[article] FAI to look for a new home during stadium revamp

thejollyrodger

Gerry McDermott
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1242248&issue_id=11353

THE FAI has drawn up plans to move home matches to Britain during the 29 months it will take to redevelop Lansdowne Road.

The €300m project successfully completed its first phase yesterday when a formal legal agreement was signed by the FAI, IRFU, and the Department of Sport for the 50,000-seat stadium.

IRFU chief executive Philip Brown said they have not yet addressed the issue of alternative venues, but he was confident of finding an alternative venue.

FAI boss Fran Rooney said the football association had already drawn up contingency plans and made contact with several cross-channel locations.

Rooney revealed that the FAI had been looking at four locations in Britain, believed to Parkhead in Glasgow, Old Trafford in Manchester, Liverpool‘s Anfield, and Cardiff‘s Millennium Stadium.

It is believed that management at the Millennium Stadium are keenest to have Ireland set up temporary home in the Welsh capital.

The loss of football and rugby internationals over a 29-month period would represent a major loss to the local economy and Minister for Sport John O‘Donoghue hopes it won‘t be necessary.

"I would be very concerned if international fixtures were ever taken out of the jurisdiction. I hope they would be in a position to accommodate their fixtures within the State," said the minister.

The chief executives of both associations said that they understood and respected the GAA's position and would not be factoring Croke Park into their contingency plans until such time as Rule 31 was repealed.

However, with a single Ireland-England rugby international alone said to be worth €65m to the economy, it is unlikely that the politicians will allow that money to leave the country while an 84,000-seat stadium lies empty in Dublin.

thejollyrodger

Cardiff‘s Millennium Stadium seems the most appropriate, but I dont really think it will come to that. 28 months of away games for ireland ? That is a LOT of money to loose, and there will be a public outcry of having to fly to Wales

p.pete

Reading's Madejski Stadium would be cool

Shame we don't have to capacity to do what England are currently doing and bring the matches on a tour of the Irish league grounds...

RuggieBear

Have to say my fav would be the Millenium stadium in Cardiff....best atmosphere of any stadium i've ever been in.

The Rooster

Anyone know how much Liverpool's stadium is costing?

It was mentioned on Newstalk yesterday that it will be a similar size to Lansdowne but will cost STG£125m compared to €250-300m for Lansdowne.

I know there's a difference between building on a greenfield site compared to rebuilding an existing stadium, but surely not that much!

I doubt the FAI would lose much money playing the games in Cardiff compared to Croker. With the number of ex-pats in Britain and the relative ease to get from Ireland, there'll still be big crowds. The public and media outcry however, would be unprecedented!!

Big Nelly

Why not go to Parkhead, Anfield, Old Trafford/Man City Stadium, and a London clubs ground! would be certain then to get a full crowd for each game!!

thejollyrodger

£125m = €184 Million compared to €250 Million. However it depends on the facilites at the ground.


It's all very well for the people in England. But what about all this money the country is loosing ???? The GAA agreed terms with the company that has been set up to build and manage the new lansdowne road (i.e the new pitch will be big enough for GAA). So they must intend using it in the future, they could meet IRFU/FAI 1/2 way and open a perfectly good 84,000 stadium in dublin !

thejollyrodger

02/09/04

Soccer and rugby’s ground for optimism
By Bill George
http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/sport/Full_Story/did-sgMCkwPQCetmE.asp


SPORTS Minister John O’Donoghue yesterday locked the Government into the redevelopment programme for Lansdowne Road when he formally signed a legal agreement with the IRFU and the FAI to deliver the new €300m stadium by 2008.

The Minister announced the appointment of Willie Ryan as Project Director. He is an engineering graduate of UCD, holds an MBA from Trinity College and has more than 30 years Project Management experience in Ireland and overseas.

The new stadium will be a 50,000 all-seated facility with 64 corporate boxes and 8,000 premium seats. It is proposed to apply for planning permission late in 2005 and it is planned to commence construction in the second half of 2006.

“This is a landmark day for Irish sport” said the minister. “Ireland’s international rugby and soccer squads will now have a platform on which they can showcase themselves and Ireland to the world and from which they can develop and build on the progress they have already achieved.”



“An historic day for sport in Ireland,” agreed FAI president Milo Corcoran. “The FAI have worked hard over the years to secure a home for Irish football and the formal agreement that was signed today means that in a relatively short time we will at last have a home for Irish football.”

