Barely legal. (Legality of non-cardroom tourneys)

Mmmm_Lemony

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the legality of some of these private tournies.

After reading the thread about the best of the bunch, I was wondering if you need, a business, be a sole trader, hold a gambling licence or just a pair of brass monkeys.

To be honest, I haven't a clue, but seeing those texas poker night guys got me thinking, If they can do it badly, and make a packet, surely someone else could too, even with there being 6 to a dozen of em out there.

Clinical Waste

Ok, I really got to start reading the \Forum Title before getting so excited about the Thread title...

Lafortezza

Thread title changed. As far as I know you need a couple of packs of cards, some chips and large pockets for all the money.

Culchie

Mmmm_Lemony wrote:

To be honest, I haven't a clue, but seeing those texas poker night guys got me thinking, If they can do it badly, and make a packet, surely someone else could too, even with there being 6 to a dozen of em out there.

Like anything, they may be 'making a packet' now, but it won't last. People are copping on fast, that's what poker players do, they learn very fast about what is good value, and what is not.

It's also, as boards shows, a community. Every night of the week boards.ie poker players meet each other, and they talk poker, so words spreads about the good tourneys, and also the bad ones.

Mmmm_Lemony

I know what your saying, but it wouldn't take much to make a good tourney if your willing to put in the effort.

As I said, even though there is a ton of these guys they can get away with murder, because the demand is so high. All it would take would be a bit of effort and some planning.

The legality is the issue, a licence aquisition wouldn't be feesable but I've heard if it's for charitable reasons this isn't required.

If there was a ceiling set, for whoever is organising, and the rest to charity, it wouldn't be a bad venture at all. I love the game, so I wouldn't be in it just to rip off some people jumping onto the wagon, if you know what I mean.

jacQues

Mmmm_Lemony wrote:

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the legality of some of these private tournies.

If all players have an equal chance, its not gambling (for law purpuses) and its legal in the sense that the activity is allowed (without the need for a gambling licence). Therefore, cash games are illegal (buy-ins vary, therefore its gambling). Whilst most tournaments are perfectly legal. Note that re-buys and add-ons are very (dark) grey areas. So for the activity, you only need a licence if you are doing cash games (and maybe also for tournaments with re-buys/add-ons).

The money made, is grey area as well. If organised by a person, and (s)he doesn't make a profit (just cover costs of premises, chips etc.) it should be okay. If there is a profit being made, it should count as "additional (non primary) income" (even if you're on the dole). It should be 'bookkept' and reported. You may even get taxed for it if you're above a certain treshold.

I do not know if there is a difference between privately organised tournaments in a public place and home games, and above is the law as I (just a guy) understand it. In reality, no one is going to bother with home games. But for privately organised tournaments that are advertised for and/or held in a public place like a pub (even if its in a "private" room), the organisor could potentially need some real legal advice (i.e. not mine )

jacQues

Mmmm_Lemony

Thanks for clearing that up (or at least explaining it a little). If I was to do it (i.e. set up a tournament), I would seek legal (and financial) advice first. Just wondering what the general idea of the setup (i.e. current legal requirements). If I (also just a guy) do decide to pursue further, I will let you (that is, Boards.ie) know.

Coillte_Bhoy

Just a few thoughts on this. Myself and two mates ran a tourney last night in Claremorris. €20 in with unlimited rebuys at €15 for 90 mins plus 1 top up €20. We paid out 87.5%. Were at the venue at 8.30pm and tourney started at 9.45pm and ran until just after 2am. By the time we had chips, laptop etc. gathered up it was 3.30am by the time we left. So we had €86 each for 7 hours work. Hardly creaming it in....

Mmmm_Lemony

You started very late. What was the blind structure? Did you have any craic? What was the prize pool?

After the Texas Nights fiasco I witnessed, I reckon anybody could pull it off better then'em, with bigger payout for the contestants.

Coillte_Bhoy

Started late because we were late getting there having intened to be there at 8. Place was packed when we arrived and i'd say 75% players were relatively new to the game and were wandering around pawing at tables etc and reading rules etc. Everyone seemed to enjoy the night though some complaints about amount of chips available for Top Up which in retrospect didn't represent good value - €15 for 2,500 which was only 4 BB's at that stage. But we are open to constructive criticism and have reviwed our structure for our next tourney which is provisionallly set for Hollymount, Co Mayo on Sunday, Dec. 4th

For prize pool see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054851614

VEGAS NIGHTS

Coillte Bhoy,
some complaints about amount of chips available for Top Up which in retrospect didn't represent good value - €15 for 2,500 which was only 4 BB's at that stage. But we are open to constructive criticism and have reviwed our structure for our next tourney
_________________________________________________________________________________

This works well for a multy rebuy:


GAME TYPE: No limit Texas Holdem

PRIZE FUND: Based on no. of players.

REGISTRATION: 7:15pm

GAME START: 7:30PM

ENTRY E20
REBUYs: E15 (max 3 per person)
TOP UP: E20



CHIPS: Start...1,500. Rebuy...1,500. Top up...2,500

BLINDS: first 4 levels 25mins as follows 25/50. 50/100. 100/200. 150/300. (15 min break)
15mins for rest of night as follows 200/400. 300/600. 500/1,000. 700/1,500. 1,000/2,000. 1,500/3,000. 2,000/4,000. 3,000/6,000. 5,000/10,000. 7,000/15,000. 10,000/20,000.

All tables are self-deal untill final table(9 players) which will have a dealer.

Start with tables of 8. When players are out and you are closing keep tables at average 8. If you think you are in danger of "chip count" finnish due to time restrictions play tables of 6/7. A chip count is a horrible way to end......a guy plays all night and gets into last 3 players and is forced to accept 3rd due to shortest stack.........horrible.