Mechanical sympathy

BrianD3

Most people here know a fair bit about cars and probably make an effort to drive with as much mechanical sympathy as possibele. So, what sort of things do you do in an effort to maximise the reliability and longevity of your car. Simple things like not revving the bollox out of a cold engine, not using the clutch to hold the car on hills (it's amazing how many eejits do this, extemely bad for the clutch)

seamus

I (now) do both of what you said there, along with anything else that occurs to me. I've also managed to break out the habit of clutch braking that I picked up when I first started driving. Should save me a few thousand in new clutches.

Boggle

Simple things like using the right gear when driving (so as not to over-rev your engine), driving steady (not accelerating and breaking every 2 seconds)...

...pity i don't have my car anymore!!:( Miss my baby....!! (now look what you did - I'm off for a cry...)

BrianD3

What prompted this thread was yesterday i was stuck in roadworks behind another car. Yer man in front was stationary for ~10 minutes and had his foot plonked on the brake pedal all the time. As well as annoying my eyes with his brake lights (it was dark so they were very bright) I was thinking that he could be risking warping his brake disks and possibly increasing wear on other parts of the brake system such as seals etc.? Now I'm not sure if hogging the brake pedal has much/any effect but it'd be no harm and good driving to just engage the bloody handbrake.

Another related thing - many people sit in traffic with their foot plonked on the clutch pedal and the car in gear. Apparently this increases wear on the clutch release bearing. If you are going to be stationary for a while put the car in neutral, take you foot off the cluth and brake and engage the handbrake

seamus

Aye, especially in cold weather, leaving your foot on the brake pedal could begin to warp the discs. In heavy stationary traffic I tend to handbrake and neutral and take the opportunity rest my feet.

mike65

I hate abrupt motoring (blame it on creeping middle age) so drive in as silky a fashion as possible putting little strain on belts/chains/steering/drivetrain/brakes as possible. That does'nt mean I'm slow just smooth.

Mike.

el tel

Even just having you foot just lightly resting on the cluch pedal can cause undue wear in the linkage or pedal mechanism so that's a habit best avoided,
as is resting your hand on the gear lever for similar reasons.
As you all probably know, as well as avoiding over-revving in a high gear it's best not to labour the engine by driving in too low a gear.

jayok

Yer man in front was stationary for ~10 minutes and had his foot plonked on the brake pedal all the time.

May be it was an automatic?

De Hipster

I tend to use the gear selection to assist in slowing my vehicle down...too much time spent in rally circles I fear.

Ratchet

seamus wrote:

....In heavy stationary traffic I tend to handbrake and neutral and take the opportunity rest my feet.

yeah brake with without brake light , how smart

bp_me

jayok wrote:

May be it was an automatic?

I hope not....automatics have a neutral as well......you arent supposed to hold them on the breaks for long periods.

De Hipster

very nice quattro there BP

seamus

Ratchet wrote:

yeah brake with without brake light , how smart

Em, what use are brake lights to the guy who's been sitting behind me in traffic for the last five minutes? :rolleyes:

lomb

used cars dont last long in ireland anyway, everyone wants new (probably because they are in such bad condition:D )

AMurphy

Don't anything special. just drive them.
I don't tend to overrev generally or even boot it even to normal revs on a cold engine, but given a mile or two to heat up...
I often have to boot it to out-accelerate an oncoming car on an exit/entry merging lane, which I will do. I have caught myself doing about 65 in 3rd.
Keep the fluids topped up, even if it leaks.
Don't brake unless you have to.
If you have to take off on a hill, do so at the lowest RPM and as quickly as possible, easier on a large engine, than a tiny one.

AMurphy

BrianD3 wrote:

....Yer man in front was stationary for ~10 minutes and had his foot plonked on the brake pedal all the time. As well as annoying my eyes with his brake lights (it was dark so they were very bright) I was thinking that he could be risking warping his brake disks and possibly increasing wear on other parts of the brake system such as seals etc.? Now I'm not sure if hogging the brake pedal has much/any effect but it'd be no harm and good driving to just engage the bloody handbrake.

