Hotel is ripping me off...please help

jimmidy_cricket

I know this probably isn't the right forum but most people are logged on here and I'm hoping to have this sorted by this avo:

I rang a hotel in Kilkenny yesterday to check rates etc. and wanted to mak a provisional booking for tonight and tomorow night and I was informed that provisional bookings aren't taken only confirmed bookings with a credit card number so about an hour later I rang back with all my details including my credit card number.

Then at around 2 o'clock yesterday afternoon I rang them again, this time to cancel the room because as it turned out my boyfriend couldn't go. When I was informed that my card will be charged a cancellation fee. Now when I made the reservation nothing was said to me about a cancellation policy or any fee that would be charged. I understood my card was going against the room to confirm the room you know to secure it, should I not turn up and then thats fair enough for it to be charged but I was cancelling the room an hour after I booked it and 26 hours before check in. The reservations manager told me that if they sell the room (Not likely for a thursday) then my card won't be charged but surley they can't charge me because 1.they never informed me of any impending cancelation fees etc. and 2. because I haven't given them permission.

Where do I stand with this? If they are going to charge the card I'll bloody well go down there and spend the night on my own(Kick up stink) but I don't want to be bullied into staying, its like the're holding my card number for ransom.

Can the visa card people block them from charging my card? If so, how do I go about that?

Someone please show me the light!!

Thanks for your time,
JC

Hagar

It is common to make a cancellation charge.
It should only be a percentage of the cost of the room not the full amount.

This practice is so well known I'm not surprised they didn't mention it.

Prior Of Taize

unless you get them to not charge your card then you cant do much right now.

ring and ask to speak to the manager, or the owner if you have to...
dont give an inch until you hear it from the highest authority that you cant have your money back or not charged or whatever.

jimmidy_cricket

I work in a hotel myself and theres no way in hell we'd attempt charging somebodys card without first informing them of I suppose the "Terms & Conditions" of the reservation. It might be understandable if I booked it ages ago and then forgot about it and rang them up "Whoops I can't go" but it was a frickin hour after I made the booking. And if that happened where I work we'd charge half the room rate, They're attempting to charge the first nights accomodation, thats like 90 quid or something. Arrrrggh:mad: Thanks Hagar

jimmidy_cricket

Prior Of Taize wrote:

unless you get them to not charge your card then you cant do much right now.

ring and ask to speak to the manager, or the owner if you have to...
dont give an inch until you hear it from the highest authority that you cant have your money back or not charged or whatever.

I was thinking of getting someone to ring later and see if the're fully booked (if they are they've sold my room and won't charge me) and if not then ring and speak to the GM, I mean seriously they never told me about their cancellation policy, what am I supposed to enquire about it? Feck sake if this happened in the hotel I work in we'd probably issue a voucher as compensation for the negligent receptionist who never stipulated the terms of the reservation. I'm sooo peeved.

Thanks for your reply though:)

Hagar

Sorry Jimmy, I personally think its a shítty thing to do.
If they are going to charge for the first night and breakfast is included in the price you should at least be able to get that removed.

arac

hotels in Kilkenny have nt got the best of names..there is a deifinite rip off culture there...recently they were accused of running a cartel there!

jimmidy_cricket

Hagar wrote:

Sorry Jimmy, I personally think its a shítty thing to do.
If they are going to charge for the first night and breakfast is included in the price you should at least be able to get that removed.

Sure breakfast is what? 10 quid? Still means they'll be charging me bout 80.00 and they could argue that they don't do a room only rate. I'm just peeved at the way they've dealt with it. I'm nice as pie to my customers and do whatever I can to keep them sweet, I just reckon I should be treated the same. Oh and my names not Jimmy, I'm a girl, the user name is a play on conscience (Don't ask). Thanks again.

jimmidy_cricket

arac wrote:

hotels in Kilkenny have nt got the best of names..there is a deifinite rip off culture there...recently they were accused of running a cartel there!

What like the Mafia? Are they selling rats milk to children? Seriously though I don't mind splashing out for a special occasion and 155p.p for 2 nights b&B with an evening meal was a great deal but my fella can't go. What am I to do? Go any way and celebrate the anniveresary on my own? They are just being really unhelpful and thats whats wrecking my head because as soon as I walk into my job I'm so sickly sweet and yes sir no sir to everyone that I want the same treatment. Its not fair

Dave!

