a thread only for those who've finished it. [doom3]

dangerman

Hi, so i just finished it. SPOILER WARNING. [see thread title]

Ok where to start? Is this game groundbreaking? yes and no... is it innovative... yes and no... is it good? yes and no...

First of all; where i'm coming from...i grew up playing wolfenstein, doom, doom2... so i know where id are coming from. I can see what they were thinking when they made this game; and also i think why it caused a bit of division in the company.

I can't decide whether this is a good game or not. [bare with me here.]
So the first thing everyone's been talking about; the graphics. Big whoop-de-do, what were you expecting out of carmack after 3/4 years? I expected this level of graphical nicety...in fact i was dissapointed by the lip synching/facial expressions on the characters, its not what i expected...but my expectations were set by the hl2 tech demos a while ago. Like everyone else I was 'hey neat' at the effects. But graphics don't make a game great.

Sound wise...another incredible achievement here...the sounds are very good, definately some of the best audio in a game to date. But again, I expected it.

Controls...nothing new here, standard fps controls. the main interface innovation is a small but neat one, the ability to move up to a control panel and have it switch to a cursor. Very slick.

So onto gameplay: Right. The gameplay of doom3 is the same as doom1. The only difference is the addition of a semi-direct half life rip off story line. Right now I can't think of any gameplay innovation in this game. I was astounded that it was so bereft of any really new fresh ideas. It starts just like half life...it's story arc is similar to half life or system shock2...

That aside, lets talk about atmosphere. I found doom3 scary...for the first little while. there's some nice system shock 2 moments [bloody footprints...women talking, babies crying...] and there's the fright-tactics of monsters popping out of nowhere. But come on. After an hour of play you knew that every time you picked up a conspicuous health pack an imp would jump in in front of you. And also behind. Always behind. Things aren't scary if you do them 5 times to a player.

Doom2 got away with panels opening etc. for monsters because the graphics were so cartoony a suspension of disbelief was necessary to play. Here, the graphics have an unparalled level of detail and realism...they've strived to give the whole thing a look and feel, the base, the monitors etc. Yet we get bizarre side panels that just open for no reason. We have doors that suddenly turn to green when you've killed that rooms alotted monsters. - It destroys the sense of believability your environment is given by the audio/visual.

Another thing that springs to mind was the fact that it became obvious from the start that there wasn't going to be more than 4 or 5 monsters on screen at once. So id made the monsters tougher. I found this incredibly annoying. Imps port in 2 or 3 at a time, they take lots of shots to kill...it becomes a chore when you here that imp screech, you know ur gonna have to jump through the kill an imp loop once again. There's no AI, at all. AI is an important part of making an fps exciting these days. Other games that come out with poor ai are lambasted for it. So should doom. Those chaingun guys...they just stand there and shoot at you...even when ur firing plasma gun right in their face. Its frustrating, it ruins the sense of believability once again given to the game by the engine its running on. - The ragdoll physics only turn on at the 'death shot' - how ridiculous is that? I can shoot that chain guy with my shotgun at almost point blank range, he wont flinch, shoot him again and pow he's flying.

I think i'm right to be harsh. Doom was about jumping into a room full of monsters and blowing the absolute crap out of anything that moved. This game isn't. They've slowed it down, made it look ultra-real, but maintained the hidden panels, armour shards in the corner, dumb monsters style. - I think they've removed the things that made single player doom great, and kept the things that were there as necessities of the technology the earlier games were built on. Every character you meet in the game...you know he's gonna die. You know that when you get back to the monorail that guy will be dead. So much of the early part of the game your objective is to meet up with bravo team. I never once for a second believed [though i hoped] that i'd actually get to meet with bravo team and fight with them.

How many times in doom3 do u walk up to a door and find you dont have access? How many keycards, pdas? It's unbelievably repetitive. A fact hammered home by the bland-ness and sameness of the base around you. No doubt a mars base would all look the same. But it makes for really really boring mind numbing stuff. Suddenly you go to hell and I went 'hey ho hold on a minute this could be great' but that section is short lived...and i was just amazed that they put you back into the base again. There's no real feeling of progression, constantly bombarded with the same [very pretty] textures...its all so dark, all so moody...it wasn't cool.