Another related thing - many people sit in traffic with their foot plonked on the clutch pedal and the car in gear. .....

Sitting with your foot on the brake pedal stopped, won't do diddly squat of damage to them. I drive that way. Everyone around here drives or rather stops/holds at lights that way. After 500K combined vehicle \mileage, it would have become apparent by now, it were a problem.
Lights never bother me... Read the paper or something, make use of the megawats being pumped out by the SUV behind you.actually it is good to hold the brakes on here, as it may be misunderstood if you were not, and some car coming up from the rear, NOT seeing the brake lights might think you were going to move and accelerate/drive into the back of you.
Sometimes If there is a hole or dip in the road, I just let a wheel sit in the hole and hold me with no brakes of any kind applied.

Sure, I agree with you on item 2, plus, depending on the vehicle, engine and what you and it happen to be doing at the time, if you were to have sudden cable failure, it may run forward into something in front of you.

seamus

AMurphy wrote:

Sitting with your foot on the brake pedal stopped, won't do diddly squat of damage to them. I drive that way. Everyone around here drives or rather stops/holds at lights that way.

You're in California though. The main issue with keeping your foot on the brakes (particularly in the Irish winter) is that the rest of the brake disc will cool at a faster rate than the section between the pressed brake pads, eventually leading to warping of the disc.

bp_me

De Hipster wrote:

very nice quattro there BP

tis....sadly not mine :cool:

AMurphy

seamus wrote:

You're in California though. The main issue with keeping your foot on the brakes (particularly in the Irish winter) is that the rest of the brake disc will cool at a faster rate than the section between the pressed brake pads, eventually leading to warping of the disc.

Yes.. but, 2/3 of the US probably have winters far colder than Wicklow in a blizzard.... and they drive or stop exactly the same and I have not heard of any rash of warped disks in Minnesota or Oklahoma in winter, where the winchill could crack your face in a few minutes.
Sure the the disk will cool at a different rate, but if you consider, when you are stopped with the brakes off, thus leaving approx 0.25 ~0.5mm air gap between the disk and the pads, and air being a really poor conductor of heat and the gap being to small to support any degree of convection, your exposed disk would cool faster than that between the pads, they should warp equally well, but they don't. Reason being good disks are temp stabilized and then machined.
And if your rear disks use the same pads for the HB, then such cars as Maxima should suffer from permanently warped rear disks.. if you drive one, brake hard and use the park/hand brake to hold it at lights, I've not heard any complaints there either. Camry is different to the Maxima at the back.

No, to warp disks, you really have to heat the carp out of those things, every time you use the brakes.

Ratchet

seamus wrote:

Em, what use are brake lights to the guy who's been sitting behind me in traffic for the last five minutes? :rolleyes:

To tell frustrated guy behind you that you are stopping after you are on the move again. If somebody runs into your back , you just going to generate more traffic.

Anyway, it will be very hard to warp cold discs in cold weather. So except wearing you handbrake you are not actually preventing anything

lomb

brake discs are a consumable anyway like pads, they are pretty cheap.

seamus

Ratchet wrote:

To tell frustrated guy behind you that you are stopping after you are on the move again. If somebody runs into your back , you just going to generate more traffic.

I'm confused. Clearly I use the foot brake to bring the vehicle to a stop. If I look like I'm going to be there for a while, I apply the handbrake. Before I move off again, I press the footbrake, disengage the handbrake and move off.

Ratchet

seamus wrote:

I'm confused. .

no i was confused ,just had picture in my head of you braking with only handbrake....sorry my fault

Silvera

My tips........

- Don't rev a cold engine too much, give the oil a chance to circulate first, or better still- give it a chance to warm up a little.

- Drive smoothly, using the gears and easing off the accelerator in order to help the car slow down .........rather than braking heavily as a lot of people seem to do.

