A serious issue or not?

GuanYin

Long time reader, first time poster:

I am posting this because a personally held belief of mine has been called into question, so its really something I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on, which makes it a personal issue for me.

I often partake in banter. Sometimes its in good spirits, othertimes one or the other party finds it more meaningful. My approach has always been if they are having a go at you, feel free to have a go back, but you attack the posts and not the poster.

This isn't what I want to talk about, its just background, so please no comments on this.

Now, sometimes someone who is taking things seriously will take racism into the slagging. Now I'm not easily offended (in fact I'm laying my cards out here saying I'm never offended) but I do have a strong belief that racism, victims of domestic abuse or rape, biggotry of any sort are not things you slag people about because they aren't things the person being slagged has any control over.

Recently someone intentionally made a racial slur which related to asians. It may seem rather innocuous it was a reference "fried rice" but I am of the opinion that there is no lesser or higher form of racism. That racist comments are about intent and not measure.

Its not something that is "wrong" with the person and its a stigma that a community as supposedly as "enlightened" as ours (and by which I mean we are by and large middle to upper class educated people) should learn to reject.

Its not even racist jokes, which I don't like, but am I perhaps slightly too stern in my value system in thinking that any racist jibe is pure ignorance and inexcusable? Should I lighten up towards racist jibes?

Beruthiel

syke wrote:

Its not even racist jokes, which I don't like, but am I perhaps slightly too stern in my value system in thinking that any racist jibe is pure ignorance and inexcusable? Should I lighten up towards racist jibes?

imo
there is a difference between racist jokes and personal comments on an individual person
we are all guilty of off colour jokes, some can be funny, so I don't see a huge harm in them
however
that is not the same as someone calling you a name to your face or on a thread on the tinternet - this I do not agree with, no matter what the circumstances
as far as I'm concerned you can slag someone to death over comments that they make, but once you start making personal comments on who they are and where they come from that is over the line and the attacker has lost any arguement they may have had. Attack the post and not the poster.

Zulu

Good question really. It's all fun and games until someone else hears it!
I guess it all depends on the person and context. We are in danger of being too PC.

I tend to let things slide if they're not meant in an offensive context, but pick up on them and shun them if they're a deliberate attack/meant to belittle/just rude.

For example: I wouldn't get bothered over some one cracking a joke/making a comment linking me being Irish to alcohol or stupidity. I would get offended or bothered if it a comment was made linking me to being scum/subhuman (ala the prejudice towards the Irish in England up until recent times)
ie: you drunken Irish paddy! wouldn't bother me.
you filthy Irish scum! would.

Am I making any sense?

GuanYin

Zulu wrote:

For example: I wouldn't get bothered over some one cracking a joke/making a comment linking me being Irish to alcohol or stupidity. I would get offended or bothered if it a comment was made linking me to being scum/subhuman (ala the prejudice towards the Irish in England up until recent times)
ie: you drunken Irish paddy! wouldn't bother me.
you filthy Irish scum! would.

Am I making any sense?

Yes, you are

I suppose for the sake of context, if someone made a comment about you like "what would you expect from a spud eater" or something along those lines.

ravenhead

I think in same cases people don't even realise that what they are saying is causing offence, I mean we're so used to slagged people when we're in general conversation that we really do think that there isn't a line on when it's inapproiate to do it.
I have no problem with a general 'ha ha laugh laugh your mother' kind of thing but I do really think that some poster's don't think before they comment on something & it can be quite hurtful for the person under attack, I know in this day & age it's a bit naive to think that we can be nice to each other all the time, but a little common uagh your courtesy can go along way ....

Trojan

I believe that there are many shades of gray here. For instance, a tongue in cheek remark made in banter to ones best friend of 20 years is a lot different than that to a complete stranger. I think that holds true for racist and other types remarks.

E.g. there is a lot of slagging amongst all the different counties of Ireland, and moreso between Dubliners and people from outside this area. Depending on your POV you may consider a Dub calling a countryperson a bogger or a redneck highly offensive, and vice versa about Jackeens. This may be a slightly different discussion than you are talking about, but I think the principles are similar.