Come on, hug it out...

:cool:

Dellgirl

Ring the hotel and see if you can book a room. If you cant then you wont be charged. I think in alot of places cancellation charges are standard but you should defo have been told about them.

Canis Lupus

Rumour is the hotels in Kilkenny don't have a good name alright. Accusations of price fixing etc.

county

i thought they can only charge you a cancellation fee 24 hours or less to the booking,surely they are a member of something like blue book,hotels of ireland,you should take it up with them and they will get on to the hotel pritty quick and voice your concerns

Zaph0d

Did they act in a fair manner?

First thing to do is to get their cancellation policy either on the web or by getting a friend to call and enquire about a room.

Next get cancellation policies for other hotels. The Westbury, for example, allows cancellations up to 2pm on day of stay. You need to establish what is common practice cancellations policy so that you can determine whether their policy is fair. Call Bord Failte and ask them if they have guidelines for the hotels they rate.

If you gather enough evidence that it's unfair you can sue in the small claims court or you can call you credit card company and ask for a chargeback on the amount for non-delivery of service. If you ask for a chargeback, you risk going to arbitration which will you cost you more if you lose (ask your credit card provider what the procedure is).

These avenues should be last resort. If you get enough evidence that the policy is unfair you should try to calmly negotiate with them for a better outcome indicating that you have the options of chargeback or SCC, which you would hate to have to use. They should agree to a reduced cancellation charge or a voucher for another night. Room upgrades and meals cost them less than they are worth to you so you may want to make a play for these.

Big Nelly

Every hotel in the World will charge a cancellation fee....its common practise.....same as if you are buying something(e.g. car) you will get a deposit...if they dont buy car then you keep deposit!!! nothing strange and nobody is being ripped off here.....it will say it on website or watever that if you cancel you have to pay a fee.....have had to cancel hotels in NY, Amsterdam, Belgium and a few other places(all work related so came out of there pocket) and each one will charge a minimum fee for the cancelled room!!

jimmidy_cricket

Thank you all so much for your speedy replies. I rang them again this morning to find out exactly what they'll be charging and get this.... The great deal I was quoted was €155.00p.p for 2 nights b&B plus an evening meal so they work it out as 155 a night which is what is going to come off my card if they don't sell all rooms (theres 12 free tonight), Bastads!

Big Nelly wrote:

Every hotel in the World will charge a cancellation fee....its common practise.....same as if you are buying something(e.g. car) you will get a deposit...if they dont buy car then you keep deposit!!! nothing strange and nobody is being ripped off here.....it will say it on website or watever that if you cancel you have to pay a fee.....have had to cancel hotels in NY, Amsterdam, Belgium and a few other places(all work related so came out of there pocket) and each one will charge a minimum fee for the cancelled room!!

I totally agree that every hotel generally has a cancelation policy and it probably is on the internet, I didn't book on the internet i booked with the receptionist who never made me aware of any such policy. I've worked in hotels for years and have worked my way up from receptionist to a management role and in all my experience it is paramount that clients/customers be made aware of cancellation fees or non refundable deposits etc, otherwise its understood that they don't apply. In the hotel I work in if its absolutely nessasary to apply a cancelation fee (that the customer would have be made aware of) the its usually half the room rate, they're intending on applying one nights accomodation with no mention upon making the reservation. Pah!

Zaph0d, thanks for the advice, if its a case they don't fill the rooms, I'll hop in the car and make the 2 hour drive and stay the night and I'll be such a c**t for my stay they'll wish they just gave me the money.

<<<***Hugs Dave Mcg***>>>>

jimmidy_cricket

bedlam wrote:

Do they have the terms and conditions up on the web site (assuming they have one)? They should be the same regardless of booking on line or over the phone, at least that way you have a better idea of where you stand and how to proceed

Nope, just had a look there and theres nothing on a cancellation policy. When I was arguing with them (The receptionist and reception Manager) and told them that I wasn't informed about the cancelation fee and notice etc. they told me that had my booking been made in advance all the details would have been outlined either via post or e-mail, so I guess I'm being penalised for making the reservation the day before I wanted to go, and being charged because they know they're not going to fill the last 12 rooms on a thursday night.

