Startup taking several minutes

Zaphod B

Help!

Sorry, but this one's really confusing me. I've just had a new comp built, with a Athlon 64 3200 on a Gigabyte nForce 3-based mobo, with 512mb RAM (gfx card is Radeon 9800Pro and sound is onboard and supposedly 7.1 but I doubt either are relevant). The HD is 120 gigs and is basically empty apart from Windows, drivers, firewall and Half-Life 2.

The problem is that the computer starts up, then as Windows log-in begins it stops for ages. I get the Windows background (i.e. just plain blue since I've not chosen a background or wallpaper yet) and the cursor, but none of the icons (My Computer, Recycle Bin etc) appear. It just stops. The last time it happened, it paused for almost 5 minutes. By pause I don't mean crash - I can Ctrl-Alt-Del and immediately be presented with the Task Manager, and close down processes - but nevertheless nothing further happens until whenever it finally decides to load up the icons and taskbar etc. Even after doing that, it will wait another minute or so (during which time I can, as before, use the Task Manager without any slowdown at all) before allowing me to run programs or apps.

This is really quite frustrating, especially because I'm pretty sure I don't have enough on there for any processes to be slowing it down. Any ideas?

Thanks, Z

SantaHoe

I experienced something similar to this before on my current PC... turned out I had enabled the harddisk SMART feature in the BIOS which my harddrive didn't like one bit... even though it reportedly has support for SMART, and the harddrive previous to this had no such problems.
It's certainly worth adding to the list of 101 random settings to toggle.

It seems to me that the OS is waiting for something, it's just a matter of finding out what that is, and kicking it up the arse.

Zaphod B

Thanks for the suggestions. Do I find out if SMART is enabled through the BIOS setup or does it have to be done some other way? Does having SMART enabled offer any benefits that I'd notice?

If it helps identify the problem, I'm also having serious slowdown in games - I'm sure it's not graphical (sometimes it will run the nicer effects on HL2 at full detail at high fps) - instead the visual and audio both "stutter"; I think choppy is the best word to describe it, and it's accompanied by the usual horrible rattling presumably from the HD. According to Task Manager it's not bothering my CPU % too much though. Not knowing the first thing about hardware, my first thought would be that I don't have enough RAM - but I have 512mb, the same as I had on my previous machine which had a slower CPU and a full HD that was never defragged and that one never had these problems

Zaphod B

Sorry to reply to my own last post but the problem is getting worse, or evolving, or something that doesn't make sense to me... Now I'm really confused...

I went through MSconfig and removed any reference to ATI's Control Centre since I wasn't using it anyway, and that stopped the main problem of starting up as described above... but now, instead of taking several minutes for anything to appear, it loads up all the icons (My Computer, My Documents, etc etc - all desktop icons) and the taskbar, and I can double click on apps etc - but then nothing happens. Example, I can double-click on my internet connection shortcut and on recycle bin, and nothing will happen (altho the HDD doesn't seem to be doing too much) for a couple of minutes before suddenly the recycle bin pops up and the modem starts connecting. During this pause I go into Task Manager and try to close down as many processes as possible, but even with only the standard Windows processes running it still refuses to do anything. Help!

And just to make my day even better, my HD - which last nite (first time using the comp) seemed to be going rather slow when playing HL2 - is now running even slower, about the speed of your average earthworm, and sounds like it's dying a slow and painful death... and this started happening SINCE DEFRAGGING!!!! ARGH!

Khannie

Man, that's a weird one allright. You might not get any helpful replies until the Monday gang are about, but my (unlikely) suggestion is to try turning on DMA for the drive (if it's not on already).

To do this, go to control panel, system, hardware tab, device manager, ide - ata / atapi controllers. Right click, select properties. Should be in there.

Oh, and check your startup folder. There's also a tool for telling you what's being run at startup...search this forum for best free software (or something like that).

edit:
Also run a thorough scandisk on the drive. It could be banjaxed.

SantaHoe

Yep, you'll have to check your BIOS settings to see weather SMART is enabled.
Usually accessed by pressing delete or F1 while your PC is POSTing (just after you turn it on, but before windows even starts to load)
Your other posts here make this sound even more familiar to the problem I was having.
I was having these horribly unresponsive startups aswell... most notably when I'd open an explorer window to look around my drives, it'd just sit there not expanding the contents at all... until eventually they crawled onto the screen... and like your problem; the cpu usage would be about the same as it would be at idle.

Khannies DMA idea is also worth looking at I think... although when your drive isn't in DMA mode, then PIO will take over drive I/O which is hugely processor intensive and tends to slow everything down to a crawl... but I'd expect this to show up in the performance page... there again it's been so long since I've been unfortunate enough to encounter PIO mode that I can't remember wheather it does show up or not.

start>>run>>msconfig can be used to check your startup items if you're running 98 or XP... if you're on windows 2000, you'll have to locate a utility or use regedit.exe to check the appropriate registry keys.
Before you do this, it'd be worth checking out safe mode (F8 while windows is starting to load)... no startup items will be loaded this way.