The meaning of a message is determined by the recipient, not the sender. Communication is a delicate thing sometimes

logic1

I think it solely depends on the context. If I was of Asian descent (taken purely for ease of example) and I knew a "fried rice" comment had been made solely for the purpose of trolling or instigating a humorous response but I also knew for a fact that the poster was not in any way racist then it wouldn't bother me.

However if there was a darker undertone and hints of real racism involved I would be forced to take serious issue with it. In such a multi-racial environment these attitudes are more socially unacceptable than ever before.

.logic.

Iago

syke wrote:

Yes, you are

I suppose for the sake of context, if someone made a comment about you like "what would you expect from a spud eater" or something along those lines.

Even in that context you have to look at who is saying it and what their relationship with you is..

I don't approve of any racist comments, sure as a kid I made jokes that I thought were funny and got laughs, but as you mature you realise that they aren't that funny at all, and mostly in pretty bad taste.

If I was with friends and they were making racist comments (actually that wouldn't happen, because then we wouldn't be friends in the first place) I wouldn't be impressed at all, and I would take them to task on it.

If some of my friends called me a jackeen etc, that wouldn't bother me at all. If it was a stranger then I would probably take offense...

logic1

Damn you Al.

.logic.

GuanYin

logic1 wrote:

I think it solely depends on the context. If I was of Asian descent (taken purely for ease of example) and I knew a "fried rice" comment had been made solely for the purpose of trolling or instigating a humorous response but I also knew for a fact that the poster was not in any way racist then it wouldn't bother me.

However if there was a darker undertone and hints of real racism involved I would be forced to take serious issue with it. In such a multi-racial environment these attitudes are more socially unacceptable than ever before.

.logic.

Ah yes, but there lies the rub, while people use such racist slurs as a means of inciting reaction, you are unwittingly providing "real racists" with the tools and base to go about their business.

ie. while you participate in a system that suggests, jokingly or otherwise, that there is something "wrong" with not being white, or maybe more correctly that being black or asian is a humourous attribute, then you are reaffirming to the racists that what they are preaching has some inherent foundation among the population.

logic1

syke wrote:

ie. while you participate in a system that suggests, jokingly or otherwise, that there is something "wrong" with not being white, or maybe more correctly that being black or asian is a humourous attribute, then you are reaffirming to the racists that what they are preaching has some inherent foundation among the population.

But how far do you want to take political correctness? Not make fun of someones obviously **** hair cut because it implies there's something wrong with it? Not make fun of someone eating a bananna seductively because fruit has feelings too?

If there was stringent rules imposed on waht could and could not be deemed worthy of making jolly of the world would be a very boring place but in saying that the foundations for race related insults I'm sure do all date back to inherent hatred or fear of one race against another. I'm sure Vietnam and the precursor and post Wars played a large part in instilling general ideas of hatred into Westerners psyche.

What can we do about it now? There will always be a certain number of people that attach a stigma to other races and I'm sure there'll always be xenophobia. Would I stop making race related jokes to well known friends of mine because I see it as perpuating racism? Definately not, especially when they have no problem returning the favour, but if I was in the presence of people I didn't know and hadn't an understanding with I wouldn't make the same assumptions.

.logic.

Trojan

I don't know, that sounds to me like I need to have a V chip in my brain which downloads the latest "acceptable" PC phrases before breakfast, and zaps me if I'm about to use a word incorrectly... PC gone mad.

What about self-directed remarks? Am I "allowed" say "but sure I'm only a honkey!" ? Or is that offensive to the entire white population of the Earth?

I'm far from being a racist but I think that leads to a very boring planet.

Beruthiel

syke wrote:

while you participate in a system that suggests, jokingly or otherwise, that there is something "wrong" with not being white, or maybe more correctly that being black or asian is a humourous attribute, then you are reaffirming to the racists that what they are preaching has some inherent foundation among the population.

it may not even have anything to do with colour syke, I have to agree with logic
as you know my bloke is french, I am always calling him 'my frog' which he has no problem with
however
if an american republican called him a frog, well, he would be very upset indeedie

Trojan

Damn you Niall.

