"God told me to do it"

Rossonero

Was watching a crime drama on tv, and it was one of those classics when the murderer tries to fake insanity by claiming he heard voices from God, telling him to murder. They rarely get away with it.And then I hear George Bush say that God told him to invade Iraq! How can he get away with that?

HelterSkelter

The difference is George Bush is not trying to fake it!!

The Corinthian

Source?

davej

Rossonero wrote:

How can he get away with that?

eh, cos he is the President of the most powerful country in the world?

davej

davej

The Corinthian wrote:

Source?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

davej

ambro25

The difference is G.Bush is a global leader (not a reflection on his capacity, mind), so 'god' probably did tell him

The Corinthian

davej wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

I'm actually speechless...

Zombrex

Rossonero wrote:

How can he get away with that?

Because people in America accept that the president is one person God should be talking to.

I mean one of the reasons Bush was elected is because he is Born Again. It would worry more of his supporters if he said God never spoke to him

Gurgle

The Corinthian wrote:

I'm actually speechless...

Thats even more shocking than the story!

Tar.Aldarion

davej wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

davej

Simply worrying.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

"We're facing a radical ideology with unalterable objectives: to enslave whole nations and intimidate the world," he said.

yeah.. that's almost the exact opposite of what the us is doing these days.

I honestly don't see a problem with the world's most powerful man, the guy with his finger on the nuclear trigger, following the instructions of the voices in his head.

Memnoch

i'm shocked that anyone is actually surprised by this :P At this point you could tell me that Bush has been discovered to be an alien from the planet mars secretly plotting to destroy our planet and I wouldn't be surprised.

oscarBravo

The Corinthian wrote:

I'm actually speechless...

/oscarBravo takes a picture...

GuanYin

First the prophet Georgie W arrives....

The Corinthian wrote:

I'm actually speechless...

.....and now we have the second sign of the apocalypse....


surely the end of days is upon us.

jrey1981

I heard this a while ago - probably read it on the Guardian website or wherever

What struck me most was the hypocrisy - one rule for Christian extremists and another for Islam extremists...

Both have blood on their hands.

plonk

He is the most ignorant and unintelligent man on earth.

BrokenArrows

oh man how could he have said that.

"Sorry about posting the above but god told me to"

lol.

plonk

nice one pity george bush cant think of replies like that did you ever see where he had to answer the question about tribes and sovereign entities:eek:

J.R.HARTLEY

careful now it is the guardian after all

simu

Well, maybe this is his inarticulate and child-like yet US public-friendly way of saying he was following his conscience.

That or he could do with some psychiatric treatment.

bonkey

I'm guessing that Corinthian is speechless that a newspaper report of third-party, unconfirmed allegations that Bush said something like what was printed was described as "I hear George Bush say..."

But don't let me rain on anyone's parade. Hey...why not decide these unconfirmed allegations that brought about the threat of the Official Secrets Act yesterday are also something we've actually heard from the guy's mouth ourselves too???

jc

The Corinthian

bonkey wrote:

I'm guessing that Corinthian is speechless that a newspaper report of third-party, unconfirmed allegations that Bush said something like what was printed was described as "I hear George Bush say..."

No, but thank you for playing anyway.

plonk

plonk wrote:

He is the most ignorant and unintelligent man on earth.

Not really

wiseones2cents

It is Really sad. American Christians are one of the most brainwashed people around.

They believe bush is guided by GOD, when in fact he is guided by the opposite.If anything America is condemned by GOD and is headed for a major economic collapse.

wiseones2cents

wiseones2cents wrote:

It is Really sad. American Christians are one of the most brainwashed people around.

They believe bush is guided by GOD, when in fact he is guided by the opposite.If anything America is condemned by GOD and is headed for a major economic collapse.

source?

wiseones2cents

Deleted User wrote:

source?

Source of what? That many American Christians that support bush are in a world of their own or that the American Economy is on the verge of colapse?

