Aer Lingus to axe all UK and Europe business travel

The full story is in todays Irish independent available online (if you register for free) here.
This has caused major complaints from companies based here.
They are also believed to be withdrawing from the one world alliance.

Customer service staff at the state airline said they were receiving irate phone calls from major multi-national companies. The withdrawal from the One World Alliance is a direct result of the switch to a no-frills operation. Because it cannot provide a linked-up business class service, Aer Lingus will no longer be connected to airlines such as British Airways, American Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Quantas and Finn Air.
"It has been murder at ground level here over the past few weeks, and it's causing major ructions with companies who are used to booking with us," an Aer Lingus employee said.
"Companies have been coming up and threatening to pull out of Ireland if this goes ahead. People are asking to speak to Willie Walsh, and they are now saying they will contact the Minister for Transport direct.

I don't think this is a wise move.The London business section is nearly always packed from what I can see,it's said to be lucrative and it doesn't look good to be packing high class business executives into economy.

leeroybrown

Hmmm .. this doesn't sound good. "Ryanair 2" without the management to pull it off?

Most big businesses just have a travel agent who puts their employees on a business class flight. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a large portion of Aer Lingus revenue. These employees won't be put in economy/no-frills so they'll just end up with another carrier.

BuffyBot

This has been coming for a long while. Hardly a surprise with the way they're going.

The_Conductor

leeroybrown wrote:

Hmmm .. this doesn't sound good. "Ryanair 2" without the management to pull it off?

Most big businesses just have a travel agent who puts their employees on a business class flight. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a large portion of Aer Lingus revenue. These employees won't be put in economy/no-frills so they'll just end up with another carrier.

Not necessarily- in the case of the civil service- who would traditionally have comprised a large amount of the business travel particularly on the Brussels route- as part of the cutbacks over the last year or so all flights have been economy- but for the most part on the same carrier (Aerlingus). Personally, I think the destination airport will determine the choice of carrier- as opposed to the choice of carrier. E.g. do you want to go to Stansted or do you want to go to Heathrow (Ryanair versus Aerlingus).......

Thoughts?

dmeehan

will AL continue to fly to LHR? I cant see them beeing a "low cost carrier" and continue flying to LHR

Victor

No doubt, many are worried about their airmiles. :rolleyes: The luxury it is to be middle / senior management.

ArphaRima

AL will continue to go to LHR. It is these LHR slots that give the company its value. There will be no change here I predict.

BuffyBot

will AL continue to fly to LHR?

They will not give up the LHR slots under any circumstances I imagine. bmi class them selves as a "low-fares" carrier of sorts and still use LHR

Flukey

Business Class? All it is is being able to sit on the other side of a the curtain in the exact same seats with a complimentary Irish Times! They have a few other privileges and the ability to make quick bookings. If anything it'll save money for business as they will be paying the cheaper rates. Not a lot of difference really.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/3865950?view=Eircomnet

Aer Lingus likely to pull out of Oneworld alliance
From:ireland.com
Wednesday, 25th August, 2004

Aer Lingus is likely to pull out of the Oneworld alliance of eight international airlines when its members meet in three months, The Irish Times has learned.

The State airline is understood to be considering its position in the alliance in light of the fact that it has reinvented itself as a low-fares carrier, which is not fully compatible with the full-service model offered by Oneworld's other members.

Aer Lingus management, led by chief executive Mr Willie Walsh made its position clear to the rest of the alliance at a meeting four months ago.

Oneworld is due to meet again in November, and sources said last night that it was possible that the Irish flag carrier would signal its intention to pull out of the alliance at that stage. As the alliance involves offering standard service on all eight airlines, membership of Oneworld would require Aer Lingus to maintain full service on all its routes.

However, it intends to eliminate business class seats from all flights to the UK and Europe by next April, but maintain them on transatlantic routes.

Sources said yesterday that other Oneworld members wanted to stick with a more traditional approach to air travel, while others were not as exposed as Aer Lingus to low-cost competitors like Ryanair and Easyjet.

"British Airways loses money on short-haul routes and says it is happy to do that, and some of the US airlines are a lot more insulated from competition and the government there keeps giving them money," one observer said.

Oneworld's other members are: American Airways, LanChile, Quantas, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Finnair and British Airways. Membership allows the airlines to sell passengers flights on the other seven, thus offering a larger variety of routes.

