Foreign registered cars in accidents???

dcGT

Hi,
Recently a friend of mine was in a car park where he was crashed into by a Latvian registered car (LV plates). Although the crash was at a very low speed (and no one was hurt) the side of my friend's car was completely ruined. To cut a long story short, the driver could barely speak a word of English and had no tax, insurance (not even in the country it was from) or license (EU or otherwise). Luckily, they came to an agreement and the driver paid up on the spot.
However, I'm just wondering what the legal implications of such an accident are? Do the Gardaí have any power in this case? Obviously, the car cannot be traced to an address in Ireland and penalty points cannot by given to the driver (what happens in the case of 'hit and run'). Does the other person involved have a leg to stand on in terms of compensation, or is the compensation just taken from the uninsured driver fund (which we all pay into and which drives insurance costs up)
There seems to be more and more foreign cars on our roads and it's sometimes doubtful if they are insured or roadworthy.

DC.

DukeDredd

He should have called the Gardai. As far as i know if a foreign car is in an accident they have to be kept at the station until things get sorted out.

spockety

I knew before I even clicked on your post that it would be a Latvian car.

What the hell is it with Latvian cars? They are all over the place these days!
I'm not just picking them out for any xenophobic reason, but seriously, I'd say I see at least 5 or 6 Latvian cars a week on our roads.

jlang

New EU-ians holidaying?

They generally look to be driven by gangsters to me, but I admit I haven't met too many Latvians in my time - maybe they all look like gangsters. And if the crash guy can settle out his crash damage for cash on the spot, it doesn't change my opinion.

seamus

If he had rang the gardai, they would have taken the guy's name and address, maybe if you're lucky would have taken him down the station, and charged him with driving unlicenced and uninsured (and whatever else he was doing). Then he would have been scot free to feck off home and escape the charges, and any costs your mate had.

Unfortunately, your mate probably got the best outcome he could have hoped for.

unkel

DukeDredd wrote:

He should have called the Gardai. As far as i know if a foreign car is in an accident they have to be kept at the station until things get sorted out.

You mean until he pays up? That would be good

The gardai should also pursue uninsured drivers a bit more imho, checking vehicles (including foreign license cars) and not releasing the vehicle until proof of insurance can be shown and a penalty is paid...

BTW there are so many Latvians here because 10s of thousands of them got work permits a few years ago (Latvians were no 1 nationality of immigrants in this country) to do work that neither the Irish, or for that matter any other EU workers wanted to to. Now of course they are free to travel and work here same way as the English, the French etc.

dcGT

seamus wrote:

Unfortunately, your mate probably got the best outcome he could have hoped for.

That's what he (and I) was thinking. Calling the Gardaí may have resulting in no finiancial compensation. A similar thing happened to me a few years ago. A 16 year old took his fathers van out (while drunk) and crashed into my car. When the Gardaí arrived, they 'suggested' to the father to say that his son 'stole' the van, in which case the father would not be liable and no compensation would have to be paid by his insurance. What a joke! They only place I could (but didn't bother) claim was the old uninsured driver's fund.

DC.

Gmodified

there is hundreds of this LV reg cars.


this is only one of few reason why road tax should be part of petrol price

ando

spockety wrote:

What the hell is it with Latvian cars? They are all over the place these days!

yeah I notice that aswell. I usually try keep distance from them LV's. A lot of them seem to all have tinted windows for some reason

I also try keep clear of black people driving. Just dunno if their insured or not

ondafly

this is a very sensitive issue to discuss, without sounding like a racist plonker

The only things that annoy me about foreign reg cars (this includes UK regs!!!!)

-The Gardai can do very little with regards speeding/gatso pics - as the system here only works for Irish registered cars.

-VRT ! the big BMWs, Audis etc that are still on foreign plates for months, if not longer now. While the owners are clearly living and working here. There is no TAX/Insurance/NCT displayed on the cars - and being a car nutt, this breaks my heart - I'd love to own a 3 litre 5 series/7 series and not have to pay car tax or have to go for the NCT

I wonder would it be possible for me to register a car I own in Latvia ? and drive it here and avoid VRT et al ?

I will also state (and I owe this guy a huge thanks, he wouldn't even take any money from me) if you ever have a lock nut on an alloy wheel that ain't never gonna come off - ask a Russian mechanic ! bloody genius he was

Victor

dcGT wrote:

Recently a friend of mine was in a car park

Technically, does that mean the other driver didn't need insurance at that moment as he wasn't on hte public road.

aidan_walsh

I guess that depends on whether or not it was a public car park?

jlang

What are the rules in regards to importing vehicles from other EU countries - How long can you drive on the foreign plates? When must you pay Irish road tax? From when must the car be insured? Should you pay VRT, get an NCT?

