Health Insurance

dragona

What happens if you dont have it?Say you go to the doc and pay yourE40 or whatever and he finds a lump which needs to be checked out - so he refers you to a specialist,somehow you rustle up the E100 or so for that, and say you need chemotherapy or radiation or other treatment. BUT you are not unemployed,no medical card but just living on a low income.
Do you still get treated? Would you be denied treatment if you cannot afford to pay?
Im talking life threatening condition, perhaps cancer.

Xterminator

The big delay seems to be getting to see the consultant.

Once the consultant sees you, if you had an urgent need they could move fast enough.

So the solution usually is be to see the consultant privately.

Getting back to your question on health insurance, i just cancelled my Bupa subscription after 3 years, as the increases were huge and the majority of my needs were for GP, prescription medicine, etc, none of which was really covered.

Hence i am thinking taking a HSA cover, where you get back half of what your treatment costs, to a certain max level determined by your weekly/monthly contribution.

I know its gas but just going to see your GP now is an expense that makes you hesitte, and say, if i lave it a day or two it might get better! And thats a unhealthy situation!

X

miniperson

Totally agree with you there when you say:

"I know its gas but just going to see your GP now is an expense that makes you hesitate, and say, if i leave it a day or two it might get better! And thats a unhealthy situation!"

Its a sad sad situation. To tell a story, I have a rash on my stomach for the past few weeks. I am on a very basic income yet do not qualify for any health benefits.

I have the attitude above "leave it a bit and it might go away" cause basically I can't afford to visit the doc at €40 a pop.

A foreign friend of mine noticed me scratching etc, not the nicest thing, and pleaded with me to go to the doc. I was like "I'll wait until my suppy of perscription medication (that I have to take for something else) runs out so I can kill 2 birds with one stone.

They were going mad cause in their country, if you even stubb your toe you can go to the doctor anytime for free.

To the original poster, I imagine if you have no health cover, if something more serious was found and lets say you needed surgery, as far as I know you have to foot the bill.

Makes me sick to think that there is someone out there who is sick and needs attention yet cant get the proper treatment cause medical insurance is too high to pay on a basic wage.

Does Bertie ever read boards? He or any other Fianna Fail representative will never receive a vote off me again.

pickarooney

FFS, is there any hope the EU would implement obligatory health insurance across the board instead of pïssing about with a common defence policy?
Is Ireland ever even going to try to catch up on Europe in terms of looking after its citizens? Sorry for going tangental, but that just annoys me.

Imposter

pickarooney wrote:

FFS, is there any hope the EU would implement obligatory health insurance across the board instead of pïssing about with a common defence policy?

Why would they? As you say, it's Ireland that's the probelm not most of Europe.

I can go to doctors (including specialists) and dentists (some dental treatments are excluded) and it costs about 3€ every quarter IF I visit one of them. If a doctor refers me to a specialist I don't pay another 3€ but if I go of my own accord I do. Prescriptions costs more or less about 3€ for each item too. The reason I can get this level of service here though is that I pay about 15% social insurance. That might seem a lot but I don't really mind as you can see what you get from it. Pensions are also linked to your wages as is unemployment monies so most people will see at least some of it back. Compare that to PRSI contributions (employer as well) in Ireland and the state of the health 'service', the pension system and unemployment allowances and you realise how sh1t the situation in Ireland is.

pickarooney

I know Ireland is the problem, but the EU sees fit to set standards on economic, defence, human rights issues etc. so why not health?

Imposter

If the EU were to lay down guidelines on health what benchmark would they take?

I've no problem paying my social insurance here because I can see the good service that it pays for. Compare that to Ireland and i'd either prefer to pay a lot more insurance for a good service or no insurance. I think the service is not value for money in Ireland at the moment. Now where does the EU place the standard? Will this cause the Austrian, French, German systems to get worse? Will the people of those countries like it? Will it cause Irish taxes to be risen? Would Irish people like that?

As far as I can see the EU can say that this is a minimum health standard you need to have but they can't make that mark too high or they are messing with the tax rates in some countries. It's the same argument that you get when people talk about harmonizing all taxes across the EU. It will benifit some but in general countries won't be able to run their countries as they see fit which is not good imo.

seamus

As Xterminator says, one of the big problems is the cinsultant stage. Consultants get more money for private patients, so they prioritise them. They are obliged to see a certain amount of public patients for every x private patients they see, but in reality it should be 1:1. However, no Government in the last 40 years has had the balls to stand up to the consultants and bring in any meaningful legislation.