IRFU president Barry Keogh, said: “It was in February 1994 that Ronnie Dawson proposed we look at the future needs of our sport. After ten years, during which we went down many side roads, we have reached the point where the oldest international rugby stadium in the world, where we played England in 1878, has its future secured at long last.”

The legal agreement covers the establishment of a new company, the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company Ltd., which is responsible for the construction and management of the new stadium. The company is comprised of IRFU and FAI personnel and is chaired from its inception by IRFU chief executive Philip Browne.

“This is going to be a landmark project for Dublin City, for the country as a whole. Our business now is to translate a vision and a concept into reality,” said Mr Browne:”

Under the terms of the agreement the Government will contribute €191m towards the construction costs with the IRFU committing to providing €68m and the FAI obligated to invest €33m.

The IRFU will, of course, retain ownership of the site but the buildings that will form the new stadium will be owned in equal measure by the IRFU and the FAI. The chairmanship of the new company will rotate between the two associations every two years with Mr Browne stepping down when the project is complete.

Inevitably, there will be obstacles to be overcome and there will be a price to be paid above and beyond the financial outlay. There will undoubtedly be objections to the development from residents in the area and there will be the difficult problem of finding a venue for international matches over a two-year period.

The issue of securing a venue for international matches over a two-year period of course brought the subject of Croke Park into yesterday’s discussions. The restrictions placed on the GAA by their constitutional position was acknowledged by the IRFU and the FAI.

Said IRFU chief, Philip Browne: “We have been so involved in these negotiations that we have not yet had time to look at contingency plans. But we will have to institute discussions with our colleagues in the Six Nations’ Championship to discover what options are open to us.

“As regards the GAA, we fully recognise and understand the situation that pertains in Croke Park. That was made very clear at the last Congress and we have to work within the parameters that are laid down for us.”

FAI chief executive Fran Rooney said: “We have already made contact with the management people of the various stadia that we might have to use and we are confident we will have a solution in place in good time.

“We’ve probably four key options in mind and while we would be disappointed to have to take any fixtures abroad, we have to look at our position from a practical standpoint.

“We have very strong relationships with the GAA, I’ve played GAA myself, and we have had many informal discussions about opportunities of working together in the future. But the GAA, by its own constitution, prohibits the playing of our games so it is an irrelevant exercise to go and talk to them at this point.”

The minister said it would be very undesirable to have to take international matches outside the jurisdiction. On the question of playing at Croke Park he added: “That is a question for the GAA. We all know and understand the GAA’s situation and every avenue will have to be explored to see what alternatives are available for the 29 month period the stadium is under construction.”

The Minister said they already had talks with the GAA on the possibility of them using Lansdowne Road when it is completed. The pitch will be big enough to accommodate football and hurling matches and he believed they would use the stadium in time.

I believe the FAI have had favourable talks with the management of the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff; Old Trafford; Anfield and Parkhead in Glasgow. The IRFU have already had public expressions of support from the English and Scottish associations but everything suggests that it is to Cardiff that Ireland’s matches will go if Croke Park is not made available for rugby and soccer internationals.

KdjaCL

Well arent we a complete joke of a country. This is an embarrassment to football.


kdjac

The_B_Man

From FAI Site (ps whats a Statium?)

“There are four grounds we’ve identified and one of them is actively pursuing us,” he said. “We want to play our home games at home but sometimes that can’t be possible.”

I'm guessing its the millenium stadium. suppose it wouldnt be too bad. you could get the stenna over on a day trip, though you'd probably be too drunk by the time the match starts to find the place!

StickyMcGinty

is it just me or is 50,000 seater too small. 6 thousand more than the current landsdown road? a joke for 300 million.

thejollyrodger

I have to agree. I was going to post something similar. All the matches for Ireland are always sell outs, the GAA would have better use out of it that the IRFU or FAI to be honest. Isnt some of those semi's and quarter finals just around that size.

Meanwhile IRFU/FAI could easily sell out 80,000 tickets for its games + really make a fortress Dublin

StickyMcGinty

we need a big roof, to make the already super atmosphere better!!

and 2008??? whats taking so long??

Imposter

I reckon that 50k is too small too. Rugby and Soccer would sell out a far bigger stadium for most of their matches.