If I don't get a chance to get back on the internet (I'm off at 2) I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks again all

MrPudding

I used to work in a hotel my self and that is very poor indeed.

Most hotels do have a cancellation policy but they make it very clear as to what it is. Given that you cancelled more than 24hours in advance I think it is very poor customer service to be charging you.

The main arguement I would use is that you were not informed of their policy. The fact that they normally tell people of their policy by letter or email is irrelevent and TBH a bit stupid. If they have a policy where you are charged even when you give 24hours notice that is something that you should be made aware of *before* you make the booking, not after. I know I would not book a room if I was told that was the policy. But by their own admission they only inform you of the policy after you have made the booking.

Fight them on this, do not give in. Tell them that had you known this was their policy you would not have booked the room in the first place as you did not know for certain that you would be travelling.

If it was me and they did charge me I would be very tempted to call my card company and tell them it was unauthorised.

MrP

masterK

jimmidy_cricket wrote:

When I was arguing with them (The receptionist and reception Manager) and told them that I wasn't informed about the cancelation fee and notice etc. they told me that had my booking been made in advance all the details would have been outlined either via post or e-mail, so I guess I'm being penalised for making the reservation the day before I wanted to go, and being charged because they know they're not going to fill the last 12 rooms on a thursday night.

So they are basically admitting that they never told you about the cancellation policy because you booked at such short notice. I'd give consumer affairs a ring to see how you stand legally. Anyway if you book over the phone the day before they could still easily e-mail you the terms and conditions so in my view you should be entitled to a full refund.

jdf

from my rudamentary understanding of contract law you cannot attach an exclusion clause to a contract after the contract has been entered into ... so if at time of entering into the contract you were not aware of a condition, and the other party did not point out that condition to you they cannot then try to hang you on that condition.

MrPudding

masterK wrote:

Anyway if you book over the phone the day before they could still easily e-mail you the terms and conditions so in my view you should be entitled to a full refund.

It would not matter if they mailed the T&Cs. Once you have made the booking you are, arrording to them, bound by the T&Cs therefore you still could not cancel without incurring the charge.

Do not accept the charge.

MrP

Sponge Bob

Kilkenny hotels have a really really really sh1t reputation for overcharging and shystering and have had for years that I can recall . Its been years since I spent a night there but it was full of skanger hen parties when I did last go .

next time go to Killarney , after Galway I found Killarney to be really really good value for money and found the service top notch too. .

BrianD

Ask the hotel for their cancellation policy (it may be online). They should have verbally informed you of the policy when booking. It is extremely bad form to take a fee when you cancelled so far in advance. It is irrelevant if they can or can't sell the room. They can get walk ups at any time.

I would definitely write to Bord Failte and detail the issue. You could also do us a favour by naming the hotel here as well.

homeOwner

I'm late coming to this conversation, but if this still is not resolved could you cancel your credit card with the bank? chances are they wont run the charge through until later today??

RainyDay

I'd definitely look for a written copy of their cancellation policy. Most policies would require 24 hours notice, though I see online that the Kilkenny Ormonde state 'CANCELLATION POLICY: 48 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL THERE WILL BE NO CHARGE AFTER THIS YOUR CREDIT CARD WILL BE CHARGED AT YOUR FIRST NIGHTS ACCOMMODATION PRICE'.

You could try disputing the transaction with your credit card company. Depending on who you get to speak to there & how well you make your case, they may reject the transaction or ask the hotel to show proof of authorisation.

BrianD

That is very poor. Must hotels allow cancellation up to a certain time on the day of the arrival. 48 hours is very mean spirited and not in line with international norms. I would definitely drop the Irish tourist board a line.

englander

We booked our wedding with the Newpark Hotel KK 8 months in advance and had to put a 1500 deposit down.

We had checked out the wedding room and all looked ok and had a big discussion and decided to pay the deposit.

It was 9 days later we were informed by the hotel that because our wedding was small (ie slightly less than 200 people!!) they had hired the next door room out to another wedding party. Well my missus wasn't happy with that (for various reasons) so we decided to cancel.

They said they were not going to give any of our deposit back as it was a non-refundable deposit. They couldn't justify this and said that they didn't need to as it was just policy. One manager said it would cover administration of cancelling and reselling the room.

