No such hand as a Royal Flush?

w3b5t3r

Can I get a definitive answer on this from anyone? Is a royal flush a ranked poker hand - ie a seperate entity to a straight flush, if you were explaining the hands to someone would you say 'high card, pair, 2 pair..............4 of a kind, straight flush, royal flush'.
In my opinion it's a straight flush to the ace that happens to have a nick-name, not an individual ranked hand, I've done a bit of internet searching and can't seem to get a 'once an for all answer' although I did find this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_flush - not too sure how reliable it is and the the World Poker Tour site which has this http://www.worldpokertour.com/pokercorner/ranking/

I asume someone will know or at lease have an opinion as for me I don't believe either even exists, and if they do I've never seen them!!

Thanks for any light ye can shed

Hyzepher

Afaik a royal flush is just a nick name. Never saw any formal inclusion in any ranked hand explanations.

Hyzepher

JuliusFranco

w3b5t3r wrote:

In my opinion it's a straight flush to the ace that happens to have a nick-name, not an individual ranked hand

correct. A royal flush is a nick name for a straight flush to the A in the same way "A Wheel" is 5432A, "broadway" is AKJQT i think. It's the highest form of the highest ranking hand.

Oh, and they do exist!
Anyway, a royal flush will bet any other straight flush so you can have it as a "seperate entity" if you want, as long as my AKQJT of hearts always beats your KQJT9 of hearts you cab call it anything you want

Dub13

Hyzepher wrote:

Afaik a royal flush is just a nick name. Never saw any formal inclusion in any ranked hand explanations.

Hyzepher

I have.

http://www.poker.net/school/handrankings/default.htm

Krusty_Clown

Dub13 wrote:

I have.

http://www.poker.net/school/handrankings/default.htm

That link is pretty unreliable.. It includes 5-of-a-kind, which to my (limited) knowledge does not exist as a hand, even with wild cards.. i.e. 4 queens and a wild card should not beat a straight flush. Anyone have any thoughts?

JuliusFranco

i keep away from that kind of poker but i 5 of a kind beats a straight flush!

yuk!

Juan Pablo

Krusty_Clown wrote:

It includes 5-of-a-kind, which to my (limited) knowledge does not exist as a hand, even with wild cards.. i.e. 4 queens and a wild card should not beat a straight flush. Anyone have any thoughts?

In the Bentley Continental GT of all poker games, 3 Joker Wild Omaha, 5 of a kind is known as a Pyramid, and will beat a straight flush unless said straight flush happens to be a Royal flush.

DeVore

5-of-a-kind is sometimes referred to as a "palace".

Royal Flush is kinda like a nickname but such a specific hand (there are only 4 of them possible) that most people include it in hand rankings because its the highest hand in poker.

DeV.

w3b5t3r

Does that mean you would or would not class it as a ranked (seperate) hand to a SF?

Davey Devil

In my opinion it's not a seperate ranking. It's an ace high straight flush, it's still a royal flush though but it shouldn't have it's own place on the ladder.

Do you have a bet with someone about this??

w3b5t3r

no, just an on-going debate, and he never admits to being wrong, so if i get enough people (that he respects the opinion of) to agree with my thinking on it then i'll surely convince him

Krusty_Clown

Juan Pablo wrote:

In the Bentley Continental GT of all poker games, 3 Joker Wild Omaha, 5 of a kind is known as a Pyramid, and will beat a straight flush unless said straight flush happens to be a Royal flush.

I guess in the Bentley Continental GT of poker games a Straight Flush is a completely different hand to a Royal Flush, if the 5-of-a-kind ranks somewhere in between these two hands..

Jees, that must be a crazy game.. I'd need 5 minutes just to figure out what I was holding..

Juan Pablo

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Jees, that must be a crazy game.. I'd need 5 minutes just to figure out what I was holding..

Better believe it baby! And I havn't even begun to explain how a natural nuts is stronger than a joker nut card.......

And it also becomes 5 card No limit 3J-WO heads up :eek:

Iago

my head hurts.......

Marq

some forms of draw poker use one joker as an ace or to complete a straight or flush. five aces is therefore the highest possibly ranked hand in these forms of draw, as there is only one possible combination that gives you the hand (Ad Ah As Ac Joker) as opposed to the 4 different combinations that give you a royal flush (hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds) and the 40 combinations that will give you any straight flush.

w3b5t3r

If I just limit it to hold 'em then, the standard way we all play, would anyone consider a royal flush a seperate ranked hand to a straight flush?

MrPudding

w3b5t3r wrote:

If I just limit it to hold 'em then, the standard way we all play, would anyone consider a royal flush a seperate ranked hand to a straight flush?

No.

DeVore

Yes.