However, Aer Lingus has stated that it is more focused on expanding its own network of routes in Europe and the US.

Meanwhile, the company's management will face 50 SIPTU shop stewards, representing 2,400 workers from around the country, at a meeting in Dublin later today. The meeting is being held to discuss both Aer Lingus's plan to cut 1,325 jobs over three years and the terms of the redundancy package on offer.

The union's members have already voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action and its officials have warned that it will take this action if the company attempts to act unilaterally or to force workers into accepting redundancy.

Mr Christy McQuillan of SIPTU last night told The Irish Times that his organisation was primarily concerned with maximising the number of jobs in the airline, which he argued was the most successful State-owned company.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/3866168?view=Eircomnet

Aer Lingus to axe business class and quit world alliance
From:The Irish Independent
Wednesday, 25th August, 2004





AER Lingus is to axe its business class and pull out of the One World Alliance.

The moves are part of the change to a no-frills airline which has already provoked fury from commercial users.

Exporters discovered last week that interline cargo would not be carried from September 1, and no cargo anywhere in Europe from January 1.

Customer service staff at the state airline said they were receiving irate phone calls from major multi-national companies.

The withdrawal from the One World Alliance is a direct result of the switch to a no-frills operation. Because it cannot provide a linked-up business class service, Aer Lingus will no longer be connected to airlines such as British Airways, American Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Quantas and Finn Air.

The corporate service telephone lines have already been given the chop in the past few weeks, meaning business class customers have to book on the internet and make any complaints by e-mail.

"It has been murder at ground level here over the past few weeks, and it's causing major ructions with companies who are used to booking with us," an Aer Lingus employee said.

"Companies have been coming up and threatening to pull out of Ireland if this goes ahead. People are asking to speak to Willie Walsh, and they are now saying they will contact the Minister for Transport direct.

"The whole point of business class is that you can ring and book flights at the drop of a hat. And the business class section on the flights is always full, don't let anyone tell you otherwise."

The Aer Lingus source questioned why Willie Walsh was being allowed to make these changes prior to an official go ahead for privatisation.

A spokeswoman for the airline confirmed business class within Europe would cease from the second quarter of next year.

She added: "Membership of the One World Alliance is being re-evaluated, and the other members of the alliance are aware of this."

Meanwhile, Siptu shop stewards at the company are to seek a bumper pay rise of up to 15pc when they meet today to discuss their response to restructuring plans.

The airline has outlined radical plans to lay off 1,325 workers in a move that has raised fears among those who remain that they will be asked to do more work.

No decision has yet been taken by the union officials on the size of the pay claim being demanded for staff who remain after the lay-offs, but a figure of between 10pc and 15pc is seen as likely.

Yesterday Siptu's Aer Lingus branch secretary Christy McQuillan would not discuss a pay claim figure but confirmed the shop stewards were to seek a "sizeable wage claim".

Workers who remain with the airline want to ensure they too can share in the benefits of future growth based on their increased productivity and cost effectiveness, he added.

The union warned that its members have already given it an overwhelming mandate for industrial action if necessary.

Mr McQuillan said that the union did not accept there was a need to sacrifice such a large numbers of jobs.

Helen Bruce and Charlie Weston

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/3866438?view=Eircomnet

Aer Lingus to end business class from 2005
From:ireland.com
Wednesday, 25th August, 2004

Aer Lingus is to cease offering business class seating on its flights and plans to withdraw from the
inter-airline corporate service One World Alliance as part of its move to becoming a low cost carrier.

Business class customers already have to book online following the ending of the business class telephone lines. Business class services within Europe will end some time after March 2005, the airline said.

The announcement comes in the midst of a major restructuring being sought by the airline which will involve the loss of 1,325 staff.

Siptu representatives are due to meet today to decide a response to the company's plans. It is expected that the union will seek a pay rise for those who remain with the airline after restructuring.

The union was recently given a mandate for protective industrial action.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/3867667?view=Eircomnet

Siptu demands meeting over Aer Lingus plan
From:ireland.com
Wednesday, 25th August, 2004

Siptu shop stewards at Aer Lingus are demanding the chief executive Mr Willie Walsh lifts the September 14th deadline for the acceptance of mass redundancy package so proper negotiations can take place.

Around 50 shop stewards representing 2,400 workers meet management this afternoon for the first time since the company formally announced its intention to shed over 1,200 jobs over the next three years.