I've been following the American Economy for some time now. It is sustained by robbing small countries out of its resources and causing wide spread poverty. Soon those countries are going to have enough and give America the big boot.

The revolution has already started in South America, and the Middle east. Watch and see. America has made too many enemies......

bonkey

wiseones2cents wrote:

Watch and see. America has made too many enemies......

Collapse of American Hegemony predicted.
Film at 11.

Hobbes

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

careful now it is the guardian after all

Which is citing a BBC documentry afair.

MrJoeSoap

Read a great book on "God" telling people to kill.

Its called "Under the Banner of Heaven" and written by the excellent Jon Krakauer.

wiseones2cents wrote:

They believe bush is guided by GOD, when in fact he is guided by the opposite.

Cheney?

bonkey

wiseones2cents wrote:

It is Really sad. American Christians are one of the most brainwashed people around.

They believe bush is guided by GOD, when in fact he is guided by the opposite.If anything America is condemned by GOD and is headed for a major economic collapse.

So its cooky to believe Bush is being guided by God, but perfectly reasonable to suggest America is condemned by same???

Well that makes sense.

RedPlanet

While not defending the idiot Bush, I suspect he really did say that in all earnestness to the Palestinians. I believe he probably felt he was speaking at their level. Which demonstrates just what type of idiot Bush really is.

wiseones2cents

bonkey wrote:

So its cooky to believe Bush is being guided by God, but perfectly reasonable to suggest America is condemned by same???

Well that makes sense.

The proof is in History. Look back at all the Imperial nations that over stepped their boundries and see what happened. America barely has enough troops to fight Iraq and they are planning to Attack Iran and Syria. If North Korea gets into to it, its going to get ugly. Not to mention the rest of the Middle east, Russia, China.......

wiseones2cents

RedPlanet wrote:

While not defending the idiot Bush, I suspect he really did say that in all earnestness to the Palestinians. I believe he probably felt he was speaking at their level. Which demonstrates just what type of idiot Bush really is.

P.S. There is no doubt bush is an idiot. Only in America can a man be a complete failure at all he does and be elected President. Thanks to media and b.s. propaganda.WHich are in the hands of the Elites that are really running the show. not that dunce bush. he couldn't run a lemonade stand.

Gurgle

wiseones2cents wrote:

Only in America can a man be a complete failure at all he does and be elected President.

(Twice)
And how can you call him a failure - he got elected & re-elected didn't he ?
And he has successfully taken over 2 middle eastern countries. (so far)

Not quite the save league, but don't we have a Bertie ?
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=189&docID=-1

His bio wrote:

Bertie Ahern, was re-elected Taoiseach on 6 June 2002, following a general election which saw his party Fianna Fáil returned to power in coalition with the Progressive Democrats. It was the first time an outgoing government was re-elected since1969.

Luckily he's a much less ambitious idiot than Bush, but still.

wiseones2cents

Gurgle wrote:

(Twice)
And how can you call him a failure - he got elected & re-elected didn't he ?
And he has successfully taken over 2 middle eastern countries. (so far)

He got elected twice because of the people running the show and the Methodist,Evangelist,Protestant right. SAY NO TO ABORTION AND GAYS But YES to War and Murder and starving and suffering........

Not too mention the newly introduced electronic voting machines. There was so much irregularities and frauds in those elections it wasnt funny. But the elites have the justice system in their pockets also.So that was quickly swept under the rug.

Most of the Americans are clueless and wouldn't know their enemy if he was standing right in front of them(Which he is).

The dumification of America has been in the worls for years through media spin,TV and music. As you can see, its working.

Successfully taken over two ME countries? I do not know how you judge successful, but in my eyes, he hasnt successfully did anything. The war is far from over and even if they were to gain the advantage. It would be only temporary.