Trojan.

GuanYin

Trojan wrote:

you may consider a Dub calling a countryperson a bogger or a redneck highly offensive, and vice versa about Jackeens. This may be a slightly different discussion than you are talking about, but I think the principles are similar.

Gotta disagree, dubliners and countryfolk are equally guilty but at the end of the day, noone has ever died or been oppressed or mis-treated purely because they were from Dublin or the Country (if its happened it happened because the perpitrator was a psycho or just evil). Noone has ever seriously suggested that society or laws be altered to discriminate against them and certainly noone has ever seriously suggested that either should be excluded from a society.

In any case, the real question I'm asking is - do people think that slagging someone off about their race or maybe a medical condition is OK to be taken into banter.

The impression I get so far, is only between friends.

logic1

syke wrote:

Gotta disagree, dubliners and countryfolk are equally guilty but at the end of the day, noone has ever died or been oppressed or mis-treated purely because they were from Dublin or the Country (if its happened it happened because the perpitrator was a psycho or just evil). Noone has ever seriously suggested that society or laws be altered to discriminate against them and certainly noone has ever seriously suggested that either should be excluded from a society.

Well if you substitute the 'Dublin and Country' analogy with an Irish Race analogy then persecution and discrimination simply based on Race does come into play.

http://ny.essortment.com/racialformation_rspk.htm

There was in fact only one essential difference between the Irish and the black, skin color.

So implying that it's simply a skin colour issue IMO doesn't hold any water.

.logic.

Trojan

syke wrote:

Gotta disagree, dubliners and countryfolk are equally guilty but at the end of the day, noone has ever died or been oppressed or mis-treated purely because they were from Dublin or the Country (if its happened it happened because the perpitrator was a psycho or just evil). Noone has ever seriously suggested that society or laws be altered to discriminate against them and certainly noone has ever seriously suggested that either should be excluded from a society.

Why should this form of discrimination against a people, in this example based on their place of origin (and characterised by their accents generally), be any less valid simply because there has been less oppression?

Surely there's no scale saying "well, you haven't been oppressed enough, so you're fair game for these comments"? I think that's double standards.

By the by, without referring to principal sources or having relevant qualifications in the field, we cannot be certain that there has been no oppression based on this sort of discrimination.

In fact, thinking about this now - speaking from my experience as someone who moved from Dublin to Mayo at the age of 11, there was quite a lot of discrimination against me within my peer group.

Doodee

syke wrote:

Gotta disagree, dubliners and countryfolk are equally guilty but at the end of the day, noone has ever died or been oppressed or mis-treated purely because they were from Dublin or the Country (if its happened it happened because the perpitrator was a psycho or just evil). Noone has ever seriously suggested that society or laws be altered to discriminate against them and certainly noone has ever seriously suggested that either should be excluded from a society.

In any case, the real question I'm asking is - do people think that slagging someone off about their race or maybe a medical condition is OK to be taken into banter.

The impression I get so far, is only between friends.

Never heard the phrase "To hell or to Connaught!" ??

You can't accuratly pick out what part of racial banter is actually a direct attack on the person or what is a harmless joke, especially on the internet.Simply because it is text on a screen.
You said earlier you part take in banter.
"My approach has always been if they are having a go at you, feel free to have a go back, but you attack the posts and not the poster."

that being said, some people are very self concious about what others say, even if its based on an opinion or not. It really depends on the maturity and also the upbrining of the character. However, to the other person it could symbol an attack on them, therefor they could retaliate in whatever means comes to them, weither its by having absaloutely no tact or brains and firing off a racial comment, or otherwise thinking up a great come back.

Its a very hard topic to judge just what is acceptable and what isn't as if laws were imposed then not only would the people, who the laws are written for, have to obied by them, but also the ones acting on and protecting those laws.