Speaking after the meeting SIPTU National Industrial Secretary Mr Michael Halpenny described the situation as "gun to the head negotiations at a time when even management agrees there is no immediate crisis or threat to the national carrier."

"The Government, as the principal shareholder, has primary responsibility to ensure that 1,325 reasonably secure and well paid jobs are not shed at the whim of a badly thought out, purely commercially driven plan, which has no regard to the wider community interest," Mr Halpenny added.

Earlier today the Siptu branch secretary Mr Christy McQuillan warned: "The union does not accept there is a need to sacrifice large numbers of jobs."

Siptu members have already voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action and despite its warning that it will take action if the company acts unilaterally, management says implementation of the plan has already begun.

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/0825/aerlingus.html

Aer Lingus chief made meeting offer
August 25, 2004 19:36

RTE News understands that Aer Lingus chief executive Willie Walsh this evening offered to meet SIPTU's national industrial secretary, Michael Halpenny, to discuss the airline's business plan. The offer was rejected.

It is understood it was made on the basis of a one-to-one meeting, whereas SIPTU is seeking full negotiations with the airline's management.

Following a meeting of SIPTU shop stewards at Aer Lingus today, the union called for a meeting with Mr Walsh to take place by Friday. The union also called on Aer Lingus to lift next month's deadline for accepting the company's redundancy offer.

SIPTU national industrial secretary Michael Halpenny said that if the meeting were not forthcoming a general meeting of SIPTU members would be called on Saturday and the matter would be referred to the National Implementation Body. Notice of industrial action served by SIPTU on Aer Lingus expires on Friday.

Meanwhile, the airline has cited an average 60% reduction in its short-haul business class passengers over the past three years as its reason for phasing out the service.

It is understood that in the next two months it will remove all booking restrictions on its short haul routes to increase flexibility for passengers. Transatlantic routes will continue to offer business class.

The loss of business class on routes will impact on the company's membership of the One World alliance. Membership of the alliance allows Aer Lingus to sell tickets on seven partner airlines and so increase the amount of routes it can offer customers. These partners include British Airways and American Airways.

However, as a low cost carrier the airline will not be able to offer the full service demanded as part of One World membership.

Aer Lingus has told the Irish Exporters' Association that the airline's decision to discontinue its short-haul cargo operation is final. It will also cease its cargo agreements with other airlines.

The exporters are calling on Transport Minister Seamus Brennan to force Aer Lingus to release its cargo facilities to the private sector.

The chief executive of the Irish Exporters' Association John Whelan told RTE News the decision would leave many companies in a 'messy situation'. He is calling on the Department of Transport to force Aer Lingus to release its cargo facilities to the private sector for what he described as a 'strategic service'.

Aer Lingus says it intends to retain its Transatlantic cargo service and its service to Germany which together makes up 88% of its cargo business. It says the majority of other short haul traffic is now carried by road.

* Lufthansa Cargo, the air freight division of German flag carrier Lufthansa, plans to reduce its workforce by 10% by 2006 as part of a programme aimed at saving €233m a year.

EvilDoctorK

The market has changed a lot in the last few years for short haul business class travel.. changes in Airline tariffs have effectively removed the market for Business travel on a lot of routes.

It used to be (only maybe 2 years ago) that if you wanted to go to London for the day on Aer Lingus you had to buy a business class ticket .. you could not purchase a cheap (or evey expensive) economy class ticket without staying a Saturday night (I think they later reduced this to staying a minimum of 2 nights).

The reason that premier class was always very large on Heathrow flights was that business travellers were effectively forced to purchase Premier class tickets as they were the "cheapest" availabe fares for overnight/same day travel to London. If I recall correctly it was something like £280 return - for "discounted" business class ... the did sell economy tickets with no minimum stay for £1 more expensive - obviously nobody purchased those.

These days are long gone now ... on almost all Airlines to/from Ireland it is now possible to buy Economy class tickets on day returns / short stays without difficulty.. Therefore the market for short haul business class tickets has reduced an awful lot.

