Fair Play Vince!!

gm1984

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Dragan

Yeah right, this coming from a guy who was done in the 80's for steroid distribution and is obviously still using himself today???

He has a long way to go i think.

Hopefully what he announces will be enforced, that is the second step he needs to take.

slicus ricus

Id say this has more to do with painkillers and recreational drugs than steroids, with whats happened with Nick Dinsmore (i read that he's in rehab) as well as the contribution of Eddie's past addiction to painkillers to his death.

I would be very surprised if he comes out banning steroids, and introduces testing once again: three quarters of the locker room would be failing that (including Vince himself)!

Its one thing to be seen to be doing something by introducing a policy, its another thing to actually do something by enforcing this poplicy.

Firewalkwithme

From WWE.com

In a joint meeting today with the RAW and SmackDown rosters in the United Kingdom, in Sheffield, Vince McMahon announced that within the next several weeks, a new drug testing policy will be implemented in which performance enhancing drugs, such as steroids, etc., recreational drugs, as well as abuse of prescription drugs will be banned.

In addition to the new drug testing procedure, there will also be an emphasis on cardiovascular examinations.

The specifics of the drug policy will be announced over the next several weeks. More details to follow. Check with WWE.com for the latest information.

Dragan

And will Vince take these himself????

You want a conspiracy theory???

America is currently going through a "war on steroids" thanks to congressional hearings, the BALCO scandal, the fall of baseball idols, Arnold saying that Bodybuilding needs more testing and so forth.

Triple H takes a few months off and comes back looking in about the worse shape I have ever seen him, obviously he went off the juice for a while.

Eddie's death is way too fresh to have prompted this, as something like this takes quite a bit of planning.

Evil Vince Theory equals Vince told Trips what was going down and Trips went off to pass the first ( and most likely only ) test that will occur. Hence the poor condition. I guarantee that six months after the first batch of testing HHH will be back to his old self!!!

Only messing folks, i'm just posting this for fun!!! Please feel free to post some more "Evil Vince Conspiracies"

Skud

with the reported widespread use of pain killers in the WWe (Angle is a name dropped in particular) and also RVD supposably smoking weed as a recreational use then there might be a problem. It depends how severe they are going to take this and maybe also to prevent the company forking out on more rehab bills

Gav444

fuk vince he screwed bret!!!!!!!

gm1984

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slicus ricus

gm1984 wrote:

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Holy crap. I just watched that too and i cant believe they're showing it! The fact that Vince said there must be a lot of questions is basically sayin: a lot of you have problems and will fail the test.

I thought Angle asked about prescriptions whether the tests could gauge if the amount taken was a little or a lot (PWI say it was Flair?), to which Vince replied that they could find whether the amount taken matched the prescription. Someone else asked if the tests were random. Im pretty sure that was Kurt sayin he appreciates Vince telling them personally

WWE are DEFINITELY taking this seriously!

Mr.Nice Guy

slicus ricus wrote:

The fact that Vince said there must be a lot of questions is basically sayin: a lot of you have problems and will fail the test.

Eh? I didn't jump to that conclusion. People were just reluctant to speak up.

I think it's a good step from the WWE but it's hot on the heels of steroid scandals in baseball and Eddie Guerrero's death so it remains to be seen if this will be kept up in the long-term.

slicus ricus

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Eh? I didn't jump to that conclusion. People were just reluctant to speak up.

Im not sayin that the fact that they didnt ask questions shows anything. The fact that Vince said: "there must be a million of them (questions) running through your minds" makes it sound like they know that a lot of guys would fail the tests without altering their habits. While this will not be a shock to the majority of us posting on this site, it will be to casual wrestling fans and the average joe who happens to see this.

yak_kadafi

damn im surprised they showed that on wwe.com...i suppose its cos they want to show that the wwe is in no way encouraging drug use etc.......

merlinsmerryman

Is it just me or is it very sad that it took the death of a very talented wrestler for the WWE and Vince to finally come out and introduce a drug testing policy and to do it very publicly on WWE.com?

gm1984

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moongoose

with all the talk of tests and who's on or off the juice one question comes to mind for anyone who was at the signing last sunday. anyone else notice how out of it kurt angle was? and i ain't talking about jet lag or being tired i'm talking of it as in possibly being on something at the time

Fozzy

Fair play

I don't believe Eddie's death prompted this, it wouldn't have saved his life, unfortunately. Although there is mention of emphasis on cardiovascular examinations. A certain champion is sure to fail that! Along with the likes of Viscera

It says steroids, recreational drugs and abuse of prescription drugs are banned. I'm sure that will sound dodgy for some guys, although the tests are random, and even if they are frequent, it'd probably take a while to catch anyone. God knows what it means for RVD!

