Heads Up!!!liveline Today!!!!!17/11/05

Clare gunner

Dear all,
I was contacted this AM by one of the reseachers,nice girl by the name of Jane Murphy from Liveline about commenting on this issue of the Cross killing,two gangland shootings,and Minister O Deas gun handling.After me giving her some backround info on gun issues in Ireland,and especially on the NON "Right" of owning a gun here and the nono of getting a gun here for self defence,she wants me on the programme today.Couldnt get out of her who is going to be the oppo,if any.I also suggested that she contact Des of NARGC or Declan of FLAG.Apologies to any and all who might feel left out at this point but I couldnt think of anyone else or organisations,nor did I have any other numbers to hand.[Bit difficult on a mobile.] Onyways, it should be intresting.
So guys& gals man your phones!!!Here is an oppourtunity to put OUR points across that gun owners DO NOT equal villans,we are safe and harmless[mostly]etc.
If anyone wants to contact me quickly by email for any pointers or whateveras I will be away from this machine soon,get me on irishpi@o2.ie
Later...

Sparks

Declan of FLAG

Who's not the PRO for the NRPAI at the moment. Which is a perfect example of why we need better information on the governing bodies. None of the websites list contact information for journalists.

Clare gunner

Sparks,
she contacted me ,because she had my name from a previous article,not shooting related.But I agree with you 100% there should be a press contact number on everyones website here.Or better still the organisations should get pro active and contact the media themselves leaving a contact number.Only trouble I see with that is then we might get only one paticular segment of shooting delt with to the detriment of all the others.Better still could not all the organisations agree ,for once,to appointing a spokesman on shooting sports,not showing favour to either or any side?Otherwise it is left to ametuers like me to speak.

Sparks

Better still could not all the organisations agree ,for once,to appointing a spokesman on shooting sports,not showing favour to either or any side?

We surely could. The problem is finding this mythical beast who favours all sides of the sport equally

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

We surely could. The problem is finding this mythical beast who favours all sides of the sport equally

How much would you pay me?I'm maybe the said mythical beast!!!:D

civdef

Des Crofton is an excellent pro-shooting speaker.

Clare gunner

Seems to be a Willie O Dea bashing session.
I got into the discussion with Joe Duffy,got as as far Dunblane and the illegal amounts of firearms,and how easy it is to get one.Joe tried to get smart,and I get pushed off.Well that shows me somthing;they do not want to debate things properly or in any great depth.Nor did they want to mention anything about secure storage.I had to ring back to make a point on this matter,wether it was passed on to Mr duffy is questionable.
BTW Des is in Strasbourg.

MP

Clare gunner wrote:

Seems to be a Willie O Dea bashing session.
I got into the discussion with Joe Duffy,got as as far Dunblane and the illegal amounts of firearms,and how easy it is to get one.Joe tried to get smart,and I get pushed off.Well that shows me somthing;they do not want to debate things properly or in any great depth.Nor did they want to mention anything about secure storage.I had to ring back to make a point on this matter,wether it was passed on to Mr duffy is questionable.
BTW Des is in Strasbourg.

Are you unaware of Duffy's long time anti gun sentiments? I don't think Liveline is a good forum for trying to put across any type of pro gun view. He will be very pleased if he stirs up a second helping of anti gun callers on the show tomorrow. He advertised a program on "ease of getting licences" following the shooting in Kilkenny recently but never followed through on that occasion, he has been waiting for an opportunity like this for a while. Best not to give him a chance to push his anti agenda.

Clare gunner

MP,
remember it was them that called me ,not vise versa.Not only that we can now say that if anyone rings us anymore from that programme ,that unless they want to discuss this fairly and openly,they neednt bother.Just goes to show that when Messrs Ryan and Duffy are put in any position of disadvantage of knowledge they run away from the debate.Had to laugh at mr Duffys fake outrage at the gun club member fromKilkenny,and quite frankly insulting way he treated him.Not only his quote"that if this is the way Gun club members think,we are in big trouble here in Ireland"unquote.check it out on the RTE website.

rrpc

Joe Duffy hasn't got the MIPS for any sort of in depth discussion, he either cuts the caller off if he doesn't understand the issues, or goes into one of his rants ensuring that the caller can't get a word in. He had to back pedal furiously yesterday after the little rant he got into against the gun club member. I recall him some time ago going into a similar rant against an argument by Moore McDowell, who listened patiently and then interjected with "Joe, you're paid to emote, I'm paid to think and analyse objectively!".

To quote Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister; "There's so much wool in his head, it's childs play to pull it over his eyes"

civdef

I listened to about half of the programme last night, (it's available on the Liveline page on www.rte.ie) seemed reasonably balanced up to that point - though I understand it changed subsequently.

