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Ken Bigley and the Guantanemo hostages

  • 30-09-2004 9:06am
    #1
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭


    Can somebody please explain to me the difference between Ken Bigleys captivity and that of the 100's of men held on Guantanemo by US forces?

    I just can't fathom what makes murdering ok for some people and not for others and what makes it ok to deny some innocent people their freedom and not others???

    Advice to Ken - tell your captors to **** themselves next time they put a camera in front of you and live whatever time you have left like a man.


Comments

  • #2
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Well, maybe, the Gitmo prisoners aren't going to have their heads chopped off for one.


  • #3
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    Open your eyes you idiot.


  • #4
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    Maybe not their heads but they will have their finger nails pulled out as well as other forms of torture. But don't fret, the Americans will bring them somewhere else to do it and get other people to do it.


  • #5
    quarryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    Longstaff wrote:

    Advice to Ken - tell your captors to **** themselves next time they put a camera in front of you and live whatever time you have left like a man.


    because that's what you'd do in the same situation?


  • #6
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Longstaff wrote:
    Open your eyes you idiot.
    My eyes are open - thanks.
    Idiot? Well it's good to see you cut straight to the point. :rolleyes:

    What's different between him and them is simple.
    1) He is a citizen of the first world. They aren't. Those that are, get different treatment (ie: get released a little quicker).
    and
    2) They are being held, supposedly, because they may have information, and they may have fought against the Americans. He is a civilian contractor, he isn't a mercenary; he isn't a soldier; he has no information for them.

    Some advice: try to provide points/fact as opposed to personal insults. All you've done on this thread is ask a question, make a pathetic comment about a very unfortunate person, and insult me.


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  • #7
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    Zulu wrote:
    2) They are being held, supposedly, because they may have information, and they may have fought against the Americans. He is a civilian contractor, he isn't a mercenary; he isn't a soldier; he has no information for them.

    Pleanty of the "terror suspects" held by the Americans are civillians with no information also. Did you see the coverage a few months back of the two British muslims who were held in Guantanemo bay for two years and then released without charge? How can the Americans get away with imprisoning someone without any form of trial??? Democracy my arse.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1167732,00.html


  • #8
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    quarryman wrote:
    because that's what you'd do in the same situation?
    Exactly right. They can take my body - but they will never take me who lives in this body.


  • #9
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    You might talk like that longstaff but I'm sure you would react different in the same situation.


  • #10
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    As for you Zulu, Sorry if I offended you but my original question was posed at the philosophical level.

    The nature of your last reply did however crystallise my assertion of your idiocy, moot as it may be as far as the original qustion posed is concerned.


  • #11
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    FX Meister wrote:
    You might talk like that longstaff but I'm sure you would react different in the same situation.
    I would never beg the way Bigley did this morning - I would honestly rather die.


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  • #12
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    HelterSkelter wrote:
    Pleanty of the "terror suspects" held by the Americans are civillians with no information also. Did you see the coverage a few months back of the two British muslims who were held in Guantanemo bay for two years and then released without charge? How can the Americans get away with imprisoning someone without any form of trial??? Democracy my arse.
    Ahh no - I know this well, I'm not saying it's right or ok, I was just answering the question. I've argued and protested against GitMo and the rest of the NeoCon's shams.
    Longstaff wrote:
    As for you Zulu, Sorry if I offended you but my original question was posed at the philosophical level.
    The nature of your last reply did however crystallise my assertion of your idiocy, moot as it may be as far as the original qustion posed is concerned.
    Whats going on here - you apologise, and then insult again :D Are you ok? How old are you anyway? :rolleyes: "philosophical level" LOL, you've gotta be sh1tting me! :p
    Longstaff wrote:
    I would never beg the way Bigley did this morning - I would honestly rather die.
    :rolleyes: Maybe when you're a little older, and your dreams of joining the Navy SEAL's subside, you might understand that this man has a family.


  • #13
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    Zulu, The original question posed is trying to explore different paradigms of the same situation. You obviously think there is a difference between the two situations. That its bad for muslims to capture innocent people but ok for others wielding the righteous flag of the "free". That's fine.

    The reason I know I wouldn't beg like Bigley is because I've been imprisoned on foreign soil myself and suffered beatings and hunger. Had I not read Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl about his time in a Nazi death camp I may have killed myself.

    The more you reply with inane jibes and emoticons the more you sell your self short.


  • #14
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Longstaff wrote:
    Zulu, The original question posed is trying to explore different paradigms of the same situation. You obviously think there is a difference between the two situations. That its bad for muslims to capture innocent people but ok for others wielding the righteous flag of the "free". That's fine.
    Don't tell me what I "obviously" think, especally when it's wrong. You evidently have no idea what I think.
    You asked somebody to "please explain to me the difference", I did. You didn't like what I said; you jumped to a conclusion; you insulted me.
    Personally, I probably agree with some of your standing on the Iraq/GitMo/Hostage situation, but I would rather debate that than try to belittle Ken Bigley.
    Longstaff wrote:
    The reason I know I wouldn't beg like Bigley is because I've been imprisoned on foreign soil myself and suffered beatings and hunger. Had I not read Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl about his time in a Nazi death camp I may have killed myself.
    Well aren't you my hero. Perhaps you did, perhaps you didn't. If you did, give yourself a pat on the back, but don't expect everyone to react in a similar fashion.
    Longstaff wrote:
    The more you reply with inane jibes and emoticons the more you sell your self short.
    ...this coming form the same person who's rebuttal to my first post was....
    Longstaff wrote:
    Open your eyes you idiot.
    :rolleyes:


  • #15
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    Do you reject the notion that you are a fool?


  • #16
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Longstaff wrote:
    Do you reject the notion that you are a fool?
    Amazingly - yes, I do reject that notion, but I sense you are going to enlighten me from my foolish ways.

    I can't wait...


  • #17
    Phil_321
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭Phil_321


    Longstaff wrote:
    The reason I know I wouldn't beg like Bigley is because I've been imprisoned on foreign soil myself and suffered beatings and hunger. Had I not read Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl about his time in a Nazi death camp I may have killed myself.


    Longstaff, you are a true hardass, I take it you told your captors, to go and **** themselves?


  • #18
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    I imagine they prefered to **** him rather than themselves. Oh how funny am I?


  • #19
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    Point 1: Posts like this are better suited to the Politics forum, unless you are angling your question to how the press percieve the differences (somehow, I don't think you are).

    Point 2: Are you by any chance (related to) Omnicorp or ArcadeGamer2004? :eek:

    To answer your question, as far as I can see, the political differneces are that Kenneth Bigley is a hostage, the men of Guantanamo are prisioners. There is a difference. Now as for moral differences, thats a different story...


  • #20
    IgnatiusJRiley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭IgnatiusJRiley


    This has the potential to be one of the most entertaining threads ever. Keep the posts coming Longstaff ya big feckin eejit ya!!


  • #21
    Longstaff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Longstaff


    The End. Thanks for the stimulating discussion.


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  • #22
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    I didn't even read through this thread, because this is not a News/Media discussion, it's at best politics.
    I would move it there, but given that Longstaff has acted with such ignorance and agression, I'm just going to lock it. And ban Longstaff for a week.

    No personal insults, full stop.

    flogen


This discussion has been closed.
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