Should Ireland Ban Hunting?

omnicorp

Since there's a lot of controversy going on in Britain, Should the Republic ban Hunting?

I think so, It's a cruel barbarous "sport".

It's not exactly pest control, think about how a troop of hunters on horseback riding through your fields would affect the flocks.

I don't know if its fun, I've (gladly) never gone hunting but please, can people give me a good reason as to why the Government should not ban hunting?

A Dub in Glasgo

Definitely

FX Meister

I think they should. And it's only going to increase here when the ban comes into effect in the U.K.

omnicorp

FX Meister wrote:

I think they should. And it's only going to increase here when the ban comes into effect in the U.K.

yes, but will the ban come into effect in Britain?

A Dub in Glasgo

I certainly believe the ban will come into effect here. The pro-hunting lobby can carry out all sorts of stunts but it will not make a bit of difference.

bonkey

omnicorp wrote:

Since there's a lot of controversy going on in Britain, Should the Republic ban Hunting?

Which type, or all forms of hunting?

jc

Ivan

I love how people have a problem with Dogs killing Foxes, a perfectly natural (although rigged to be that way) occurence. And yet continue on, oblivious to millions of chickens being kept in cold dark warehouses for up to 8 - 16 months. All so you can have some nice chicken Dinner. Dont get me started on cows.

I'm not a fan of hunting, nor am I a fan of animals being torn apart by other animals for human enjoyment. Tbh, I fail to see the point in it, but if your going to beginning fixing inadequacys in Irish law, wrt cruelty to animals, start in the right place.

Villain

Hunting??? You really need explain yourself better, I have gone hunting many times in the past however it was only ever with a loaded Gun, and the kill was both necessary and quick, i.e shooting foxes that like to take wee little lambs.

BTW I believe the ban in the UK only covers England and Wales, Scotland is not included, but I could be wrong on that.

logic1

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64257

.logic.

FX Meister

Ivan wrote:

I'm not a fan of hunting, nor am I a fan of animals being torn apart by other animals for human enjoyment. Tbh, I fail to see the point in it, but if your going to beginning fixing inadequacys in Irish law, wrt cruelty to animals, start in the right place.

I already have, I'm a vegan.

JW123

No

Fox Hunting? Definetly. Other forms, depends on how barbaric they are.

Gurgle

irish1 wrote:

Hunting??? You really need explain yourself better, I have gone hunting many times in the past however it was only ever with a loaded Gun, and the kill was both necessary and quick, i.e shooting foxes that like to take wee little lambs.

Thats not 'sport' hunting, thats protecting your property.

By pure co-incidence the people who like to go hunting for fun tend to come from wealthy families. Wealthy families tend to run businesses. Businesses tend to make political donations. Politicians tend to lean in favour of people who make political donations.

So, yes imo it should be banned as a 'sport' and no its not going to happen.

matrim

And yet continue on, oblivious to millions of chickens being kept in cold dark warehouses for up to 8 - 16 months. All so you can have some nice chicken Dinner. Dont get me started on cows.

If you make that 6-8 weeks you are more on the mark

fiacha

Gurgle wrote:

Thats not 'sport' hunting, thats protecting your property.

By pure co-incidence the people who like to go hunting for fun tend to come from wealthy families. Wealthy families tend to run businesses. Businesses tend to make political donations. Politicians tend to lean in favour of people who make political donations.

So, yes imo it should be banned as a 'sport' and no its not going to happen.

not the case in ireland i'm afraid. hunt followers (on horse or foot) come from many different backgrounds and "classes".

I have follwed hunts on foot in the past, and have seen the fox being killed by the hounds. In all the cases I witnessed the fox was killed within seconds by the first dog. The animal was dead before the pack tore it apart. However, there is no arguing the fact that the animal was chased for long periods which will cause huge amounts of stress.

altough I beleive that fox numbers need to be controlled (along with other predators link the mink), I do not support hunting with horse and hounds. It's much easier to do with a rifle or shotgun. because the animal is stalked or flushed and then shot, there is much less suffering involved.


ban it for the right reasons, not as a political gesture.