This "medical cert" issue keeps rearing its head, even though at this stage the concept is fairly well discredited.

Keelan

Iv just looked on that link but cant find it. Has anyone got info on it?, i missed it yeterday. Thanks

Mr E

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/

tabatha

i just think it was a joke......talk about ove reaction.....for god sake, people need to get lifes. it was a bloody photo. turn on your tv everyday and u see these images, some real, some not. just because he is a minister so what. he is human. its not like he shot anyone. so some druggies blew each others heads off, and the loss there is???

Keelan

TmB, i tryd the link, does not work on my computer, i have no acdc. What was it all about, any info on it?

Sparks

tabatha wrote:

i just think it was a joke......talk about ove reaction.....for god sake, people need to get lifes. it was a bloody photo. turn on your tv everyday and u see these images, some real, some not. just because he is a minister so what. he is human. its not like he shot anyone. so some druggies blew each others heads off, and the loss there is???

See above on Minister O'Dea's previous record with pistols...

Sniper220

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
That Joe Duffy is a P***K with a capital P The Man that was speaking was Mr larence Cushin a member of the same club that i am in and so was the late Mr Mick Kehoe. I mean joe duffy goes on to complain about us having a guard of honour at his funeral and says did we have our guns with us!! i mean is he for real of what:mad: It would match him better to get his facts right first before he goes and tries to make smart comments live on air!!:(

Sparks

Duffy's very anti-gun, but you have to admit that Mr. Cushin did none of us any favours yesterday. Aside from the lack of sensitivity to the other family involved from any of the bodies, gun club or GAA, to have had guards of honour at the funeral (why not just attend like every other person there?), he had to know how Duffy was going to react to his being on the show. He was an easy target. Liveline is a sensationalist tabloid affair, it's not Questions and Answers; and even if it were Q&A, you'd want to have your talking points in order before starting - Mr.Cushin rambled quite a bit and was so incoherent at one point that he seemed to be making the point that if the land involved was worth enough, it was acceptable to do violence to someone else over it!

Seriously folks, if you're going to speak on our behalf: speak clearly; don't get personal; always keep calm; have no more than three clear points that you want to make written down on your notepad in front of you; and don't wander off into segways or discussions on things you don't have expertise in!

Sniper220

Sparks.
I do agree with was you are saying if somebody goes on a show like that they must be a good speaker and be able to stand up clearly for what they are saying!!
As for the guard of honor it was done as a mere mark of respect thats the way things are done around here! the Gaa club also done the same nothing was said about them dough.

Sparks

Well, yes, but a hurley wasn't used to kill Healy. It was a horrific situation without any clear explanation or closure; I just think that the better thing to do there would have been to have gone to the funeral as his friends rather than as his gun club, if you follow me.

Sniper220

Emm Possibly
But it was not my decision we were asked to do so by the chairman.
It was a horrible thing to have happened and there is a lot more to it than anybody will ever know it was brewing for a while. Mr healey was a greedy man he went and bought the land underhandedly besause the price was cheap and no other farmer around would touch it! I blame healys solicitor he should have known better as he was from Graignemanagh(local)and knew the situation with it!!
I think that it would be best now if it was left lie insted of papers and radio stations draging it up.But i suppose because there was a gun involved were all going to look bad for some time to come!

jaycee

i suppose because there was a gun involved were all going to look bad for some time to come!

I konw what your trying to say, but I disagree with the tone of the comment,
It suggests that we should all hang our heads in shame and be quiet.

Instead I would say that the shooting population must totally condemn any and all gun related violence in the most vocal way possible.

This type of tragic event has nothing to do with the shooting sports , any more than a joyrider killing a cyclist has to do with a mother driving her kids to school.
Both use a car , but the manner of it's use is the difference.

I think it is most important to let it be seen that this in NO way reflects on the values and conduct of sportsmen.

Sniper220

Jacyee
Yes i agree 100%:)

Rovi

Sniper220 wrote:

Emm Possibly
But it was not my decision we were asked to do so by the chairman.
It was a horrible thing to have happened and there is a lot more to it than anybody will ever know it was brewing for a while. <snip stuff about the particulars of the land transaction>

‘The Land’ holds a particularly sacred place in the history and folk memory of the Irish, especially with country people.
It's not that long ago that people were being evicted by oppressive landlords and their agents, and even more recently, many Land Commission decisions were deeply divisive. My own Grandmother used to tell about the time my Grandfather bought his farm from the Land Commission (back in the ‘30s) and was effectively boycotted by many of the locals for several years, and felt sufficiently under threat to bring his shotgun with him everywhere he went.
To this day, a whisper of the term ‘Land Grabber’ is enough to turn most potential purchasers off any land deal, no matter what their motives or how much business sense it might make.