If this does lead to some high profile cases, at least we can rest assured on one thing - it's good news for CM Punk fans

Ham'nd'egger

May I take this chance to remind you all that the last Steroids ban from WWF/WWE was circa 1992. This was around the time of the Steriods trials, without suggesting it was in anyway co-incidental or anything. Just a fluke as ever... As will "small' guys getting signed or pushed over more big or muscled men. WWE knows full well that it has to play clean with any drugs now that the negative eye will be on it so the public word needs to be kept clean be it steroids or casual stuff. Remember the 2002 flights to the UK after a few beers? A hell of a lot of guys will be careful as f*ck in the next 6 months...

Of course, Angle would ask any questions, as we all know how fond he is of "milking" up

Dragan

Guys , whatever way you want to look at it, roughly 75% of the locker room,if not more will be taking some form of anabolic steroid and a high dosage of painkiller too.

SO lets examine, a pretty basic cycle would be d-bol or stanzonol for 8 to 12 weeks, cycled with some test, some clomid and some nolva to avoid the side affects of gyno and water retention. That stuff is taken in oral form will be about 4 months with trace in the sytems, if injected maybe a bit less, say, 2 to 3 months.

Now then, lets look at the smart ones, some people will only take test, which granted will shut down your natural production while you are ON, but this is not sucha big deal, you will just show up as having highly elevated test levels, and this is to be expected in the naturally large.

Either way, if we see a lot of stars sitting things out then we know it's being done. And you can't base all your assumptions as to who is doing steroids on size. Edge's ex-wife has publically accused him of doing steroids, and he shows all the signs of it, and he is not the biggest guy in there by any means.

On the other hand Chris Benoit is the one person i would definitely say is clean. He has been built like he is since the first day i saw him, never a hint of acne of discolouration of the skin, never saw him look like he was holding any water, never witness a weight fluctuation, even AFTER he broke his neck his size stayed with him and that is the truest sign of natural size, muscle maturity and memory.

All in all, if this goes down, it will be very surprising who will be shown to be abusing anabolic steroids or painkillers.

slicus ricus

Fozzy wrote:

Fair play

Although there is mention of emphasis on cardiovascular examinations. A certain champion is sure to fail that!

Which champion are you talking about: Cena or Batista. Neither appear to be remarkably fit, but at the same time i wouldnt have thought either would be failing cardio examinations.

Dragan

Both will be fine, Batista will be grand, you simply do not get that big without having a healthy heart, his heart will show as being slightly enlarged from heavy resistance training but that will be it. SUre, he may not be able to run a marathon, but believe me, his heart will be healthy.

As for Cena, i do believe this guy knocks out 30 mins a day, covering 5k, which is a good boxers run.

Nah, the champ will be fine, don't confuse cardio with vascular health folks.

slicus ricus

Dragan wrote:

Both will be fine, Batista will be grand, you simply do not get that big without having a healthy heart, his heart will show as being slightly enlarged from heavy resistance training but that will be it. SUre, he may not be able to run a marathon, but believe me, his heart will be healthy.

As for Cena, i do believe this guy knocks out 30 mins a day, covering 5k, which is a good boxers run.

Nah, the champ will be fine, don't confuse cardio with vascular health folks.

Thats what i would have thought too. I cant really see any of the wrestlers failing cardio tests with the exception of Viscera (id say even Rosie will pass without trouble). You need to pretty damn fit to wrestle 3 or 4 times a week like these guys do!

Dragan

Exactly, the main thing with Eddie ( sorry to keep going back to him ) was that a certain level of damage had been done when he was making his mistakes.

Of all the things i have ever done, wrestling is the hardest. I cannot imagine what it must be like at that level, taking those bumps and keeping up that speed. It's tough man, real tough.

These guys work out solidily, and while the look good, they all get great cardio vascular workouts just by doing there job, so they are an inherently healthy bunch. Most if not all the problems that they may be suffering from would be in relation to abuse of various substances. I mean lets face it, everything can be abused, from cocaine to cornflakes at the end of the day!

All in all, i think it is a great step, but with regular testing we will see the guys getting a bit smaller, maybe a little bit softer looking ( look at Jericho, man, that guy could build himself, but he was never really ripped, so you know he was a natural! ).

The main thing is that not only will anabolics make the guys bigger, it will dramtically speed recovery from injury and soreness from bumps too! It will be a big change.

slicus ricus

It will be interesting to see which WWE guys start looking smaller within the next month or so. Id imagine the likes of Masters, Batista, Angle, Edge to name just a few will be looking pretty out of shape within the next while. From what i understand, a lot of guys go quite flabby when they go off the juice: see HHH when he came back from the groin injury.

