Neuro Linguistic Programming and Martial Arts

Musashi

I've seen on a few of the RBSD and Combatives Forums that a lot of the leading exponents are also training in NLP.Some of them (LEOs) claim to be able to spot a suspect lying even if they are out of earshot, purely by their body language?I get the gist of what it's about and how it is supposed to work, but how do you learn more?

I'm hoping Millionaire will enlighten us as to what he sees as the benefits of being trained in NLP and how to go about learning if we wanted to follow this course

I can see it being handy in the prelim. or "Interview" stage of conflict resolution. If there is a talking stage that is, I'd love to see a real life instance just like "These are not the droids you are looking for"

Do you teach this in your syllabus Gerry? Or is it one of the "secrets" of your Krav Maga that won't be taught until tenth Dan grade is achieved by your students? Just messing, though I'm sure it goes on in some schools and styles!

Millionaire

NLP can be used for many many different things in life. I am certified NLP Practicitioner....was supposed to do Masters in October with Paul McKenna but something came up and I had to postpone until next year. The Masters is where you really learn. So I am not an expert.

NLP can be used for effective communication. I would use NLP communications principles in teaching Self Defence. I also used it in my business , which is recruitment and NLP can be used to Influence someone. Especially if you spot their communication strategy.

Re LEO detecting lying...I imagine that is Eye Accessing Clues...as they say in NLP. look at www.paulmckenna.com there is some articles on spotting lyingon there.

Also NLP come be used to achieve peak performance in athlestes in sport.

As I said I used NLP mainly to build rapport with people, to master communication with peopel, and for Infulencing people.

Yeah I know the likes to Rich Dimitri is into NLP. and Den Martin etc.

There is no NLP in KM.

Actually re KM, what I teach now is probably 60% KM and the rest RBSD which I like much more.

I really like the style of Lee Morrission and got his new DVD recently and Rich Dimitri , and Sammy Franco. That is the direction, I am going in personally.

For example alot of KM schools, you line you like a MA class, wear gi bottoms, practice like..."Step 1 attacker stabs with Knife, defender blocks, counters" where in RBSD world its more up to date training and more REAL. and KM is so damn political now , !!!

Thats off topic a bit but roll on RBSD

john kavanagh

here's an article i came across on NLP any comments Gerry?

here's a piece

"Do people benefit from NLP?

While I do not doubt that many people benefit from NLP training sessions, there seem to be several false or questionable assumptions upon which NLP is based. Their beliefs about the unconscious mind, hypnosis and the ability to influence people by appealing directly to the subconscious mind are unsubstantiated. All the scientific evidence which exists on such things indicates that what NLP claims is not true. You cannot learn to "speak directly to the unconscious mind " as Erickson and NLP claim, except in the most obvious way of using the power of suggestion.

NLP claims that its experts have studied the thinking of great minds and the behavior patterns of successful people and have extracted models of how they work. "From these models, techniques for quickly and effectively changing thoughts, behaviors and beliefs that get in your way have been developed."* But studying Einstein's or Tolstoy's work might produce a dozen "models" of how those minds worked. There is no way to know which, if any, of the models is correct. It is a mystery why anyone would suppose that any given model would imply techniques for quick and effective change in thoughts, actions and beliefs. I think most of us intuitively grasp that even if we were subjected to the same experiences which Einstein or Tolstoy had, we would not have become either. Surely, we would be significantly different from whom we've become, but without their brains to begin with, we would have developed quite differently from either of them.

Millionaire

Thats a deep article...interestiing... I cannot answer that...as I do no understand NLP to that level.

However this may help...

Top NLP people have changed people with problems...say smoking, depression, phobia etc , who have been in therapy for years. and the NLPers did it in sometimes minutes to hours.

Richard Bandler (NLP founder) when he was doining sessions only would take cases, that were in therapy for a min of 8 years , with no results...and would "cure" them often in an hour.

Anthony Robbins www.tonyrobbins.com used to do the same in 1 hour. and he only had very basic NLP training....but he Mastered what he did know...by NLPing anyone he same across.

One thing re NLP or Hypnosis...I am 90% certain on this....is that Change will not happen....unless the person REALLY REALLY WANTS TO CHANGE. if they are only interested in change in will not work.

So say Tony robbins before he would consider working with someone, would make them spend an hour trying to connvince him why he should help them, and if they were willing to change.....sure the job was 50% done by then!!

good sites www.nlpweekly.com www.nlp.ie

Musashi

Some good links there lads, must have a look later on.