I also think the Rule 42 issue will be on the agenda for the GAA's congress next year which could put the decision into the hands of a sub-commitee within the GAA. So I don't think Croker can be ruled out yet. I think the FAI and the IRFU know this and will have to explore other options just in case and they'll probably use the media to try and swing the GAA on the issue. It's also nice to see that they are actually acknowledging that the GAA can't say yes to them at the moment. It's a far more civil attitude than has been seen in certain parts of the media to date.

egan007

Right 50'000 is too small....
when you consider that 8000 are premium seats (the ones we never get)
then that's 42'000 tickets per game
what country builds a 42'000 seat national stadium these days?
Stupid.....
Lansdowne can hold that with standing......

Tellox

rofl, we might just be the greatest joke ever played on international football.
Calling up players who've been capped by England before stirs a bit of controversy... But playing our games in their stadiums?

eirebhoy

VinnyL wrote:

and 2008??? whats taking so long??

2 years isn't long to knock down and rebuild a new stadium.

StickyMcGinty

and what are they doing between now and 2006? pull the finger out lads!

thejollyrodger

ITs a joke alright, 2 years of PLANNING ?? Typical Ireland.

50,000 - 9,000 seats = a 42,000 seater stadium. Not exactly Wembely or Stade de France. Looks like it will be as hard as ever to see our national team playing with limited tickets and 1/2 the matches on bleeding sky.

On a side note, shouldnt it be available for some of the E.L clubs (2 of the bigger dublin clubs) to share. Like what Milan and Inter do in the San Sira. They might as well make use of it. Plus they should play all Cup finals there and future UEFA Cup and Champions League matches.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1244034&issue_id=11373
The draw has provoked an extraordinary wave of patriotism and the old Belfast ground is set to rock as it will be filled to its 14,000 capacity.

Looks like the capacity of Winsor park is only 14,000. That rules out any matches being played there... and I thought we had it bad with 42,000

Mossy Monk

thejollyrodger wrote:

50,000 - 9,000 seats = a 42,000 seater stadium

41,000

Big Ears

I think he ment to take away 8,000 .

Windsor goes up to 18,500 when terracing is allowed .

eirebhoy

VinnyL wrote:

and what are they doing between now and 2006? pull the finger out lads!

Playing the qualifiers. Even if they have the plans finished in 2005 they have to wait until this batch of qualifiers are over.

People have to remember that this stadium has to be built as this is the last time bucket seats are allowed by Fifa and that would leave the capacity at 22-24k.

thejollyrodger

yeah, i meant to take away 8,000. That math must look funny

Windsor goes up to 18,500 when terracing is allowed .

Terracing cant be used so why count it :S

In the Irish Times, it says that they will have planning permission done by late 2005 and construction will begin in late 2006. They dont exactly know if they when they will finish the stadium but there is enough time laid down to cover everything. If the local residents were happy it could be finished a lot quicker.

It looks like they will have a screen in the corner, (like ARSEnal) of the new stadium. A nice added feature The stadium is being built to "enhanced" standard, similar to Croker (but obviously not as big). Hence the extra cost compared to some of the stadia being built in England.

I think it will be the dogs bollocks, only the size is the only problem and slow rate of progress. The GAA came to an agreement to use it, but wont budge on Croker yet. How unfair is that

Third_Echelon

First thing first... it will be a snowballs chance in hell of rep.of.ireland playing their home games in windsor park!!!

Has anyone ever been there or know the area??? If you did you wouldnt even mention this mad idea. I think its a non-starter from the off, plus its a crap stadium...

50,000 is an adequate number of seats. Having 10,000 - 20,000 more seats on top of that costs a lot more money to install, plus the fact that for some games they wont sell 70,000 tickets and those seats are then lost revenue. They have to balance up what their average attendance would be and therefore plan for that figure so they always or nearly always make a profit for every game hosted at the stadium.

Do you really think that 70,000 people would go to ireland vs cyprus on saturday? quite possibly but unlikely in my opinion...

If the GAA dont allow croke park to be used when the FAI and IRFU are homeless for a few years, that will be a complete joke. Its not only the FAI and IRFU that will lose money because of this, the local business and most of dublin will lose a lot of revenue in the process... If you are ever in town over a 6-nations weekend in dublin the town is always packed... hotels, bars, restaurants etc will all lose out....

The new stadium will be well worth it all though... hopefully the GAA get over their stubborness...

