When to slowdown??(HH included)

willis

ok this is basically a bluff that didnt pay off and i would appreciate an analysis of my play on the flop, the turn, and the river. What do you think of my play on all 3 streets?

Two Weeks Notice 4914748-45247 Holdem No Limit $0.25/$0.50
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Hand Start.
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 1 : mark03 has $25.27
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 2 : boat-68 has $10.01
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 3 : Jormson has $99.50
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 4 : brewster2885 has $8.85
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 5 : willzer84 has $99.42
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : Seat 6 : WandaD has $108.88
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : willzer84 is the dealer.
[Nov 17 23:30:14] : WandaD posted small blind.
[Nov 17 23:30:15] : mark03 posted big blind.
[Nov 17 23:30:15] : Game [45247] started with 6 players.
[Nov 17 23:30:15] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Nov 17 23:30:15] : Seat 5 : willzer84 has Jd Ad
[Nov 17 23:30:28] : boat-68 called $0.50
[Nov 17 23:31:08] : Jormson folded.
[Nov 17 23:31:08] : brewster2885 folded.
[Nov 17 23:31:16] : willzer84 called $0.50 and raised $3(in position,limper a muppet as most players at this level that’s why so big)[Nov 17 23:31:18] : WandaD called $3.25
[Nov 17 23:31:21] : mark03 folded.
[Nov 17 23:31:26] : boat-68 folded.
[Nov 17 23:31:26] : Dealing flop.
[Nov 17 23:31:26] : Board cards [8s 4s Kh]
[Nov 17 23:31:06] : WandaD bet $5
[Nov 17 23:31:14] : willzer84 called $5 and raised $10
[Nov 17 23:31:17] : WandaD called $10
[Nov 17 23:31:17] : Dealing turn.
[Nov 17 23:31:18] : Board cards [8s 4s Kh 2s]
[Nov 17 23:31:21] : WandaD checked.
[Nov 17 23:31:25] : willzer84 bet $20
[Nov 17 23:31:27] : WandaD called $20
[Nov 17 23:31:27] : Dealing river.
[Nov 17 23:31:27] : Board cards [8s 4s Kh 2s Qd]
[Nov 17 23:31:32] : WandaD checked.
[Nov 17 23:32:06] : willzer84 bet $60.92 and is All-in
[Nov 17 23:32:08] : WandaD called $60.92
[Nov 17 23:32:08] : Showdown!

So Flop play...good/bad/standard?
Turn...Should i check now the flush has hit
River... Check behind and give it up?

No real reads on villain, he had limped in with kings earlier but ive only been here for 10 hands or so. With this limited info what do u reckon he has got?

All comments appreciated

Ste05

Pre-flop is fine, if you thought he'd call this bet with a marginal hand then bet this amount, you have position and a decent starting hand.

I think if you intended to bluff at this pot if you didn't hit you needed to either call the flop and then see what he did on the turn, if he checked you could represent the flush, or if he bet again you could let it go if the turn didn't improve your hand. Alternatively you need to re-raise more here on the flop, maybe something like another $20 at least, take him off his possible flush draw, and make him fold a marginal K. Also it allows you to gain more info. about his hand and if he called you'd know he probably has some kind of hand and not to bluff again.

As you played it however, following this flop play, his subsequent call and then lead out on the turn, if you wanted to take him off his hand you were probably going to have to commit all your chips to take him off a marginal hand, you either do it on the turn or as you did on the river. Myself don't like bluffing all-in on the river (or on any street for that matter). You could have possibly bet smaller on the river to make it look like a milking bet, TBH this kind of all-in move is pretty high-wire poker and you need to be sure that the Villian is capable of laying down hands before you do something like this.

Although this is one of the leaks in my game too, I tend to try and bluff at unbluffable pots ...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

prob is that when a muppet calls you on the flop and turn it is fairly certain that they have something. Even if it is a lousy K-2 (giving them top pair in this case). Don't think you could have necessarily got away from the pre-flop / flop / turn - but you probably should have accepted that he had something at that stage and not thrown away your money on the river...

...obviously, i'm assuming that you didn't win this hand and that it isn't a post designed to showcase 'muppet play' on the part of an opponent

Amaru

Before the river card is dealt, stop and think about this.

Villain has called a preflop raise.
Villain has raised and called a reraise on the flop.
Villain has called a bigger bet on the turn.

At this point, what are they likely to have? And is it poor enough to fold to a big enough bet?

I think the answer is no, and the person almost certainly caught a piece of the flop. If they're calling on 3 streets, they're probably going to call on the last one. Another problem at the low stakes tables is that people will call with far worse hands than they should(over playing small pocket pairs is a classic example). While this is of benefit to you because you'll get paid off on your good hands, its a bad habit to get into, because as you move up limits, you'll still be mistaking calling for weakness. If anything, its the exact opposite.