It's doom. Am I being unfair? Is it wrong to expect doom3's gameplay to keep up with its graphics in terms of innovation? Not sure. Really am not sure. I just thought that if your going to innovate on that level with graphics and sound...well thats' cool for a movie but your not focusing on the element that makes it a great game.

This game is the #1 selling game around the world right now. I really wonder if it is truly a great game or a tech demo. One thing I will give it is it's significantly longer than a lot of games that have been coming out. - You have to go through a lot to get through it, but my point above stands...it's incredibly repetitive mind numbing gameplay.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just upset about one thing. NO SUPER SHOTGUN. The whole game I was waiting for it, hoping for it. Boom click, boom click, the best gun in an fps ever. Oh well.

Love to know what peeps think after playing the whole way through it. Let me know.

Jammer

all that came to you at 5am did it? :P

Personally i got bored after 20mins of running into a room, monsters attacking, shooting them, running into another room, monsters attacking, shooting them....and so on and so forth. Not my cup of tea.

evad_lhorg

haha didnt you know that 5am is the time when you learn new and wonderful things?

having not played doom 3 I cant really comment but I must say I really want to play because I havnt been properly scared of a game except when id hear a chozo ghost in metroid prime and id leg it to the nearest door or when I got to the real ganon in ocarina of time cause I so wasnt expecting him.


doom loks amazing yea but i really dont think it's as big a thing as it's made about to be. the first two were rubbish imo. sure they were kinda original and pretty much made fps popular but I just dont like em.

Giblet

It's......a.....game.

Seriously, just because it didn't change your life doesn't mean it's crap.
I think that people wanted a great game and got a good one and they are pissed off.

No game lives up to the hype, and I guarantee the same will happen with HL2.

P.S. Halflife's story = Rip off of Doom.

Ardent

I haven't finished the game but I can't be too far off now I'd say. I think it's a super game.

Ok, I can understand some people's views on the gameplay - e.g., pick up the health and almost certainly a monster will pop up behind you - or how it can be sometimes predictable, but FFS it's only a game. It's not perfect but for me it's a great gaming experience, it's reminiscent of the old Doom game. The only thing I'd really change is for more outdooor, expansive levels.

Why is it a great game? I can only play it for 1/2 hours max coz it freaks the bejesus out of me. A few times, when I had headphones on and my flat-mate was watching TV, I've scared him by going "ArrrrggghhH!" from time to time, or practically jumping off my chair. Great game.

I don't know if it'll have much replay value once I'm done but I'll ask you a couple of questions - did you enjoy yourself while playing it, were you on the edge of your seat for the majority of it, did the graphics impress you? If you can answer yes to most of these then you bought a damn good game and you're just nit-picking.

dangerman

All the best things happen at 5am!

course i understand its just a game, and it was never gonna live up to the hype, but christ its boring as hell. [hoho] I just wasn't scared by it after the first few levels, i got annoyed at the audio/visual creating an incredible sense of reality and then the gameplay mechanics shattering that.

half life is a rip off of doom? yeh i see that, but half life did it in a fantastically good and original way. Doom lifts all those ideas straight off of it, but some i guess would argue it has a right to.

I dunno. I just hoped that id would have had the balls to really innovate on a level that carmack was doing with the graphics. I know when you do that you run the risk of making daikatana, but i feel they really had a chance to push the envelope or whatever. We'll see with half life 2 - valve have constantly surprised me with their level of innovation; steam being the most obvious - love it or hate it it's an incredible technical achievement. I hope i'm right in hoping that they really push the boat out with hl2.


Perhaps my reaction is just annoyance at the amount of reviews gushing over the game. It's not that good. It doesn't deserve 92%. I'd say its an ok-ish game. Imagine it didnt have the ground breaking graphics/sound? It would have been universally trashed. Completely slated everywhere. People would have laughed at the get the keycard, kill the teleporting monsters rubbish. I think it's getting away with it in a style over substance way.

edit [to respond to ardents questions]

did you enjoy yourself while playing it?

no not really. i found it boring, and played through it to see if it would surprise me in anyway.

were you on the edge of your seat for the majority of it?