- Service it on time - every time.

- Check fluid levels and tyre pressures regularly.

.....and I always find that I'm that bit more careful with my car when it is kept clean and polished regularly


As for keeping the brakes applies when stationary ......

I doubt that this would cause brake discs to warp to any degree - heavy braking is what causes warping to discs.


However, keeping your foot on the pedal when stopped at traffic lights, etc can be annoying to drivers behind you. It is a regular topic/grievance in UK mags, websites.

Lately I have become more conscious of this and have made an effort to use my handbrake whenever possible.
(It's just one less little stress on other drivers).

Capt'n Midnight

Originally Posted by seamus
....In heavy stationary traffic I tend to handbrake and neutral and take the opportunity rest my feet.

Ratchet wrote:

yeah brake with without brake light , how smart

If you park on a hill can you let the car roll forward a little while in gear to get it oiled up before you start the engine - or will that kill the cat ?

AMurphy

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Originally Posted by seamus
....In heavy stationary .....
If you park on a hill can you let the car roll forward a little while in gear to get it oiled up before you start the engine - or will that kill the cat ?

I doubt you are preoiling anything that matters. Just start the engine and wait a few sec before starting off. Start engine, and let it idle while you are attaching the belt and tuning the radio, then drive off.

jayok

I had heard all the "keeping your foot on the brakes will cause disc warping" stuff before, indeed, I had to get a set replaced once and that was the reason I was given. However, like other posters, I don't think keeping your foot on the brake will cause this for the simple reason that I would imagine the ABS system (when activated) will give the discs are far greater hammering that keeping your foot on them. I would imagine that if the discs are designed to take this pounding them my foot at lights won't make much of a difference.

unkel

Driving as smoothly as possible. I never go over 2000rpm before the engine is fully warmed up. Anything at all wrong with the car and it will tell me, so I never need to check anything myself - great! Always serviced on time (again the car tells me when it needs to be serviced)

AMurphy

unkel wrote:

Driving as smoothly as possible. I never go over 2000rpm before the engine is fully warmed up. ....)

At what point do you determine the car is "fully warmed up", when hot air comes out he air vents or when the needle gets to the normal position.?

It takes about 1 mile to get hot air in mine, but about 5 miles for the temp gauge to get to the usual position. No way I'm gong to wait for 5 miles before revving up the engine.

unkel

AMurphy wrote:

At what point do you determine the car is "fully warmed up", when hot air comes out he air vents or when the needle gets to the normal position.?

It takes about 1 mile to get hot air in mine, but about 5 miles for the temp gauge to get to the usual position. No way I'm gong to wait for 5 miles before revving up the engine.

About just under a mile and 2 miles respectively for me. And yes, I do wait until the temp gauge reaches normal before revving

AMurphy

Hmm, OK.
Probably less than 5 miles to fully heat up on mine.
Yours Diesel or petrol?.

maybe in a diesel, just maybe, and if it were very cold... but If I had a diesel in CA, and It were very cold, I'd fit a block heater and a timer, so it's ready to go on startup.

Just observing, since you mentioned it... I'm most always over 2K rpm, mostly in the 2.5 to 4K region on acceleration, hitting 5K on the odd occasion... or if I forget to change gear again... Creeping OFS.

unkel

AMurphy wrote:

Yours Diesel or petrol?

LOL, V8 petrol automatic. 2k rpm is fine for moving about for the first few minutes

I'm being conservative estimating that I am below 2k rpm for well over 90% of the time

AMurphy

aha, gotya, I was about to ask that...full specs, cause I just remembered, the van rarely passes 2500 rpm most of the time. its a 3.3L-V6.

What is this vehicle you drive anyway? V8 Micra?

unkel

AMurphy wrote:

What is this vehicle you drive anyway? V8 Micra?

