Depression

LegacyUser

Hi

I need advise, but its for someone else. Honestly. I live with someone who suffers from severe manic depression. She has done for years and is on anti-depresants for some time. No sign of coming off the anti-depresants and the dosage is getting larger. She just sits and cries. There has to be a cure for this. I can't cheer her up and she won't help herself. The only time she is happy is when she has a boyfriend, and when she doesn't she is suicidal, even on the anti-depresants. What can I do with her? I tried to convience her that suicide was selfish, she agrees with that. Something other than vast amounts of drugs has to be available. I can't get her to join any clubs or be active. Her head is wrecked. Mines wrecked trying to come up with a solution. I'm giving up.

Any solutions? anybody?

Paddy20

You personally need a back up system for a start. Can I suggest you click on: www.aware.ie/

Hopefully, they will be able to advise you about how too cope with the stress of helping someone suffering from this depressive illness.

Or try talking to your own GP or your girlfriends Psychiatrist, if she has a good one.

Modern medications can be a wonderful help with this type of illness, but the correct diagnosis, and then the trials and tribulations of seeking to find the medication that works for each individual can be unbelieveably stressful for the person caring for the sufferer, as I am sure you know.

Try what I have suggested, and keep posting about how you are progressing.

Good luck.

I am MAN

First of all explaining something like the world been good or suicide is selfish to a heavily depressed person is useless.

Secondly she should be getting benefit out of anti-depressants or if shes not she should try switching because alot of people take some time to find the right one for them and its a long process.

If she truly suffers from such a state of manic depression she should be given lithium to stabalise her moods so finding out what she really has is a big difference.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies. She is on the same anti-depressant for the past 19 years. It took her a while to find the right one, and this one seems to work wonders. The only thing is after 19 years the dosage increase and it stops having the effect it once had. She is not coming off it, and I really don't want her increasing the dosage. She is a trained counsellor and won't see anyone about it. Apparently its a chemical imbalance in the brain and talking does no good. I thought if she kept busy that would work, she wouldn't have time to wander into a bad phase. I have a good look at that aware site.

Thanks.

meepmeep

Are you sure its manic depression she has? Theres a big difference between manic depression and depression, and if she sits and cries all day i'd say she has the latter.

But anyhoo, if she is only happy when she has a bf then it must be something to do with her feeling lonely and unwanted when shes alone. Looks to me like she has serious self esteem issues and when she is with someone maybe that makes her feel attractive or wanted?

One of my best friends went through this and the only way we could help her was to be patient. Make time to spend with her, take her out. Tell her how much you love her (or like her). We did this for a while and the cloud lifted. Shes now as happy as shes ever been.

She just needs your support........

Paddy20

Lost,

19 years on the same medication is a very long time, if her dosage is being increased and not really helping. Then perhaps a review of her medication regime is required.

You are correct when you state that "Manic depression" is a chemical imbalance in the brain. This often triggers severe mood swings and extreme behaviour which sometimes can be frightening. The correct medication which keeps these highs and lows in mood swings under control is vital.

After some time some patients may need an additional anti-depressant rather than an increase in the dosage of the primary medication, that the body may have built up a high tolerance against, but changing a medication completely is not often considered appropriate.

You state that she is a trained counsellor, and will not see anyone about it ?..
I am a bit confused there, but what field is she a trained counsellor in ?.. and what will she not see anyone about ?...

Those suffering from manic depression are very often extremely intelligent, and a bit larger than life in many ways. Making them very attractive personalities and a joy to be with when they are stable and not too high. However, if the high becomes out of control, then immediate pro-active intervention has to be demanded from the medical profession, and this can be difficult to obtain from an over-burdened health service, as you are probably aware.

Keep posting about your dilemma. Believe me you are not the first and will not be the last person who is faced with trying to cope. Be firm with the professionals, you appear to be the one closest to the individual who is suffering from this illness. Therefore, you have every right to be listened too.

Best of luck, for now.

acous

19 years does seem like a really long time. I was under the impression that the patents for old anti-depressants were running out a few years ago and the next generation of drugs were much improved, maybe she'd have better luck on newer stuff?