Nowadays most companies (for Short haul flights at least) would have a policy of Economy class travel so people won't book business if they don't have to (even if some may like to!). The main reason that people fly business class on short hauls now is when the flight is fully or nearly full booked so the airline decides to only sell business class tickets (which is rare enough usually you can get economy seats)

As has well been pointed out there's really sod all difference between business and economy on board on short haul nobody is going to pay a premium with their own money to get that "service" .. For many people one of the key advantages to business class travel is access to airport lounges .. however most people who travel frequenty would have access to these lounges anyway through frequent flyer schemes so that further undermines a reason for flying business class (Aer lingus have recently butchered their TAB frequent flyer programme.. but that's another story)

Long haul is a different story and Aer Lingus recognise this and are keeping Business on long haul... people will pay a premium for that (maybe not the premium at full list price) .. and many company travel policies for corporate travel would allow business class flights on long haul routes.

sliabh

I used the AL business class a lot last year for flights into and out of Heathrow (and London City before it got the ax). Just to knock a few of the myths on the head about it.

My employer had such a large volume of traffic on the route that we got preferential rates for the seats. So it wasn't that much more expensive. The big gains for me were:
a) Sitting at the front of the plane means you save time getting off.
b) They let you take two carry on bags, so you are faster on and off again.
c) You got breakfast as well as the Irish Times, so you get 30 minutes more in bed in the morning. This is a big plus when you are on the 6:40 or 7:20 out of Dublin)

For my employer they:
a) Got priority booking so we had a better chance of getting seats at busy times
b) The ticket was fully flexible and refundable. And this is the one that trumps all the others. It didn't happen all the time, but it was often enough that I had to change plans or even could not make the flight time. So AL would happily rebook me on another flight without any extra charge. In one instance I contacted them about 30 minutes before the flight was due to depart (from a taxi stuck in traffic) and I was able to get on a later flight.

This was the big benefit of business. The flexibility. I worked it out that my bosses saved money (and my aggrevation) by being able to change flights without having to buy a new ticket or pay some other change charge.

At the moment I am in Germany and it's a pain in the arse. All the flights are booked over the internet and business class is gone. So in most cases to make any change means I pretty much have to buy another ticket. I have been caught several times with this. I for one am missing business class already!

EvilDoctorK

True sliabh ... corporate deals do exist.. flexibility is/was a great benefit

However you can still get the flexbility on economy tickets - it's related to the fare rules not the class of travel - Airlines can and do offer flexible economy tickets .. if you don't just buy the cheapest fares.... on your route to Munich you can buy tickets for €400 r/t which are pretty much fully flexible ... cheaper tickets sure you have change fees / minimum stays etc. (but in large measure that's why they are cheaper.

€400 r/t for a flexible ticket on a route of around 1000 miles is a fabulous deal compared to what you used to be able to get.

I recall being caught (in Munich as it happens) last year after having missed my (non Aer Lingus) flight.. I had to buy a new one way ticket back to Dublin at the last minute.... but it only cost me just over €200 and I purchased it 20 minutes before the flight left - it's hard to argue with that kind of pricing. A few years ago that would not have been possible .. they'd have been looking to stick me for a €500+ one way fare business class (and I would have paid it too - not with my own € of course )

Sure flexibility is good .. but reductions in fares generally mean it's not that big a deal anymore .. the premium you pay for flexibility probalby isn't that worth it anymore. Flying to London might be a bit more worth it as if you finish early you may be able to change to an earlier flight... but on destinations like Munich where there's only one flight most days anyway I'd guess it's less used in general.

I've travelled business class with Aer lingus a lot in the last year and I'd have to say I agree with sliabh on this.

The two carry on bags and the extra weight allowance is invaluable.I travel light and can bring a small luggage case with me as carry on, so not only do I get off the plane first but I don't have to wait for the luggage carousel either-I'm direct out hassle free to the heathrow express and into town.
I've also found the front section to be full or nearly full mostly

And as regards space-if you have an A or C seat you have a lot of space as the middle one isn't there and effectively a table.
There is more seat pitch also.