Logic: Why is 2 pair different to one pair. Seriously, relax your brain and think about it. You choose 5 cards. Some are the same, some are very brightly coloured, some are coordinated in "patterns". We name these patterns and rank them but they all have 5 cards. 2 pair is higher then one pair. But both hands are similar. Trips is VERY like one pair in fact. A Royal flush is a named hand with a very specific meaning. Its VERY VERY like a straight... in fact it IS a straight. Its the highest straight, much like a poker is the highest 2 pair. A house is the highest trips. Its a bit of a mental leap but its like species of animals, we think of them as species only because we've always thought of them as *seperate* species. Modern geneticists dont. They "rank" animals into species or familes of species for simplicity but they understand that they are all just continuous expressions of genes. Hands in poker are continuous expressions of 5 card combinations, some of which we give names to and group.

We group them because a member of one grouping is higher then the member of another. AAKKQ is worse then 22234. And in the same way, TJQKA of clubs beats 9TJQK of spades.

If you want to take it out of the rankings then we should do away with rankings entirely and say "the most improbable hand wins".
I need drugs.

DeV.

Dub13

DeVore wrote:

If you want to take it out of the rankings then we should do away with rankings entirely and say "the most improbable hand wins".
I need drugs.

DeV.

DeV its to early for all that.....you need drugs,by the sound of it you have taken a few already today

Hectorjelly

That way everyone would be a winner!

The chances of getting 4c Kd 2h 7s Jh are the same as Ac Ad Ah As Kh, the second one just looks prettier.

Iago

DeVore wrote:

Yes.

Logic: Why is 2 pair different to one pair. Seriously, relax your brain and think about it. You choose 5 cards. Some are the same, some are very brightly coloured, some are coordinated in "patterns". We name these patterns and rank them but they all have 5 cards. 2 pair is higher then one pair. But both hands are similar. Trips is VERY like one pair in fact. A Royal flush is a named hand with a very specific meaning. Its VERY VERY like a straight... in fact it IS a straight. Its the highest straight, much like a poker is the highest 2 pair. A house is the highest trips. Its a bit of a mental leap but its like species of animals, we think of them as species only because we've always thought of them as *seperate* species. Modern geneticists dont. They "rank" animals into species or familes of species for simplicity but they understand that they are all just continuous expressions of genes. Hands in poker are continuous expressions of 5 card combinations, some of which we give names to and group.

We group them because a member of one grouping is higher then the member of another. AAKKQ is worse then 22234. And in the same way, TJQKA of clubs beats 9TJQK of spades.

If you want to take it out of the rankings then we should do away with rankings entirely and say "the most improbable hand wins".
I need drugs.

DeV.

I disagree, I would view it as a straight flush to the A. It's the same ranking as any other straight flush with the highest card winning. I don't think it has a seperate ranking to a straight flush, just a different title to make it sound better

RuggieBear

Hectorjelly wrote:

The chances of getting 4c Kd 2h 7s Jh are the same as Ac Ad Ah As Kh, the second one just looks prettier.

Have you ever had either!?

Hyzepher

DeVore wrote:

Yes.

Logic: Why is 2 pair different to one pair. Seriously, relax your brain and think about it. You choose 5 cards. Some are the same, some are very brightly coloured, some are coordinated in "patterns". We name these patterns and rank them but they all have 5 cards. 2 pair is higher then one pair. But both hands are similar. Trips is VERY like one pair in fact. A Royal flush is a named hand with a very specific meaning. Its VERY VERY like a straight... in fact it IS a straight. Its the highest straight, much like a poker is the highest 2 pair. A house is the highest trips. Its a bit of a mental leap but its like species of animals, we think of them as species only because we've always thought of them as *seperate* species. Modern geneticists dont. They "rank" animals into species or familes of species for simplicity but they understand that they are all just continuous expressions of genes. Hands in poker are continuous expressions of 5 card combinations, some of which we give names to and group.

We group them because a member of one grouping is higher then the member of another. AAKKQ is worse then 22234. And in the same way, TJQKA of clubs beats 9TJQK of spades.

If you want to take it out of the rankings then we should do away with rankings entirely and say "the most improbable hand wins".
I need drugs.

DeV.

This has got to be the most drug fuelled, sleep deprived, gay related, tilt inspiring and downright silliest post ever !!

Hyzepher

DeVore

I thank you.

Also, HJ, I knew when I was typing that someone would point out that any *specific* combination of cards is as likely (or unlikely) as any other specific combination of cards. I also had a pretty good idea that it would be you

DeV.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

I thank you.

Also, HJ, I knew when I was typing that someone would point out that any *specific* combination of cards is as likely (or unlikely) as any other specific combination of cards. I also had a pretty good idea that it would be you

DeV.

In fact, I knew that you knew that I would do that, and make the above post. I think tonights game is going to be interesting

Hectorjelly

RuggieBear wrote:

Have you ever had either!?

