Magician

Illkillya

Finally finished Magician. Hard to judge this one i think, i know its excellent, but i don't know if its one of the best. the best thing about the book is what the author acknowledged himself - it is just a big yarn, spanning two worlds and over 12 years. the author didn't know how to write well, so he just wrote everything he would like to find in a fantasy novel. One of the worst things about any fantasy book, i think, is when the author tries to make it an allegorical masterpiece. Look at a lot of fantasy books - i said this b4 about Covenant books, they are really dulled, in my opinion by the inner battles, complexities, and parallels drawn with real life. Some people pull it off perfectly, but most of the time, it is just annoying. Like in the elfstones of shannara - how he couldn't use them and stuff.
There is none of that in Magician. There is Tomas' inner conflict, and Pug finding his Wal, and stuff, but that is very well done. Feist does not create barriers for himself either - if an idea is used in about 50 other books, he doesn't care. that is good too, i think.
I think a lot of the books i read were copies of this - most notably Memory, Sorrow, Thorn trilogy by tad williams. The one thing lacking in the book, i think, is some good characters. it might sound like a contradiction, given what i said earlier. Pug and most characters are perfect, no flaws. I think it is good to have a perfect main character, but the only real characters in the book with any personality were Roland, maybe Dolgan, and Amos.
I could go on all day about how other books copied Magician, but i won't bother. Very good book, though. can i read faerie tale now?

Wyverne

well,
i done know,like, whatEVER

hehe, yes u can read farie tale now, although r u sure u would not prefer to finish the trilogy u've just begun

if not then definately read Farie Tale.
as u said feist makes no attempt to "parallacise" (authoritive licence) his books with real life.

most of his books are what they are, fables or adventure stories (or "one big yarn")
and thats actually quite a refreshing experince in my opinion. u can read his books without any complexities thrown in by the author to make the book more than it is or ever can be.

with regards to Thomas' inner struggle, i loved that.
In fact my favourite part in the whole book was the scene where thoms is about to kill the enemies (even though it wasn't really thomas - it was ashen shugar), and then there was the final inner fight.
thomas was the rock that the endless sea of ashen shugar could not break.

MAN I LOVED THAT PART, really made me sit back and think for a sec, the kind of scene in a book that just makes u shout at the top of your lungs.....

"YES,.. YES OH YES"

HEHE,

yes u can read Farie Tale NOW.....

---

Ask before ye "TAKE IT"

[This message has been edited by Wyverne (edited 19-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Wyverne (edited 19-03-2000).]

Illkillya

i know, that was decent allright, but the best part, except for the beginning 100 pages (which were very nice and happy even though you knew what was going to happen) was when Pug... i mean Milamber... released his fury on the Tsurani at the games. And also when Macros the Black destroyed the Great Ones. That was another good thing about magician - the more powerful you make the good guys at the end, the better. Magician really mad Pug and Thomas all-powerful. That is something i haven't seen, i don't think... Remember in the Wishsong of Shanara, Garet Jax. He was supposed to be the greatest, but he was nothing compared to thomas, or Pug. Even Allanon was dwarfed by Pug's power, and thats good... Except in Elric of Melnibone series - i think Elric might have matched the power... but nobody read them...
Methinks i've decided that i preferred the Dragonbone Chair, tad williams series even though it was a complete copy. orphan raised in castle by cook/chambermistress. becomes apprentice to magician. king with 2 sons. Morgenes=Kulgan, Joshua=Arutha, Elias=Lyam. Father Tully= Father Strangyeard. Guy = Fengbald...
Norns = Tsurnami+Darkbrotherhood
Ashen shugar= Inleuki
Norns "directing them" in Greenhart= DB "directing them" in Aldhart
could go on all day

Its too copyish, but i still thought it was very good

Illkillya

bit unclear at the end... Dragonbone Chair is too copyish...

WhiteWashMan

i thought magician was overly simplistic and lacking in any decent characters.
there was no drive in it. didnt get the pulse up. ony part that i really enjoyed was in darkness at sethanon where the big battle in the fortress happens. now that was cool.
doesnt hold a candle to the wheel of time series for detail and just sheer enjoyment.
feist is just boring. you know whats going to happen, everything goes according to the heros plan and s=every one in the book is a bloody hero. its like in some battle some guy had 15 arrows in him and yet he still manages to kill a few baddies, preferably the biggest ones around, which in truth breaks the attack and he saves the day, and while doing all this ges all the hurt of his chest to some bird who happens to be in the middle of the battle as well and convince her that hes not the cad that everyone thought he was, it was just some act that was very noble and now everyone loves him and he dies and everyones all sad coz the person that everyone wanted to knoch 7 colours of ****e out of 10 pages earlier is dead.
no seriously, its like that. talk about fairy worlds.....its fantasy, but its homogonised and pasturised and very boring.

that doesnt mean it has to be in depth to be exciting, but writting to a formula gets boring. read the rest of his books. once youve read one youve read em all.
except the second last one in the serpent war saga coz every one dies

Illkillya

thats kind of what i was trying to say politely, but not to the same degree. the characters are dull, and the plot is predictable, and he is not a great writer (in magician - thats the only one i read). I agree with you, it really does fit a formula. tis a bit of a paradox though
by taking all of the same old, used up, predictable aspects in all the other books, he sets no limits for himself. twould be way better if i had never read another fantasy book. and it was his first one.