As was said before, we are all guilty of a racial comment of some form or another.

simu

I don't like "jokes" about nationality/race at all. There are far better ways to make people laugh than by enforcing stupid and limiting stereotypes.

Zulu

syke wrote:

The impression I get so far, is only between friends.

Nail.... head.
I've a few friend, who I call outrageous things. They are cool about it. I would never call them these things within earshot of a similar person, as I'd be probably lynched.

Same way I'll tell a mate all about his sister/mother, but not a stranger.

Trojan

simu wrote:

I don't like "jokes" about nationality/race at all. There are far better ways to make people laugh than by enforcing stupid and limiting stereotypes.

You realise there's an entire branch of comedy/art called "caricature"?

By virture of the quotes around "jokes", I understand that your sense of humour is vastly different to mine - so be it. I do not, however, consider this humour either stupid or limiting except on some rare occasions (usually logic1s comments :rolleyes:).

Wouldn't the world be a fantastic place if we all had exactly the same opinions?

Zulu

simu wrote:

I don't like "jokes" about nationality/race at all. There are far better ways to make people laugh than by enforcing stupid and limiting stereotypes.

Fair enough - but you're missing out on some excellent jokes. ...plus joke are a good way to relieve social tensions, and highlighting bigotry in an non-confrontational way.

Doodee

maybe, but difference of opinion also makes it interesting.

Best way to silence a person making racial slurrs is to just ignore them. Only reason its done is to insult the person, and if it doesn't affect them then theres no point in doing it.

cajun_tiger

Ireland is developing a very large racial problem, not just from the long term nationals but from the non nationals as well people should joke about such thing's it just encourages it to be come something more. I just don't understand how people can hold so much against another human being just because of there heritage

Trojan

There appears to be two widely separated schools of thought on this matter - I guess it's each to their own.

To those who hold beliefs along the lines of Syke, Simu and cajun_tiger: be aware that not everyone who banters in this way is guaranteed to be a neo-Nazi, and also recall that Irish society has long had a of friendly slagging and joking (something I don't want to see changed by PC extremists), so don't get too offended.

And, we, the evil racism-spreading jokers (and yes, now I'm joking), we shall do our utmost to avoid any forms of humour in your presence!

(ooops, I just did)

[don't take this post too seriously or your lungs may explode]

][cEMAN**

syke wrote:

noone has ever died or been oppressed or mis-treated purely because they were from Dublin or the Country (if its happened it happened because the perpitrator was a psycho or just evil).

I have to disagree with you there. People get mis-treated and in some cases oppressed all the time based on various things, even as simple as where they're from. It doesn't mean that they're "psycho or just evil", but rather that they fear or hate differences. But even if they are "psycho or just evil" it that doesn't make them any different to people who base their comments in relation to country of origin rather the exact location within the country. It's all the same. It's just all about differences.

The fact that you're trying to rationalise this comment and then critisicing others for their opinion of what they deem acceptable, shows you might not be as PC as you might think.

But I agree that we can't go OTT on PC. The world of 1984 seems to draw closer each day though. It's scary to think what our children might face, but then they probably wouldn't notice the difference. We'll still be harping on about "In my day...".

Compare the current view of differences today, and compare to years ago. At least we stopped burning people at the stake.

cajun_tiger

Trojan wrote:

There appears to be two widely separated schools of thought on this matter - I guess it's each to their own.

To those who hold beliefs along the lines of Syke, Simu and cajun_tiger: be aware that not everyone who banters in this way is guaranteed to be a neo-Nazi, /QUOTE]this I can understand ,I guess I grew up without those type's of joke's around me so I don't see the funny humor of it and there for do not agree with it, I don't mean to put each person that make's a joke in to "( )" or offend anyone if that's what came across, and I apologize, but when I read them I get hurt even though there not directed at me in anyway. maybe I'm just sensitive but it's something I can't help.

Trojan

A thought on this subject: text based forms of communication are particularly prone to misconstrual and meaning can be completely twisted. Very dangerous.