Hehe nothing wrong with a Micra. Any links to a V8 one? Mine's a '96 BMW E38 735iA Executive, see sig

AMurphy

Hmmmm...nothing in the Sig that convevs the identity of the vehicle, just "Bla Claith" and a vew other non specific items.... Well maybe what you see and what I see differ. Don't see very many 735's about here, not sure if I have ever seen one, 740 and 740iL, are common enough and their replacement. 745 or something like that, as are 5##'s
Oh, well, stay between the ditches.

unkel

AMurphy wrote:

Hmmmm...nothing in the Sig that convevs the identity of the vehicle

Googled the first line of my sig?

AMurphy wrote:

Don't see very many 735's about here, not sure if I have ever seen one, 740 and 740iL, are common enough

Yeah the same engined 740 (4.4 liters) is much more common on your side of the water

ambro25

* Let the engine idle for a good minute or two on cold start, any day of the year.

* Drive in/around 2 krpm until temp gauge in position (middle, here), takes a good 10 miles in clear traffic, less in urban (again, that's me, might not be you)

* Generally keep in/around 2krpm or more once warm (no more than 5 krpm even when booting it), as under 2 krpm the engine is under-revving, which is just as bad as over-revving.

* Use both brakes and engine brake (down-shifting) to slow car down and reduce wear on brake parts (I've never yet had to change pads, dics or tyres @ less than 30,000-odd kms).

* Anticipate & drive steadily so that you don't have to subject the car to undue stress through hard or emergency braking.

* In very slow traffic queues ("quasi-stationary"), don't ride the clutch for ages to move inch by inch. Stop, handbreak, gear out. When there's at least a car length out or -better- two, then gear in and move, and repeat. You'll use less petrol, put less wear on clutch.

* Generally when stopped, handbrake on & let go of brakes (unless you're last in line, but still handbrake on). This is not a consideration of the guy behind being blinded, or risk of warped sics or any such as discussed before, but if you are unfortunate enough to be rear-ended, the handbrake may save your front-end, since people 'stood on the brakes' and rear-ended usually release their foot from the brakes after the impact (by reflex/momentum when they 'fall back on their seat') and then roll into the car in front. Learned that in paramedic classes (Fra).
* Get used to your car and find the optimum gear for any speed, which will vary to a fairly large extent depending on car/engine size/ratios.
Example (MX-5 1.8i here):
_0 to 15 kph in 1st
_15 to 30kph in 2nd
_30 to 50 kph in 3rd
_50kph 'steady' in 4th (though at 1,700-1,900 rpm: sticking to 50kph really is bugging me, feels to high in 3rd and too low in 4th for it)
_70kph onwards in 5th
Generally, should be at 2krpm at any of the above (but again depends on car/engine/ratios). As a matter of interest, the above is equally applicable to my Impreza 2L (n/a).

*Keep the car clean: (i) people will see you better and from further when you clean lights, (ii) you'll not have to use heavy-ish detergents (or friction) to clean the accumulated grime (which can scratch the paintwork when there's "a lot" of it to remove, e.g. people who don't clean for 3 months then put the car ythrough the rollers), (iii) nothing harder to remove than tar spots left alone for weeks if not months.

* Check you liquids (once a week or once every two weeks), get used to what levels are 'normal' for your car so that you can spot any problem the day (well... week) it happens and take action immediately rather than when the engine says "time-out".

*Check you tyre pressure (same frequency as above), maladjusted/unbalanced pressures have an effect on fuel consumption (hence engine wear), tyre thread rate of wear, etc. Not to mention risk of blow-out if driving for long periods of time with improper pressure.

* Service you car at intervals. Manufacturers don't invent servicing intervals for the sake of it, they don't tie their warranties to imaginary requirements. Regular oil & filter changes benefit engine longevity by avoiding undue stress on mechanical parts through the changing viscosity of oil, the gradual obstruction of the filters, and the like.

My €0.04

NUTLEY BOY

Another tip is to slow down BEFORE you reach one of those stupid speed bumps and drive over it slowly.