I am MAN

I agree with Paddy20 - I think she does need a review of her current medication. I've never heard of anyone building a tolerance to SSRI's and all of them have a recommended highest adult dose so increasing them beyond that is unsafe. A chemical(serotonin mainly) inbalance within the brain does not narrow it down to MANIC depression this is the case with most if not all forms of depression and if her moods go from euphoric to suicidal or somewhere inbetween lithium or another medication similar should be given to her.

I think you really need to find out her full diagnoses and medication.

Personally when I feel crap people talking to me is the last thing I want and alot of the time for me it is not a life situation like she said something out of her control a lack of serotonin or something similar.

keep posted.

MistressPandora

Ah, now, I know this situation all too well, I used to live with a girl with the same problem, except that I also suffer from depression. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do except listen. She needs someone to depend on, but don't try to take this on yourself on your own, because it's a long tough road.
Why don't you talk to Aware and the Samaratians? They can offer a lot of advice.

gnu

It does sound more like depression than manic-depression. My friend's Mum had this and had to take lithium to calm her down, otherwise she did really crazy things. Her medication had to be reviewed monthly anyway.
I know people who suffer from depression as well and even if it is considered to be a chemical imbalance, I've been told that counselling can help along with medication. One friend in particular found that unless he complained vehemently about his medication, he was just left on it and his dosage was increased periodically. The problem was when he was feeling awful, he didn't feel up to haranguing his psychiatrist.
Basically, I wonder could you talk to the doctor with her and try to find a solution? My other bit of advice is make sure you have support for yourself, don't underestimate how much this takes out of you.
Best of luck, hope things get better.

Paddy20

Acous,

Modern anti-depressants are certainly wonderful at treating depression. However it has been stated by 'Lost' that his girlfriend is suffering from "Severe" manic depression.

I am assuming that this clinical diagnosis, has been made by a Psychiatrist as it is not one that your average layperson would generally come up with.

Strange as it may seem, the old medication "Lithium" still appears to be amongst the most popular and effective drugs for treating or controlling the symptoms of "Mania".

The management of manic depression is very difficult for all concerned, and support for the carer and the sufferer are paramount.

Sadly, we live in a society where these services are not made available as easily as perhaps they should be. That is why voluntary support groups exist in most communities, and 'Lost' needs this type of support as much if not more than his girlfriend.

Let's hope he get's it ASAP.

snorlax

maybe she could try and see an occupational therapist(im a student). alot of them specailise in depression.

they specialise in helping ppl 2 get better without the use of drugs etc and through alternative therapies.

they try and increase the persons wellbeing by getting them to partake in actives and occupations that are important to them. eventually this increases their happiness and self-confidence as the person takes control of their own life and is given little goals to set them on the road to recovery and give them a sense of achievement, each persons remedy is different, their goals are set by themselves and facilitated by the therapist.
there are lots of OT's in st john of Gods, stillorgan and other places,but a bit of a long waiting list im afraid.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the replies. She had lots of goals, and has pretty much succeeded at them all. This was my point to her last night and she has decided to go to the doctor today to alter the medication. The doctor who origionally perscribed the anti-depresent is no longer her doctor. Her current doctor just hands out the perscription like its candy because she has been on it so long and CAN'T come off it. I suggested trying something else along with it last night and she seemed to agree. I even suggested joining a club of some sort, you know, to do something that involves meeting people. If the depression is triggered by lonliness I thought maybe this might help. I can't be there to catch her any more. I discard my social life when she needs me, and when she is ok and on top of the world she doesn't need me. I can't keep bouncing back and forth along with her. I just want to make sure that when I'm not there she isn't going to be sitting in darkness crying into a bottle of wine. Hopefully the doctor with help today.

Battlesnake

Not really sure where to begin with this. . . .

First of all explaining something like the world been good or suicide is selfish to a heavily depressed person is useless.

Completely true. From my own personal experience - I didn't see the world in the way I do now, I saw it as something which caused me pain, was too big for me to deal with and wasn't connected to anything at all.

She's the only one who can convince herself of anything, all you can do is be there for her and try and help her figure it out.