John B. Keane’s ‘The Field’ is an uncomfortably accurate portrayal of the sort of emotions that can be stirred up in land disputes.
Only very rarely (thank goodness!) do things go as far as they appear to have done in this case, but in rural Ireland, the disposal and aquisition of land is much, much more than a mere business transaction

.

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Duffy's very anti-gun, but you have to admit that Mr. Cushin did none of us any favours yesterday. Aside from the lack of sensitivity to the other family involved from any of the bodies, gun club or GAA, to have had guards of honour at the funeral (why not just attend like every other person there?), he had to know how Duffy was going to react to his being on the show. He was an easy target. Liveline is a sensationalist tabloid affair, it's not Questions and Answers; and even if it were Q&A, you'd want to have your talking points in order before starting - Mr.Cushin rambled quite a bit and was so incoherent at one point that he seemed to be making the point that if the land involved was worth enough, it was acceptable to do violence to someone else over it!

Seriously folks, if you're going to speak on our behalf: speak clearly; don't get personal; always keep calm; have no more than three clear points that you want to make written down on your notepad in front of you; and don't wander off into segways or discussions on things you don't have expertise in!

Best advise from Sparks there.
Just wodering why the PRO of the gun club didnt go on to make a statement on this matter??

mayhem#

Clare gunner wrote:

MP,
remember it was them that called me ,not vise versa.Not only that we can now say that if anyone rings us anymore from that programme ,that unless they want to discuss this fairly and openly,they neednt bother.Just goes to show that when Messrs Ryan and Duffy are put in any position of disadvantage of knowledge they run away from the debate.Had to laugh at mr Duffys fake outrage at the gun club member fromKilkenny,and quite frankly insulting way he treated him.Not only his quote"that if this is the way Gun club members think,we are in big trouble here in Ireland"unquote.check it out on the RTE website.

Did you really expect a fair and unbiased approach by the media on this issue?!
Just remember, safe & responsible firearm owners do not make great headlines. The average media personality lives by the size of it's audience hence they benefit from creating hysteria.
Not trying to second-guess you but I would have insisted on a list of issues to be discussed and I would have excused myself from the discussion as soon as they deviated from these.
There is no point in hammering on about the same points over and over again. Most people just do not want to understand these....

E.

"Democracy is ensured by three boxes: the soap-box, the ballot-box & the ammo-box"

Clare gunner

mayhem# wrote:

Did you really expect a fair and unbiased approach by the media on this issue?!

Actually,for once against my better judgement,I did.On the bsais that whith the prelim interview,the reseacher actually asked some pertinent questions on Irish gun law and listned to the answers without butting in every five words or so.

Just remember, safe & responsible firearm owners do not make great headlines. The average media personality lives by the size of it's audience hence they benefit from creating hysteria.

Agreed,I did aspire to journalism...once.

Not trying to second-guess you but I would have insisted on a list of issues to be discussed and I would have excused myself from the discussion as soon as they deviated from these.

I did,am too long at this game not to ask that,including who was going to be the oppos,which was left vauge.The issues to be debated where how easy it was to get a gun in Ireland,and about Minister O Deas gun handling.
Same old boring tactic employed by Duffy.Let the aggrevied party on forever,then give the"bad guys"limited air time.Trouble was Duffy didnt like the way one of the gun totin cretins could articulate and be more knowlegeable than his mighty self on this matter.Hence I got limited time and the Kilkenny gun club member, with no doubt all the best intentions ,got run into the mincer.The other trouble with all this debate was they had too many topics jammed into one debate. Minister O Dea,The Ward Killing,the three shootings in Dublin,the Kilkenny affair
First was going to be political bashing under the guise of gun saftey.
Second and last was going to be civillian and gun misuse.
Third was going to be crime.
All that could have been three progs in themselves,but was lumped together under "guns" and in the end it got nowhere,or made anyone anyone clearer on the issue.
The line from Don Henlys song"dirty laundery" springs to mind;
"We all know crap is king.Give us dirty laundery."

There is no point in hammering on about the same points over and over again. Most people just do not want to understand these....

Ahhh,but any politican going on to a programme will do just that!! You are not there to debate the issue,just get YOUR point across.Ever wonder why such political discussions are so simple minded and boringly repititious?

mayhem#

Clare gunner wrote:

Ever wonder why such political discussions are so simple minded and boringly repititious?

I stopped wondering that at the same time that I realised that politics does no longer have anything to do with ideals & principles but has turned into a money, power & career game....

E.

Clare gunner

Ah an enlightned citizen:D