Many many letters later and personal visits to the hotel and trips to Citizen advisory services... as a good will the hotel gave us 700 back and kept 800 !!!

Citizens Advice said they were perfectly within their rights to keep all the deposit and we were lucky to get anything back at all !

How the hell can they get away with that, they still had around 8 months to sell the room again.

B'stards is right.

I used to go to Newpark a lot for sunday lunch and drinks but NO MORE ! When I have denied them over 800 euros worth of custom I may venture back..

Hope you have better luck with your situation jimmidy_cricket

JimmySmith

englander wrote:

We booked our wedding with the Newpark Hotel KK 8 months in advance and had to put a 1500 deposit down.

We had checked out the wedding room and all looked ok and had a big discussion and decided to pay the deposit.

It was 9 days later we were informed by the hotel that because our wedding was small (ie slightly less than 200 people!!) they had hired the next door room out to another wedding party. Well my missus wasn't happy with that (for various reasons) so we decided to cancel.

They said they were not going to give any of our deposit back as it was a non-refundable deposit. They couldn't justify this and said that they didn't need to as it was just policy. One manager said it would cover administration of cancelling and reselling the room.

Many many letters later and personal visits to the hotel and trips to Citizen advisory services... as a good will the hotel gave us 700 back and kept 800 !!!

Citizens Advice said they were perfectly within their rights to keep all the deposit and we were lucky to get anything back at all !

How the hell can they get away with that, they still had around 8 months to sell the room again.

B'stards is right.

I used to go to Newpark a lot for sunday lunch and drinks but NO MORE ! When I have denied them over 800 euros worth of custom I may venture back..

Hope you have better luck with your situation jimmidy_cricket

hope you made sure they didnt sell the room ahterwards. if they did surely they had no right to keep your money

gerrycollins

it doesnt matter how late or early you book ask them for confirmation of the booking time etc then of your cancelation time etc all on paper (no email) to be posted to you then ask them to forward their T&C and compare notes. Sadly some if not most hotels charge fees but only late cancellations and they only incur the booking fee or a percentage of the room charge not the fecking whole room charge.

When all is done contact your credit card ppl and inform them of ur situation and forward all revelant paper info to them(as collected above) ie to prove you cancelled in time or under the time limit and they will block the payment sadly this can take up to 30 days after the payment has been taken but ONLY IF the hotels T&C contradict everything they have done to you,you in the clear and money back and them your credit card ppl will take it from there leaving you out of the equation.

if you have no joy there get in contact with office of consumer affairs as matters over the phone have to be communicated fully for them to be valid.

PS u didnt sigh any credit card slip
pps matters over the ohone are not legally binding so act dumb

RainyDay

englander wrote:

It was 9 days later we were informed by the hotel that because our wedding was small (ie slightly less than 200 people!!) they had hired the next door room out to another wedding party. Well my missus wasn't happy with that (for various reasons) so we decided to cancel.

They said they were not going to give any of our deposit back as it was a non-refundable deposit. They couldn't justify this and said that they didn't need to as it was just policy. One manager said it would cover administration of cancelling and reselling the room.

I don't see what they did wrong. Unless you make keeping the next door room vacant a condition of your booking, they were obviously entitled to rent it out. Deposits are generally non-refundable. It never ceases to amaze me that people get so surprised & uppity when deposits are not refunded. It would kind-of defeat the purpose of a deposit if they were to be refunded willy-nilly.

jimmidy_cricket

It was the River Court hotel and I contacted a radio talk show to air my grievances and to my surprise the producer rang me within an hour and said she was very interested in having me on air to discuss the situation and to name and shame them (Not for the first time). Then at about 2.30pm I got a phone call from the Reception Manager telling me all the rooms were sold and they would not be charging my card. It transpired that someone from the radio team had rang the hotel to confirm their cancelation policy. So I suppose they figured it was easier to just tell me they wouldn't charge my card and I'd stay quiet.

The show ran over so my topic wasn't discussed but the producer still wants to do a piece on it at a later date. Any how I got my boyfriend to ring them Thursday night to check availability and rates, yes there was availability €65.00p.p. (€25.00p.p cheaper than the 155 they were going to charge me) and what about the €45.00p.p weekday special as advertised on the internet?...Oh well all those rooms were gone. So I rang them to challenge them on false advertising and first I asked for availability, yes and rates ...€75.00p.p (€10.00 more than what they quoted my boyfriend but still €2.50 p.p cheaper than the €155) So I would have been screwed from all angles if it hadn't been for the radio show intending to highlight it.