I am astonished at the number of idiots who regularly plough in to speed bumps too quickly and end up grounding the front of the car on the far side of the bump.

The really funny bit is where you stare at them once you hear the inevitable grind and crash but they look straight ahead as if they are oblivious to what just happened. Hang on, they probably are oblivious.

You can tell the troublesome speed bumps by the numbers of score marks on the road surface on the exit side !!

Any bets that those bumps, sorry "traffic calming measures" will probably be dug up in the next five years ?

AMurphy

unkel wrote:

Googled the first line of my sig?
..........

Could you have made it any more difficult?. :rolleyes:

michaelanthony

BrianD3 wrote:

What prompted this thread was yesterday i was stuck in roadworks behind another car. Yer man in front was stationary for ~10 minutes and had his foot plonked on the brake pedal all the time. As well as annoying my eyes with his brake lights (it was dark so they were very bright) I was thinking that he could be risking warping his brake disks and possibly increasing wear on other parts of the brake system such as seals etc.? Now I'm not sure if hogging the brake pedal has much/any effect but it'd be no harm and good driving to just engage the bloody handbrake.

Another related thing - many people sit in traffic with their foot plonked on the clutch pedal and the car in gear. Apparently this increases wear on the clutch release bearing. If you are going to be stationary for a while put the car in neutral, take you foot off the cluth and brake and engage the handbrake

If the car that you are talking about is an automatic, then you are supposed to leave the car in drive and apply the brake when you are stopped in normal driving conditions.

unkel

AMurphy wrote:

Could you have made it any more difficult?. :rolleyes:

LOL, sorry!

It wasn't really fair either as it would have led you to either a reference to my car here on boards, or to the original article about a ... 740d (diesel)

ambro25

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Another tip is to slow down BEFORE you reach one of those stupid speed bumps and drive over it slowly.

I am astonished at the number of idiots who regularly plough in to speed bumps too quickly and end up grounding the front of the car on the far side of the bump.

That's not half the problem.

In the context of the thread (car maintenance and care and, well, prevention of problems down the line through misuse), you wouldn't believe how nasty speed bumps can be for your bushes if you don't slow right down when you go over them... nor how few people are aware of the problem, including car dealers (granted most of those are not very mechanically minded anyhow).

AMurphy

michaelanthony wrote:

If the car that you are talking about is an automatic, then you are supposed to leave the car in drive and apply the brake when you are stopped in normal driving conditions.

Not really, there is no requirement to do the above, just cause it is automatic.
Saves some gas if you put it in N or P and let it idle unloaded.
It's convenient that you can leave it in D with your foot onthe brake, while saiting for the light to change, but there is no requirement you HAVE to do that.
I know a lady used to stop the engine and put in it gear, (manual tranny) while waiting for lights.

slowhands

michaelanthony wrote:

If the car that you are talking about is an automatic, then you are supposed to leave the car in drive and apply the brake when you are stopped in normal driving conditions.

If You are stopped for in traffic its best to put an automatic into park or neutral and use the handbrake,leaving it in drive with your foot on the brake puts unnessecary strain on the clutch.

AMurphy

slowhands wrote:

If You are stopped for in traffic its best to put an automatic into park or neutral and use the handbrake,leaving it in drive with your foot on the brake puts unnessecary strain on the clutch.

"unnessecary strain on the clutch"


What clutch?. an A/T uses a torque converter, which is a turbine and pump assembly in one. The only strain if any is you are heating the ATF oil and wasting energy doing it, as the pump side is spinning and the turbine side stopped, put it in P or N and both spin.

Otherwise, the AT itself is full of clutches, they are under constant strain when driving....so any strain they are under when ideling is of no consequences.

NUTLEY BOY

Good point ambro25. I had exactly that problem last year.

Even though I have always been deliberately very slow over speed bumps Toyota found worn bushes on last year's annual service.

Traffic calming indeed ************