Victor

jlang wrote:

What are the rules in regards to importing vehicles from other EU countries - How long can you drive on the foreign plates? When must you pay Irish road tax? From when must the car be insured? Should you pay VRT, get an NCT?

The general rule for non-Irish people is 3 months. For Irish people, it's next day.

dcGT

Victor wrote:

Technically, does that mean the other driver didn't need insurance at that moment as he wasn't on hte public road.

It was in a shopping centre car park. So you don't NEED insurance in a non-public car park?

DC.

Andrew Duffy

Certainly if the park is normally open to the public, your insurance company is obliged to cover you; I imagine every insurance company will also cover you while driving on fully private land. I doubt you could claim that you don't need insurance to drive on privately owned, publicly accessible land - several long motorways more or less meet that description.

mudflapgirl

ondafly wrote:

I'd love to own a 3 litre 5 series/7 series and not have to pay car tax or have to go for the NCT
I wonder would it be possible for me to register a car I own in Latvia ? and drive it here and avoid VRT et al ?

heh, I'd toyed with this idea, well similar enough. BMW's cost buttons in South Africa compared to Ireland. You can get a fully stocked 318i for bout €22k whereas it'll cost you God knows how much here. And since Road Tax is included in the price of petrol - methinks anyway - which is a brilliant idea and should be here - and insurance costs are nearly nothing. But I figured I'd get stopped soon enough though and have to pay VRT etc. Besides my insurance on it would be sick 0 once I'd reg'd it here.

How do all the LV guys get away with it?

dcGT

mudflapgirl wrote:

How do all the LV guys get away with it?

Well if my friend's experience is anything to go my, they don't. They just drive around and hope for the best :rolleyes:

DC.

mudflapgirl

grrrr! whereas my insurance disc is out a day (well was - and only cause I forgot to put the new one in) and they're all over me :mad:

dcGT

ando wrote:

yeah I notice that aswell. I usually try keep distance from them LV's. A lot of them seem to all have tinted windows for some reason

Yeah, it's funny that, and they always seem to be big cars (e.g. BMW 5 series) Must be a lot of tinted windows in LV. Also, I've noticed it's not so much a tint as a complete limo black-out

DC.

mudflapgirl

dcGT wrote:

Yeah, it's funny that, and they always seem to be big cars (e.g. BMW 5 series) Must be a lot of tinted windows in LV. Also, I've noticed it's not so much a tint as a complete limo black-out

Yeah, nothing seems to happen to them but me with my little ole tint on the back half of the car (rear and rear-side) gets piked out of it by everybody - thinking I'm a drug dealer.

pfft!

dermot_sheehan

according to Directive 84/5/EEC <http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&numdoc=31984L0005&model=guichett&gt;

You have a claim against the bureau that deals with claims against uninsured motorists, in the member state where the vehicle is registered. For Latvia, this appears to be the traffic bureau of Latvia

http://www.sb.gov.lv/en/faq/

unkel

mudflapgirl wrote:

Road Tax is included in the price of petrol - methinks anyway - which is a brilliant idea and should be here

Yeah couldn't agree more Linda!

Even though I drive a big petrol car, I think that's only fair

Why would a 1.0 liter car that does 50k miles be taxed at a fraction of the rate of a 4.0 liter car doing 1k miles :mad:

Sold my last V8 BMW to a real enthousiast dude who runs about 4-8 performance cars at the same time. Why should he pay €10000 per annum in road tax? Well he didn't anyway and just risks cars being confiscated. So far he's had a 740 being legally abducted from him

I don't condone people not paying their taxes, but I sure as hell do feel empathy for him

PBC_1966

unkel wrote:

I don't condone people not paying their taxes, but I sure as hell do feel empathy for him

I'd go as far to condone it when the rates are exorbitant, and I'd certainly put your road tax rates for any decent-sized engine in that category.

