Gah.

burger king

Right, I don't really need advice, I just need to air this somewhere...

Working in a job, which I really liked - one of the more senior developers in a relatively small programming company. (omg, a nerd). I get to design new stuff, and be in charge of lots of bits and pieces. But a guy (who didn't work that long with us) in here quit, and since his project needs to be finished quick, I'm made responsible for it, and I take over. Turns out, the guy did next to nothing before he quit, and I'm shouldered with what was supposed to be a really tough timeplan, with an impossible one.

Right, I think I'll have a good shot at it anyway. But the project was also so underspecced it's a crime. I still have to make good on delivering. I've worked nights, weekends, even done 23 long days work in a row at one stage. But it's massive. And I'm tired. And I'm (professionally) miserable because of it.

Quit, I hear you say, only I'm planning to leave in a few months anyway, and I'd be dumping the problem on my workmate's shoulders (who I've worked with, and have become good friends with for the last few years, and I don't want to sh*t on). Secondly, I've been here for so long, to just quit would really land people/promises in it, and as they say, you're only as famous for the last thing you've done. My reputation here would be marred by my 'lack of responsibility' on it.

Meh. I just posted here because I don't really want to whine all day to my friends about it. I'm just so worn out, mentally. I can't concentrate, and my social life has been really affected by it. I get home in the evenings late, make dinner, and collapse asleep, only to start again the next day. It's hard to motivate yourself.

Anyway, mighn't seem like much to most, but I just needed to get it out. And back to work I go.... *yawn*

Beruthiel

surely you have talked about this with your boss?
if not, do so

Virus_Inc

Many hands make light work... Spread the load a little - explain the situation to some of your collegues and ask if they can help out as the prick who left did SFA and you can't handle it by yourself... never be afraid to ask for help

burger king

Virus_Inc wrote:

Many hands make light work... Spread the load a little - explain the situation to some of your collegues and ask if they can help out as the prick who left did SFA and you can't handle it by yourself... never be afraid to ask for help

Ah, I've talked to people about it, they (including managers) know the situation I'm in. I've had assistance on the project from time to time, but it's one of those black holes which swallow resources (of which we don't have too many to spare) that you read about it 'poor project management' books.

I've had some coffee, I'm going to stop feeling sorry for myself, and get on with it ;-)

grumpytrousers

You will be remembered as a decent hardworking bloke by those who found you to be same, and as a mate by people who counted you as a mate.

don't worry about the 'what'll they think of me when i'm gone' thing - it doesn't matter a continental f*** what they think!!! Do what you can, but don't feel that you have to carry the weight yourself.You say you've alerted management to the issues raised - well, to an extent they should carry most of the burden, as last time i looked up the definition of manager, it's one who 'manages'. In this case a project. The planning and scoping of, as well as the execution and reporting of. If your predecessor did SFA in the planning and scoping, then there are bigger questions to be asked of those paid more than you are...

work like a motherf***er to get the project back on track - if you enjoy it. Nobody pays you to get pissed off. Ever.

RicardoSmith

No matter what you do some people will never accept that gallon won't fit in a pint pot. Working for free and stressing out over it is a bit pointless. Once you've left 6 months they won't even remember you.

fragile

Outsource some of the work. It sounds like you are in a fairly well paid job, and that you are not doing this for the financial reward, but for the sake of your career, reputation, and relationship with your colleagues. So, offload some of the work to a freelance developer that has experience in your area.

whosurpaddy

RicardoSmith wrote:

No matter what you do some people will never accept that gallon won't fit in a pint pot. Working for free and stressing out over it is a bit pointless. Once you've left 6 months they won't even remember you.

this is good advice. lay it on the line for the manager and tell him now that its not going to be finished, and why. do you really think any of your workmates would be getting themselves into this state over a project, which wasnt theirs to begin with?

burger king

whosurpaddy wrote:

this is good advice. lay it on the line for the manager and tell him now that its not going to be finished, and why. do you really think any of your workmates would be getting themselves into this state over a project, which wasnt theirs to begin with?

You'd be suprised, I work with some quite hardworking folks. And I'm not that well paid! I think I'll be taking plenty of time off in lieu when it's done ;-)

Thanks!

grumpytrousers

I think I'll be taking plenty of time off in lieu when it's done

I knew a bloke from manchester who used say that 'time in lieu' was half hour after lunch on the crapper with the paper...

whosurpaddy

burger king wrote:

You'd be suprised, I work with some quite hardworking folks. And I'm not that well paid! I think I'll be taking plenty of time off in lieu when it's done ;-)

Thanks!

im sure you do, but theres times for working hard and times for working smart. the trick is to recognise the right one for now.