Not to mention he mortaged his country to do it. If he doesn't secure Iraqi oil, America is finished. Their plans for expansion will be cut short.

bus77

I was just thinking. What would be the best way to tackle militant muslims whos main propaganda piece is "They are Godless...."?

hmm..

wiseones2cents

bus77 wrote:

I was just thinking. What would be the best way to tackle militant muslims whos main propaganda piece is "They are Godless...."?

hmm..

???I'd like you to elaborate.

lazydaisy

Wicknight wrote:

Because people in America accept that the president is one person God should be talking to.

I

No, it's because people in America arent even phased anymore by the nutty things he comes out with. He probably got confused between God and Rumsfeld.

Yes he's a failure but got elected twice and has "taken over" two ME countries. Also he's really stupid but also masterminded Sept 11. American is a godless nation full of fundamentalist christians. Uh huh.

Imperial nations: UK, France, Spain, Italy, Holland, Japan, what about them? They are all still standing. I dont know what you are trying to say? I guess its because Im from dumbed down america and am clueless? Please spell it out for this dummy. By the way are you from British or French Canada wiseone2cents?

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

No, it's because people in America arent even phased anymore by the nutty things he comes out with. He probably got confused between God and Rumsfeld.

Yes he's a failure but got elected twice and has "taken over" two ME countries. Also he's really stupid but also masterminded Sept 11. American is a godless nation full of fundamentalist christians. Uh huh.

Imperial nations: UK, France, Spain, Italy, Holland, Japan, what about them? They are all still standing. I dont know what you are trying to say? I guess its because Im from dumbed down america and am clueless? Please spell it out for this dummy. By the way are you from British or French Canada wiseone2cents?

When you understand that those Christian fundamentalist leaders have the people's money heavily invested in the American economy for their OWN selfish greed(rather than the poor). And America's economy was going south? You will understand why those fakes endorsed the war.

I'm From Toronto, Ontario so I dont know if you consider that British Canada or French.

P.S, Those are the same Imperialistic countries that I have down except I have Germany/Austria in the place of Holland. But Even though they all still have their hands in the cookie jar, there is only one leading the Imperialist thrust today and that is America. Thia Iraq war is About Expansion. It needs Expantion in order for it to survive. Capitalism has proven to be a Failure.

lazydaisy

Im really trying to understand you. Your theorising is very vague. You talk in huge generalities and arent specific.

When you say Christian Fundamentalists, I presume you mean Bush & Rice/Cheney? When you refer to the people's money I think you mean revenue earned by tax dollars that is being spent to secure contracts with American companies in the rebuilding of Iraq, and its the Bush/Cheney/Rice/[Michael Moore too] investments in that stock which is what motivated them to go to war with Iraq because after 911 the economy & stock market was so destroyed that they needed to create a military economy similar to the one which was created by the cold war for their own personal financial portfolios?

Can you provide me with an example of what you consider to be a successfull economy?

bus77

wiseones2cents wrote:

???I'd like you to elaborate.

Well, what I'm saying is. Bush going with the "God speaks to me" angle might be good tactics. Think about those middle eastern fellas sitting around having little chats about things. Some will be going with the ''they want to destroy islam, get the pagan's, ect'' other more left-wing types will be going with the ''they want the whole middle east, domination ect'' Bush coming out with this is sort of like a big sticky finger in the middle of those trains of argument...

I think...

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

Im really trying to understand you. Your theorising is very vague. You talk in huge generalities and arent specific.

When you say Christian Fundamentalists, I presume you mean Bush & Rice/Cheney? When you refer to the people's money I think you mean revenue earned by tax dollars that is being spent to secure contracts with American companies in the rebuilding of Iraq, and its the Bush/Cheney/Rice/[Michael Moore too] investments in that stock which is what motivated them to go to war with Iraq because after 911 the economy & stock market was so destroyed that they needed to create a military economy similar to the one which was created by the cold war for their own personal financial portfolios?

Can you provide me with an example of what you consider to be a successfull economy?

Obviously those though I am also reffering to the Christians Ministers that are endorsing this war.