Definately not. As I said i got a few scares at the start, but it settled into the exact same scare tactics and I became completely disinterested.

did the graphics impress you?

yep. They're impressive.

Thats a good point you made about replay value. What replay value does it have? I guess we'd be relying on the mod community for replay value as I could certainly never bring myself to play it again. Sometime I'll give multiplayer a go I guess.

RuggieBear

dangerman wrote:

Imagine it didnt have the ground breaking graphics/sound? It would have been universally trashed. Completely slated everywhere. People would have laughed at the get the keycard, kill the teleporting monsters rubbish. I think it's getting away with it in a style over substance way.

Spot on dangerman....

magick

well it personally think its the setting that some people complain about, yes it sometimes is a little repetitive but i liked it, besides your on a research station, its not ment to look very different or pretty. How many times have you walked around a factory/oil rig/Industial Complex in amazement ? Not many i guess, so in a way the base had to be bland in some areas.

Dooom

I know this is slightly off topic, but I was watching Gamer TV today (Bravo) and there was a review of Doom 3. The presenter was going on about the graphics etc. and then I heard him say that it was just a remake and not a sequel. Is that just him or is that true? If so it's the first I've heard of it.

Personally I liked Doom 3 a lot. The graphics were amazing, even though I never really judge a game on its appearance. But I must admit I felt as if there was something missing from it. I can't really describe it, but aside from everything great about it...it just felt a bit empty. None the less, it's a very good game. Roll on Half-Life 2!

Deadwing

What do you want the game to do? Fix you dinner, followed by a blow job?? *L*
I mean come on, they hype was huge around this game, but all along ID said it was basically going to be old school gameplay with next gen graphics. And that what you go. Outstanding graphics, amazing atmosphere, tense gunplay, and more memorable moments per level than some games manage in thier entire playtime.
It was never touted as being a revolutionary game play experience, so if you take it at face value as a hugely enjoyable shoot em up, its a 10 out of 10.
The teleporting monsters, suspend disbelief for 2 minutes and remember its a game. The physics i think, are excellent. Play something like max payne and you see physics gone mad. Men fly 20 feet into the air doing cartwheels after an explosion and it looks cool, but its laughable. Doom 3's physics may be less in your face, but shoot a zombie int he shoulder when he coming at you, his body twists int he right direction and looks natural, kill them they drop to the ground as youd expect. To me i think thats a damn sight better than bodies spinning through the air like max payne.

Dooom

Deadwing wrote:

What do you want the game to do? Fix you dinner, followed by a blow job?? *L*

Dude....that should be in an expansion pack. "Doom 3 - Your B*tch."

dangerman

Why are ppl saying 'remember this is a game' ? What do you think I think it is? My thread was really just a review.

It's a very average game based on old gameplay mechanics with phenomenal audio visual.

Where others see tense exciting gun play, I see monsters with no AI and very little variation. Half life had more to it.

To me Serious Sam makes a better stab at an enjoyable shootemup than this. Cause it doesn't fall between two stools, it is what it is. Doom3 confuses itself by slowing down the game, being ultra repetitive, but still paying homage to its predecessors. Remember the ending of doom2? Remember what kind of fight that was with all those monsters? I don't care about what id said they were making, I'm just dissapointed with what they've made.

For a game to impress me it has to innovate at its core. It has to present something new or improve on something old with lots of innovation. I just don't see how from a gameplay perspective doom added anything to it. I hope other developers don't start to think they can get away with that kind of crap. Most of all it has to be fun. Doom3 was fun for the first while, but once I copped on to what was going on it all became very samey to me.

I guess I just thought that as technology gets better gameplay should be improved along side it. No one's playing pong with the doom3 engine because people would be just 'thats just pong that looks pretty.' I don't buy games to play the same game again with new textures.

It's down to what you expect from games. It's whether the doom style fps with its door locked find thing to unlock door, vent plasma to unlock door, make machine go to unlock door... i thought the bar had been raised above this. I think I'm right to expect more. And it's why i'm dissapointed with it. - I thought id were meant to be innovators. They sure have in the past.