GuanYin

Trojan wrote:

A thought on this subject: text based forms of communication are particularly prone to misconstrual and meaning can be completely twisted. Very dangerous.

What about when someone admits that they did indeed intend the comment as a racial slur?

simu

Trojan wrote:

To those who hold beliefs along the lines of Syke, Simu and cajun_tiger: be aware that not everyone who banters in this way is guaranteed to be a neo-Nazi, and also recall that Irish society has long had a of friendly slagging and joking (something I don't want to see changed by PC extremists), so don't get too offended.

I don't think all people who use these sorts of jokes are neo-Nazis and I'm not a PC extremist. I remember my own experiences of people making jokes about me being Irish and how I must drink a lot and be full of Catholic guilt blah, blah, blah when I was abroad and although these were not particularly offensive, I found them very tiresome and so, I try not to subject other people to the same thing.

Irish Angel

only thing I want to say is that many lads I've met or hang out with, everytime we ended up in a chinese or anywhere with asian working, they always seems to make joke out of the staff, and when I say to them dont be so horrible, and they mostly say "dont worry, they are harmless, what would you think they will do, nothing"

I dont know what everyone here thinks what that means but to me, I just love to slap them across the head! and for once, I was with some of my friends, a few boys, me and 2 girls, went in to this chinese after the club, as usual the boys started making jokes out of the staff english and how they dont understand, all of a sudden another chinese guy came out from the back, spoke very very good english, as if he was english, couldnt tell the different if i was talking to him on the phone, he start asked "was that just joke and are you guys gonna stop now or what?"
but they didnt stop, ended up having a fight with him! I think that was terrible!
why cant we just leave them alone? I do, at this stage I rather be with an asian, the reason of that is because I have not seen them started on my friends ever, and that guy was the first I have met that would stand up and defence the rest of them!

Hobart

syke wrote:

What about when someone admits that they did indeed intend the comment as a racial slur?

Well then they are not worthy of a reply. However, as pointed out earlier, text based communication systems are prone to misconstrual. If, for example, 2 posters started refeering to each other as "nigga". What assumption would we make? Would it be prudent to assume that they were non-caucasion(sp?) and communicating with each other as they would in person? Would it be proper to view thier use of the word as offensive? Are they taking the piss out of black people? It's a dangerous line to thread.

Gordon

syke wrote:

Long time reader, first time poster:
...
(in fact I'm laying my cards out here saying I'm never offended)

...
Should I lighten up towards racist jibes?

If you aren't offended then this isn't a Personal Issue to you, therefore this would belong in Humanities.

Don't you think?

Amz

Doodee wrote:

Never heard the phrase "To hell or to Connaught!" ??

Wasn't that phrase originally used by Cromwellian forces trying to get rid of Irish Catholics from Dublin and other counties?

GuanYin

Gordon wrote:

If you aren't offended then this isn't a Personal Issue to you, therefore this would belong in Humanities.

Don't you think?

No, because I'm questioning my personal value systems, while I'm not offended I'm wondering if my values are too strict which dictate how I interact with others. I ran it by a PI mod before I posted and they thought it was appropriate.

GuanYin

Irish Angel wrote:

I dont know what everyone here thinks what that means but to me, I just love to slap them across the head! and for once, I was with some of my friends, a few boys, me and 2 girls, went in to this chinese after the club, as usual the boys started making jokes out of the staff english and how they dont understand, all of a sudden another chinese guy came out from the back, spoke very very good english, as if he was english, couldnt tell the different if i was talking to him on the phone, he start asked "was that just joke and are you guys gonna stop now or what?"
but they didnt stop, ended up having a fight with him! I think that was terrible!
why cant we just leave them alone? I do, at this stage I rather be with an asian, the reason of that is because I have not seen them started on my friends ever, and that guy was the first I have met that would stand up and defence the rest of them!

See thats it, the problem here is that although many people aren't the evil nazi stormfronters, they think that if someone is of a different nationality or different in appearance, they are fair game just for that.

