BBC releases timetable for HD trial broadcasts

DMC

Relavent to us in Ireland on DSat only.

BBC to trial High Definition broadcasts in 2006

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/11_november/08/hdtv.shtml

The BBC will trial broadcasts of high definition television in 2006, it announced today.

In the limited technical trials, it is planned to simulcast highlights of BBC ONE's peaktime schedule in high definition on satellite and cable, as available, from mid-2006.

The BBC is in talks with the relevant operators about these plans.

The BBC is also seeking to run a technical terrestrial trial in the London area at the same time. This would not affect reception of existing Freeview channels.

The BBC is considering collaboration with other broadcasters on the terrestrial trial. The purpose of the trials is to test delivery and reception of high definition broadcasts on the major television platforms.

Director of Television, Jana Bennett, will set out the BBC's vision for future free-to-air high definition television when she takes part in an industry event in London tonight.

She said: "From colour and widescreen to digital radio and television, the BBC has always been at the forefront of innovations in broadcasting. Our promise to our licence payers is to give them the highest quality television, so the time is right for the BBC to get involved in high definition.

"High definition may take time to grow in Britain, but as with the other technologies we helped to build, the BBC wants to prepare now to be able to deliver the benefits of HD to all its licence payers in the long term."

Jana has appointed Seetha Kumar as Head of HDTV for the BBC, to run and manage the trial.

The BBC trial will start on each platform once they become technically viable, and it is expected that these trials will last for about a year. There will be no impact on any current standard service.

Notes to Editors

High definition (HD or HDTV) is a different standard of digital television broadcast which offers sharper, more detailed pictures.

It requires an entirely separate broadcast stream from current standard definition (SD) broadcasting.

Only viewers with an "HD Ready" television set, a special HD set top box receiver and reception of a high definition service will experience true HD programming.

High definition programmes must also be specially shot. Some BBC programmes, such as Rome and Bleak House, are already made in high definition and the BBC has a target to move all production to high definition by 2010.

The BBC HD trial will enable the BBC to test the end-to-end HD production and distribution chain, from capture and post, to playout and coding, to transmission, reception and viewer experience.

Sky has announced plans to launch a commercial HD service to subscribers next year and cable companies are also forming plans.

For the terrestrial trial, the BBC will apply to Ofcom for temporary use of an unused frequency currently not allocated to broadcasters and unsuitable for conventional broadcast use.

It is hoped it will be possible to provide a limited number of HD set top box receivers to triallists.

However, it is unlikely that HD receivers will be available commercially until a long-term future is secured for high definition terrestrial broadcasting.

Capacity for high definition broadcasts on terrestrial television (Freeview) will be very limited until digital switchover - between 2008 and 2012.

Switchover will free some extra spectrum as analogue services are switched off. Ofcom is to decide how this freed spectrum is to be used.

The BBC would like to see some frequencies made available to broadcasters for high definition broadcasting and is working with other broadcasters, Ofcom and the Government to explore this possibility.

HD downloads are part of the BBC's iMP (integrated media player) trial and should soon be available to selected cable subscribers.

Current broadband infrastructure does not enable live HDTV to be offered.

Seetha Kumar was responsible for the ambitious and successful cross-channel, cross-genre and cross-platform seasons, Africa Lives on the BBC and Hitting Home. She also commissioned Body Hits, Make Me Honest, Diet Trials and Your Life in Their Hands.

ro2

A BBC spokeswoman said there was a possibility that next year's football World Cup would be broadcast in high definition format as part of its trials.

"It would be a great opportunity to test high-definition broadcasting from a live event," said a BBC spokeswoman.

"We hope the World Cup would be a part of the trial but that has still to be confirmed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4417202.stm

watty

Note ONLY buy a 1080i or higher HDTV. Most so called HDTV in shops are a waste of money as they do highest resolution of 720p (USA /Japan market).

1080i would be down converted and aliased to 720p generating artifacts.

European HDTV starts at 1080 lines. (p) or (i) is not an issue with HDTV.

