How to handle techie "favours"?

DonkeyStyle \o/

I think most techie types out there have experienced being the guy "who knows about computers" to friends and family, and the expected favours from people you hardly know, or having friends or family members offering your services to same.

My problem is that I can't say "no" to people, and end up helping people I wouldn't otherwise talk to... sometimes this is alright as a nixer if the person you're helping knows what they'd have to pay a stranger and actually pays you something approaching reasonable for your time.
But more often than not, these people expect something for nothing or expect to slip you some pathetic amount for hours out of your day... just because you're a friend or relative of someone they know.
Even if you help these people for free because it's a quicky, you end up taking support phone calls from them months later, even though you haven't seen or spoken to them since.

I'm at a stage where I've built up a long client list of people who expect something for nothing, it's my own fault for being too soft... the latest absolute piss-take being my sisters boss asking her to phone me to help her with her (the bosses) office computer because she's too tight to hire someone to come in and take a look.
Natrually I've had enough and told her to "f*ck off, it's not my problem".
I'm being a hard-ass from now on, enough is enough, no more free lunches, it's prices upfront from now on, I'm sick of being exploited.

I actually saw a thread exactly like this a few years ago, but I can't remember wheather it was on the "Computers" or "Work" forum. (so no moaning about off-topicness, the precident has already been set!)

This post is half a rant and half an invitation to share your similar experiences and how you deal with this situation... I could use some pointers

Thanks.

daymobrew

My wife are both techies/nerds (I write this on my laptop with wireless connection to my ntl bb connection, after watching something I downloaded via BitTorrent).
We get asked stuff by our fathers.
My father-in-law used Outlook and spread viruses. We used to give out to him but eventually installed Linux on his machine. No problems since. We set up ssh so we could connect to his machine and work on it if necessary.

My father is a different story. Not too bad virus-spreading wise but seems to install every app on the CDs that come with computer mags. And then put a shortcut to each one his desktop, which you pretty much can no longer see.
My wife, who deals with network security a lot, has sternly recommended that he install a firewall among other stuff. She is moving toward the "we won't help you unless you implement the prerequisites we stipulate".

I definitely agree with telling the sister's boss to stuff it. Tell you sister to play down your techie-ness in the future, ask her to concentrate on your other 'positive' attributes.

I sympathize with you as I too am a softie. I tell myself that I love to help people. Most of the time I do (tell yourself enough times and you'll believe it ). If the people are competent enough you could try the 'teach a man to fish' approach so they'll sort it themselves in the future.

elivsvonchiaing

Computers are actually how I got my parents comfortable/tolerant with hearing the F-word from their son. This started with word perfect 5.1 - ah the memories... I would get a call - and within 2 minutes it would degenerate into f*ing and whatnot. They learned slowly. When I left the country they both did the ECDL course - still the odd f-word on the phone though since.

I'm not a nice guy I wouldn't dream of giving IT help to anyone I wasn't working for or closely related to, or hoping to get closely related to. Best mates - advice in pub okay - 5 minute phone call ok (once a year). Call out: pre call out advice - you will owe me a night on the piss for this!

You can't be too nice imho!

From a mates experience - never sell an old machine to anyone you know - they'll expect free tech support - in some cases don't give it away to them

azezil

heh yeah i've a couple of friends who call me up to help them fix stuff, its funny cause one of them does pc repair, calls me when she's stuck, the other does odd jobs from friends of the family and the like, calls me when he's stuck... both of them get paid for these repairs, i don't see a cent of it but i don't mind i enjoy troubleshooting and knowing i can help out a friend

elivsvonchiaing

azezil wrote:

heh yeah i've a couple of friends who call me up to help them fix stuff, its funny cause one of them does pc repair, calls me when she's stuck, the other does odd jobs from friends of the family and the like, calls me when he's stuck... both of them get paid for these repairs, i don't see a cent of it but i don't mind i enjoy troubleshooting and knowing i can help out a friend

Hey Azezil, don't let them use you on the ego thing - "I called you because I know this is beyond me..." for ****s sake don't get suckered into that!!!