There are many things you could say to comment on me if you wanted to have a go at me, god knows many people use em, however, a very large percentage will go on my race, which is funny cos it has very little to do with my personality at all.

simu

Amz wrote:

Wasn't that phrase originally used by Cromwellian forces trying to get rid of Irish Catholics from Dublin and other counties?

Yes.

Trojan

Yes, it was Amz. 1 gold star! (no offense intended to any Jews, MacDonalds workers or Junior Infants reading this message)

Originally Posted by Trojan
A thought on this subject: text based forms of communication are particularly prone to misconstrual and meaning can be completely twisted. Very dangerous.

syke wrote:

What about when someone admits that they did indeed intend the comment as a racial slur?

Well then that person is a gobshite. It's very different as there was intention.

My own philosophy, difficult as it is sometimes, is to judge people on their intentions rather than their actions (or words).

Irish Angel

syke, the best thing was that I made friends with this chinese guy, and he's very nice, plus 99% of his friends are irish or english, and if his friends are with him, and anyone try to make fun of him, his friends will reply to those di*kheads even before he gets angry! so I think there are alot of us on your side!

Gordon

syke wrote:

No, because I'm questioning my personal value systems, while I'm not offended I'm wondering if my values are too strict which dictate how I interact with others. I ran it by a PI mod before I posted and they thought it was appropriate.

I understand that syke, I have spoken with said mod about this earlier.

If the issue is concerning your value system then I am curious as to what you are questioning within yourself with regards to your treatment of other people.

Are you questioning whether or not you should treat people differently because they make a racist remark to you (knowingly)? Are you trying to figure out if you shouldn't come down upon people so hard for making racial slurs?

A question is - what is it about racial slurs that make you come down hard upon people? The ignorance? If so do you perceive ignorance in other fields of your life? And if you do do you treat other vast ignorances with such a heavy hand?

GuanYin

Gordon wrote:

A question is - what is it about racial slurs that make you come down hard upon people? The ignorance? If so do you perceive ignorance in other fields of your life? And if you do do you treat other vast ignorances with such a heavy hand?

There seems to be a vast difference in the acceptability of racist comments here for instance. I quite like Trojan for instance, we get on well in person, but if he made a racist joke or a comment about my ethnicity I would probably have no time for him after.

I remember one many accounted poster who posted a pretty viciously racist post once (which he dleted shortly after) and I decided I wanted nothing to do with him, having since interacted with him though someone else I actually have alot of time for him.

So I'm wondering what other people think are acceptable and how it relates to my stance that intent is intent and there is no degree of racism.

Trojan

The guys Irish Angel's referring to, who make derogatory and belittling remarks to and about these strangers have very different beliefs to those I hold, and these sort of people disgust me. Please don't confuse the two sorts.

--

If one black [/coloured/African American/whatever tf] guy calls another "my ******", and this is non offensive, why cannot I use the same phrase to refer to the guy? It's suddenly offensive because of my skin colour? Is this not discriminating against me?

Anyway, I don't think I can add much more to this discussion. I hope anyone reading this understands that I am not racist, but using examples to illustrate - of course I'm not going to protest too much.

Havelock

I understand Skye's point of view. I have little patience for racist comments ot jokes. But for me the complication arises over why I think its ok for people to make comments about my French lineage but not when they make racists jokes about people I don't know.

Gordon

syke wrote:

So I'm wondering what other people think are acceptable and how it relates to my stance that intent is intent and there is no degree of racism.

Then this is more of a Humanities thread.

If a Humanities mod thinks it more acceptable on PI then I will leave it on PI.

Trojan

D'oh - can't leave this go just yet!

Regarding what Havelock said: it's sometimes hard to justify why one is offended by one thing over another. Again, I think a lot of that is to do with intent.

A lot of the discussion about racism in the US is centred around equal rights and equal, and equal treatment. I touched upon this in my last post. This is one topic here which really gets to me. E.g. I cannot stand feminists who tolerate injustices against men. I completely disagree with Affirmative Action. If you want equal rights, then campaign for EQUAL rights, no more!