Forgot to mention, the end of the book, previews of the sequels, it mentions "the dreaded Necromancer Macros the Black"
I know he comes back from the dead, but is he evil or what?

Illkillya

will do, since i have book 8. but i heard that wheel of time is very hard to get into. since quake3 destroyed my brain, i haven't been able to read books like that, but i'll try anyway. more distressing is that i heard the series isn't finished yet!!
But i also heard that they were very good. two books were recommended to me by an expert - Magician and Wheel of time. i'll give it a blast so. i'll be back in about 2 weeks when i have the 1st one read with my judgement

Wyverne

wwman, whats book one called, please
cheer m8

WhiteWashMan

no. ha turns out to be his best friend and pug marries his daughter and they all battle his ex wife in the serpent war saga.
but i wouldnt bother
get the wheel of time series instead. far more entertaining, far more enjoyable, the plot is...er...very twisted, bit too much detail but over all it is about the best read about in the genre.

Wyverne

Part in stadium wuz kewl

Illkillya

that was the best part allright - especially because the other blackrobes thought they could take him at first... it reminded me of when Aragorn revealed his identity to King Theoden - but then there was all the destruction and stuff....
Wheel of times will have to wait - i just miraculously found Silverthorn in my bookshelf, and i never knew i had it
must be fate...

Edge

sorry im a bit late in posting for this
my favourite part was when pug blew the fúck out of everyone in the stadium
the tomas part was good as well
but nothing beats massacure

---

Tom

Trojan

Who wrote that "Wheel of Time" stuff, was that Robert something?

Is it sf or fantasy? What's the story? Never got round to reading it.

On "The Reality Disfunction" at the mo, excellent book, especially being 1st in a trilogy and weighing in at over 1200 pages

*stoopid aussie accent* "That's not a book, this is a book!"

Al.

Illkillya

Robert Jordan. its fantasy, meant to be very good. whats this reality disfuntion one? Sci-Fi? must be a huge trilogy, 3600pages?

Manach

- Reality Dysfuntion by Peter Hamilton is SciFi, sort of space operaish, but still very good. Read the last part of the trilogy over the weekend "The Naked God" and it was only 1170 pages long. . It has an interesting ending.
Recommended.

Trojan

Cheers Manach,

I am finding it an excellent read (only 500 pages through yet).

Looking forward to the next book.

He also wrote "A Quantum Murder", I read this a couple of years ago, it was pretty good too. I'd like to see some more of this guys stuff.

Al.

Wyverne

i think some1 (trojan) saw cocidile dundee recently, hehe
brilliant film

"thats not a film, THIS is a film"

Great film, lol

thnax for the reminder

and yes illkillya hehe it was fate for you to find silverthorn on yer bookshelf, good on yer m8, drongo an all dat.

Illkillya

Crocodile dundee was on last night - i saw some of it... finished silverthorn btw, bought darkness at sethanon.

[IAR]Recon

alright this is my first time posting a topic in here

Illkillya u still have bout another 9 books to read

finish this trilogy, then the ones in between (including the new ones, then read the last 4 called the "Serpant War Saga" or something like that

Illkillya

i know - i heard the other day that the second series is meant to be excellent, but the third one is not. Then someone told me to read Gemell - never read anything by him. But i think Wheel of time comes first... but before that i have to read the Dead School because i have it already, and methinks too much fantasy in too little time will be too much.

WhiteWashMan

the eye of the wheel is the forst in the wheel of time series.
it takes a few hundred pages to work up a swet, but from their its bloody ecellent
you will have no idea what is going on coz you only leanr what is going on as the characters know what is happening.
its so well done.
hell, i think i'll start reading the series again after ive finishd infinity by john barnes, which is also bloody good if a little wierd!

Wyverne

yeah illkillya, david gemmel is actually quite good

look for david gemmel "legend"
good book but theres so bloody many its hard to know where to start


"at the start /me heres some1 saying"

Kegser

Feist is one of those authors who enjoys the whole 'I'm a little turd, but in a few years time I will RULE THE WORLD!' kinda thing.

Sometimes its interesting but other times its boring as hell..

The Wheel of Time is ****ing brilliant, I must have read the whole series about six or seven times by now..

The only bad thing is that twat Robert Jordan wont be releasing the next book for another two years or so... thats assuming he doesnt go the way of Herbert and die before he gets the chance to... wouldnt that be a kick in the nads?

Kegs.

Wyverne

ILLKILLYA WHEN U FINISH SILVERTHORN U NEED TO READ DARKNESS AT SETHANORN

Illkillya

I JUST READ IT. finished it last night. twas good - but people are still going insane because of the Wheel of Time, so i better read that

pox

Im a little late with this one,
but if you're into fantasy/magic then i truly
recommend the wizard of earthsea quartet by
Ursula LeGuin. Haunting and unique
in a way other books just cant manage.
i found its impression has stayed
with me (you know, that feeling that
you get the day you finish a good book)
since I read it (13 years ago I think).