This is good news for the cruiserweights and the indy guys who want to make it to WWE but havnt got the roided-up explosive physiques formerly required. Perhaps this will help some Irish and UK talent in their endevours to get noticed by WWE should they get tryouts!

Dragan

Exactly, it will be nice to see the sport get itself sorted out, having a bit more repect for the athletes!

Vince135792003

If this lasts and I hope it will, its hard to quantify what a big deal this is.

yak_kadafi

[QUOTE=slicus ricus
This is good news for the cruiserweights and the indy guys who want to make it to WWE but havnt got the roided-up explosive physiques formerly required. Perhaps this will help some Irish and UK talent in their endevours to get noticed by WWE should they get tryouts![/QUOTE]

yea thats one of the first things that came to my mind as i read this topic the first time...hopefully it will pave the way for irish and uk talent...

Fozzy

slicus ricus wrote:

Which champion are you talking about: Cena or Batista. Neither appear to be remarkably fit, but at the same time i wouldnt have thought either would be failing cardio examinations.

Come on, you've seen Batista wrestle, haven't you? He sweats buckets after a single move! I actually couldn't believe it in one of his matches against HHH, about 3 minutes into it he was punched, and you could see the sweat fly everywhere

Best case to look at would be the Royal Rumble this year. I think Cena and Batista were in for about the same amount of time. Look at the end of it and see who looks in good condition and who looks like they're absolutely ****ed

Dragan

Fozzy wrote:

Come on, you've seen Batista wrestle, haven't you? He sweats buckets after a single move! I actually couldn't believe it in one of his matches against HHH, about 3 minutes into it he was punched, and you could see the sweat fly everywhere

Best case to look at would be the Royal Rumble this year. I think Cena and Batista were in for about the same amount of time. Look at the end of it and see who looks in good condition and who looks like they're absolutely ****ed

LIke i said, you are associating the wrong factors when you are thinking about vascular health. Level of persiration is a sign of water rentention, and overall water levels in the diet. I am assuming that before he goes out Batista is drinking plenty of water in an effort to stop from dehydrating and also to keep his muscle looking full throughout the match and keep that image going.

Secondly, Batista is all muscle, very low bodyfat percentage so imagine the rate his metabolism goes at and the fact that he cannot eat too soon before a match ( not a solid meal any way, a protein/carb shake should be fine ) a guy Batista's size would be eating anywhere from 3500 to 5000 carbs a day, depending on what he is doing, and thats just to keep his size!

Thirdly, just because someone is tired does not mean they are not healthy, as i said, everthing Batista does in the ring takes a huge ammount of energy, when you are his size it always does. He COULD NOT attain his size without having a very healty heart, you need that blood pumping into the muscle to ensure the nutrients are being delivered after training.

Don't confuse sweating with a lack of vascular health.

Fozzy

Dragan wrote:

He COULD NOT attain his size without having a very healty heart, you need that blood pumping into the muscle to ensure the nutrients are being delivered after training.

What about guys like The British Bulldog? He was a huge size, and he died of heart failure. Apparently due to steroids. Hercules Hernandez used to sweat a load, he didn't have a healthy heart, and he actually advertised steroids on tv once. Actually, the guy who had the body most like Batista's was Rick Rude, and he did steroids. I'm not saying that Batista does them for certain, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. There wouldn't have been any restrictions on it in his previous job as a bouncer. The most common injury among steroid users is torn muscles, Batista has a back muscle torn now, and he tore a muscle while he was rehabbing a torn muscle about 2 years ago. I'm just saying!

Surely though, looking at that Royal Rumble match, you can't say Batista is fitter than Cena?

Dragan

Once again you are jumping to conclusion, associating steroid use with vascular problems. I have already had this discussion with Phenom, but steroid USE does not mean heart problems. British Bulldog used steroids, but he also had issues with other substances as well, same as rick rudd.

And as for whether Batista ever did do steroids, I would say he most definitely did, he was a competitive bodybuilder, and 99.999999999999% percent of the population would find it impossible to acheive Batista old build ( he looks small now compared to those days ) without some steroid use.

SIMPLY PUT you are assuming that anabolic steroid use means heart problems when this is rubbish. The same anabolics, in the same cycles as some of these guys use are used to threat patients with cancer and aids to prevent muscle wasting and atrophy. SO once again, how come sick people can take them but healthy people can not.

With proper use anabolics do not mean any form of damage to any organs, plain and simple. You are also associating steroid use with sweat, but in the same sentence point Batista was sweating but Triple H was not, and if you think Trips is not on the juice then you have another thing coming.