MrVestek

Hrm, i'm presuming that if you're using Windows 2000 or XP DMA will be automatically selected for each hard drive, if it's supported (which it is on most, if not all newer hard drives). I have an nforce 2 chipset on my motherboard and i'm presuming the bios would be pretty much the same, so you can get into it by pressing DEL. Im not sure, exactly, where in the bios the option to turn S.M.A.R.T for hard discs is. Hang on i'll just reboot and edit with apt information... Gimme a sec...

*edit*

Ok I've spent the last 10 minutes looking through the bios and for the life of me i can't find the S.M.A.R.T options... sorry i'll have a look on the web.

SantaHoe

Achilles wrote:

*edit*

Ok I've spent the last 10 minutes looking through the bios and for the life of me i can't find the S.M.A.R.T options... sorry i'll have a look on the web.

Well in an Award BIOS it'll be in Advanced Bios Features, but I have to scroll down off the page for it to show up, if you know what I mean. (Pgup/pgdn to toggle)

Canis Lupus

oh here when u installed the drivers for yur mobo being nforce 3 half way through did u get an option to install (can't think of wording exactly) bt something like nvidia software ide something or other... LOL sorry but can't think of exact message but apparently selecting yes can on some pc's can cause havoc... again I'm not even sure what problems it can cause there but I do remember reading somewhere about serious problems with that.

Basically try reinstalling yur chipset drivers and when half way through the installation the option to install nvidias software ide thingy should pop up and select no. Then finish installation and reboot and I hope that solves the prob

Zaphod B

Weirdness. No option during installation - it offered me the drivers & software with the tick boxed greyed in (so i couldn't choose anything), and on clicking "OK" (or "Go" I think it was), it immediately told me the drivers were installed and I needed to reboot - surely it would take a second or two at least?

Anyway I restarted my computer, and it took to stopping for a couple of minutes on the "Welcome" screen again, before coming up with the normal background again and then letting me browse through folders but, once again, not actually run any applications. What's more, when apps finally started working, I had about 50 instances of the Volume Control running. This had happened before but I put it down to error on my part. That's obviously not the case - I'd know if I was opening any app that many times.

So I restarted, this time not to multiple Volume Controls but to a DCOM shutdown - so I tried to download the Microsoft fix for DCOM exploits, only to be told I already had it. Various Sasser worm detectors found nothing. Anyway since then I haven't had the DCOM shutdown, but still have the problems starting up.... what.... the... freaking... helll!?!?!?

Mutant_Fruit

Sounds like a virus could be doing something. Since the computer is so new, the odds are you have nothing important on it.

Download the latest drivers for your graphics card, motherboard, audio, etc etc AND A PROPER FIREWALL APPLICATION!. Then disconnect your internet connection.

then format the ***** and reinstall windows. Install your drivers as soon as you get into windows, then reboot and install the firewall app (i recommend Kerio Personal Firewall) and only then should you reconnect the internet.

That will rule out any software problem. If you still have the problem, then its something hardware related, and we can start working on that then. But it sounds like some software borked up your computer.

Saruman

Check event viewer and look for something in red. Then either fix it or take the event ID number and stick it into www.eventid.net

One suggestion is i had a similar prob with win2k. booting up took between 5 and 10 mins.. once up system was perfect... Fixed it by checking event viewer, said DNS server was broken.. im not a server and DNS is not needed so i dissabled the service and all was well with the world!!

Oh considering your update post though.. while i would still check event viewer... sounds like a virus. do you have AV? If not try an online scan like http://housecall.trendmicro.com/

Zaphod B

Well Sygate Personal was the first thing I downloaded once I got the connection working, and I've used Trend Micro's online scanner and downloaded Avast, both of which say I'm virus-free (which I'm inclined to disagree with but stilll...)

bambam

try using microsoft's tool bootvis to figure out if its a driver or something software related that's slowing things down

Stephen

Try McAfee's Stinger - http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/

Got service packs installed? (Assuming you're using Win2k/XP)

Saruman

Might not be virus then.. could be crapware... try hijackthis and see whats running.. if you dont understand it then post the log here and i will take a look (as will all the other helpful people here )

h did anything show in event viewer?

greglo23

i`d agree with Mutant Fruit above about Kerio http://www.kerio.com/kerio.html and i`d also try out the new AVG 7 free personal antivirus program http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php.
the first thing to do though is run a full scandisk by right clicking on your c drive in windows explorer, properties,tools ,check now , tick both boxes and hit start. it will tell you it can`t get access to the disk and do you want to schedule a check on next boot . this has sorted a few slowdowns for me in the past.