I hope the show still goes ahead as who knows how many other people they are doing this to or will continue to do it to.

Thanks everyone for you replies (Sorry I posted in after hours and not Consumer Issues) and englander if the terms and conditions weren't outlined to you then your entitled to your money back. In our hotel a guest has to sign the terms and conditions of there wedding/function, if they don't and their wedding/function is cancelled we have to give they their money back, all of it.

dudara

Well done for sticking with this topic. It's great to read

deisemum

I have always found contacting the local radio station very good for highlighting (name and shame) unfair practices. They hadn't informed you of the cancellation policy so it's their loss. I live in Waterford (but not from Waterford) but even here people are aware of the poor reputations that Kilkenny, also the pubs there have come under the spotlight with the consumer body.
I read on another website how someone got poor service and the consumer posted it on that website, several other people contacted the said hotel concerned about the way customers were allegedly treated. At least that action made the hotel aware that it was getting very bad publicity. Maybe that's another way to go.

jimmidy_cricket

I have to say, the staff weren't horrible, Y'know how some hotel staff can be really snooty and make you feel like a piece of crap for complaining or what not but in fairness any staff that I talked to (2 receptionists and a reception manager) were nice, I wouldn't say they were helpful but they could have dealt with me in a really nasty way and they didn't, it didn't take away from the fact that they were doing their best to wangle me out of €155.00, and they were all over the place with what their rates are quoting me originally €155.00 (€77.50p.p) then my boyfriend €65.00, then me again €75.00 and advertising on the internet at €45.00, thats a bit crappy.

Forgot to mention; the radio producer told me that The River Court and many oher hotels are guily of price fixing and gave me an example of a show she did...It was around the time of the meat loaf concert and apparently you couldn't book a room with them for 1 night only (The concert was on friday night) but they only offered a weekend package Fri&Sat night and screw ye if you don't need/want the 2 nights. Thought that was crazy.

Anyhoo, if the my topic is going to go ahead on the radio I'll let ye know how I get on.

Nightwish

the hotel/pub industry here in Kilkenny is a joke. They are so sure of their business they charge what they like. The town has become a Temple Bar of sorts at the weekend, which doesnt help, because if those skangery hen-parties stopped coming down here every weekend the hotels wouldnt have their business and they would actualy have to fight for custom. Personally I wouldnt stay in any of the hotels here in town. I dont even want to get married in this town because I know what a rip-off the hotels are here. How the Ormonde can justify their prices at weekends, I just dont know, as there is a VERY loud nightclub in it, and anyone staying there wouldnt get any sleep til after 4am.

Sponge Bob

jimmidy_cricket wrote:

The River Court and many oher hotels are guily of price fixing and gave me an example of a show she did...It was around the time of the meat loaf concert and apparently you couldn't book a room with them for 1 night only (The concert was on friday night) but they only offered a weekend package Fri&Sat night and screw ye if you don't need/want the 2 nights.

Kilkenny Hotels are famous for charging for 2 nights minimum.

dingding

Post a review on

www.tripadvisor.com

rondjon

I've read through the original comment here, and some of the replies.

The key issue here is that the contract was entered into over the phone. This is the contract, and any terms and conditions mentioned at the time of entering into the contract are the only ones that matter.

They cannot tell you about the t's & c's afterwards, or in an e-mail, or refer you to the website.

And just because every hotel in the world has a cancellation charge, doesn't mean that you are subject to one here. Just because you know that the hotel may have a cancellation charge doesn't mean that it automatically applies. You have to be explicitly told that a cancellation charge is a condition of the contract - you need to know this because otherwise you're not in possession of full information regarding the contract.

If the hotel didn't mention a cancellation policy (on their website or not), or didn't mention that the contract was subject to their terms and conditions that were on the website, then the hotel is not legally able to apply a cancellation charge for the booking.

They simply cannot do it. They have no wiggle room here. They didn't tell you about it, or indicate that the policy may exist, so therefore it is not part of the contract you entered into over the phone.