An example of a sucessful economy? New Zealand maybe 30-40 years ago, before the Elites started to Invest there.

wiseones2cents

bus77 wrote:

Well, what I'm saying is. Bush going with the "God speaks to me" angle might be good tactics. Think about those middle eastern fellas sitting around having little chats about things. Some will be going with the ''they want to destroy islam, get the pagan's, ect'' other more left-wing types will be going with the ''they want the whole middle east, domination ect'' Bush coming out with this is sort of like a big sticky finger in the middle of those trains of argument...

I think...

Well if you believe Blasphemy is a good tactic, you have a right to your
opinion. But it is not mine.

They think that way thanks to gearge bush's big mouth and talk of a crusade.

War was not the Answer but since the CIA tried to assassinate Saddam a few times and couldn't get to him, they had no other choice but to invade with falsified information to regain control of the oil fields.

P.S. Speaking of sticky. The Americans got caught in thier own web and will pay the price.

The Corinthian

wiseones2cents wrote:

An example of a sucessful economy? New Zealand maybe 30-40 years ago, before the Elites started to Invest there.

What on earth are you talking about? New Zealand's economy was a mess 30-40 years ago - the standard of living was unsustainable without massive overseas borrowing.

Or is living indefinitely on credit a viable economic policy in your eyes?

wiseones2cents

The Corinthian wrote:

What on earth are you talking about? New Zealand's economy was a mess 30-40 years ago - the standard of living was unsustainable without massive overseas borrowing.

Or is living indefinitely on credit a viable economic policy in your eyes?

Not according to all the research I have done via encyclopedia's.

Thier economy was mostly agricultural, Sheep(mostly),wool products, Cattle(dairy products), wheat potatoes, fruits,vegetables,ect...

Everything a human being needs to survive.

No one was filthy rich but poverty was non existent.
They say New Zeland had one of the most highest standards of living.

So why the heck would they need massive overseas borrowing????
Makes absolutely no sense.Unless the New Zelanders were getting milked(robbed).

The Corinthian

wiseones2cents wrote:

Not according to all the research I have done via encyclopedia's.

Care to share some of that research?

So why the heck would they need massive overseas borrowing????
Makes absolutely no sense.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/nzefo/2004/economy.asp

Unless the New Zelanders were getting milked(robbed).

Robbed? You mean someone else was benefiting from higher trade prices, as NZ had prior to 1970, which largely helped to pay for her higher standard of living.

You can’t benefit from trade then cry foul when the deals are no longer as sweet.

wiseones2cents

The Corinthian wrote:

Care to share some of that research?

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/nzefo/2004/economy.asp

Robbed? You mean someone else was benefiting from higher trade prices, as NZ had prior to 1970, which largely helped to pay for her higher standard of living.

You can’t benefit from trade then cry foul when the deals are no longer as sweet.

I scanned my Encyclopedia but it wont let me paste. This is what it says.

WAY OF LIFE: New Zealanders enjoy one of the Highest standards of living in the world. There are no people of great wealth, but poverty is practically unknown. The majority of families live in one story wooden homes. Most families have an Automobile, and many have modern appliances. Because the country is a major supplier of sheep and dairy products, meat and butter form a larger share of the diet than is common in other countires.

THEREFORE sounds to me like they were leading good simple lives. Now we know that after the world war most countries were affected but in the 1979
they were doing exceptionally well. Which is when the Encyclopedia was published. The New Book Of Knowledge.

Who benefits more from Trade with foreign countries?The Exporters or the
Citizens, that have to compete with foreign countries, bringing up costs of thier Produce?You'd think the Industralization of New Zealand would bring down the costs but it has had the opposite effect.

Since free trade, Canada has witnessed a tripling of the cost of Living. We now pay more for energy than the Americans that are taking it from us.We give it to them and they sell it back to us at a higher cost. Thanks to the Privatization of our Utilities and resources.

As soon as an Economy starts to depend on another country, the economy is on shaky ground.

