High performance radiators / undefloor heating

qazxsw

Hi folks,

I'm building a new house, either two storey or dormer and am thinking of installing a geothermal heating system with underfloor heating downstairs and either underfloor heating upstairs or high performance radiators.

1) Do any of ye have any experience of various radiator manufacturers / systems - there doesn't seem to be much on the web w.r.t. radiators that work with low temperature water, i.e. 35-40 degrees as produced by a geothermal system.

2) A lad at work is installing undefloor heating in his new timber frame house by "double joisting" at the first floor sheeting over it and laying the pipes then a concrete screed -- have any of ye heard of anyone doing something similar

Thanks in advance

Victor

qazxsw wrote:

1) Do any of ye have any experience of various radiator manufacturers / systems - there doesn't seem to be much on the web w.r.t. radiators that work with low temperature water, i.e. 35-40 degrees as produced by a geothermal system.

I'm not sure if a radiator will provide adequate surface area for low temp water.

Stoner

Try Valve control systems, 01 8258081 regrding unferfloor heating etc if you have no joy PM me and I'll give you the mob no of someone who knows alot,

Regards the rads, try Merriot rad 4596209 one again i can give a name and no if a general info search fails

- We have worked with alot of under floor heating, i'd still say that normal rads are the best bet, builders damaging the pipes can be a problem, i assume is the water in the pipes and not electric coils either way its an expensive way to go compared to the conventional heating, unfortunately i have no knowledge of their appication/performace in wooden houses, if they work differently in this environment then its news to me, i assume that you need less heat/energy to heat a wooden house

yop

doing the same setup lad

Timber Frame -
Underfloor
Geothermal.

Have had varying suggestions on how to do upstairs. Screen was one, the other I saw at a show at the weekend is the insulation has tracks in it to incorporate the pipes.

I can give you the details of teh quotes I have got for all TF, Geo and UF if you want

GLuck

AidoX

Hi Yop,
I'd be very interested in the quotes you get for both the Heating and Geo. Im not sure if this will help but have you checked out http://www.self-build.co.uk I got a fantastic mag off them called Self Building Ireland, dont have it to hand but it has many contacts and case studies which has warmed me to the idea of Geo heating, its becoming the in thing with self builders. When I get home I'll scan all the contact info listed in it and send it on to you if you like. There is some really good case studies up on that site.

yop

thanks lad, ya I was at the Selfbuild show in galway last Saturday. Hosted by the lads from www.selfbuild.ie

I have sent off to about 17 odd companies for quotes for Geothermal and UF. To be honest there are a lot of them out there, bit like everyone jumped on the band wagon.

The price differences is something unreal. But it is good to go with a reputable company too.

RuggieBear

yop wrote:

thanks lad, ya I was at the Selfbuild show in galway last Saturday. Hosted by the lads from www.selfbuild.ie

I have sent off to about 17 odd companies for quotes for Geothermal and UF. To be honest there are a lot of them out there, bit like everyone jumped on the band wagon.

The price differences is something unreal. But it is good to go with a reputable company too.

Do you mind if i ask you what the quotes ranged from...i was thinking about doing something like this for my mams house...

yop

The best quote I got was from WarmFloor for the UFH which was rought 7k euro, the best Geo was for 9k,

I have got quote where the combination quotes we up to 24k, so you are talking about an 8k Euro difference

antoinolachtnai

I have heard of it being done as follows:

you put the underfloor heating pipes in between the joists. You fill the space between the joists with sand.

Yes, obviously you have to have your ceiling set up so it can take the weight if you do this upstairs.

Yes, it sounded like a loony plan to me too.

You occasionally come across the odd person who wants to run the underfloor heating off the same circuit as the radiators. If someone proposes this, he is either very savvy about thermodynamics or else he's chancing his arm.

With any underfloor heating system, you have to treat it quite differently from a conventional heating system that is traditionally installed in a house in Ireland. You have to set the thermostat and then leave it. You can't go fiddling with the controls constantly and expect it to work. There are reports of serious problems with underfloor heating in Ireland, and it sounds to me like the problems are often cultural and psychological rather than simply technical.

The other thing is that underfloor won't work well with rugs and carpets.

Surely the modern way of heating a new house is that system where you intake external air, pass it through a heat exchanger to warm it up, and blow it throughout the house? That way you maintain positive pressure (keeping draughts out) within the building and ensure that it is adequately ventilated. Of course you need to have the place very well insulated and make good use of solar gain in the design. I don't know how this plays with geothermal.

pipers

Radiators are designed to work at 82 degrees.

qazxsw

Few points

#########################
I picked up some literature form Pure Enegy Technology at the self build show - they are recommending high performance ALUMINUM radiators as ONE solution for first floor heating powered by a geo thermal system - they are supposed to work with lower temperature water any of ye come across these before ??

#########################

Getting back to the undefloor heating again...

I'm thinking of building a block house, not a timber frame. I only mentioned timberframe as this was the context in which double joisting originally came up. I got some preliminary quotes for a suspended concrete first floor at the Galway self build show. These are coming in at around 5 1/2 K for the concrete slabs themselves, then I have to

** "grout" between the gaps and either
** batten + plasterboard + plaster the underside
OR
** apply coat of bonding + plaster the underside

I'm wonderign if it would be cheaper to

-- block to first floor level
-- double joist directly onto the blocks
(no joist hangers as direct to block would provide more support for concrete screed)
-- plywood onto the joists
-- insulation onto the plywood
-- underfloor heating pipes + concrete screed onto plywood
-- plasterboard + plaster to underside

especially since much of the "double joist" method could be the diy route

opinions ??

Capt'n Midnight

Has anyone tried a forced ventilation on radiators - moving air should increase the heat transfer so a smaller rad would do the job of a bigger one ?

yop

"anyone tried a forced ventilation on radiators "

The rads with the fans on them is it?? I hear they are possibly prone to breakin, in other words the fans just leave you with more moving parts to break!!

bmm

yop wrote:

The best quote I got was from WarmFloor for the UFH which was rought 7k euro, the best Geo was for 9k,

I have got quote where the combination quotes we up to 24k, so you are talking about an 8k Euro difference

Who did u go with in the end and how did you get on? Could you name the other company's and quotes. I think plumbing a house with underfloor heating works out about double. eg. If Radiators and Boiler and hot/cold water costs €12k then same with underfloor costs €24K.