Insurance in this country is a joke. At one end of the scale, car insurance is heavily biased towards age, and young people are made pay ridiculous amounts, and at the other end of the scale, health insurance is a flat fee where, once again, young and healthy people are screwed over.

I get my health insurance through a work benefits scheme, so I have a semi private package from BUPA. I'm 22, male, healthy, no injuries, no illnesses, no allergies, no illness tendencies. I don't drink too much, I only have one sexual partner, I don't smoke, I haven't been to a doctor in 6 years (OK, not a good thing, but I haven't had a need to go in 6 years). My premium is €450 per year. That's €450 of pure profit that BUPA make from me.

It's a joke.

I don't think health insurance is a joke.
One may think it's overpriced but what price do you put on it when you need it?

If your house burns down, you may have been paying insurance for 10 years without a claim but you'd be in a far, far worse state if you were left with a mortgage, and no roof over your head because you thought you could skimp on insurance.

If you can afford any kind of insurance, it's a false ecomomy in my view to be without it.
My Mum was diagnosed with cancer about two and a half years ago.I happened to be paying for her VHI at plan E. She saw a specialist within 24 hours and was receiving treatment within a week.
She took bad about a month ago and was rushed to A+E in a dublin hospital on a saturday night where she spent 36 hours on a trolley because they had no bed.
My mum had to listen to all the usual weekend A+E caper roaring and shouting , drunks etc for that time.
First thing monday morning I phoned her specialist who arranged a bed for her in the Blackrock clinic and the ambulance transfer straight away.

For that service I pay €1500 annually-cheap at half the price, I could easily have spent it on booze.
Incidentally I reckon I spend alot more via my taxes and social insurance on the public health service .
My mum would probably be dead now if she had to go on a medical cards 12 month waiting list for a consultants appointment.
Says a lot doesn't it.

CathyMoran

Yes, I agree - health insurance makes a difference. My mum is on hospital at the moment and she had to go for tests to another hospital - she was there and back in 3 hours as her health insurance paid for a private ambulance. Another person in the there was there all day. That is only one of the differences that health insurance has made. My parents are on B options but after seeing all the hospitals in the past 6 weeks I have upgraded mine to D Options - is too late for my mum at the moment to upgrade her as there is a wait on pre-existing medical conditions but if you can afford it get health insurance.

eth0_

I really miss living in Belfast where I could see a Doctor the same day I rang for an appointment, for FREE, and get prescription drugs for FREE or sometimes a few pounds.
I have the 2nd highest VHI plan, and my GP suspects I have a fairly serious condition but needs to refer me to a consultant for an ultrasound scan. Grand, I thought, i'll be covered by VHI. NO! VHI will only cover you if you're going to die from your condition/suspected condition. So now I have to wait 6 months for an appointment, which will cost 150 euro, then be sent for a scan, which is 4-500 euro (for a fscking ultrasound scan, not an MRI!), then go BACK to the consultant for him/her to interpret the scan, that's another 150 euro please!

I'm just going to wait until I move back to the UK next year before I do anything about it, there's no way i'm paying 800 euro for such a basic thing.

CathyMoran

I have to go for an MRI - the waiting list is about 2 years, with VHI, but without it I am not sure that they would even do the test.

As far as I can recall an MRI will be covered by VHI/BUPA once it is a specialist that details a medical reason for the scan.

They won't cover a situation where a GP for instance sends you for an MRI as part of a general medical check up - You need to have seen a consultant first who requires that you have the scan.

The_Conductor

Imposter wrote:

Why would they? As you say, it's Ireland that's the probelm not most of Europe.

I can go to doctors (including specialists) and dentists (some dental treatments are excluded) and it costs about 3€ every quarter IF I visit one of them. If a doctor refers me to a specialist I don't pay another 3€ but if I go of my own accord I do. Prescriptions costs more or less about 3€ for each item too. The reason I can get this level of service here though is that I pay about 15% social insurance. That might seem a lot but I don't really mind as you can see what you get from it. Pensions are also linked to your wages as is unemployment monies so most people will see at least some of it back. Compare that to PRSI contributions (employer as well) in Ireland and the state of the health 'service', the pension system and unemployment allowances and you realise how sh1t the situation in Ireland is.