Sleepy

I think Bob Geldof made a very valid statement on this issue on his father for justice program on C4. At present, the family law courts are incredibly biased towards women, often barring perfectly decent fathers from seeing their children. Yet instead of looking at this issue (or probably a couple of hundred other equally or more important issues than father's rights) they choose to look at fox hunting. Is it really right for politicians to prioritise the legality of hunting over the rights of a father to see his children? I think not.

Gurgle

Ivan wrote:

I love how people have a problem with Dogs killing Foxes, a perfectly natural (although rigged to be that way) occurence. And yet continue on, oblivious to millions of chickens being kept in cold dark warehouses for up to 8 - 16 months. All so you can have some nice chicken Dinner. Dont get me started on cows.

I'm not a fan of hunting, nor am I a fan of animals being torn apart by other animals for human enjoyment. Tbh, I fail to see the point in it, but if your going to beginning fixing inadequacys in Irish law, wrt cruelty to animals, start in the right place.

You think that in the wild, dogs get together in packs and go out hunting for foxes ?
For fun ?
Is this the same world where monty-python style sabre-toothed bunnies hunt deer ?

People letting dogs kill foxes for their pleasure - wrong
Foxes are indiginous wild animals. They are as intelligent as domestic dogs, they hunt for food, they protect their young. If they aren't killing your lambs or chickens, there is no reason to kill them.

Battery farming - neccessary
Chickens as we know them are not a naturally occurring beastie. They are the result of centuries of selective breeding to make them heavier and quicker to mature, they have a brain the size of a marble and are at most marginally aware of the difference between a cage with grain on the floor and an outdoor run with grain on the ground. The difference being that its warmer in the shed. They are food with feathers.

FX Meister

Just because they have small brains does not mean it's okay to keep them couped up in cages. They still feel pain like most other living things.

Ivan

matrim wrote:

If you make that 6-8 weeks you are more on the mark

Err, typo on my part. Meant to be 8 to 16 weeks. 8 for bred chickens and 16 for normal...

And Gurgle... yes, I think dogs go around in packs, in the wild and hunt for whatever they can, be it for foxes or whatever.

No, I dont think they do it for fun, but why you would think that, I dont know.

In fairness, I dont think being a vegan helps improve the situation with animal cruelty in the food industry. Its buying products that have treated animals morally, in your supermarket. This shows that the trend is to put animal treatment before a few extra quid. And as demand goes up, cost will go down.

omnicorp

there's a difference between trohy hunting and hunting for food.
One is an unesaserry sport, the other, circle of life

Ivan

omnicorp wrote:

there's a difference between trohy hunting and hunting for food.
One is an unesaserry sport, the other, circle of life

Surely, its the manner in which animals are killed during blood sports that is the problem.
Which means if you think its more important than the way animals are treated for food you're being hypocritical.
They are killed at the end of either process, but one tortures animals for weeks on end, with end the slow, agonising relief for mans sadistic hunger.
While the other, forces dogs to carry out a scenario, they would carry out, anyway, were they in the wild. On another animal which is a cute and cuddly pest at best and a killer of sheep and ruiner of peoples livelihoods at worst. All in the space of a few hours.

omnicorp

Ok, I mean having animals killed HUMANELY for food, but.... Hunting is pointless, we get a kick out of killing a poor fox.

Ivan

And thats what I'm getting at, most animals aren't killed humanely for food, hence the problem. People arent aware of this and think we need to start with Fox Hunting. Its basically the more visible of two evils and so the first target.

You keep saying its just because of the "kick". Hunting doesnt always involve dogs, so its not always for the kick. And even when it is dogs, its sometimes just because its the most effective technique.

omnicorp

well, get out those placards Ivan Von Animalrightsnik

Ivan

This isnt really about me, its about funnelling you/the thread starters energies, in the right place. I'm just too lathargic... Also I think your a blatant troll and I wanted to play along for a bit.