EvilDoctorK

Earthman, Cabin Baggage allowances on Aer Lingus are the same for Premier and Economy 1 piece only ... 6kg max, 23cmx35cmx46cm max - you can check it yourself on Aer Lingus.com ->Services ->Baggage Info ... Now enforcement of it maybe a completely different story as we all know

Seat pitch is the same unless you are in the rearmost quarter of the plane and even there it's only 1" or so tighter - On most of the Aer Lingus short haul planes there is a variable divider between Business and Economy .. they can move it all the way back to nearly the back of the plane .... In the "good old days" you could be in Premier on the first flight to LHR and still be in Row 20+ ... You do get a bit of extra space width wise yes - however I think on the newer Airbus aircraft they will not have this as the seats will be fixed .. can't be converted from 3-3 into 2-3 config.

sliabh

EvilDoctorK wrote:

Earthman, Cabin Baggage allowances on Aer Lingus are the same for Premier and Economy 1 piece only ... 6kg max, 23cmx35cmx46cm max - you can check it yourself on Aer Lingus.com ->Services ->Baggage Info ... Now enforcement of it maybe a completely different story as we all know

Nah, they never enforce that in business. I have never been stopped with my laptop and overnight bag. Even when it was on the Bae 146's into City.

EvilDoctorK

EvilDoctorK wrote:

Earthman, Cabin Baggage allowances on Aer Lingus are the same for Premier and Economy 1 piece only ... 6kg max, 23cmx35cmx46cm max - you can check it yourself on Aer Lingus.com ->Services ->Baggage Info ... Now enforcement of it maybe a completely different story as we all know

Well I actually travel aerlingus to London but as a codeshare on BA and travel as per their guidelines,they allow 3 times the weight for club than economy for carry on but to be technical they are limited by whatever code share regulations are.
I've certainly never had any problems.
My small wheeled luggage case is looked at when I collect my boarding pass , would I get away with it in economy?

You do get a bit of extra space width wise yes - however I think on the newer Airbus aircraft they will not have this as the seats will be fixed .. can't be converted from 3-3 into 2-3 config.

Well that wouldn't surprise me given they want a third person in the B seat that currently doesnt exist.
I always look for an A or C by the way as the personal space cannot be matched in Economy or in the DEF in business across the aisle.

sliabh

Earthman wrote:

I always look for an A or C by the way as the personal space cannot be matched in Economy or in the DEF in business across the aisle.

2A myself. 1A has no under-seat space for a bag, and you can rarely get anything into the overhead locker as the cabin staff have things in there (and it's not just the oxygen bottle).

And coming into Dublin the best view is usually out the left side. Looking down over Howth and the city.

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/0903/aerlingus.html

Aer Lingus chief defends changes
September 03, 2004 19:00

Aer Lingus chief executive Willie Walsh has defended the airline's decision to stop carrying cargo on short-haul flights.

He told RTE radio that the amount of cargo carried by Aer Lingus on these routes was 'a drop in the ocean' and there were plenty of alternatives. He said the move 'won't create any national crisis'.

Mr Walsh also said that a decision to withdraw from the One World alliance of airlines had not been taken, though the issue was being reviewed. Responding to suggestions that some of the measures taken by the airline were not in the national interest, he said the national interest was best served by having a strong Aer Lingus.

On the question of ownership, Mr Walsh said management wanted clarity from the Government, but he said the issues facing the business would remain whatever was decided. He said he would be staying on no matter what the Government decided.

* Kevin Foley of the Labour Relations Commission is to act as facilitator for talks between management and unions at Aer Lingus over the airline's business plan.

SIPTU's national industrial secretary, Michael Halpenny, welcomed the appointment.

Talks are due to get underway again next week and are scheduled to conclude by the middle of October.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/3940432?view=Eircomnet

Aer Lingus to begin six weeks of talks with unions
From:ireland.com
Monday, 6th September, 2004

Unions and management at Aer Lingus meet today to begin six weeks of talks on the airline's plan to restructure operations and cut more than 1,300 jobs.

A threat of early industrial action by SIPTU, which represents more than half the company's 4,000 staff, was averted last week after the parties agreed to hold talks through an independent facilitator, Mr Kevin Foley, director of conciliation services at the Labour Relations Commission.

Unions have concerns about a range of issues including the scale of the job cuts envisaged, the redundancy terms on offer and the working conditions of staff who would remain.

Ms Christina Carney, assistant general secretary of the other main union at the company, IMPACT, said yesterday the talks were likely to be "very difficult".

She said the company was seeking changes that would significantly increase the burden on cabin-crew members and pose a risk to their health and well-being. These included proposals to restrict access to part-time working, reduce crew sizes on board flights to the minimum and reduce time off for recovery after transatlantic flights.

IMPACT would be seeking to ensure that crews continued to work under agreed wages and conditions of employment that protected their well-being.

SIPTU has said a priority for unions will be to secure a lifting of the September 14th deadline set by the company for redundancy applications.