RicardoSmith

burger king wrote:

You'd be suprised, I work with some quite hardworking folks. And I'm not that well paid! I think I'll be taking plenty of time off in lieu when it's done ;-)

Thanks!

If you know you'll get back your time then thats fair enough, but personally I have found that working outside of normal hours is never worth it. Its a slippery slope and any decent and professional manager shouldn't let you do it. Its bad practise period.

vibrant

burger king wrote:

Quit, I hear you say, only I'm planning to leave in a few months anyway, and I'd be dumping the problem on my workmate's shoulders (who I've worked with, and have become good friends with for the last few years, and I don't want to sh*t on).

The guilt associated with dumping work on someone else's shoulders wouldn't keep me in a job which was draining the life out of me. I think you should have a chat with your boss about the effect it is having on your personal life (working 23 days straight?!) and suggest they take someone else on board.

koneko

Isn't making someone work 23 days straight illegal? You're supposed to have a one or two day break every other week or something along those lines.

Talk to your boss, tell him the work load is too much. I agree with Ricardo, it's bad practice. You show you're willing to work over the odds, they'll make you do it more and more.

RicardoSmith

A man who works for free will always be very busy...

The Corinthian

The workload versus the resources allotted and deadlines cannot be done. You’ve pretty much said so yourself.

So, you have to turn around to your boss and say so - and not as a suggestion but as an immutable fact. Either they renegotiate deadlines or they assign more resources to the project. If you’re as senior as you say you are, then they’ll have to listen, otherwise your seniority is only a title they gave you rather than a raise.

Unfortunately the modus operandi of the IT industry used to be to work silly hours on ridiculously tight deadlines and earn pots of money. The money is now largely gone, but the “work them until they burn out” strategy remains. If you’re in a company where people are ‘quite hardworking’ yet ‘not well paid’ this has to set off warning bells.

It is important to be professional and competent in one’s work, but not to be exploited. A company is not a family; it’s a group of people all there because it is profitable for them to do so - that’s all. The worst thing you could do is be sucked in by the belief that the bond between you and your co-workers (let alone your employers) is anything but superficial. You are ultimately only a resource, and as has been suggested, were you to leave, you would be forgotten within six months.

burger king

The Corinthian wrote:

Either they renegotiate deadlines or they assign more resources to the project. If you’re as senior as you say you are, then they’ll have to listen, otherwise your seniority is only a title they gave you rather than a raise.

Lol, you've pretty much got that title business in one The project's too close to the (supposed) end now, and I've just managed to re-contract someone who was helping me for a bit.

If you’re in a company where people are ‘quite hardworking’ yet ‘not well paid’ this has to set off warning bells.

Oh, it does. I blame management, but also myself for not knowing better. I should have refused to do the extra work from the word go. But at the time, I was misled into the scale of what I was taking on!

The worst thing you could do is be sucked in by the belief that the bond between you and your co-workers (let alone your employers) is anything but superficial. You are ultimately only a resource, and as has been suggested, were you to leave, you would be forgotten within six months.

Ah, I'm not completely naive, I know how the world works - but I like to see the job finished, and without dumping crap on anyone else. Which of course is my problem I think I can rest assured this project will be the last time it'll happen Anyway, I was just feeling sorry for myself the other day.

And thanks for all the comments, folks.

vibrant

Good to hear that you're feeling better about it anyway. See what good a little venting can do?

Typedef

Why don't you just explain the situation to your manager and ask for an extended deadline or perhaps another body to help out?

Probably most of what the Corinthian said.

It sounds like you need to get 'whoever' to listen to you.

Since you are covering for the abscence of someone else, you should already have brownie points vis-a-vis a deadline pushout.

If the management are pointy haired dilbert people, then you don't need to be employed with them... if at least one of them is intelligent and or approchable, then approach, preferably in a private non-confrontational aside... and explain the how and the why of why it is you need more time... if you can't do that then the company isn't worth working for.

In fact if the fnckers don't provide free coffee, blondes and cars and 3 hour working days... you should walk..


/cracks whip

Work you lazy bastards...

Work.

Typedef

Just on what the Corinthian has said.

True, working is about economics.

However bad managers, treat their workers like resources.