FX Meister

Ivan wrote:

In fairness, I dont think being a vegan helps improve the situation with animal cruelty in the food industry. Its buying products that have treated animals morally, in your supermarket. This shows that the trend is to put animal treatment before a few extra quid. And as demand goes up, cost will go down.

You have lost me here, and correct me if I'm taking your comment wrong. You're saying that being a vegan is buying products that have treated animals morally. By this do you mean products that do not rely on any meat production? Being vegan is not to put animal treatment before anything, it is to abstain from animal products no matter what they are. Sure it doesn't help the animals that other people are going to eat, and it isn't going to make a difference to their treatment. It is my way of not being a part of a culture that treats animals this way.

arcadegame2004

There is more than one answer to this question ie a straight yes or no is inadequate in respect of the complexities of dealing with this in the right way, in my opinion.

Ban stag-hunting. Deer are close to being wiped out in this country and this hunting is only hastening that process. When I was small I lived in a rural area and we had a few ducks and hens and I don't ever recall seeing a deer jumping over our fence to kill them!

Foxes, however, are another matter. They are a predator of poultry. As such, their numbers need to controlled. But that does not excuse barbarity. Just shoot foxes you intend to control (or take them into captivity) but no more of these gut-wrenching scenes of foxes being thrown to a pack of dogs before being ripped to shreds. Hunters that use such barbaric methods are beneath contempt as far as I am concerned, and deserve the attention they get from hunt-saboteurs. We need laws to outlaw cruel practices in hunting.

elivsvonchiaing

One pro-hunting lobby argument is that it is only the fox that is over the hill is ever caught. I'm inclined to believe this as I've come to believe after over 20 years driving that canines indulge in suicide.

I've seen 4 or 5 elderly dogs just sitting facing in the wrong direction in the middle of the road to convince me of this...

If every rabbit I caught managed to wriggle out of my gummy jaws I think I would top myself if I were a fox.

There is no academic evidence for canine suicide so by all means laugh at me - however, if you have similar experiences PLEASE back me up here!

I state this seriously. Twice I've had a fox run out in front of me. I've never hit him/her. But on one occasion - the next day I saw it's carcass on the same road.

I'm actually in favour of this hunting argument. Better to be ripped apart by hounds than to be starved to death.

Think about it! If you are a vegan, for example, you can't seriously think that it is better for a fox to starve to death than to be ripped apart by hounds? The natural world exist apart from you. It is important to remember this. I know this sounds nauseating to most of you - but I've had to explain to friends who were not quite as enlightened as some of you.

(HTF they don't recognize me or I'll be on the barbee tomorrow night )

Granted the choices are stark and unpopular. But an unemmotional choice needs to be made here...

This choice needs to be made on facts which I don't have. I "believe" fox-hunting is a net good- thing- based upon my own observations and no facts. Facts are needed here.

All said and done I know that battery chicken farming is something that should be addressed first - we all know this. I post no links 'cos you'll find them immediately. For animal rights this surely has to get priority over fox hunting.

Gurgle

Hunting and killing are essential parts of the natural order of things - if you're hunting animals who's position on the food chain is food.

Like chickens, rabbits, cows, pigs, deer etc.( Of course we shouldn't be hunting deer, they're getting too scarce.)

The carnivores tend to be the smarter animals, probably due to the need to form some sort of plan when hunting.

The mobile-food animals don't have any such need.
They're much dumber.
(try to teach a lamb to play fetch)

Its impossible to know to what extent any animal is aware of its environment, it does seem reasonable (to me at least) that that would probably depend largely on the animal's intelligence.

omnicorp

makes sense, I amn't opposing hunting for food, just hunting for fun.
Try put that in the food chain

Paddy20

Fox hunting Imho is wrong. It should be banned. Thats all I have to say before I start on those who practise it :mad:

omnicorp

Well, then start,
would my enviromentally friendly Yam help?

logic1

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Ban stag-hunting. Deer are close to being wiped out in this country and this hunting is only hastening that process.

