DART/Commuter actually IE laugh in General

zap

Ok I understand that for years IE got no funding but now that we have these Darts and Commuter trains with digital displays, computer based announcements etc. why are they never switched on?

Also why are commuter trains being used on the Connolly to Rosslare route ok they are just about tolerable for the commuter route (1:30 mins) to Arklow maybe Gorey but they should not be used for 3 hour journeys from Dub to rosslare.

jd

zap wrote:

?

Also why are commuter trains being used on the Connolly to Rosslare route ok they are just about tolerable for the commuter route (1:30 mins) to Arklow maybe Gorey but they should not be used for 3 hour journeys from Dub to rosslare.

Irish Rail would prefer not to run a service south of Gorey. By putting crappy trains on the line to Wexford yhey can drive passengers away, and then use it as justification to mothball the line.
jd

Red Alert

they appear to want to replace all of their trains with those horrible multiple-unit systems. they are noisy inefficient and unpleasant to ride in. they also have much lower mechanical reliability than standard locomotives. they vibrate too much because they have an automatic gearbox like a bus rather than a diesel/electric drive system.

who gives a damn about the digital displays anyway?

zap

visually impared people or people who are deaf

zap

jd wrote:

Irish Rail would prefer not to run a service south of Gorey. By putting crappy trains on the line to Wexford yhey can drive passengers away, and then use it as justification to mothball the line.
jd

is it not financially viable for why?

jd

zap wrote:

is it not financially viable for why?

pardon?

MarkoP11

Red Alert wrote:

they appear to want to replace all of their trains with those horrible multiple-unit systems. they are noisy inefficient and unpleasant to ride in.

They are more efficent than the equivalent train length locomotive train when less than 8 coaches are involved they are also much faster in acceleration terms and have a lower infrastructure maintence cost. There is also a reduced staff cost as they can be driver only operated.

Baisc point is using a suburban train long distance is not acceptable and the poor folks in Sligo will learn that the hard way next month and IE management have ignored submissions to provide a better service without the use of suburban stock/. They are living in la la land. To be fair there is a history of poor funding but policy is still to replace intericty trains with physically fewer coaches than the old fleet had

Proper units designed for intercity use have proper interiors and much better sound proofing, better suspension in fact would be quieter than a lot of older coaches at speed.

Red Alert wrote:

they also have much lower mechanical reliability than standard locomotives.

Wrong they are 2 to 3 times more reliable since they can keep going with engines failed that is borne out in practice a train can continue in service with half its engines out. True one single fault can halt the train but the kinds of faults that do that (brake pipes, couplers, suspension) are quite independent of train type. The latest batch known as the 2900 have come out as the most reliable diesel train on the island and by a good margin as well which is strange since new trains tend to be really unreliable for the first 2-3 years so if this is bad the future should see things get even better

Red Alert wrote:

they vibrate too much because they have an automatic gearbox like a bus

There is a vibration issue but the majority don't have a gear box they have a hydraulic drive system (electric systems can lurch around too try an Irish intercity train at about 40mph)

Red Alert wrote:

who gives a damn about the digital displays anyway?

If you had poor eyesight, or where crushed in and not sure where you where, the audio is clearly handy for the blind and to wake you up. They are a legal requirement under EU legislation that will hit here in the next few years. They are inforced by some heavy legislation in the UK which we appear to be copying. It works quite well but there is a software bug which has lead to trouble (it corrupts the database) which seems to be now resolved. The train computer doesn't have the intercity timetable loaded so the displays don't work on Rosslare services

In some cases it is a staff issue but upon closer investigation to fault is technical not human in most cases

BuffyBot

I thought IE were ordering railcars for Intercity routes kitted out to Intercity spec - maybe I'm imagining things! If they were won't these be used to replace the 27/28/2900 class trains on routes like Rosslare etc

MarkoP11

Order placed January 2005 only sufficient to cover Heuston routes, nothing on order for Rosslare, Sligo, Cork Tralee etc

What is on order looks top class just ain't enough of it

zap

i was more so refering to the lack of the operating audio and visual display on Darts

morlan

zap wrote:

i was more so refering to the lack of the operating audio and visual display on Darts

The DART robot has gone a bit demented over the past 2 months.

Example, when the train is pulling out of the station, an announcement comes on:

"THIS IS...." and then a different voice "THIS TRAIN HAS CCTV"

And when approaching a station you will hear:

"THE NEXT STATION" and that's it. Surely the driver has the power to disable these confusing announcements. Obviously the computer doesn't know where it is or where it's going.

On some occasions (I think on the hybrid DARTs):

"This is a southbound train to Bray" and then really loudly "THIS IS A SOUTHBOUND TRAIN TO BRAY" - usually loud enough to cause discomfort to passengers. If you're on a hybrid DART (old mixed with new), on the older DARTs the speakers are not loud enough. I'm guessing that they have tried to compensate somehow by repeating the announcement with more amplification??

