find and ancient frozen in Antarctica and she has the plague and then Sg-1 get it.

Then in 'The Powers that Be', Dr.Lam says the two are identical or some such jibba jabba.

Yeah it happened before they ascended, but if that was the case, I'm sure the Ori would have noticed a galaxy just dissapering.

mcgarnicle

senordingdong wrote:

In the episode 'Frozen' in season 6, they find and ancient frozen in Antarctica and she has the plague and then Sg-1 get it.

I think she was the last to have the plague, that's why she was left behind. She cured the last of them but for some reason she could no be cured, or something like that anyway.

senordingdong wrote:

Then in 'The Powers that Be', Dr.Lam says the two are identical or some such jibba jabba.

Yeah it happened before they ascended, but if that was the case, I'm sure the Ori would have noticed a galaxy just dissapering.

Maybe they had a galaxy sized cloaking device, lets face it, it wouldn't be the most ridiculous piece of technology associated with the ancients.
I'm guessing that the Ori would not have been ascended at that point either, therefore they would not have been aware of the milky way. We are told that the Alterans were more interested in science and self improvement than the Ori were so it would make sense if the Alterans ascended before the Ori and hid the Milky Way before the Ori ascended and had the ability to sense all the humans there.

senordingdong

mcgarnicle wrote:

I think she was the last to have the plague, that's why she was left behind. She cured the last of them but for some reason she could no be cured, or something like that anyway.

Nah she used all her energy healing Sg-1 and then didn't have the strength to heal herself.

mcgarnicle wrote:

Maybe they had a galaxy sized cloaking device, lets face it, it wouldn't be the most ridiculous piece of technology associated with the ancients.
I'm guessing that the Ori would not have been ascended at that point either, therefore they would not have been aware of the milky way. We are told that the Alterans were more interested in science and self improvement than the Ori were so it would make sense if the Alterans ascended before the Ori and hid the Milky Way before the Ori ascended and had the ability to sense all the humans there.

The latter half makes sense....cloaking device? Pfh...

mcgarnicle

senordingdong wrote:

Nah she used all her energy healing Sg-1 and then didn't have the strength to heal herself.

She had the plague, isnt that how sg-1 got it in the first place? Anyway I was talking about why the Ancients left her on earth when they went to Pegasus.

senordingdong wrote:

The latter half makes sense....cloaking device? Pfh...

Device that can create/destroy life in an entire galaxy? Pfh...

senordingdong

Yeah she had and gave it to them, then she used her ancient healing powers but didn't have the strength left to help herself then.
I thought she was left behind to man the Atlantus outpost. Though it would make sense that she was chosen if she was sick.

I said pfh cos I just think it would make more sense that they were using their crazy ascended powers.

User45701

mcgarnicle wrote:

I doubt that, unless you are saying that all races in the milky way are meant to have evolved in the past 10,000 years. I'd say it was built either just before or at the same time Atlantis was built ie. several million years ago.

No Its is right the device was build after the plauge anubis said it himself

mcgarnicle wrote:

I think it is more like, the Alterans leave their home to the Ori as both are on alternate paths, they come to our galaxy, live here for millions of years, get the plague (I believe it is at this point they begin to ascend). After that the remaining ancients build the weapon on Dakara to restart life in this galaxy and then leave this galaxy on Atlantis. Then they have a war with the wraith and come back to earth. At this point we are looking at a few hundred, maybe a few thousand ancients. Some mix in with the humans (stories of road builders in Rome, lost city in Greece and Camelot in England), while others do some research etc, Janus' time ship is seen in that ep where maybourne is the king. But they probably get tired of this existence and most ascend.

Best therey ive heard so far

I would reley likt to see the furlings brought in at some stage i mean its been almost 10 years

mcgarnicle

User45701 wrote:

No Its is right the device was build after the plauge anubis said it himself

Yes after the plague, not after the ancients returned from the pegasus galaxy.

User45701 wrote:

I would reley likt to see the furlings brought in at some stage i mean its been almost 10 years

Same here but i think at this stage its part of the show to have not letting us see the Furlings as a running in joke.

User45701

probbley a jokeif they do bring them in as part of the joke it would be kool if they looked like tribbles very funny little things