Now please dont waste my time and stay on the subject.

bush claims GOD guides him, but it is only thier greed that is leading the way.

The Corinthian

wiseones2cents wrote:

I scanned my Encyclopedia but it wont let me paste. This is what it says.

What Encyclopaedia? Publisher, date, edition? Or should I take your word for it?

THEREFORE sounds to me like they were leading good simple lives. Now we know that after the world war most countries were affected but in the 1979
they were doing exceptionally well. Which is when the Encyclopedia was published. The New Book Of Knowledge.

What New Book of Knowledge? There’s no such thing. Indeed there’s no single Encyclopaedia for that matter.

Who benefits more from Trade with foreign countries?The Exporters or the
Citizens, that have to compete with foreign countries, bringing up costs of thier Produce?You'd think the Industralization of New Zealand would bring down the costs but it has had the opposite effect.

Supposition. You’ve presented no facts here. These are all opinions backed up by nothing.

Since free trade, Canada has witnessed a tripling of the cost of Living. We now pay more for energy than the Americans that are taking it from us.We give it to them and they sell it back to us at a higher cost. Thanks to the Privatization of our Utilities and resources.

Correlation does not imply causation. For example, there is a direct correlation between cars driving more slowly on roads and an increase in traffic accidents. Should that mean that we should outlaw cars driving too slowly? No, because both of those correlating factors are in reality cause by ice on roads.

In the same fashion you may (I say may, because you’ve only presented your opinion, you’ve not actually given any evidence to back any up your claims) have displayed at best a correlation, but that’s all. Saying that free trade increased energy, for example, is a gigantic assumption on your part - you’ve typically ignored everything else that happened in the World that may have effected Canada’s economy during the same period.

Now please dont waste my time and stay on the subject.

Waste your time? You’re coming out with the most amazing unsubstantiated fantasy and you accuse me of wasting your time? Very droll.

When you can come back and back up what you’re saying with something more than what you read off a coffee table edition, feel free.

wiseones2cents

The Corinthian wrote:

What Encyclopaedia? Publisher, date, edition? Or should I take your word for it?

Already Answered The New Book Of Knowledge 1979

What New Book of Knowledge? There’s no such thing. Indeed there’s no single Encyclopaedia for that matter.

There's no such thing?Since It is right in front of me, I'd say so far your arguments are weak.

Supposition. You’ve presented no facts here. These are all opinions backed up by nothing.

I wasn't aware that Encyclopedias presented suppositions.:D

In the same fashion you may (I say may, because you’ve only presented your opinion, you’ve not actually given any evidence to back any up your claims) have displayed at best a correlation, but that’s all. Saying that free trade increased energy, for example, is a gigantic assumption on your part - you’ve typically ignored everything else that happened in the World that may have effected Canada’s economy during the same period.

A giant assumption?I guess the bills that have been coming in that have tripled in the last few years are only a figment of my imagination?:D
I think 1) You profit from International thievery 2) You really dont know what you are talking about 3) You are changing the subject because you do not want to know the true fact that Christian ministers in America that support the war are all a bunch of fakes.(I noticed your Corinthian title)

Waste your time? You’re coming out with the most amazing unsubstantiated fantasy and you accuse me of wasting your time? Very droll.

When you can come back and back up what you’re saying with something more than what you read off a coffee table edition, feel free.

Why is it a coffee table edition? Because it doesnt agree with you?

Heres wikipedia. If anything it seems that since it went global it has put itself into debt, Inflation has been on the rise and Unemployment has become a problem. Not to mention now your entire economy is dependant on trade which makes the Economy highly volotile.

New Zealand has a thriving, modern, developed economy. The country has a high standard of living, ranking 19th on the 2005 Human Development Index and 15th of The Economist's 2005 world-wide quality-of-life index. Since 1984 successive governments have engaged in major macroeconomic restructuring, transforming New Zealand from a highly protectionist and regulated economy to a liberalised free-trade economy. During the late 1980s, the New Zealand Government sold a number of major trading enterprises, including its telecommunications company, railway network, a number of radio stations and two financial institutions in a series of asset sales. Although the New Zealand Government continues to own a number of significant businesses, collectively known as State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs), they are operated through arms-length shareholding arrangements as stand-alone businesses that are required to operate profitably, just like any privately owned enterprise.