I know when I first looked up Irish tax rates they seemed to really go sky high above 2 liters, and when I saw, IIRC, about IR £800 for 3 liters and up I thought it must be a misprint at first.

unkel

I pay €1343 per annum up front :mad:

That is €0.15 per mile :rolleyes:

PBC_1966

£165 per year top rate here for a private car, no matter how large the engine.

unkel

Yep, it has to be said: the UK is a bit of a motoring walhalla

Petrol a bit expensive and you need to change your registration to a non-UK one to avoid the penalty points, but then you get cheap high spec cars, cheap tax and insurance

SharpBlade

So, I guess that if you are a foreign national and your father lives in another European country, you can buy a used car in that other European country (at a discount price in comparison to you what you would pay in Ireland of course), have the car insured, registered and taxed there in the name of the father. You can then drive with that car in Ireland provided you are a nominated driver of the car and that the insurance company covers you in Ireland. So no VRT to pay and everything is above board. You regularly visit your relatives abroad to take the NCT over there (this is funded by the VRT you did not have to pay ;-). Am I right?

skibum

First of all I want to say "I am not a racist", and I am probably going to get shot down for saying this, but if I see an old banger being driven by a chinese driver, I keep well out of the way for the simple reason that I know for a fact of at least two cars being driven in south county dublin that the drivers don't have any licences or insurance, never mind tax or NCT.
These guys attitude is I'm here to make as much money to bring home, (fair dues to them) so i'm not going to the expense of learning to drive, do a test, buy a road worthy car, or pay for insurance. If I have an accident I will run!
This has happened at least once, and as for tax, insurance and NCT discs, lets just say there are some very resourceful people out there.

And no, I couldn't be bothered telling the cops after a couple of previous attempts of being a "Good Citizen " were proven to be a complete waste of my time and effort. :mad:

dcGT

unkel wrote:

Yep, it has to be said: the UK is a bit of a motoring walhalla

Petrol a bit expensive and you need to change your registration to a non-UK one to avoid the penalty points, but then you get cheap high spec cars, cheap tax and insurance

Yeah, but of course, the grass is always greener on the other side Take this man's opinions, for example....

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/cometobritain.php

I found it a very interesting read, though perhaps a bit biased. Read the section on motoring in Britain. He claims that Britain is still being ripped off when it comes to buying cars.... no one is ever happy :rolleyes:

DC.

Sizzler

Are foreign reg cars (pi55takers) being rounded up in that new traffic bill? It was promised but not much publicity on it of late, the penalty points seems to be dominating the front pages. Anybody any updates?

miju

dcGT wrote:

It was in a shopping centre car park. So you don't NEED insurance in a non-public car park?

DC.

as explained to me by the gardai recently:

"you don't need insurace / is regarded as a civil matter if there's a barrier to the carpark (including the pay barriers)

godfather69er

well, do you all not feel discriminated in your own country??? i dont give a **** if you call me a racist but here is my 1 pence
fair enough foreign nationals you are welcome to come here and work and contribute to the economy and society, but you sure as hell have to obey the rules of the land its about time us irish and our politicians stopped licking major E.U and US ass and stand up for ourselves and tell them to fúck off if they cant obey our laws.
that nob of a defence minister is scared ****less to tell the russians and yanks to stop landing in our airports while transporting ****ing apache and russian military helicopters, and btw i am all for the war in iraq.
spend the money on decent quality roads and not on ****ing tribunirals,
Rant over:D

Anan1

ando wrote:

I also try keep clear of black people driving. Just dunno if their insured or not

Am I the only one who finds the idea of having a racist moderator on the boards a bit repulsive?

RoundyMooney

Anan1 wrote:

Am I the only one who finds the idea of having a racist moderator on the boards a bit repulsive?

Am I the only one that finds a realistic viewpoint instantly condemned as a racist one repulsive?

mike65

Anan1 is that pop at me? Or a previous Mod bearing in mind this thread was started in the summer of 2004.

Its not worth geting excitied about at this stage. While colour is a crude definition I really don't belive Ando was being racist. I try to give cars with KY plates more room cos the driving standards down there are so poor. Am I a Kerryist?

Mike.

KeRbDoG

Wonder what guards do when they have a checkpoint and come across a foreign reg'ed car? Anyone know?
Do they ask if they are on holiday? Where they live? Do they bother to follow up on them if they live in the country?

Anan1

ando wrote:

Originally Posted by ando
I also try keep clear of black people driving. Just dunno if their insured or not

racism Show phonetics
noun (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING
the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races:
The authorities are taking steps to combat/fight/tackle racism in schools.
The report made it plain that institutional racism (= racism in all parts of an organization) is deep-rooted in this country.

RoundyMooney, perhaps you could explain to me how ando's post was not racist?

Anan1

mike65 wrote:

Anan1 is that pop at me? Or a previous Mod bearing in mind this thread was started in the summer of 2004.