If you want good people to work for you, and you want to get good results out of them, you need to make them happy working for you.

Usually that means interesting work, good money, and a work environment where you *can* acutally get your work done.

When it comes to programers, who are people who regularly work 70+ hour weeks ( I speak personally ) you absoutely *need* to make sure you keep your people happy, because those people are the cogs of the machine that is your business, if the cogs aren't oiled and maintained.. the engine falls apart.

Abuse the system too long and it will collapse on top of you.

Ergo. Get good managers. Get people who understand what it takes to create an envrionment where the worker is happy and your business will flourish... because the workers will make it happen.

Americans understand this concept... the majority of Irish don't.

In my experience Irish managment is usually one of fear and coercion, which is essentially an abuse of the system's machinery, leading to part exhaustion and the need for eventual replacement. When it comes to Americans or... being honest !Irish managers/coworkers, there is much less of the Irish hostility and resentment to ignore in a person when working with them.

Maybe that's just horse sheet though.


Back to work lusers.

The Corinthian

Typedef wrote:

However bad managers, treat their workers like resources.

No. All managers treat their workers like resources. However, bad managers don't or can't disguise this fact.

RicardoSmith

.....When it comes to programers, who are people who regularly work 70+ hour weeks ( I speak personally )....

Some family life that must be...

The Corinthian wrote:

No. All managers treat their workers like resources. However, bad managers don't or can't disguise this fact.

I think theres more to it than that. A bad manager doesn't get the best out of their staff. If you are having to work outside normal hours, then theres a problem.

Typedef

For a big code release, it is par for the course is it not, to stick in 70 hours if necessary? Your company can choose not to pay you big bucks for that sort of commitment... and they can equally go and hire two 40 hour a week guys to replace you too. It's their choice...

Our quid pro quo being unlike factory workers, we can come in at 8:30 to 9:15 without any problems.

Get stressed out... take an hour off ... make some coffee... and errmm post on boards.

Abuse company bandwidth for p2p downloads etc. Mostly though... I work long hours because I take alot of pride in my work.

That's the implied trade off... management lets you have cool toys to play with... and your understanding with yourself firstly and whoever else secondly... is that you don't do a half assed job... because buddy, even if you do, do *just* the roate 40 hour week... you still spend *most* of your time working... so it better mean something to you *other* then money... because by and large ... most of your *life* is spent working...
So for me, it *has* to be personally enjoyable.
/rant

True: Workers are resources to managers... of course they are...
I think what I'm getting at is, you need to have err, personal rapport with people you work with... or enjoyment for the work goes away... and when that happens productivity decreases.

Case and point my last job versus my second last job.
Second last job I hated... did the minimum 40 hours a week and *hated* the time managment corporate babble dope who made my life difficult, because his tiny little desk only had a 2 inch tinpot for him to dictate from... while my last job was like a blearly dream, where I didn't mind working 60, 70 hours for a job, I really wanted to do.

You get what I'm getting at here? Make the job personally important and rewarding to your people... make the staff genuinely happy and for the extra money you pay for them, you get twice the productivity.

Read Joel on this.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000070.html

Actually read Joel on everything... sure his people had the unfortunate incident with giving the *saviour* to the Romans to nail to a cross... but _aside_ from that, he's witty.

Shouldn't the objective be, to become absolutely indespensible to a company and then hit the fnckers for money?

RicardoSmith

Working for free isn't working. If you get paid for 40 and you do 80 you are working for free.

Typedef

I get paid more then most.

VenusDiablo

Delegate! Delegate! Delegate!

secret_squirrel

Take pride in your work - yes.

Do the odd few hour extra here and there as deadlines approach - yes

Go the extra mile for your company - yep if you feel strongly about it.

Do 80 hours when you're contracted for 40? No way josé.

The fact is no matter how hard you work, come next week when the bean counters want a little less head count you'll be out the door - and all the extra hours you worked wont count for anything. (bitter? moi?)

At the end of the day your job is just the means to transfer money from their account to yours. You might love it and find it rewarding, but unfortunately
its an economic relationship - nothing more. However much we might want it to be. By all means network and make friendships with the people and bosses you work with, but never forget that in the end its a business relationship between you and the company. Would they sell any of the their products or services for free - not unless there's something in it for them.....

And Typie - must correct you on the Americans being good managers - not in my experience - if anything they are worse coz they know what they should be doing to keep us happy and still wont do it....