AK v. All in (Odds question I suppose)

Scotty #

I see a hugh amount of people calling all ins with AK off/suited, even if it puts them all in themselves. Just wondering your opinion on this?

DeVore

against A6 its great, against AA its terrible. Poker is a relativistic game, rather then a static one. Kings is a brilliant hand, against everything but Aces, where its a huge dog

AKs versus AKo should be about 51 vs 49% off the top of my head.

DeV.

DeVore

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=18625
pokenum  -h ac kc  - ah kd 
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards     win  %win    lose  %lose      tie   %tie     EV
Ac Kc  122556  7.16   37210   2.17  1552538  90.67  0.525
Kd Ah   37210  2.17  122556   7.16  1552538  90.67  0.475

Its a little worse then I thought for AKo, 47.5% vs 52.5% (still, not a bad guess!)

DeV.

DeVore

OI! Did you just change the title of this post (thus making me look like I can't read ).

AKo, I'll generally feel good going all in with as the folding equity will repay the times when I find AA, KK. Obviously not after a lot of raising and reraising. Also, I have commonly thrown away AKo if I am faced by a lot of action but I could still go over the top. Those situations I dont like so much

Short handed its power increases greatly (obviously enough).

DeV.

Ste05

Basically I don't mind going all-in with this hand, there's only 2 hands where you're in trouble - AA and KK, and anyother hand you are at least 50:50, there's a small chance you have their AQ dominated.....

Having said that though, alot of the decision is based on who is raising you, if it's the maniac who is trying to buy every pot then don't rip the cloth with the chips on their way in, whereas if it's a rock's first raise in 243 hands, you should probably think of folding...

DeVore

Another thing to think about is that in Multiway pots AK loses a good bit of value. Against the sorts of hands that get involved in big bet preflop pots it doesnt play well.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1325809
pokenum  -h ac kc  - 7h 7c  - jd js  - ah ks 
Holdem Hi: 1086008 enumerated boards
cards     win   %win    lose  %lose     tie   %tie     EV
Ac Kc   62459   5.75  751559  69.20  271990  25.04  0.182
7c 7h  202817  18.68  880798  81.10    2393   0.22  0.187
Js Jd  528546  48.67  555069  51.11    2393   0.22  0.487
Ks Ah   20196   1.86  793822  73.10  271990  25.04  0.143

Now before you say "aw but you have it killed with another AK in there.. " my answer to you would be "because thats unlikely???"

DeV.

Scotty #

Ste05 wrote:

Basically I don't mind going all-in with this hand, there's only 2 hands where you're in trouble - AA and KK, and anyother hand you are at least 50:50...

QQ,JJ,10's,9's.....your in trouble against any pair. You have to catch 1 of 6 cards left (or fill a straight/flush) your opponant dosn't have to catch any. 55%/45% if your not suited slightly better if you are. There ok odds with a small pot.....but my original question was AK v. ALL IN. Are you going to bet 50% or more of your pot on a 45% chance(and thats if they don't have AA/KK)

Me thinks not.....but I still see it in every game??

Rnger

Why not put your money on red instead

Ste05

I've said this alot of times before and I'll say it again now. In general if someone just went ahead and pushed all-in you won't call, that's far too risky, you will engineer the pot so that it is offering you alot better than 1:1 when the actually money goes in. There will generally be some dead money in there on top of the increased pot odds that is possible to engineer...


And Scotty against QQ and any pair it's about 50:50, as I mentioned above, the pot will always be giving you better odds than that and that's why it's different to just putting it on Red......