<SHE NEEDS HELP>

More to the point the help she needs is far more than what you can give. Anti - depressants are great, but what happens when they're taken away?
Her thinking will still be in the same pattern, the problems will still be there and it's straight back to square one.
She needs to have a place where she can go and talk things out and feel comfortable. I see a therapist who works with a bunch of other people, including a psychiatrist, to manage what's going on with me and sort out the best treatment. It's been a really positive experience for me. However getting there is not easy, I had to go through countless gps, hospitals and councellors before I found the right help.

You say she's a councellor herself and perhaps she works with the very people she needs help from, a difficult situation to say the least. She probably in some way thinks she can manage things herself, but she doesn't have the privilege of stepping back from her situation and I think that's really what is needed in this case.

19 years is a hellish amount of time to be going through this, action needs to be taken. I bet she barely even remembers what happiness is, or perhaps she's yet to discover it. Her dependancy on men is one thing that needs to be talked about for a start, there could be a million things bothering her that she's never even spoken about, who knows? There's a reason why she only feels safe, happy and secure when she's with someone. . . .finding out why could be really liberating for her. I can't really go further with this because I don't know enough about her situation, there's something really wrong going on with her, I agree with some of the others that it sounds more like depression than manic depression.

I wouldn't worry about her coming off the drugs, right now they might be the only thing that is keeping her going, if she came off them she'd crumble.

She just sits and cries

The crying is good if it helps her get things out of her system, she needs to talk though because it's the only way the thoughts are going to stop buzzing round her head like bluebottles in a jam jar.

The only cure is time, patience and determination. She needs to want to get better. Don't concentrate on 'cheering her up' even if you manage it, the effects will be short term and the effort you put in will seem meaningless. Maybe try taking her to somewhere quiet and peaceful where she can think without the noise of her every day life deafening her.

I can't get her to join any clubs or be active.

That's about step 27 in the getting better handbook . . . . .
The last thing she needs is a load of new people with lots of questions being thrown at her, she can't even be honest with herself, hows she going to deal with the rest of the world?

It's not for you to come up with a solution, that's putting way too much weight on your shoulders, how on earth are you meant to figure out what's best for another human being (regardless of whether they're close to you or not), you can't get inside her head. She needs to admitt she has a problem and that she needs more help than what she's currently allowing herself to have. The day she is honest with herself and accepts herself warts and all is the day she starts to recover.

There's plenty for her to talk about - for example how having the 'chemical imbalance' makes her feel and how upsetting it is to not be able to fix it etc etc. She's avoiding the situation.

My heart goes out to you, it is not easy, well done for being strong enough to stick with her and hold her hand so to speak. There is a time though when that is not enough and theres nothing more that you can do, don't beat yourself up over it, you're doing the best you can. Help her to find the strength she needs to deal with it and take care of yourself.

Take it easy and good luck.

LegacyUser

I think she is in denile. For years she told me the anti-depresants where sleeping tablets. She went to the doctor today but didn't mention the medication, ended up dealing with the nurse about something else. I don't think she even wants to mention it to the doctor. It hasn't been brought up to anyone outside the family in a while. Its abit taboo. Hense my posting on boards. Sort of defogs my head.

I have come to the conclusion that I am being selfish by thinking her problem is my problem. Its not. Also ignorance is bliss, if she wants to ignor it maybe I should too.

Thanks for the postings.

Penfolds

Lost,
Did she go to see a Doctor (i.e. GP) or a psychiatrist ?
I've been on anti-depressants for 3 years now and touch wood everything is going ok and i'm getting on with my life. I still get down but it tends to be triggered now by the more normal stuff like relationships ending etc. A large part of my ability to cope is probably due to medication, but thankfully I've been able to lower my dosage with the help of my specialist over the last year.

In my experience most GP's will prescribe and keep you on a particular med as they have limited knowledge of what the alternative medications are. For the first year when my GP had me on a SSRI I showed no sign of improvement and he showed no interest in changing my meds. Then I went to seee a psychiatrist and he's had me on 4 different medications but eventually thankfully we found the right medication which works a treat.

Also, due to the abysmal state of public mental health services in this country, it really is worth going to see a psychiatrist in private (i.e. somewhere like St Patricks or John of God's in Dublin). Sure, it's around 150€ a pop to visit them but it's money well spent if you get the results !
You mentioned that she feels talking to someone won't help, but it sounds like she needs to see a psychiatrist to help her take control of / sort out her medication needs.