Its not worth geting excitied about at this stage. While colour is a crude definition I really don't belive Ando was being racist. I try to give cars with KY plates more room cos the driving standards down there are so poor. Am I a Kerryist?

Mike.

Sorry Mike, my post had nothing to do with you. I didn't check the date on ando's post, I see now that it was some time back. I stand over my assertion that ando's post was racist - check any dictionary definition and you'll find that his post fits the bill exactly.

ds20prefecture

RoundyMooney wrote:

Am I the only one that finds a realistic viewpoint instantly condemned as a racist one repulsive?

Are you saying that it is a realistic viewpoint to avoid people based on their colour as a means of determining if they are insured or not? That is frankly ridiculous. I personally know 4 black people who are fully insured Irish citizens. Will I leap to the conclusion that all black people are fully insured irish citizens, and therefore (somehow) better drivers? Of course not, there's just no logic to it.

Boards is the home of sweeping, ungrounded generalisations - so it is not repulsive that someone so devoid of reason or common sense be made a moderator. It is depressing though.

ds20prefecture

PS: I'd hardly call 8 months later "instantly"

ds20prefecture

godfather69er wrote:

well, do you all not feel discriminated in your own country??? i dont give a **** if you call me a racist but here is my 1 pence
fair enough foreign nationals you are welcome to come here and work and contribute to the economy and society, but you sure as hell have to obey the rules of the land its about time us irish and our politicians stopped licking major E.U and US ass and stand up for ourselves and tell them to fúck off if they cant obey our laws.

Another glorious post from king of reason and tolerance. :rolleyes:

Borderfox

Dont mention paying road tax on your petrol, the government will charge us for that on top of everything else they do....!!!

gibbon75

Being myself and couple of my mates from one of the "new EU member" countries,we have asked two different Gardai officers about running non-Irish registered cars.
First officers answer:If you spend more than a year here,than you must register your car in Ireland.
Second officers answer:If you spend more than half a year here,than you must register your car in Ireland.
How to prove it that you've left the country?Keep the ferry ticket...

So I don't think Gardai officers are prepaired of the regarding rules...
I don't know anything about the other middle and eastern European countries' insurance rules,but I can tell you how does it work in Hungary (as I'm from there).We pay our car insurance every 1/4 year.When you paid the fee your insurer mails you an international proof of insurance (printed in English).It contains every detail you or the police needs in case of an accident.You're not allowed to leave Hungary without this proof (they usually check it at the border).
I think it works the same in the other new EU countries.
But I agree with that you must obey the laws and rules of the country,where are you at the moment (it doesn't matter if you live there,or you just visiting)

Sure I could save some money if I would buy a car at home,but I don't feel like leaving Ireland every year.So I'll just buy a car here

RoundyMooney

Anan1 wrote:

RoundyMooney, perhaps you could explain to me how ando's post was not racist?

Well, I'll happily throw in my tuppence worth. Ando can speak for himself, if he's still about. I too failed to note when the post was actually written, as an aside, and my comments have nothing to do with race. I will also avoid Polish/Latvian vehicles, given the recent sad events on roads up and down the country. Toyota Glanzas too, are given a wide berth. My decision to do so is totally based on my own experiences in this regard and have nothing to do with third party opinions or a desire to follow the chattering masses who see all non nationals as somehow fundamentally inferior. (A viewpoint which is equally reprehensible to me.)

Here are some of my (firsthand) anecdotes.

* Shunted outside Busarus a couple of years back by a Nigerian/Ghanain "gentleman" in a sh1tbox escort who put a nice crack in my bumper while attempting to reverse park. On realising his critical error, said individual immediately pulled out and took off at speed up the street, clipping the bumper of an unhappy Golf that was parked ahead of him. In his urge to escape he nearly blew an elderly pedestrian off the road. Happily his reg number was noted by me, although funnily enough, for a law abiding citizen, the Gardai were unable to trace him...

*Cork city recently; while driving correctly down a one way street, was accosted by another West African gent in a Primera, complete with dents and scuffed hubcaps who was "driving" up the street with blatant disregard for the law. Jumping out of the car shouting incoherently, he was quickly subdued by my threat to have the gardai come out and assess the situation for themselves, at which point he re-entered his vehicle and reversed back down the street. Not before, however I was able to note that his windscreen had no tax, insurance, or any other form of official marking... Tempted as I was to lose the rag in a situation like this, I kept my powder dry, because of the tendency of some of these people to play the "race card" regardless of whether a racial slur is invoked, or not.