And so, on the subject of equality, and this is where we come back to the original topic, some people will gently tease others in friendly banter, sometimes using or referring to caricatures of their lineage (be it French, Irish, Indian). If the person who is teasing treats *every* single person in the same way (even if they are of the same place/race/sex as the speaker), then there is no discrimination, because everyone is being treated equally.

Syke: out of curiosity, have you never made a joke about women drivers to a girlfriend (and not actually meant it)? (Turnabout is fair play: I sure have, and they've been much better drivers than me, which I freely admitted).

--

Don't slam my sense of humour, it amuses some and (so far) has never genuinely offended anyone[1]

1. Touch wood.

simu

Havelock wrote:

I understand Skye's point of view. I have little patience for racist comments ot jokes. But for me the complication arises over why I think its ok for people to make comments about my French lineage but not when they make racists jokes about people I don't know.

Maybe because you know for sure that you're not offended when ppl joke about you?

GuanYin

Havelock wrote:

I understand Skye's point of view. I have little patience for racist comments ot jokes. But for me the complication arises over why I think its ok for people to make comments about my French lineage but not when they make racists jokes about people I don't know.

well the thing is most racist comments infer an inferiority about the race in question maybe its not the same type of inferral?

GuanYin

Trojan wrote:

Syke: out of curiosity, have you never made a joke about women drivers to a girlfriend (and not actually meant it)? (Turnabout is fair play: I sure have, and they've been much better drivers than me, which I freely admitted).

Honestly no.
I generally wouldn't slag someones driving as most car accidents occur when someone is upset or distracted, but tahts an aside.

I've commented on the inequality of insurance costs when the actual statistics (and EU law) don't support them but never generalised. I wouldn't be tolerant of sexism either.

Havelock

syke wrote:

well the thing is most racist comments infer an inferiority about the race in question maybe its not the same type of inferral?

Well as for the "fried lice" comment, that does not convay much racial inferiority.

But wqaht you are saying is generally true, I would be slagged over having too much interest in women (which I fail to see as a flaw), or my over familer manner and out landish mode of dress as regards being French. These are not nessiarily racial inferiorties.

But on your oginial point I do think its perfectly ok to insult what some says or does online, not who or what they are, as people can't help being who they are.

and Torjan your sense of humour [and admitedly my response] once offended someone.

Hobart

Where do you draw the line? If I refer to somebody as black, am I describing them or am I belittleing them? For example, if i said "3 black kids beat up 2 white kids etc...." is that infereing that blacks are more violent than whites? Some people would be offended by a statement like that. And what about jokes? Paddy Irish Man, etc... Black men being well endowed....., are they globally offensive? or just un-pc?

GuanYin

Hobart wrote:

Where do you draw the line? If I refer to somebody as black, am I describing them or am I belittleing them? For example, if i said "3 black kids beat up 2 white kids etc...." is that infereing that blacks are more violent than whites? Some people would be offended by a statement like that. And what about jokes? Paddy Irish Man, etc... Black men being well endowed....., are they globally offensive? or just un-pc?

Funny but thats a comment made about how the news in the US is reported an awful lot. They do tend to draw alot of attention to skin colour in crimes when the statistics show that there is little difference in criminal race, but thats an aside.

Why would you feel the need to draw attention to colour out of interest? Would you bother if it was 2 white kids and 1 black kid beating up a black kid and a white kid? As someone who works in the media, you of all people should be aware of the psychology behind the use of english to convey a message.

I wouldn't see it as specifically racist although I would ask why the skin colour is important in the reporting of the act. Again as a media employee you're best placed to answer.

As for Havelocks point. "Flied lice" makes two rather obvious inferrals. One it draws attention to the fact that some asians have a difficulty mastering english pronunciation. Two it attributes and entire race and culture, both more diverse and older than our own here, to the fact food industry that many have seen as a niche to make their trade in.

Now why or what either of these things have to do with any specific individual is beyond me.