This is not true. Infact there are an overpopulation of certain breeds which is why Coillte have a controlled cull on forestries on a yearly basis.

Red deer in Kerry however are protected. All other breeds are overpopulated. Please research before spouting bull****.

.logic.

omnicorp

oh, so the fact that there is an overpopulation of humans mean that we can have a controlled cull of humans every year?

Sparks

No, but we can feed all the humans omni. If you don't cull deer herds, then more deer die than would have been culled, and through starvation which is a far less pleasant death; and the rest of the herd are left in far poorer health. Now, if we could turn over the entire countryside to them, I'm sure the herds could be larger; but then, we'd lose arable land and then we might have to start culling the human herd!

omnicorp

makes sense.... sorta

elivsvonchiaing

Paddy20 wrote:

Fox hunting Imho is wrong. It should be banned. Thats all I have to say before I start on those who practise it :mad:

I am poor never had a pony as a kid, never ridden a horse in my life - yet I still think this should be allowed. I believe much of this argument is let get these rich bastards!

Seriously, before mankind toothless foxes were rapidly made less miserable by the Hibernian wolf (extinct since c1600 - was never good at history).

While hunting foxes is barbaric - I still believe it is more humane than what nature itself offers.

Ivan

FX Meister wrote:

You have lost me here, and correct me if I'm taking your comment wrong. You're saying that being a vegan is buying products that have treated animals morally. By this do you mean products that do not rely on any meat production? Being vegan is not to put animal treatment before anything, it is to abstain from animal products no matter what they are. Sure it doesn't help the animals that other people are going to eat, and it isn't going to make a difference to their treatment. It is my way of not being a part of a culture that treats animals this way.

Sorry, I worded that badly.
What I mean is that being a vegan doesnt improve the animal cruelty situation. Your not part of the market that companies are aiming for, so whether you prefer animals who have been treated morally or not, doesnt enter into it.

By buying animal products that have been treated morally, you are in fact, demonstrating that people will pay extra for that little piece of morallity.
Hence, being a vegan does not improve the situation.
Buying, free range, organic foods does.

omnicorp

yeah, but how do you know that "organic" animals haven't been treated badly?

unme

Hunting is as old as the animal kingdom itself. You can ban the actual 'hunt' for political reasons, or reasons of personal taste, but I'm afraid it will make little difference in the wider world of nature.

Sure a handful of foxes may live a little longer, before being eventually chewed up by a stray dog, or smacked by a car. The world will keep spinning and the natural battle of predator and prey will continue. I have some friends who see themselves as anti-hunt advocates, but in a part-time hobby kind of way. It goes with the diet coke nicely.

If you ban hunting on the basis that it is cruel, then you might also consider banning foxes from killing lambs, cats from killing mice, spiders from killing flys. A spell in a secure kennel for a dog that viciously attacks a furry bunny rabbit might let it know the dim view that modern man has of such nasty behaviour. Bad dog indeed.

By the way, I don't hunt.

Gurgle

unme wrote:

Hunting is as old as the animal kingdom itself. You can ban the actual 'hunt' for political reasons, or reasons of personal taste, but I'm afraid it will make little difference in the wider world of nature.

:rolleyes:
Hey, rape is as old as humanity.
Lets make it legal, cut out all this bull****. It happens anyway so why bother trying to prevent it. [/SARCASM(DUH!)]

unme

Gurgle wrote:

:
Hey, rape is as old as humanity.
Lets make it legal, cut out all this bull****. It happens anyway so why bother trying to prevent it.

Emm... No.

I don't agree with you there. Sorry.