Also I have never seen any reasearch to show that steroid users suffer more torn muscles that normal lifters, or that the extra tears are in relation to the use of steroids. Muscle tears occur when too much stress is placed on the muscle, obviously if someone is taking steroids they would most likely also be working out but i would state that here the connection ends.

If i could be so bold as to state that you have made three mistake when approaching this argument.

1) You are associating overt sweating in the ring with steroid use.
2) You are associating steroid use with vascular illness.
3) You don;t seem to actually know ANYTHING about steroids.

There are many effective reference guides on anabolics available, and i would also suggest that you have a look at www.pubmed.com to check out some reasearch that has been done ( this is a site detail all published medical studies and has a hand search engine also ).

And also, based of you last sentence you are still confusing vascular health ( i.e the health and intergrity of the heart muscle ) with cardio fitness.

slicus ricus

Fozzy wrote:

Surely though, looking at that Royal Rumble match, you can't say Batista is fitter than Cena?

You must remember that Cena is 28 and Batista will be 40 in January (Theres a bit of debate regarding his age: some say he's older). Of course Cena is going to be fitter than Batista. When you think about it, Dave is doing pretty well cardio-wise for a guy his age. The fact that he sweats a lot during matches doesnt necessarily mean he is lacking in fitness. Just from wrestling 4 nights a week and lifting weights to the extent Batista does, you're going to be pretty fit.

slicus ricus

I found this artical on the wretling observer website. Its written by Dave Meltzer (a guy who really knows his stuff) and he makes a lot of good points about the drugs ban in it: well worth a read.

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=14833

Fozzy

Dragan wrote:

1) You are associating overt sweating in the ring with steroid use.

I'm associating Batista with the possibility of doing steroids. I'm also associating him with the possibility of failing a cardiovascular examination

Dragan wrote:

2) You are associating steroid use with vascular illness.

Just did a quick search on pubmed.com, found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16292586&query_hl=6 which suggests that vigourous weight training coupled with anabolic steroid use leads to heart injury

Just so I'm getting this right, steroids increase muscle size, mass, etc, correct? Wrestlers on steroids will obviously be doing a lot of weights. This will put a strain on their muscles that they work out, as well as their heart. The heart is a muscle, and it too will get bigger. I've heard reports of bodybuilders dying young recently, and apparently it's mainly due to enlarged hearts

Dragan wrote:

3) You don;t seem to actually know ANYTHING about steroids.

The most important thing I know is that WWE are testing for them

Dragan

Ordinary excercise will result in enlargement of the heart. I lift weights religiously so my heart is larger now than it was when i started!

OF COURSE steroids cause muscles to grow, and of course the heart is a muscle, but now you are trying to say that a large heart is an unhealthy heart?

You are confusing USE of anabolic steroids with ABUSE of anabolic steroids. It's just like me sitting here and saying the everyone who drinks will die of liver failure, and everyone who smokes will die of lung cancer i.e it is a broad statement backed up by no evidence and very little research.

And of course Batista is doing steroids, thats obvious. But so is Cena now, plain and simple. There are degrees of usage and degree of danger.

Not all cycles and not all steroids are dangerous.

D-FENS

OK Lads, this thread is starting to look like it belongs in the Biology/Medicine Section!

Dragan

True, and i apologise for that. I just hate broad statements like " he's on steroids so his heart won't be healthy!"

Grrrrr.

Fozzy

D-FENS wrote:

OK Lads, this thread is starting to look like it belongs in the Biology/Medicine Section!

Haha, yeah, true

I'm willing to accept that the abuse of steroids can cause damage, as long as you keep in mind that use of steroids is being tested by WWE!

Dragan

The only reason the WWE is testing is because of the legality issue, nothing else. Right now in the states there is a major crack down on AS in all sports, thanks to the BALCO scandal and some mis placed interest by Congress and one Dr Gary Wadler.

Simple fact is that without say as much Vince was saying its okay to use AS in the locker rooms. Look at Vinces build, at his age, and tell me who does gear?

I'm all for testing, but they need to test for the right things and for the right reasons. Hopefully this is a positive step to ensure the health and well being ( both mental and physical ) of a lot of athletes that i truly respect.

If its done correctly that is.

J.R.HARTLEY

Fozzy wrote:

Surely though, looking at that Royal Rumble match, you can't say Batista is fitter than Cena?

can you explain how cena has doubled in size in two years. thats a definite fail right there. no way he just worked out.

i'd say the biggest problem will be prescrition painkillers, angle(neck) kane(back) etc could be in trouble, i do think it's hypocrisy though, vince was the worst abuser of roids ever