I'm aware that a lot of people love this kind of game, that's what they want. So i'm not attacking anyone for liking the game, I just can't feel the same way.

uberpixie

Doom3 is an 80% game. Not a top 10 game of all time.

It is: atmospheric and will keep you on the edge of your seat.The gfx especially the shadows and lighting and sound really make the atmosphere. I have a bog 2.1 set and the positional sound was really good.

I enjoyed the game for the way it kept me on my toes and the edge of my seat for a lot of the game. True the scare tactics DO get repedative but they do keep you sharp.

ID made doom3 to show off it's engine. Lets face it:ID really sell engines, thats how they make a lot of their money. Look at any of their games they have made in the last while.

Quake 1: was doom dressed up in shiny gfx. Never played it much. Played demo thought it was ok. Deathmatch was great though....

Quake 2: was doom dressed up in better gfx with more cyborgs. Never saw why people raved about it. Sold engine like hotcakes. ok deathmatch.

Quake 3: pure multiplay, nice way to learn how to death match but not a single player game. Sold engine engine like hotcakes. nice deathmatch.

RTCW: good old fashioned romp with nice gfx for the time on an aging q3 engine. Fun start crap finish. Seemingly great multiplayer ET (never played ET too much)

Doom3: nice gfx, nice atmosphere, nice sound. Fun start, crap finish. Crap bosses(lets be honest). Will sell engine like hotcakes. Pants multiplayer.

ID really have not made a truely inovative game since wolfenstein. But some of them have been good fun. Not as fantastic as some reviews would have you believe but ok.

No one expected doom3 to be fresh or new. Not really. Doom3 is a bench mark. Thats why I bought it. That the fact it was a half deacent game is nice.

I had my fun.

koneko

The ending was disappointing, I was expecting the Cyberdemon to be a bit tougher than that.

uberpixie

koneko wrote:

The ending was disappointing, I was expecting the Cyberdemon to be a bit tougher than that.

What doing five laps around hell, shooting dumb imps in the face with the plasma rifle and every now and then throw the soul cube at the cyber deamon was NOT FUN?

Zombrex

Deadwing wrote:

What do you want the game to do? Fix you dinner, followed by a blow job?? *L*

I expected the game to build upon the 10 years of game evolution since that last Doom not just simply re-copy the same very very tired formula.

Just as it was kinda hard to look at Doom in the same light after Quake came out, it is kinda hard to look at Doom 3 after Half-Life, System Shock 2, Golden Eye, Theif, Far Cry etc etc and go "wow the Doom formula is still fresh" because its not. As someone has said run-into-room-shoot-spawning-monster run-into-other-room is very very tired formula to base and entire 50 yo-yos game around these days.

WIth all the money, expertise and time id Software had to put into the game you would think they would have sat down and said "ok we have to make this game fresh." Instead they spend all their time on the graphics and level design (both high quality) and forgot they actually have to stick a good game into it.

Ardent

I like the old, very tired formula. Straighforward gaming.

Spacedog

I'm posting on this thread and I've bearly played the game, let alone finished it! Hahahahahaha Wooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Deadwing

People who say 'its just doom with fancy graphics' just dont get it. It may be just that, doom with better graphics, but its a sh!tload of fun, its got great memorable scenes, some of the best, most inventive enemies ever seen in a game, and some of the best atmosphere ive experienced. People who complain that 'it doesnt have vehicles', 'it doesnt have night vision goggles and stealth sequences and high tech gadgets and blah blah not as good as far cry etc etc' should just go and fucking play far cry. Doom is about dark, claustrophobic locations, having enemies jump out at you from nowhere to put the sh!ts up you, not about tear-assing around in vehicles across wide open plains and hunting monsters through a sniper scope. It about up close and personal shotgun-in-the face blasting, its about crapping yourself every time you hear an imp scream cause you know the bastards behind you. Its about sittin on that sofa stuffin f*ckin junk food in your mouth errr.. Choose life, choose doom3.