Can you talk to her family about it ? At least it would be someone for you to talk to about it. If you feel that may be going behind her back/betraying a trust then give the aware helpline a call 1890 303 302.

It sounds like you've been and continue to be a very good friend to her, but it also sounds like she really needs to see a professional to re-assess her medication needs as the current one are obviously not working.

Penfolds

Falkorre

As somone whos partner has bipolar disorder, i second everything battlesnake has said, not much i can really add to it except to re-iterate,....
She needs help u cannot provide, help her find it by talking to her doctor or by phoning AWARE etc

best of luck, believe me i know how difficult it can be living with a bipolar

B

logic1

lost wrote:

Hi

Any solutions? anybody?

Move out.

.logic.

Paddy20

Lost,

1; Where someone who has been clinically diagnosed by a Professional, as suffering from "Severe manic depression".

2;Then that person's GP and the local Health Board must intervene pro-actively if the patient is deemed to be - a risk - to themselves or others.

3; If the GP or Health board are not informed of a patient's current state of mind, then they obviously can not help, as they are not psychic.

4; Sometimes a patient will need to be sectioned and admitted to a psychiatric unit for proper observation and assessment. This needs two (2) Doctor's/GP's to agree this step is in the best interest of the patient, as a citizen's civil right's are involved, but unfortunately those caring for a patient with a psychological illness, must demand positive action when needed, for both the patient's and the carer's best interest.

5; In my life, I personally have had to take on full responsibility for 2 very close relation's, both suffering from "Severe manic depression" and chronic "Personality disorders". No one seemed capable of handling these individuals, and it was not until I threatened - in writing - to the Chief Executive Officer of my local Health board that I would sue the Health board and the Department of Health for dereliction of duty in not providing proper health care for my relation's, that suddenly in one day, they started receiving proper - care and attention.

Sooner or later, you or a member of your girlfriends family may have to "Get tough" with the medical profession and the Health board administrators.

Sadly, at times in life we have to stand up for our own rights, and especially for the rights of those who may be too ill to help themselves.

Good luck.

LegacyUser

This isn't my girlfriend, its my mother. Move out sounds logical but I'm the only thing she has. Don't want to push her over board altogether. I'll mention the doctor again.

Paddy20

Now then, sorry about me assuming you were talking about your girlfriend. Your mother is the one suffering from "Severe manic depression".

Believe me, that really is a different situation. I do not know how old you are, but I sincerely hope that you are not trying too cope with her illness on your own. As I stated before, you personally need "back up" that is available 24/7.

As you state "Denial" of the illness by the sufferer is common. Manic depressive's really are brilliant at convincing even the most astute Psychiatrist's that everything is fine. This is a major part of the problem. Until your mother receive's the correct medication for her specific condition, life for you will be far from easy, and I doubt you need me pointing that out.

If you have lived with your mother over the past 19 years, and she has been suffering the severe mood swing's and behavioural pattern's associated with this illness. You must have been to hell and back, many time's.

Can I urge you to talk to Aware, or ask them if there is a 'Carer's group' in your area, for people looking after or living with a manic depressive.

One thing I am a bit concerned about, is I hope you do not feel that people will look down on you or your mother because of the out of date perception of the stigma of mental illness. Thankfully, times have changed for the better, and a lot of support exist's both for your mother and also for you.

Please seek it out, as soon as you feel up to it, because you must be physically and mentally exhausted.

One step at a time, and one day at a time is the only way that I know of, to handle the type of situation you are in, but rest assured that once your mother start's receiving and then regularly take's the correct medication. The quality of life for both of you can improve dramatically.

Seek the help you need now.

God bless.

Battlesnake

Hey Lost,
I'm really feeling for you right now, you seem to have had quite a lot to deal with, having a parent who isn't well is a nightmare, in my own situation I've spent quite a long time trying to 'fix things' for my parents while also trying to deal with my own stuff.
In the end I realised my efforts were in vain as both of them have to see their problems for themselves and admitt that action needs to be taken.
I moved out and now have better relationships with my parents and it has become easier to deal with my own life because I don't constantly feel swamped with their 'issues'.
Your Mum needs a lot of help, being in denial about the whole thing isn't helping her to get better and it would be such a breakthrough if she could only just be 'ok' with things not being ok. Unfortunately that seems like a crime in this world of perfection. I hope for your sake and hers that things improve.
Something a councellor once said to me. . . .