Ive had 4 aces before, I dont remember what my kicker was. I have no idea if Ive had the other hand before, its not that memorable.

w3b5t3r

I see your point DeV (i think!)
If someone new to the game, or just unsure of the rankings, were to ask what beats what - would you reply 'high card, pair, 2 pair, trips, straight, flush, full house, 4 of a kind, straight flush, royal flush' or omit the royal flush, a lot of people include it, my point is that by including it is it not like saying '.....pair, pair of aces, trips, trip aces...' or including all the hands in between, or (getting back to the original question) is a RF indeed a seperate ranked hand all of it's own?

henbane

Hectorjelly wrote:

In fact, I knew that you knew that I would do that, and make the above post.

It's like some fúcked up Escher painting. Is there anything penny arcade can't do?

RuggieBear

Hectorjelly wrote:

Ive had 4 aces before, I dont remember what my kicker was. I have no idea if Ive had the other hand before, its not that memorable.

lol...it's not is it!Never had four of a kind but i've had a king high straight flush. My brother once got two dif suited Royal flushes within 10-15 hands of each other at a charity poker classic we were at....he couldn't keep a straight face on the 2nd one....just laughed his ass off!

Hitman Actual

RuggieBear wrote:

lol...it's not is it!Never had four of a kind but i've had a king high straight flush. My brother once got two dif suited Royal flushes within 10-15 hands of each other at a charity poker classic we were at....he couldn't keep a straight face on the 2nd one....just laughed his ass off!

Jammy fckr I assume you're talking about draw poker, I played draw for eight years (before I knew that better games existed!) and didn't have one Royal Flush

Krusty_Clown

I got pocket 10's two hands in a row last night online, followed by a few rag hands, followed by pocket 10s again.. Pocket 10s in approximately three out of eight hands.. Don't know what the odds are of that..

Oh and before you ask, I won the three hands.. And the STT... If I knew they were coming, I might have tried to play each pair differently to see what the outcome was like. But in each case, I raised to 2BB and everybody folded.. On the third go, I was kind of hoping someone might think I was stealing and have a punt (there were only 4 players remaining)..

So, does a full-house exist, or is it two pairs with a really good kicker?
Do aces exist, or are they just really good rag cards?
This is getting surreal.

w3b5t3r

I just noticed the google ad link at the end of this page has a list of ranked hands, and it has RF seperately, maybe I'm completely wrong, I can't see how it's seperate. I have to get an answer to this, is there an official poker or hold 'em governing body, if the rules were to be changed by someone who/where would that someone be?

DeVore

'scuse me, while I kiss the sky..


DeV.

amp

DeVore wrote:

Yes.
If you want to take it out of the rankings then we should do away with rankings entirely and say "the most improbable hand wins".

I'm no maths boffin and I'm just a girl, but aren't the rankings a naming system for the most improbable hands? A Royal flush being the most improbable. I've dealt a lot of hands in the last month or two and I've only seen 3 of them. I've seen about three times as many quads.

Actually now that I've thought about it a little, the odds of getting a straight flush are the same as a Royal Flush, it's just that a RF outranks a lower straight flush.

Still, it's always nice when it happens. The RF holder has the ultimate nuts and nobody can complain losing to it and I don't have to spend any time working out if it's a split pot or if somebody backdoored a straight.

Also thanks to any boards folk who put up with my efforts to get over sidepotophobia last night. Table 2 reminded me of the game Burnout 2, everybody kept driving their stacks into the centre. To think I laughed at my maths teachers when they said I'd actually need to use algebra in the real-world(tm)

RuggieBear

lenny_leonard wrote:

Jammy fckr I assume you're talking about draw poker, I played draw for eight years (before I knew that better games existed!) and didn't have one Royal Flush

Yeah it was plain old 5 card draw.That's all i can play confidently. Not very good at texas holdem (don't know the odds)....trying to learn it from the posts here and watching late night poker on the tv.

I always considered a Royal flush to be a seperate rank....

Hitman Actual

RuggieBear wrote:

Yeah it was plain old 5 card draw.That's all i can play confidently. Not very good at texas holdem (don't know the odds)....trying to learn it from the posts here and watching late night poker on the tv.

I always considered a Royal flush to be a seperate rank....

Believe it or not, I actually think that playing draw poker is a great way to cover all the basic concepts in poker... there are only two betting rounds, the maths is easy, and you get into the habit of really studying other players for your information. And there are a lot of excellent draw players in Ireland... the blue rinse brigade as someone mentioned before. The problem is it's like learning Irish in school: You never get to use it in the real world

I'm also a lot more comfortable in a draw game (much more experience, I suppose). I'm only playing HE for a couple of years, but a lot of the time at the table I don't know my arse from my elbow.

Oh yeah, the hand ranking thing. I don't consider the Royal flush to be a separate ranking, just a slang term for the highest straight flush.

DeVore

You could hardly say it was a slang term like "A wheel" "Boat" "Montana Banana" etc... its a good bit more formally accepted then that methinks...

DeV.

Hitman Actual

Yeah, I suppose a "slang term" is a bit loose. I still don't rate it as a separate ranking... to me it's just the highest straight flush. Although it is harder to get, giving it a certain mystical value.

This is definately a strange thread