Announce change of circumstance - and tell 'em to **** off - or my line : "You do realise this is a night on the piss!". :cool:
I was much nicer when I was younger - just wished I could have got older quicker (when I was 7 )

the_syco

I get asked to do stuff. Usually get paid €30 or so for the simplest of jobs, but as one dude put it "€60 is nothing. If I had to call one of those Dell f***holes out, I'd have to pay at least €200". And its proberly true (he had past experience with this sort of thing, seemingly).
Its usually something simple, such as "I bought a pice of equipment worth over €1000, any chance of you looking at it?" by my mates, but sometimes its as simple as "can you get X code for X game for X", which takes less than 5 minutes, and they're happy.

The worst was proberly when I was asked to set-up a system from year old parts, to get a P2 system up and running with Win2K. It wasn't the install, it was trying to get everything fit into the case Ended up telling them to "not move the PC too much", as most of the parts weren't tied down too well. That was over a year ago. No complaints since.

I hope to make this thing my job (fixing of PC's, doing tech support), so I've no worries about what people will ask me.

elivsvonchiaing

the_syco wrote:

I get asked to do stuff. Usually get paid €30 or so for the simplest of jobs, but as one dude put it "€60 is nothing. If I had to call one of those Dell f***holes out, I'd have to pay at least €200". And its proberly true (he had past experience with this sort of thing, seemingly).
Its usually something simple, such as "I bought a pice of equipment worth over €1000, any chance of you looking at it?" by my mates, but sometimes its as simple as "can you get X code for X game for X", which takes less than 5 minutes, and they're happy.

The worst was proberly when I was asked to set-up a system from year old parts, to get a P2 system up and running with Win2K. It wasn't the install, it was trying to get everything fit into the case Ended up telling them to "not move the PC too much", as most of the parts weren't tied down too well. That was over a year ago. No complaints since.

I hope to make this thing my job (fixing of PC's, doing tech support), so I've no worries about what people will ask me.

OMG. In previous post never addressed commercial...

Say its a company you used to work for... they know you and know your capabilities. There is at least 3 months work and they need you. You need to work out your worth and charge them this - register for VAT (even if you don't know if you'll hit the limit in time). Register a company name. (maybe no need).

You may need to go letter-head - business card etc. to the extent that your boss knows your are (in reality) a sole-trader and the CEO is oblivious of this - the downside is your mum is the company secretary and he's such a gimp he sees a female name on paper and has to ring the number .

{hasen't happened yet - won't quit my day-job to write pulp fiction. in scenario - proctologist would be needed to recover phone}

the_syco

Last job I left, I left my email, as some of the stuff was a wee bit advanced. They haven't contacted me yet (I also left a do-it-yourself guide when I left), so all's well, I think.

Also depends if I want to go back there :cool: and if they were sound or not to work for.

DonkeyStyle \o/

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

Hey Azezil, don't let them use you on the ego thing - "I called you because I know this is beyond me..." for ****s sake don't get suckered into that!!!

Sound advice there, I'm a sucker for sweet-talk
Great stuff guys keep it coming... my head is melted from this crap.

FranknFurter

last week,.....
8 hours, trying to explain to 50yo aunt, why *i* cant connect her to broadband without sorting out a line enable with eircon (no way was i gonna go into cheaper offers, she barely understood what eircon have to do with getting online) :rolleyes:...... then trying to explain wireless networking coz she wants to be able to surf from anywhere in the house,........then setting it all up for her......then all the tweaking and idiot proofing,.... finally get home at 330am.......get phone call 9am next day........ "my laptop battery is only lasting 3 hours, can you fix it!" 2 more hours trying to explain bout laptop batteries limitations............

all because iv done some supply an tech support and have my house hooked up wirelessly an can control it all from any room....... familly see this = tell everyone they meet = tells anyone *they* meet, *i* end up, get this, getting a call from a college tutor of my COUSIN! asking if ill "do him a quick favour and *find out why his computer has died"!!!! :eek:

An im sittin here trying to find a new part time job, ending up spending the time i should be sending out cv's and making calls, doing feckin virtually unpaid "quick favours" that take hours if not days for people i see maybe once a year!
just wanna scream and live like the Amish :rolleyes:

Peace

For family, i can't charge, obviously.