That is a different topic altogether that bares no comparison to your view on rape. Sarcasm or smiley faces won't change that.

bonkey

unme wrote:

That is a different topic altogether that bares no comparison to your view on rape.

Yes, but the topic is whether or not we should ban hunting carried out by humans for sport, not whether or not animals killing other animals is a fact of life and nature.

So one could say that your view is on a different topic altogether, which I would hazard was the point being made (and which you missed).

jc

Paddy20

Unme,

I really do wish that Boards.ie, had an award for the stupidest post of the year, as voted by it's members.

As your post would most certainly be a front runner.

Have a nice day.



P.

omnicorp

unme wrote:

Hunting is as old as the animal kingdom itself. You can ban the actual 'hunt' for political reasons, or reasons of personal taste, but I'm afraid it will make little difference in the wider world of nature.

Sure a handful of foxes may live a little longer, before being eventually chewed up by a stray dog, or smacked by a car. The world will keep spinning and the natural battle of predator and prey will continue. I have some friends who see themselves as anti-hunt advocates, but in a part-time hobby kind of way. It goes with the diet coke nicely.

If you ban hunting on the basis that it is cruel, then you might also consider banning foxes from killing lambs, cats from killing mice, spiders from killing flys. A spell in a secure kennel for a dog that viciously attacks a furry bunny rabbit might let it know the dim view that modern man has of such nasty behaviour. Bad dog indeed.

By the way, I don't hunt.

I ban it on the basis that it is annescarserily cruel.
It would be different if it were for foodular reasons.

unme

Paddy20 wrote:

Unme,

I really do wish that Boards.ie, had an award for the stupidest post of the year, as voted by it's members.

As your post would most certainly be a front runner.

Have a nice day.



P.

If you don't like a post, post an argument that expresses your view on the topic. Simply attempting to insult hardly makes your post look any better.

I'm having a nice day.

unme

omnicorp wrote:

I ban it on the basis that it is annescarserily cruel.
It would be different if it were for foodular reasons.

Yes, you do have a point.

omnicorp

so you should, here have a rep. point.
Keep up the good work in controversial views.

But, has anyone ever heard a good reason to go trophy hunting?
The best I heard was "I like it and who cares about those f*cking deer?"
terrible.
How would s/he feel if a deer started hunting him for fun?

unme

bonkey wrote:

Yes, but the topic is whether or not we should ban hunting carried out by humans for sport, not whether or not animals killing other animals is a fact of life and nature.

So one could say that your view is on a different topic altogether, which I would hazard was the point being made (and which you missed).

jc

Of course I mentioned hunting in my post, and went on to say how the killing of one animal by another occurs naturally everyday in nature. (That is an explicit argument used my many as a justification for their 'sport'). I just chose to make my argument in a not too serious manner in the hope it would attract some debate.

Your opinion may differ from mine and that is fine with me - we can both be on-topic and still look at it from different angles. If someone wanted to discuss rape, then another thread might have been a better place to bring it up.

The points raised by others about cruelty, etc. are valid and fair. I do broadly agree with them, and I personally wouldn't take part in hunts for similar reasons. Should they be banned? That is a question that needs to be addressed by more than a simple fox-hunting-is-wrong statement.

enda1

Why do people impart human emotions on animals? People saying that the foxes get "stressed" when being chased and the usual scared and worried emotions people talk about. This is just another animal being killed.
Whether we kill for sport or fun is irrelevant. We do not NEED to eat meat. Neither do we NEED to kill for fun. But both are enjoyed by us so enjoy your place at the top of the food chain and at the peak of intelectual evolution!

gandalf

Paddy you don't bother to post here for ages then you crawl out from whatever stone you are hiding under and post tripe like this. Either show this chap where you disagree with his point of view or don't bother posting here again !!!!

Paddy20 wrote:

Unme,

I really do wish that Boards.ie, had an award for the stupidest post of the year, as voted by it's members.

As your post would most certainly be a front runner.

Have a nice day.



P.