Most users need at least 48" for a normal size room. A 28" or 32" is a waste on money unless you sit about 3' or less away from set as otherwise you won't see the detail.

ixtlan

Hi Watty,

I think you know a lot more about this than me, but I think you are perhaps being a tad too dogmatic on those points!

Personally I will only get a 1080 line capable HDTV, because like you I want the best. I bought a 32" CRT widescreen this year to tide me over until 2007 maybe! However there are very very few 1080 capable TVs available at the moment. On www.komplett.ie there's just one, a 37" Benq which doesn't have any scart sockets. So if somebody wants a flat screen TV now... well they could wait a year or so for sets to go to 1080, or they can get a 720p capable TV. I agree it's not going to be ideal, but for most people it will display an excellent HD picture. The details of the Sky HD are still a little unclear. I believe some of the broadcasts will be 720p, so I'm sure there will be people complaining about 720-1080 upscaling too!

So I understand where you are coming from, but I would not call the existing sets a waste of money. If people don't keep buying them then the prices won't keep dropping for my future TV!

As regards size, certainly 32" is a little small (way too small for me)... but remember it's the equiv of a 34" CRT. A lot of people won't feel comfortable with a bigger size. I'd think that a 37" would be good size in a regular room, and would give good HD benefits. I'm thinking of a 37 or maybe a 40... I don't think even I could cope with a 48" monster! Besides 37 and 40 will be getting very cheap, above that will be much more expensive for a long time.

Ix

Foggy43

Don't get too carried away with Digital TV.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4417432.stm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16348048&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=set-top-shocks--name_page.html

I personally know families who just will not be able to afford the changeover. To make matters worse the BBC want the TV licence increased to £200 per annum. I wouldn't be one bit surprised it getting the ok as Gordon Brown wants to tax the dead :eek:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/retirement/article.html?in_article_id=404860&in_page_id=6

Sparky

yeah the bbc were doing a few tests in august, i recorded a few bits but jesus 6gb was easily run up
It was mostly a promo of how the bbc operates and how they will implement HD.

DMC

Molly Dawson wrote:

<snip>

That has nothing to do with what we are discussing....

Foggy43

OK! You are discussing the BBC tests. Just making a point on who is paying for this!

Just how is the ordinary Joe Bloggs going to be afffected when the BBC, if they fully implement this in 2012. Am I safe in saying you will just miss out on superior quality pictures if I do not have a 1080 line HDTV.

Mossy Monk

Molly Dawson wrote:

OK! You are discussing the BBC tests. Just making a point on who is paying for this!

huh

Sparky

did a post get deleted?

Mossy Monk

not that i can see

DMC

Molly Dawson wrote:

OK! You are discussing the BBC tests. Just making a point on who is paying for this!

Just how is the ordinary Joe Bloggs going to be afffected when the BBC, if they fully implement this in 2012. Am I safe in saying you will just miss out on superior quality pictures if I do not have a 1080 line HDTV.

Point.

---

> Target..

The links you provided were for normal Digital terrestrial. Not a mention in either arcticle to HDTV, which is a completely seperate technical development and what that is what this thread is about. And I said right at the top of this thread, this only affects Irish people with Satellite.

Keep it on topic please.

(no posts were edited or deleted)

Foggy43

DMC!

I appologise! I missed the opening line. 'Relavent to us in Ireland on DSat only'.

I promise to read threads more carefully in future!

watty

ixtlan wrote:

Hi Watty,

I think you know a lot more about this than me, but I think you are perhaps being a tad too dogmatic on those points!

Personally I will only get a 1080 line capable HDTV, because like you I want the best. I bought a 32" CRT widescreen this year to tide me over until 2007 maybe! However there are very very few 1080 capable TVs available at the moment. On www.komplett.ie there's just one, a 37" Benq which doesn't have any scart sockets. So if somebody wants a flat screen TV now... well they could wait a year or so for sets to go to 1080, or they can get a 720p capable TV. I agree it's not going to be ideal, but for most people it will display an excellent HD picture. The details of the Sky HD are still a little unclear. I believe some of the broadcasts will be 720p, so I'm sure there will be people complaining about 720-1080 upscaling too!