Just dropping my little boy to the babysitter then off to work a 12 hour

I might have a look this morning around three, if work isn't too busy :rolleyes:

john kavanagh

"Richard Bandler (NLP founder) when he was doining sessions..."

interesting end to the article on Bandler...

"postscript: On a more cheerful note, Bandler has sued Grinder for millions of dollars. Apparently, the two great communicators and paradigm innovators couldn't follow their own advice or perhaps they are modeling their behavior after so many other great Americans who have found that the most lucrative way to communicate is by suing someone with deep pockets. NLP is big on metaphors and I doubt whether this nasty lawsuit is the kind of metaphor they want to be remembered by. Is Bandler's action of putting a trademark on half a dozen expressions a sign of a man who is simply protecting the integrity of NLP or is it a sign of a greedy megalomaniac?"

"Anthony Robbins www.tonyrobbins.com used to do the same..."

article by someone who attended a 12hr 'success' seminar with tony et al

what is the secret of success

judomick

"people must really want to change" i had this discussion with someone who wanted to quit smoking, if there willing to go the the length of paying 250 euro and see a hypnotist, i think they already have the motivation the hypnotist just acts as a catalyst, the formality of seeing a "specialist" is what they need to say " im giving up" the hypnotist is a placebo they think there getting. they believe because they want to give up

Millionaire

Oh NLP has its fair share of politics, and people changing the name of NLP and calling it their own..but listen...what we should be concerned with is does this stuff work...or not. (not the other BS and infighting etc etc)

Tony Robbins has some great stuff. I have been 3 of his seminars. some of it is excellent...some is a bit too dramatic for me. Tony does NLP and has added in his own bits, and has marketed it as his own brand.

About 1- 5 % of people follow through on what is done at these seminars.

Does this stuff work...yes it those...if you use it. When I was most successful im my life (so far...I will be more successful very soon), I used all this stuff and was listen to Tony and reading book all the time I was not working. and I made a FORTUNE in less than a year, at 28 years old, and got to do things people would envy. and I started from nothing. Now I am not saying that to boast, or impress (cause I made bad decisions later inlife and lost it all LOL!!!!!!!!!!!) but I was applying Tony Robbins stuff and it worked for me!

and many many of the most richest, successful, businessmen in the world, still attend Tonys events. Larry Ellission from Oracle went 2 years ago, bought his own ticket, and told no one who he was. Though they are the exceptions of course.

I use NLP principles daily in my business life, personal life, etc and the parts I use...work for me....brilliantly.

anyway I do not feel qualified to argue the pros and cons of NLP, as I am just a "white belt" and learn. but there is loads of resources on the web. some may help you.

PJG

Millionaire wrote:

Tony Robbins has some great stuff. I have been 3 of his seminars. some of it is excellent...some is a bit too dramatic for me. Tony does NLP and has added in his own bits, and has marketed it as his own brand.


and many many of the most richest, successful, businessmen in the world, still attend Tonys events. Larry Ellission from Oracle went 2 years ago, bought his own ticket, and told no one who he was. Though they are the exceptions of course.

I use NLP principles daily in my business life, personal life, etc and the parts I use...work for me....brilliantly.

anyway I do not feel qualified to argue the pros and cons of NLP, as I am just a "white belt" and learn. but there is loads of resources on the web. some may help you.

Yeah Millionaire, I’d agree that life\business coaches are were beneficial. I have read a lot of the Robbins, Stephan Covey & Robbin Sharma books and audio Cd’s.

I'm no expert either I have done a bit of self study on NLP and besides the body language reading stuff it boils down to trying to get people to change how the perceive themselves, others and situations. The can see how NLP is highly beneficial to managers, leaders and athletes.

cletus

John, love the tips for success article, one of the better reads I've had in a while

john kavanagh

just don't tell anyone the 'secrets' of success or we won't be the only millionaires:D lol!!

aw shucks, seen as its nearly xmas i'll list the main 'secrets' - now go be successful!!

Jump up and down and scream.

The most important thing in the world is: Psychology.

-- Optimism is good.

-- Communism was bad. "I've been to the Berlin Wall," Brian says, "and I've been on both sides of the Iron Curtain, and I could tell you stories that would take a long time."

-- Computers are important, and we should learn to use them.

-- The future will be "distinctly different" from the past.

-- We are ALL in sales.

-- We are ALL the presidents of our own companies.

-- Don't whine and complain!
-- You have to overcome difficulty.

-- Try hard!

-- The most important thing in the world is: Belief.

-- If you want to be an All-American, you should not get involved with "booze and drugs and sex and heroin."
-- Stress is bad.