Zaphod B

Have tried a few things. Stinger found no virus, Ad-Aware found a few low-risk data miners (deleted), hijack this found...

---

Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 7:43:27pm, on 27/11/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP2 (6.00.2900.2180)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Sygate\SPF\smc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Alcatel\SpeedTouch USB\Dragdiag.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\aswUpdSv.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashServ.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashMaiSv.exe
C:\Documents and Settings\MainUser\Desktop\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.bbc.co.uk/
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - c:\program files\google\googletoolbar1.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Google - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - c:\program files\google\googletoolbar1.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SoundMan] SOUNDMAN.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SpeedTouch USB Diagnostics] "C:\Program Files\Alcatel\SpeedTouch USB\Dragdiag.exe" /icon
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SmcService] C:\PROGRA~1\Sygate\SPF\smc.exe -startgui
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSConfig] C:\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\Binaries\MSConfig.exe /auto
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [KernelFaultCheck] %systemroot%\system32\dumprep 0 -k
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [avast!] C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Google Search - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmsearch.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Backward Links - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmbacklinks.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Cached Snapshot of Page - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmcache.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Similar Pages - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmsimilar.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Translate into English - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmtrans.html
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger (HKLM)
O16 - DPF: {74D05D43-3236-11D4-BDCD-00C04F9A3B61} (HouseCall Control) - http://a840.g.akamai.net/7/840/537/2004061001/housecall.trendmicro.com/housecall/xscan53.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{DC35272B-386A-4B9C-AE41-38F6EC1297CB}: NameServer = 195.92.195.95 195.92.195.94

---

Any ideas? I'll give scandisk a try but I'm not too hopeful, since defrag actually seemed to make the problem worse.

Mutant_Fruit

your running processes seem clean, nothing obviously dodgy.

So that leaves the problem down to either crappy drivers, or some dodgy startup program or startup script.

Does the problem occur even when you start in safe-mode. If so, that rules out dodgy drivers... i think. Give that a shot and tell us if safe-mode fixes it.

Zaphod B

Will try Safe Mode. In the meantime, I've just run Check Disk (I miss good old Scandisk )... it took an hour to "Verify free space"... surely that can't be normal on a virtually empty 120gigger?

Saruman

Try safe mode yes...
Nothing too dodgy in the log. The google bars should go and im not sure about that alcatel USB thing.. Also dumprep 0 -k should go too.

Zaphod B

Alcatel is the modem; it never gave me problems on my old machine but I'll have a go at updating drivers anyway. I doubt the Google toolbar is causing the prob as it started long before I enabled that.

.... Update ....

This is just getting more and more bizarre. I ran Safe Mode and it started up fine (although obviously I couldn't test the internet connection)... then I restarted in normal mode to the same old problem, which if anything is now worse. It zooms through the DOS-type screens so fast that twice I wasn't in time to activate safe mode, but once at the welcome screen it takes a good couple of minutes to do absolutely nothing. I then get my Windows icons & interface and I can open several applications (Recycle Bin, Stinger anti-virus, Notepad) but not several others (notably the internet connection and IE)... after a few minutes I can access these, and if I tried to open them during the 'hanging' then they open now... with activity (rattling sound and activity light) from the HD that would make you think I was trying to force some NASA software to run on it rather than simply connect to the internet or get into Windows Help. Meanwhile CPU usage is apparently negligible; it's definitely the HD that's complaining.

I've also noticed that it takes an incredibly long time to shut down... add to this the fact that despite a generally good systems spec Half-Life 2 grinds to a halt during any loading, and I'm starting to wonder if my problem is that the HD is just, to use the correct technical term, completely fvcked...

Even if it's simply the HD's software that's the problem, I'm a bit screwed because I don't have a floppy and AFAIK it's necessary to actually flash the HD since an HD doesn't have 'drivers' as such... any suggestions?

Many thanks, and if anyone does come up with a solution I will happily buy you a drink/have your babies/whatever you want just name it!

Zaphod B

Well I now officially feel like an authentic Kermit-grade muppet. Turns out it was a simple driver conflict (I'm guessing)... I moved the computer and when used in its new home with a different mouse, monitor and internet connection it works fine. I should point out that I've neither uninstalled any drivers/software, or installed any new ones (same model monitor, ancient ball mouse and autodetecting LAN connection)... so I'm guessing the problem was just with Windows actively trying to use the conflicty drivers in question (whichever it was; mouse or modem). The only other thing I did was to install a HD (as slave)... can't see how that could possibly have solved the problem... oh well, too confusing, just glad it's working now!

Thanks for all the help,
Z