So I understand where you are coming from, but I would not call the existing sets a waste of money. If people don't keep buying them then the prices won't keep dropping for my future TV!

As regards size, certainly 32" is a little small (way too small for me)... but remember it's the equiv of a 34" CRT. A lot of people won't feel comfortable with a bigger size. I'd think that a 37" would be good size in a regular room, and would give good HD benefits. I'm thinking of a 37 or maybe a 40... I don't think even I could cope with a 48" monster! Besides 37 and 40 will be getting very cheap, above that will be much more expensive for a long time.

Ix

No I'm not really dogmatic. At over 1400 Euro they are a waste of money. 1080 is the Euro standard because frankly 720, while an good improvement on US/Japan 480 line is not such a great improvement on 576 lines (Euro land).

The (p) mode even on 480 line NTSC solves the 60Hz pull down artifacts when transferring from 24fps cine. 50Hz or 100Hz (i = interlace) has no such problem. Also material shot in 60Hz or 50Hz HD does not need (p= progressive) mode.

Even for regular TV, the artifacts due to re-scalling different DVB resolutions (about 4 or 6 main settings) to the FIXED resolution of LCD / Plasma means picture is seriously inferior to CRT. For this reason a "high Resolution" LCD or LCD/DLP projector (XVGA, UXGA, WUGA etc) or an "HD ready" wins over fixed DVD resolution (720 x 576) LCD. Some 48" Plasma or only even 480 line (yuch!).

They should NOT be allowed toi say "HD ready" for screens that do less than 1080 lines as this is the European ENTRY LEVEL HD resolution (there are higher levels). The Artifacts will be really noticable unless the screen is small, in which case you don't need HDTV!

Many LCD TVs can't show a 4:3 image without artifacts as they don't have enough resolution, though even a 720p so called HD ready will work fine.

Conclusions:
The majority of current so called "HD ready" are not. They are screens designed for US/Japan market. They do give better regular 16:9 and 4:3 images than the fixed DVD resolution only Plasma/LCD.

At present the ONLY sensible value on large screens and/or HD is DLP or LCD projectors. The manufacturers are off loading poor "junk" on the regular Plasma/LCD market. A 32" WS LCD is inferor to a 300 Euro 4:3 CRT Sony/Mitsubishsi/Phillips that does true widesscreen. Yet costs up to 4 times more.

Wait till the manufacturers release TRUE European compatible screened models.

Also Plasma has about 1/5th the life of CRT and LCD has poor rendition of pastel shades.

If you MUST have big or HD now, get a decent projector. Boycott the TVs that "wear the emperor's new clothes".

It is very unclear what Sky is doing. But it will need a new Sky box and an HDMI interfaced HD TV.

HDTV does not use component or SCART. Adaptors for composite, RGB SCART, componet and VGA are available for the HD TV interfaces.

The pioneers are the ones that get the arrow in the back. I'd wait till BBC and SKY have done tests and we all know what is really happening.

AFAIK ALL of the FTA (nearly 20) and Pay TV HDTV that can be picked up in Ireland today by satellite (mostly German) are EURO1080i format.

My 933MHz PC and Skystar1 type card works badly (1600 x 1200 screen) for HDTV.

HDTV today:
A Skystar 2 (80Euro) and 1.8GHz Pentium or better will work. WUXGA projector or better recommended or else sit 6" away from PC screen!

lawhec

HDTV? Pfff! It's already obselete!

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=173402762
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=8067
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Video

Let's just drop this minor improvement which HDTV can bring to PAL viewers and instead look at the future of 4000 plus lines!:eek:

ro2

watty wrote:

If you MUST have big or HD now, get a decent projector. Boycott the TVs that "wear the emperor's new clothes".

There aren't many projectors that'll do more than 1280*720 for under €2k.

watty

ro2 wrote:

There aren't many projectors that'll do more than 1280*720 for under €2k.

There are some, but no 48" TVs under 2K that do more than 720 line, or indeed are there ANY 48" TVs under 2K?

48" for most people is the minimum worthwhile HDTV size, otherwise 576 lines is fine.