Unfortunately, due in part to the sudden transition to a market economy, an economic bubble developed in the New Zealand stock market starting in 1984. This burst in October 1987 and the total value of the market halved within a year (it has still to recover this lost value). The effect of this bubble was a period of poor economic growth which lasted until the mid 90s. It also led the government to begin a programme of massive immigration to boost GDP. However, since 1999 New Zealand has enjoyed a period of relatively strong and sustained growth, and contained inflationary pressures.

The current New Zealand government's economic objectives are centred around moving from being ranked among the lower end of the OECD countries to regaining a higher placing again, pursuing free-trade agreements, "closing the gaps" between ethnic groups, and building a "knowledge economy." In 2004 it began discussing free trade with China, one of the first countries to do so.

New Zealand is heavily dependent on trade—particularly in agricultural products—to drive growth, and it has been affected by global economic slowdowns and slumps in commodity prices. Since agricultural exports are highly sensitive to currency values and a large percentage of consumer goods are imported, any changes in the value of the New Zealand dollar has a strong impact on the economy. Its primary export industries are agriculture, horticulture, fishing, forestry and information technology. There are also substantial tourism and export education industries. The film and wine industries are considered to be up-and-coming.

The Corinthian

wiseones2cents wrote:

Already Answered The New Book Of Knowledge 1979

I see; this is the name of the encyclopaedia then? All one volume of I I’d imagine. And an odd 27 years out for date, too.

I wasn't aware that Encyclopedias presented suppositions.:D

No you’re presenting suppositions based upon your interpretation of a dated and dubious document.

A giant assumption?I guess the bills that have been coming in that have tripled in the last few years are only a figment of my imagination?:D

Again this is an observation you’ve put forward, without even attempting to create a link denoting causation. As I’ve already pointed out; correlation does not imply causation - demonstrating the former does not demonstrate the latter.

I think 1) You profit from International thievery 2) You really dont know what you are talking about 3) You are changing the subject because you do not want to know the true fact that Christian ministers in America that support the war are all a bunch of fakes.(I noticed your Corinthian title)

Now who’s attempting to change the subject?

1) Most people do, directly or indirectly you’ll find.
2) I’m almost certainly better qualified to discuss economics than you
3) No, I only took an interest in what you said on the basis that you were coming out with some outlandish economic theories, backed up by nothing more than your opinion and interpretation of a coffee table edition you euphemistically call an encyclopaedia.

As for my nick, you should read more. There’s more than one meaning for the term Corinthian.

Why is it a coffee table edition? Because it doesnt agree with you?

No because it’s a children’s book:

“The New Book of Knowledge (NBK) has been in print in the United States since 1912. Widely renowned as the first modern encyclopedia for children, NBK has long been the leading source of accurate, accessible, and fun-to-read information for use in homes and libraries.”

http://go.grolier.com/go-ol/static/features/nbkfeatrs.htm

Heres wikipedia. If anything it seems that since it went global it has put itself into debt, Inflation has been on the rise and Unemployment has become a problem.

Where do you discount what I pointed out about the ‘self-sufficient economy’ being ultimately unsustainable because it was based upon massive overseas borrowing?

No one denies that free trade comes with it’s own problems, but to suggest that running on credit is the basis of a viable economy is ridiculous.

Not to mention now your entire economy is dependant on trade which makes the Economy highly volotile.

Pretty much all economies are dependant on trade, like it or not – complete self-sufficiency was an idiotic doctrine that went out with Enver Hoxha’s Albania. Indeed, it’s actually impossible to do so if you lack certain resources, notably fossil fuel.