I had this before with a company who sell hotel rooms over the web normally. I called over the phone, made booking which I subsequently cancelled. They tried to apply the cancellation charge thing, but since they hadn't mentioned it over the phone, even though I knew it existed for web bookings, they couldn't charge me. And they didn't.

westtip

Make as much noise as you can. I suggest you draft a letter about the incident and send a copy to them advising you are going to write to the Kilkenny local paper, the national press, the local TDs in Kilkenny, your own TD s, The kilkenny chamber of commerce, An bord Failte (or whaterver they call themselves now), contact your credit card company and tell them you in dispute over the charge and ask them to withhold payment, unless it is too late, and the best advice of all lift the phone and talk to Joe Duffy, he appears to be the only person who stands up for the common man in this country. Get on Joe Duffy, tell them the name of the hotel, make the few euro they have stolen off you the worst piece of PR they could hope for.
Westtip

BrianD

westtip wrote:

Make as much noise as you can. I suggest you draft a letter about the incident and send a copy to them advising you are going to write to the Kilkenny local paper, the national press, the local TDs in Kilkenny, your own TD s, The kilkenny chamber of commerce, An bord Failte (or whaterver they call themselves now), contact your credit card company and tell them you in dispute over the charge and ask them to withhold payment, unless it is too late, and the best advice of all lift the phone and talk to Joe Duffy, he appears to be the only person who stands up for the common man in this country. Get on Joe Duffy, tell them the name of the hotel, make the few euro they have stolen off you the worst piece of PR they could hope for.
Westtip

Classic example of how not to complain and waste time!

Write to the hotel detailing the circumstances of the booking and that you were not advised of any cancellation policy especially one as punitive as a 48 hour cancellation rule. State that it is not the norm by national or international standards. Tell them that you expect better from a 4-star hotel and that on principal you will take the matter further with Bord Failte. This is your opening shot. From there you can escalate to the Joe Duffy show if you like.

westtip

BrianD wrote:

Classic example of how not to complain and waste time!

Write to the hotel detailing the circumstances of the booking and that you were not advised of any cancellation policy especially one as punitive as a 48 hour cancellation rule. State that it is not the norm by national or international standards. Tell them that you expect better from a 4-star hotel and that on principal you will take the matter further with Bord Failte. This is your opening shot. From there you can escalate to the Joe Duffy show if you like.

Fair enough but it sounds like this crowd aren't going to respond to polite requests for the money back (if they do then fair enough) so why not cause them a bit of grief. The hotel is trying to bully this customer, bully's need to be taught a lesson.:mad: - hey BrianD I have just scrolled through the thread - apparently the young lady got her money back after threatening to go on local radio, your more concilatory may well have worked, I am glad she named the hotel, another one to avoid, also glad she got her money back, well done.

jimmidy_cricket

Thanks everyone for your sugestions. Incidentally, the radio show I mentioned earlier was infact the Joe Duffy Show and the Liveline producer (very nice and helpful lady) rang me within the hour of me sending an e-mail to the show.

One of their team rang the River Court I guess to confirm that I wasn't taking the mick or what have you and I reckon if it wasn't for that then the bastids would have applied the cancelation fee (The cancelation fee they told me nothing about upon making the booking) of €155.00 ,the first nights accomodation, although the internet was advertising €90.00 for that Thursday night and my boyfriend was quoted €130.00 for that night and when I went into them they quoted me €150.00. I ended up staying in the Hibernian hotel at 50.00p.p. b&b and it was lovely and they had complimentary access to The leisure facilities in get this..The River Court Hotel...ha so I stayed down the road but still got to pee in their pool (I didn't really do that!)

Maybe I should write a letter, then again whats the point but then again they'll continue to do this until something is done leaving countless numbers of customers out of pocket.

Hmmm if anyone would like to write a letter outlining the grievances I'll sign it and send it on but I wouldn't be the best at writing letters of complaint and if they give a voucher as compensation I'll half it with ye

TempestSabre

Thanks for posting the full story. Especially the conculsion. Very poor customer service, and it proves that if you complain enough, and in the right way, often you can get a result. The irony is that if the Hotel done it properly, they'd have gained goodwill from a potential customer, and those that heard the story. Now they've made no money, and possible lost a few customers.