-- Peter Lowe has had stress, putting on seminars such as Peter Lowe's SUCCESS 1997.

-- At one point, he was losing $50,000 a week!

-- But he did not quit!

-- Winners never quit!

-- Abraham Lincoln did not quit!

-- Paul Harvey is another good example.

-- You should not leave your seed in the barn. ("Don't leave today with your seed in the barn," are Peter Lowe's exact words.)

other such golden nuggets of wisdom can be found in the article

Millionaire

YES YES YES YES !!!!!!! JOHN YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(mill has gone nuts and is jumpng about the office)

ALL I NEED IS WITHIN ME NOW!!!!

ALL I NEED IS WITH ME NOW!!!!


OH YES....AND....

I AM THE VOICE!

I WILL LEAD NOT FOLLOW!

I WILL CREATE NOT DESTROY!!

I AM A FORCE FOR GOOD!

I AM A FORCE FOR GOD!

DEFY THE ODDS!

SET A NEW STANDARD!

SET UP! SET UP! SET UP!


Mill storms across 30 feet of burning hot coals in his barefeet, as Tony looks on!!!!

And so I have!!!!

Right roll the money in!!!!!


]hell I actually feel quite great after that rant!!!

john kavanagh

Bwahahaha:d

Roper

I have looked for ten minutes for an article on this very topic that I read during the year and I can find it not.

Suffice to say that for the "quit smoking" routines, the available Psychological/Scientific evidence points directly to what JudoMick said above. The subconscious (or more often conscious) "I've seen a professional therefore" phenomenon is the key factor in these cases. NLP is almost universally dismissed as a pseudo-scientific and despite it's convincing sounding claims, fails in an empirical environment.

Paul McKenna makes it look good on TV though...

Musashi

But Paul McKenna throws the cameras out while he does the Biz. then calls them back for the "reveal"

I am not saying he's not effective, he obviously is and Gerry has met him and knows better than us what the man is like! But he is a showman and does use the media to futher his business, and why not?

Gerry, would you not do better just doing NLP and forgetting about Krav Maga except as a hobby? Being certified by Paul must mean a lot in this arena and could ensure a steady income of at least a "comfortable" level?

From what I've seen, most of Tony Robbins stuff is aimed at teaching Americans to stop blaming others and take some responsibility for their lives ffs!
The rest is very familiar to anyone who has looked at Sports Science with it's Positive Viualisation and the rest which very succesful athletes subscribe to wholeheartedly! Knowing that SBG and John Kav. are all about the best and most productive training methods I look forward to hearing how John rates these practices! Does Millionaire rate them as well?

This is a good learning thread for me at any rate!


One minor point, Abraham Lincoln did not quit, he got shot! His situational awareness was not all it should have been and the Secret Service was not in existence then!

Millionaire

Actually Never met Paul...and I was supposed to train in last month in UK under him and Richard Bandler...but something came up and I had to cancel. I am supposed to me going next year to do Masters there.

I am certified under www.nlp.ie and they are linked closely to Dr Bandler.

I only teach KM 1 night a week and also for Patrick a little.

I was think esrlier in year about going full time into NLP work and coaching etc. and I will do in a few years.

I am writing a book about sales, with www.michaelbolduc.com who worked for tony robbins. and was his top sales guy.

Actually I am moving to live in thailand in 4 weeks, I have a small recruitment biz...well its just me now ..and with VOIP and email and stuff, you can be located anywhere in world and no one will know.

sick of Dublin, so goiing out there, to live on pennys! lol..make money in ireland and live in thai....a key to financial independene. plus nice weather, and muay thai trainig each morning. I am going to Buri Rami in North East which is quiet...less distractions,,,and time out to reflect!

john kavanagh

good luck with the move Gerry!!:)

Millionaire

Thanks John!

I ll still be on the boards to pester ya all!!!!

I asked Paddy C, would I be fit to fight in Lumpinee Stadium after a few months of intensive thai training....ya should have seen the look I got back! ha ha

hoping to get a wee KM group going in due course out there.

john kavanagh

"I asked Paddy C, would I be fit to fight in Lumpinee Stadium after a few months of intensive thai training....ya should have seen the look I got back! ha ha"

lol! i can imagine:eek:

well keep us up-to-date on how you get on

Musashi

Dayum! Good luck with the move Gerry! Guess some people talk about that kind of stuff and other guys just go do it! Fair play man. Keep in touch though, hope they got Broadband in Thailand, or Tony Jaa will want to know what's up!