If it was for anyone i didn't really know... now bear in mind i've never done it.. there would have to be a fixed charge and then maybe a charge for hourly rate depending on how long it took.

I mean, 50euro out of peoples pocket isn't a serious deal especially when their PC is coming back online... maybe you could get some refferals out of it also... could end up earning a couple hundred extra a month that the tax man can't get his hands on...

samo

FranknFurter wrote:

just wanna scream and live like the Amish :rolleyes:

maybe you could all start up your own techie community somewhere in the a far away pocket of land....(offaly?), it could be like a techie 'the village' where you a technically minded soul can sit at their computer modding and tweaking free from silly questions from the less technically minded like how do I send an email....??

if I hear of it happening I'll know where you's are!!

My fella has this poor bloke on his job harrassed with questions from me about different things to do with computers and this guys a builder, just mentioned once he knows a little bit about computers, worst mistake he ever made! giving somone the odd dig out in moderation is one thing but getting peoples bosses to ring and get full network support thats a no-go!!

FranknFurter

samo wrote:

maybe you could all start up your own techie community somewhere in the a far away pocket of land....(offaly?), it could be like a techie 'the village' where you a technically minded soul can sit at their computer modding and tweaking free from silly questions from the less technically minded like how do I send an email....??!

Sounds like heaven!!!!

dazberry

I just refuse to do it anymore (beyond immediate relations who pay even at my protestations - but would return the favour). But it was just getting silly. I've been refusing people that come to me directly for months now some who I've "helped" out in the past. Of course they're "but I'll pay now" - but for me (in my mind): "you'd never bothered before so now I've no respect for you and you can fook off" - out of my mouth is a different more polite but never the less refusing story.

But I got roped/raped into fixing a couple of PCs for a friend of my mothers recently. Not his PCs mind - no - PCs of people he knew - sure aren't we all one big happy world. This was a tough one because I knew my mother was peppering about it but no point in having words to someone that feels bad enough about it already (plus me having to get up early of a Sunday morning the first time instead of nursing a hangover didn't help). Did it twice to keep the peace. But after that, it was made known to said mothers friend who hadn't manage to even think about paying - this is what I get paid for my "real" job, and I get paid Saturdays (x2) and Sundays (x3) - they're my rates by the way. Not a peep since

D.

RicardoSmith

Life too short for the grief you get from stupid muppets doing support.

Especially family members.

The Muppet

Work for nothing and you will never be short of work.

dangerman

i have the same problem, friends of the family ringing up. That's ok, they usually give me a bit of cash or i can just sort em out over the phone.

But when it goes beyond that, as in neighbours of friends of neighbours of friends of friends of the family or whatever, when they ring I just say straight out 'i charge 40 euro an hour.'

This makes it worthwhile to sit reinstalling windows 98 for 3 hours.

To be honest, its better this way. a) It means you're providing a proper service so if you do a good job they should pay you anyway and b) they won't have you round the house everytime they close without saving, they'll actually work it out cause they know you cost money as opposed to just being their bitch.

