Criminal Justice Bill 2004

Sparks

And the Minister now making the point that there is no right to bear arms and there is a right to public safety, so we shouldn't know some guidelines....

Sparks

It'd be nice if the Minister wouldn't keep laughing his head off at the though of consulting with us.

Amendment 94 defeated.
Amendment 95 defeated.
Amendment 96 put to a general vote.

newby.204

Right exactly what made it through and what didn?????

Sparks

It's not done yet newby...

Sparks

96 defeated, 67-60.

Sparks

And it's adjourned. 97-103 will be discussed when they resume (which I think is at 2030).

Sparks

No, scrap that, the adjournment was for the vote. They're discussing 97-103 now.

Sparks

98, which says that clay pigeon shooters should be in a clay pigeon club, the Minister opposes.

100 and 101 being opposed to the Minister saying that you can get a training cert instead of competence in a similar firearm being acceptable.

Sparks

102 is O'Keefe's amendment that we should have sufficient mental health to hold a firearm. Minister says this isn't needed as the super can access your medical records now.

Sparks

The Minister is saying that this amendment (102) would need the super to determine if everyone was in good mental health before giving them a gun. He appears to have forgotten about the "unsound mind" or "intemperate habits" parts of section 8...

Sparks

Howlin's pointing out the clay pigeon team's successes and saying they should be able to get a licence for target shooting.

He's also pointing out that you're required to prove that you're sane now and for the next three years to get a licence.

He's also asking how competence is to be determined in the use of a firearm.

Sparks

O'Keefe's asking why a dentist was initially proposed as an arbitrator of mental health of an applicant...

Sparks

Discussion now on which health professional should be asked to make the determination.

Sparks

*groan*
The discussion on clay pigeon shooting is miserably bad to listen to in terms of information...

Sparks

Amendment 97 agreed to.
Amendment 98 withdrawn.
(The Minister has given an assurance that olympic clay pigeon target shooting will not be affected and if he's wrong, he'll say so in the Seanad).

Amendment 99 withdrawn.
Amendment 100 withdrawn.
Amendment 101 defeated.
Amendment 102 defeated.
Amendment 103 withdrawn.

104&105 being discussed.

Sparks

104 is about the catch-22 in the club authorisation so that the authorisation's conditions cannot prevent those gaining competence on the range from shooting there.

Howlin's laying this out fairly clearly.

Sparks

Waffle from the Minister, saying that if incompetent people use the range, it must be designed so it's safe for them to use...

Sparks

Amendment 104 withdrawn, the Minister assuring us that trainees can use ranges...

Sparks

Amendment 105 passed.

106, 107 being discussed. These are on the firearms range inspectors and saying that a garda sargent or superintendent accompany them.

Jacobo

Do all other Irish laws mean what they don't say?

Sparks

The Minister feels the amendments aren't necessary.

Aengus O'Snodaigh arguing that a garda has to be there when a range is inspected, but he won't press it.

Sparks

Amendments 107 and 106 withdrawn.

108-110 being discussed. Minister wants to go back to committee at this point.

Minister is saying that the amendment (f) any person not ordinarily resident in the State for a period of 6 months before applying for a firearm certificate.”.”. might prohibit tourist shooters so he wants to amend that amendment.
This was agreed.

Sparks

Jacobo wrote:

Do all other Irish laws mean what they don't say?

Often! (edit - that's a joke of course. Get into a court and you find out pretty fast that the law has no sense of common sense or of humour...)

111 is being discussed - it raises the age at which you can become a firearms dealer from 18 to 21.

Sparks

110 was withdrawn, by the way.

Sparks

111 passed, 112 was withdrawn and 113 is being discussed (this is on reloading equipment and supplies and says they have to be securely stored seperate from living quarters)

Sparks

Minister says that his advice is that with reloading, the supplies and gear are small and it's more secure to have the gear at home.

Sparks

Minister also says that the Gardai have said that your own home is a more secure spot than a seperate building.

Sparks

Minister has also said that the reloading has to be both secure (alarms, etc) and safe, ie that you don't reload with the kids in the same room.

Amendment 113 withdrawn.
Amendment 114 passed.

115-120, 129-159, 162-167 now being discussed. These are all on criminal aspects of the Firearms Acts (I think).

Sparks

Mostly these amendments are getting in minimum sentences.

168 is where the firearms acts amendments end, by the way. But there are more firearms amendments to be discussed after these, including the one which says we don't have to have a reply to an application for a licence.

Sparks

A fair bit of chatting on the minimum sentences. None of this affects us though, it's all to do with the criminal parts of the Firearms Act.

The minister has said, however, that anyone with a Glock pistol in their pocket is a danger to the public. Kindof shows his subconcious thinking on fullbore pistols methinks.