'You are responsible for yourself and responsible to other people'

Your Mum needs to take responsibility for her own life and all you can do is help her to do that, you can't do things for her, it will only end up destroying you and possibly make the situation worse.
Sometimes it can be hard when people are set in their ways and changing the pattern is going to be difficult especially after two decades of repetition.

Be strong and look after yourself, the world's too heavy for your shoulders alone, remember that.
BS x

LegacyUser

I'm going annonomous here because I don't want people to know this about me. (I'm not ashamed, but people tend to treat you differently when they know you suffer from depression).

I've battled with depression for 17 years and it's a very hard thing to come to grips with. When I was a teenager, it first showed itself and I wasn't properly diagnosed until I was 19 yrs old. My doctor shrugged it off saying it was teenaged hormones and everyone goes through it.
I even thought that myself at the time. I kept saying that everyone was in the same boat and I wasn't all that bad.
But eventually, after 5 years, one day I got out of bed and got as far as sitting at the kitchen table and I couldn't move any further. I spent the entire day crying my eyes out. I wasn't sad about anything, I just felt completely empty and full of despair. This was the point that I realised there was something wrong and I made a huge effort to find someone to help.

Many medical people, including my GP, felt the answer was to throw medication at me. I'm not a person who is fond of pill popping and I wanted to see if there was a different option. I eventually found a lovely psychologist who basically counselled me. He had many plans of action, counselling (in many forms), hypnotherapy and his last resort was medication. He only ever used medication on a patient if none of the other therapys would work on its own.

I'm still suffering... unfortunately, some people will never be free from depression and it appears that I'm one of them. But the good thing is that I've learned how to deal with it AND if I hit a particularly rocky patch or find myself floundering, I have good support and a brilliant professional that I can go to for help.

Lost, your mother needs to know first and foremost that she has people around her that can help her. She needs to know that people love her and NEED her. That was a problem that I felt for a long time. I'm a very quiet natured person and I felt that if I disappeared into the shadows that no one would notice... that was a scarey feeling... but ultimately untrue. When you're in a black depression you rarely thing about things in a rational manner.
She needs to keep on the medication, especially since she has been on it for so long, but perhaps another complimentary therapy might help and also might mean she can reduce her dosage. You should help her find a different medical professional that can help her properly rather than scribble out prescriptions.

It was suggested to me to go and join clubs and join in with activities. Being so quiet and nervous and obviously not in a great frame of mind, I just agreed with the person suggesting it to me to get them off my back. Then it worried me that I wasn't following through on something that I had promised to do and I felt I was letting down my friend. The black depression spiralled out of control! This sort of thing put huge amounts of pressure on me and made me feel a whole lot worse. I felt as if I was being brow-beaten to become a "normal" person and to snap myself out of my gloomy mood. I know my friends where only trying to be helpful, but it only made things worse for me.

Basically, a person with depression needs to sort things out for themselves in their own time. Pressure of any sort will only make progress go backwards.
The person needs to recognise they have a problem, recognise and accept that they need help and they have to go and seek this help for themselves.
Everyone in their life has to just stand back and be the safety net. But be an obvious safety net... make this person know they have people round them.

Depression for me means that I feel like I'm completely solitary, and that's the most frightening thing that I've ever felt. When you feel you're on your own your imagination can run wild and that's not always a good thing.

I hope things work out for you and your mother. It was a long and difficult process for me and it's still on-going, but my life has been completely changed since I first went for help. I actually have a life now and I'm enjoying it!

Paddy20

Lost,

If you feel that you might benefit, by having direct contact with someone such as myself. If you send me a PM.

I will happily forward you my home telephone number.

country_gurl

It must be really hard for you and well done on trying to help her. I know its hard but try and be patient - i had a boyfriend who was depressed once - it lasted a year and a half before it eventually broke me and i too was bordering on depression from the emotional stress of it - he used suicide as a threat if i ever talked about breaking up so i stayed for about 6 months but eventually i saw through him and knew he would never do it - and he didnt. Best of luck in the future and hope you find a remedy.