StickyMcGinty

Third_Echelon wrote:

Do you really think that 70,000 people would go to ireland vs cyprus on saturday? quite possibly but unlikely in my opinion...

judging by the queue in merrion square on thursday morning... yes!

people dont seem to get it that the interest IS here! 25,000 for shels home game v depor, we would have sold 70,000 for that game.


swiss game, france game garaunteed sell out- even if you were 10,000 short for all the other games your still making a BIG profit. Its not about numbers for the team anyway, its about atmosphere. i hope there is a big canopy roof, can the roof be closed?

i want an atmosphere like in turkey (except for, ye know, the killing and stuff) a "welcome to hell" sign, instead of "welcome to D4" would be nice!

Big Ears

aye , maybe we could sing some chants in Irish to scare the opposition..................................So thats why Irish is taught in schools .

Third_Echelon

VinnyL wrote:

25,000 for shels home game v depor, we would have sold 70,000 for that game.

i think that was because it was a top spanish side playing against shelbourne.... that wouldnt be the regular opposition at landsdowne..

thejollyrodger

there is a partial roof. A see through job that covers all of the seating but not the pitch. If the GAA let soccer in, it could pay for flood lighting and put a roof on Croker

Big Ears

Why am I imagining a slioter hitting off the roof in Croker , stopping the ball from going over the bar , or ends up putting it in the net .

anyone got any theories ?

super_furry

There should be a concerted boycott effort by Irish football supporters on the GAA, if we're forced to leave the country to watch Ireland play home games.

The situation is messed up and a combination of government and FAI incompetence have us in this situation but if the GAA are so unwilling to support an Irish team, when they readily welcome the big bucks of American Football and the like, then there should be a boycott.

Imposter

Third_Echelon wrote:

50,000 is an adequate number of seats. Having 10,000 - 20,000 more seats on top of that costs a lot more money to install, plus the fact that for some games they wont sell 70,000 tickets and those seats are then lost revenue. They have to balance up what their average attendance would be and therefore plan for that figure so they always or nearly always make a profit for every game hosted at the stadium.

I don't agree. Rugby would sell out a 70k stadium for all but maybe the Italy games and a few challenges. Soccer would sell out minimum 1, (every 2 years, i'm talking about) but more likely about half of their competitive games and come quite close with a lot of others. What they should consider is how small of a crowd turns opening the stadium into a loss making venture. If Croker is somewhere in the region of 22k then say 20k is reasonable for the new Lansdowne. Now how many games would be under this amount?

As for croker and a roof it was designed without one. It doesn't really need one. As for anything hitting a roof if one was there I don't think so. It's so high up that the only thing near the roof would be low flying aircraft.

super_furry wrote:

There should be a concerted boycott effort by Irish football supporters on the GAA, if we're forced to leave the country to watch Ireland play home games.

The situation is messed up and a combination of government and FAI incompetence have us in this situation but if the GAA are so unwilling to support an Irish team, when they readily welcome the big bucks of American Football and the like, then there should be a boycott.

If when you say Irish football supporters you mean soccer supporters then I doubt there's much boycotting needed. If you mean gaelic football supporters who are also soccer supporters surely you must see that they will have diveided loyalties and it's highly unlikely that they'd boycott GAA games. Ireland won't be forced to leave the country to play these games. The FAI and/or the IRFU will decide to do that. They do have other, not so profitable, options available to them.

I doubt the GAA made all that much from hosting American football in Croker. In relation to that though, a once off game is a lot different to 10ish games over a 2 year period.

Bateman

One of the things that really pisses me off about the whole thing is how the FAI/IRFU wil lbe ensuring that the pitch will be of sufficient dimensions to host GAA games. Bollox to that. And the football fans will be 50 yards behind the goal, thus we'd have a better view now than we'll have in the new super stadium. :rolleyes: :mad:

Pigman II

Bateman wrote:

One of the things that really pisses me off about the whole thing is how the FAI/IRFU wil lbe ensuring that the pitch will be of sufficient dimensions to host GAA games. Bollox to that. And the football fans will be 50 yards behind the goal, thus we'd have a better view now than we'll have in the new super stadium. :rolleyes: :mad:

Agreed, whilst they're at it why not stick an athletics track and a moat in there too to move people even FURTHER from the action.

The GAA don't seem to be interested in helping anyone but the GAA ... so why should a stadium for Soccer/Rugby (and part funded by the FAI/IRFU) be tailored for their needs?

thejollyrodger

how far back will you be from the goal in the new landsdowne road, is it really that far In that case they shouldnt bother with GAA. Playing a soccer match in Croker might see very remote.

They can still line out soccer to the biggest its allowed. What the difference then ?