Luis Aragones Racists comments

thejollyrodger · 07-10-2004 1:41pm #1

Does anyone know what the spanish team coach said about Thierry Henry ? I was pretty shocked to be honest and cant belive he said it to Jose Antonio Reyes.

The Spanish F.A shouldnt have backed the coach on this one, he should be made to make an apology

KdjaCL · 07-10-2004 1:46pm

French ace Robert Pires has lambasted Luis Aragones for his racist jibes about Thierry Henry.

The Spanish national team coach has been caught on Spanish television appearing to use racist language to refer to Henry after shouting at his Arsenal team-mate Jose Antonio Reyes.

The incident has caused outrage around Europe although Aragones and Reyes have both played down the matter insisting it was a joke.

Pires is furious with the conduct of Aragones and hopes that he is punished for his outburst.

"He should be sued for racial aggression," Pires told reporters at France's training ground.

"He shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. He needs to be cornered on this.

"What he said is not funny at all."

Aragones has been backed by Spanish Football Federation president Angel Maria Villar.

"Luis Aragones is no racist. I think the reported comments have been taken out of context."

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=230256&CPID=219&CLID=&lid=2&title=Pires+angry+at+Aragones

Still dunno what he said.

kdjac

Nuttzz · 07-10-2004 1:53pm

One man calls him a black sh1t and he should be sued, 40,000 ManU or liverpool fans call him the same twice a season so whats the difference?

having said that he is a wonderful player (and captain of my fantasy football team!!!) Hopefully he'll have a sh1t game this weekend though

Grimlock · 07-10-2004 2:11pm

In full view of the TV cameras, Aragones screamed at Reyes: "I want you to see things with more light and see them clearly. Tell that sh**ty black man that you're a better player than he is. Tell him what I think. You are the best."

So there ya go....
Nuttzz I think he should be punished, he is in a position of authority, he's a manager who has coaches player from numerous ethnic backgrounds and he should know better.
Comments from some Neanderthal’s in a stadium are unfortunately unavoidable, and seeing as there are very few(if any) clubs which are exclusively white or any other color for that matter then shouting racial abuse at a player on the opposing squad shows nothin more than the individuals stupidity and ignorance.
There are a lot of genuine soccer fans out there who only want to see every player give their heart for their team, skin color does not come in to it.

/2cents

eirebhoy · 07-10-2004 2:20pm

Grimlock wrote:

In full view of the TV cameras, Aragones screamed at Reyes: "I want you to see things with more light and see them clearly. Tell that sh**ty black man that you're a better player than he is. Tell him what I think. You are the best."

There's nothing much wrong with that IMO. He called him a black man which he is. Watch 8 mile and you'll hear Eminem been singled out as the "white man" every 5 minutes. Actually just thinking, i'm sure it would be perfectly Ok for that Etheopian coach to single out another person as the "white man" but when its the other way around its offensive. The ****ty part is the only thing in there that should cause offense.

The Muppet · 07-10-2004 2:20pm

Is calliing a black man a black man considered racist ? I assume the Sh**ty comment is the offesive bit but in context its offensive but I would not call that racist. I abhore racism but I do think sometimes allegations of racism are levelled too easily.

Ronan · 07-10-2004 2:30pm

of course it is racism, all be it mild. There was no need for him to use the term 'black man', why add that in unless he has a problem with it ?
He could have called him a "that s***ty player" or "that s***ty Henry".

I know it isn't as harsh language as, say with Ron Atkinson udes, but all the same there was no need for him to say that.

Racism is Racism

Grimlock · 07-10-2004 2:30pm

eirebhoy wrote:

There's nothing much wrong with that IMO. He called him a black man which he is. Watch 8 mile and you'll hear Eminem been singled out as the "white man" every 5 minutes. Actually just thinking, i'm sure it would be perfectly Ok for that Etheopian coach to single out another person as the "white man" but when its the other way around its offensive. The ****ty part is the only thing in there that should cause offense.

I agree with you, in part at least, if he had called Bergkamp a ****ty white man there would not be the same racist out cry, same as how there are no MOBO awards are not considered racist but if an award cerimony for "music of white origin" was set up it would be. We ar e conditioned that racism is a one way thing white vs. well any other color.
But just because there would not have been as big an out cry if he had said ****ty white man about a white player would not make it any less racist.
He made a derogatory remark about a player and used his skin color as part of said statement, that imho makes it a racist comment and one whihc he should be punished for.

I don't evny Reyes position on this, if he condems it he risks pissing the manager off and if he does not he may upset Henry.....

thejollyrodger · 07-10-2004 2:33pm

TBH its not as bad as I first thought it was. The fact that he qualified it by using sh1tty in front probably made it worse.

It's hard to get the right line with this one. One side is Politicial Correctness that would have a field day, the other is hiding racists comments.

It depends really how Henry is going to take it but I think he should say he was sorry and let it go at that. It was a pretty stupid way of trying to motivate players in this day and age with such a diverse amount of players in squads.

eirebhoy · 07-10-2004 2:37pm

Grimlock wrote:

if he does not he may upset Henry.....