As for the onboard displays at either end of the carriage, they sometimes display the wrong station and destination, although usually they are correct. Sometimes they display weird characters, scrolling up and down. After a long days work it becomes quite hypnotic to look at

zap

luas info works perfect everytime, why can't DART?

strassenwolf

On trains in from Maynooth, especially the later evening trains, one of the announcements can be a bit strange. I've heard on several occasions between Ashtown and Broombridge "the next station is...Balbriggan"

Anyone else heard this? I don't know what causes it but it can be a bit disorientating. I suppose it's something to do with the computer confusing two stations with the letter B, though why it's always Balbriggan rather than Blackrock or Booterstown is a mystery.

MarkoP11

As I said there is database corruption problem and this is characteristic

On train systems rely on distance travelled from a known starting point, Luas has the benefit of transponders in the track to know where it is. And yes I have seen it go wrong

The older units don't have the equipment fitted so the announcements don't work right and can only manage this is a x bound train to y. That said in 5 years I've only heard it go wrong 4 times, the first time it announced Barrow Street about a week before it opened, Barrow Street became Grand Canal Dock in due course

Picture this scenario the Platform 11 crew are in an office having a meeting in Connolly discussing the whole on train information problem, meeting is halted breifly as a train sails past below with next station Sutton on the side

We have been tracking this issue http://platform11.hyperboards3.com/index.cgi?action=display&cat=welcome&board=IE&thread=1125483995&find=1131905494#1131905494 and if we actually bothered we could fill pages every single day

daymobrew

strassenwolf wrote:

On trains in from Maynooth, especially the later evening trains, one of the announcements can be a bit strange. I've heard on several occasions between Ashtown and Broombridge "the next station is...Balbriggan"

Over the weekend a former IE employee told me that when a driver starts the journey he enters his code. This code (generally correctly entered but not always) informs the passenger info systems (those on the platforms) the train's destination.
He explained that the track circuit was used by the train and signalling system to know where the train was, and presumably which station is next [MarkoP11, I know that this contradicts what you said - pm and I'll disclose my source]. I have no idea why Balbriggan would be announced, especially if previous announcements were correct. When the trains with announcements started, it would often incorrectly state that the next station was Coolmine, before arriving at Castleknock. Some people were confused.

You should write to IE (maybe Acting CEO, Richard Fearn). Platform 11 are obviously tracking these issues but there is no harm in a regular member of the public reporting the issue.

MarkoP11

The train works off knowing where it started and the distances between stations and resets when the doors open to correct for any inaccuracy between stations. There is no GPS all the train has is distance travelled from a known point. The signalling system does not tell the train where it is it does tell it what the next signal is, but not its location or id. Luas seems to be told through transponders buried in the track so it has a major advantage even then it does go wrong as well

Every train has a unique 4 digit code (eg E201 being the first DART to Bray each morning), that gets plugged into the radio, driver can then push the ready button if needs be to notify the signalling system that he is ready but in many cases it is not needed. The train computer uses that number and the date to load the correct timetable)

The platform displays work off the fact the signalling system knows where trains are and knows from the timetable where they are going (this timetable is not quite the one they publish), the system then estimates journey time to your location based on the trains location, timetable and known point to point times and to be fair it works very very well and since it is linked directly to the signalling system it updates based on the decisions made in real time

The instructions to operate the PIS system on a 2900 are as follows (taken from an official IE notice)

1 Enter train ID as usual on the train radio (rule book requirement)

2 When the train is standing at the platform from which the train will actually depart press [/] once (sets the trains starting location)

3 When train the appears on the screen press [-] to accept. The screen then should then change to show the route map. Check that the station name listing on the screen is the correct starting station, if it is correct press [-]

4 If for some reason the train is not starting from the usual station different stations may be selected by pressing + and -and confirmed by pressing [-]

5 Press [/] again to return to the CCTV screen

Clearly point 2 highlights the need of the system to know where it is

Since we started to log things things have improved dramatically, a pattern emerged. The key thing is to get a very long long list since the typical response from IE is it was a once off technical fault. So every single time log the exact problem and the mountain of evidence builds up quite quickly http://platform11.hyperboards3.com/index.cgi?action=display&cat=welcome&board=IE&thread=1125483995&find=1131905494#1131905494

Its a lot more than just the PA and display its having the right destination front and rear as well as basic thing every other operator seems to manage without much hassle (Dublin Bus is an example to hold up nearly 100% with the new display system they have)

Its CEO Richard Fearn now btw

Heads will roll is what we have been told, since then there has been a new software release (the one that spells Sidney Parade incorrectly with a y) on both DART and Arrow and it has been a significant improvement

Public embarrassment is the only way