Where are you getting these services at 3 Euro per quarter from?

Here- I suffer from a long term chronic medical condition. I must pay 78 Euro per month for prescriptions. If I visit a GP its 40 Euro (on average 1 an month). If I visit a consultant its 200 Euro (on average once a year). Dental care costs me nada- because my teeth are fine. Opticians cost about Euro 150 per year (after PRSI contribution). VHI costs me about 800 Euro per year. In general this amounts to in excess of over 3000 Euro AFTER income per annum. I pay 3.5% PRSI, on top of income tax and the bewildering array of miscellaneous stealth taxes that we all pay (which are far higher than your 15% health levy). We have the 3rd highest personal taxation of workers of any country in Europe (including Scandinavia). I feel seriously riled.

Yes, I'm another of the brigade who put off going to the doctor, getting monthly medication, going to the consultant on an annual basis- because I cannot afford it.

I'm paying tax on the higher band, along with most of the rest of the country. As Hamlett rather unkindly put it- "Something rotten in the state of Denmark........" (or Ireland even....)

This is stupid. All I have to do is look forward to retiring in 35 years time. And even then, I cant look forward to retiring in Ireland......

jd

seamus wrote:

My premium is €450 per year. That's €450 of pure profit that BUPA make from me.

So how much of a premium should you pay?. And if you were 65, what would be a fair premium?

jd

Earthman wrote:

As far as I can recall an MRI will be covered by VHI/BUPA once it is a specialist that details a medical reason for the scan.

They won't cover a situation where a GP for instance sends you for an MRI as part of a general medical check up - You need to have seen a consultant first who requires that you have the scan.

I needed an MRI, but the GP had to refer me to a consultant first, whoi then referred me to the clinic. The VHI paid in this instance

jd

CathyMoran wrote:

I have to go for an MRI - the waiting list is about 2 years, with VHI, but without it I am not sure that they would even do the test.

You sure about that- I didn't have to wait that long last year.

Imposter

smccarrick wrote:

Where are you getting these services at 3 Euro per quarter from?

...
In general this amounts to in excess of over 3000 Euro AFTER income per annum. I pay 3.5% PRSI, on top of income tax and the bewildering array of miscellaneous stealth taxes that we all pay (which are far higher than your 15% health levy). We have the 3rd highest personal taxation of workers of any country in Europe (including Scandinavia). I feel seriously riled.

This is in Austria.
I pay income tax as well. About one third of my wages dissappears every month between tax and social insurance. If you could see my take home pay each month you'd laugh at it, if comparing it to irish salaries. However when you factor in all the services and stuff that these taxes pay for, as well as the cost of everything from car insurance, to drinking, smoking and other extra curicular expenses then the system in Ireland is where you direct your laughter. Stealth taxes also exist here but are not identical.

dragona

Well this is all very interesting but the reason I posted is because
I DO have something very dodgy which I suspect could be Not Good(after a lot of internet research)
I can just about afford E40 to go and see the doc but have a horrible suspicion that he will want me to go and get it checked out but even so I have delayed it still for a couple of months
I will under no circumstances be able to afford any treatment if it is going to cost an arm and a leg, as I can not afford health insurance
I have a feeling I will just be left to meet my fate if I can not pay
As far as I understand it if you do not have the money, and you are sick, you die
Which is what is putting me off going to the doctor

secret_squirrel

So you're putting of going to the doctors just because you think you might need to see a specialist?

Regardless of this you need to get to the quacks NOW. How much stress is thinking about this causing?
Cross the consultant bridge when and if you come to it.

Gordon

What secret squirrel said.

Goto doctor.

chump

dragona we have public health service in the country...
they ask you if you're insured, you say no, and you get treated as a public patient...

fair enough if you want to see the consultant privately, that will cost, but you can also see him through the hospital as a public patient...
doctors sign up every year to see a certain amount of public patients if they are aligned with a public hospital which most are...

just speak to your GP... people aren't going to not treat you because you can't afford insurance, this isn't the US