RicardoSmith

I hope you don't

a) install 98
and
b) take 3 hours to do it...

dangerman

RicardoSmith wrote:

I hope you don't

a) install 98
and
b) take 3 hours to do it...

lol, ...twas the last friendly job i did. i showed up, the computer is about 4-5 years old and *covered* in spyware & viruses, I recommended he just zap and reinstall, he goes oh no i want to keep everything...sat there clearing it all out, took ages on dial-up getting all the removal tools etc.

after a while the wife comes in and goes, just wipe the whole damn thing will you. so i said yes mam and off i went.

pickarooney

I have trouble charging people (always help family for free, it's the least I can do) as I'm never sure if I'll be able to fix the problem. The people that ask me tend to not have a clue what's goign on and want everything done as cheaply as possible - hence asking the nice neighbour chap. I used to get them to mind my cat when I was away in return, but then their dog killed her. They haven't asked me since, but I wouldn't recommend it as a solution

talos

but then their dog killed her

I'm very very sorry for your cat.

Farls

I used to do odd simple jobs like set up a net connection/install a printer for friends/family normally for free or maybe get 20 cuid and a cup of tea. Went on from there to start building computers for ppl etc.

Eventually last year i got competely sick of doing support for these pc's, i mean its not my problem if you don't update the virus software and get a virus, or if you don't understand how to use nero properly??? Or want me to make things easier to use like make a special euro key on the keyboard.

These were the kind of calls i was getting so i said fcuk it, i wasn't really making much money off these muppets, so i just stopped answering the phone to them. Btw, they EXPECTED support to be free.

So one or two of them got my house number, rang it left a voice message for me giving out that i haven't answered them.

I'm not going to bother ringing anyone back wasting my credit now but i decided a few weeks ago that anyone who rings get's the €60 an hr treatment + parts + travelling expenses.

Btw, i remember reading the same sort of thread a few years ago in the old Technology forum. Regarding how much you should charge people.

I'm at the conclusion where the more you charge the better job people think your doing for them.

Farlz

Farls

Actually,

An idea i had a while back when i started getting work sorting out a load of self builds that some other young lad done was, if i got his number he could look after my nagging customers and i could look after his. Partnership here would work well cuz you'd never have to work for friends/family again. And you could make a bomb.

Farlz

DonkeyStyle \o/

Farls wrote:

An idea i had a while back when i started getting work sorting out a load of self builds that some other young lad done was, if i got his number he could look after my nagging customers and i could look after his. Partnership here would work well cuz you'd never have to work for friends/family again. And you could make a bomb.

Hmm how would you broach that to the family/friends?
"Hi, I know you want to deal with me because you think I'll do you a free favour... instead, here's a number for this guy I know... he charges €x.xx an hour."
It's an interesting idea though
Although I reckon if I'd the balls to say that to people I could just as easily name my price beforehand.

Of course an ideal solution (which I've seen used before) is to convince these people you don't know how to fix their problem and are generally clueless... they probably wouldn't bother asking again... damn ego won't let me though

Farls

Well the way i would go around that idea is to just say that your very busy at the moment with a backlog of jobs and decided to team up with a fellow entrepreneur so IF you still want said job done he will have to take care of it at his rates.

I know saying you haven't a notion how to do anything would solve the problem but currently i have a very good reputation at home for being tech minded and with word spreading the way it does here, this could help you when it comes to interview situations etc.

eg. I recently done a job for the mother of a girl who works in HR in a large company i am considering looking for work with. So it might help there.

Anyway the hardest thing of the whole lot is not letting people take advantage of you. There's helping a friend out and there's nixers learn the difference.

Farlz

DonkeyStyle \o/

I find with most of the people I'm helping - the lines are a little blurred... eg. a cousin who you haven't heard from in months suddenly shows up acting like your best buddy, then comes "...oh and by the way, I have a PC problem.", then you won't see them again until their next problem... not exactly a friend, but not someone I can easily tell to shove it either.
I think it's a lack of confidence/self-worth issue of mine... even when I know someone's just pouring it on, I somehow still succumb to it!

Although I'm now a hardass when it comes to this crap.
As the Americans would put it "money talks, bullshít walks", I never really liked this saying until the last few months... now it's become a mantra of mine
Refusing to help freeloaders feels quite liberating now, feels like I've just kicked the school-yard bully square in the nuts.

Thanks for the replies guys, definitely food for thought.