I think I read on Sky Text today that Reyes said it was just a joke by his coach.

BKtje · 07-10-2004 3:25pm

Tbh im sick of everything being taken so seriously and literally. I had this opinion when i didnt know what he said and i feel even stronger about it now.
Racism is very bad, but a joke is a joke and while it was a bad joke it wasnt even in anyway racist imo. Way outta context and blown way outta proportion.
This political correctness culutre is going too far imo. You cant say anything any more incase someone takes it the wrong way.

pickarooney · 07-10-2004 3:32pm

Ronan wrote:

Racism is Racism

It's not as black and white as that.

If he'd called him "that shítty Frenchman" how would it have sounded?

Waylander · 07-10-2004 3:44pm

Accurate, except for the ****ty part!

Bungalow Bill · 07-10-2004 7:17pm

In fairness if it was a black coach and called pires a '****ty white boy', i doubt anyone whould have any problem so in that sense its hypocritical. I say lighten up( and no thats a not a racist comment

)

Pigman II · 07-10-2004 7:41pm

If he just called him 'black' then he's not Racist IMHO. The ****ty bit is still open for debate. Was he refering to him in an Arsenal or France context?

ella minnow pea · 07-10-2004 7:44pm

From football365.com:

Spain Coach Tells Reyes Henry Is A Black S**t

you can't compare 'white' and 'black' so equivocally.

it's, ahem, not as black and white as that. :rolleyes: (sorry)

the fact is, the word 'black' was always seen as a negative description; it is, basically, an insult, has been used as such for hundreds of years, and while it shouldn't be seen as something to be ashamed of, it still is used to cause offence. Same as someone calling me a Paddy - its just describing my nationality, but its still offensive, because it was used to cause offence for so long. The phrase 'white man' has never and will never have the same connotations as the phrase 'black man'.

So, to sum up, I think we should just all agree that it's much safer if Kav just calls Henry "a waaaanker" on Saturday.

Draupnir · 07-10-2004 8:01pm

and Im pretty sure he will, it seems to be Kavs party piece that multiple Wanker routine.

i dont think the comment was massively rascist in intention but as was said above, if he called one of our lads a big ****e paddy we wouldnt be happy. a man in his position should stick to the usual non offensive stuff like Kav does, at least its not offensive on a global, humantarian, call the UN hes a rascist level. Even French waaaanker is pretty acceptable.

The Muppet · 07-10-2004 9:38pm

Draupnir wrote:

if he called one of our lads a big ****e paddy we wouldnt be happy. .

I wouldn't. The chances are he'd be wrong.

Pigman II · 08-10-2004 9:06am

Draupnir wrote:

Even French waaaanker is pretty acceptable.

Since he is French will Cock wanker also be acceptable?

Waylander · 08-10-2004 9:07am

If you guys got that upset about someone being called a paddy you are far too sensitive. Sp let me get this straight now, if a balck man calls someone else a balck man, that is fine and acceptable, but if a white man calls someone a balck man he is a racist thug? That makes sense!

Ronan · 08-10-2004 9:50am

pickarooney wrote:

It's not as black and white as that.

If he'd called him "that shítty Frenchman" how would it have sounded?

It would have been fine IMO, the point I was trying to make was that the word black was unneccesairily used. It is just something that annoys me because it is a subtle form of racism that seems to be acceptable by many.
I think some of you are missing the point here really, it wasn't about how harsh the term was or wether Paddy or White man are as bad, it is the fact that Henry's skin colour was used in a derogatory way that I had the problem with.

I'm in no way PC, I just feel that using somebodys skin colour in that way is totally unnecessary and unacceptable. Just how I feel.

Waylander · 08-10-2004 10:49am

It is simply an adjective Ronan. If he had of used frenchman instead of black there would be anti french racist connutations, but that would not bother you? Is one form of racism more acceptable then another form of it to you?

The Rooster · 08-10-2004 11:41am

"Black" is in no way, shape or form a deragotory or racist remark. In fact, if you want to describe Thierry Henry's skin colour, it is the correct word to use. If you think "black" is racist, then you may be accused of being racist yourself!

Similarly, calling somebody white, Irish or French is not racist. However putting sh..tty in front of any of them, turns it into a racist remark. Whether its a bit racist or a lot racist is in the eye of the beholder. Irish players in England are techincally racially abused by opponents on a regular basis (so I hear), but they dont seem to let it bother them. Emmanual Petit compliained to the FA about being racially abused because a player called him a "French fooker". So some are more sensitive than others.

I havent heard how Henry feels, but I'd guess that he's also on the sensitive side.

Ronan · 08-10-2004 1:52pm

Waylander wrote:

Is one form of racism more acceptable then another form of it to you?

obviously it is :rolleyes:
I give up on this one! It is a boarderline case anyway.

cournioni · 08-10-2004 6:45pm

The Rooster wrote:

I havent heard how Henry feels, but I'd guess that he's also on the sensitive side.

But then again he's always whinging about something. Whether it be a comment made about him, or someone not passing the ball to his feet.