*Jack Lynch tunnel roundabout, prior to the traffic light installation here (few months back?) West african lady, complete with spurious headgear, driving a hatchback of some kind navigated roundabout *three* times while her male accomplice sat in the passenger seat gesticulating furiously. I was at the roadside watching incredulously with an engineer from Cork County Council. When I say navigated, perhaps I'm being too kind. Veering wildly from lane to lane, causing traffic behind and to the side to take avoiding action and forcing a cement lorry onto the central reservation would be a more correct description...

I could go on all night, but that would bore both of us.

I can quote anecdotal evidence too in relation to Eastern European vehicles, as I say. Generally when these drivers misbehave, they do so at speed, however, making confirmation of their details difficult. Perhaps you are familiar with recent reports that one in five unhappy road deaths are non-nationals?

My point is, a statement of fact is not a confirmation of a mindset. If I am prejudiced, then I'm bloody sick of being vindicated all the time.

The racist card is overplayed IMHO.

RoundyMooney

ds20prefecture wrote:

Are you saying that it is a realistic viewpoint to avoid people based on their colour as a means of determining if they are insured or not? That is frankly ridiculous. I personally know 4 black people who are fully insured Irish citizens. Will I leap to the conclusion that all black people are fully insured irish citizens, and therefore (somehow) better drivers? Of course not, there's just no logic to it.

Boards is the home of sweeping, ungrounded generalisations - so it is not repulsive that someone so devoid of reason or common sense be made a moderator. It is depressing though.

I'll refer you to my post in reply to anan1, in relation to your first. A lot of people (not just here) assume racism where non exists. This is a very dangerous tendency and invites abuse and spurious allegation.

You're condemning the man a little soon, I fear...

RoundyMooney

ds20prefecture wrote:

PS: I'd hardly call 8 months later "instantly"

Take that up with anan1. It would seem, as is the norm, that his reading of the thread was followed on rather swiftly with his reply, as he confirmed to Mike earlier in the thread.

Gerry

ds20prefecture wrote:

Are you saying that it is a realistic viewpoint to avoid people based on their colour as a means of determining if they are insured or not? That is frankly ridiculous. I personally know 4 black people who are fully insured Irish citizens. Will I leap to the conclusion that all black people are fully insured irish citizens, and therefore (somehow) better drivers? Of course not, there's just no logic to it.

Boards is the home of sweeping, ungrounded generalisations - so it is not repulsive that someone so devoid of reason or common sense be made a moderator. It is depressing though.

Ok, sure how about another one. Everyone has just as much tax and insurance as everyone else. Theres no lack of insurance, nothing to be worried about. Boards has enough members that it can be said to be a fairly good barometer of public opinion ( maybe not a really broad spectrum, but still a large sample of people ).

godfather69er

ds20prefecture wrote:

Another glorious post from king of reason and tolerance. :rolleyes:

and another smart ass comment from irelands number1 ass licker;)

and why should we have to have reason and tolerence with these people who show no respect to this country, piss all over the rules(look at what happens when they are told to fúck off, they go before the courts to waste time and money)
prime example that kunle chap,
that chap pleaded to stay here to finish his leaving cert,we had him on tv in his uniform making us feel sorry for him coz he was thrown out of the country the 1st time without anything,btw did he come here with anything???he got a pardon to sit the leaving so 1yr later why hasnt he gone??hes doing engineering and prob taking a place a irish hopefully law abiding CITIZEN could have.
that fúcker was caught driving a ****box with no tax or insurance, went to court and got fined. they should have put him on the first boat out of here. the government has to stop this ass licking,coz they are walking all over the rules.
i know there are irish ****heads who break the law and i have less sympathy for them but the minority of foreign 'nationals' should tell the law breakers to go home coz the good section of their society is getting tarred with the same brush. if one of those uninsured ****heads crashes into me i will not be responsible for what i do to the ****, it mite be 'bite the kerb' time, and same for the irish scum too. i have had it with them, next uninsured car i see parked there will be no air in two of the tyres when i have finished with it the way i see it if you dont wanna play by the rules you cant play

Anan1

RoundyMooney -

I asked you to explain how you came to the conclusion that ando's post was not racist. You have ando's post, and you have a dictionary definition of racism. Go ahead.

MrPudding

SharpBlade wrote:

So, I guess that if you are a foreign national and your father lives in another European country, you can buy a used car in that other European country (at a discount price in comparison to you what you would pay in Ireland of course), have the car insured, registered and taxed there in the name of the father. You can then drive with that car in Ireland provided you are a nominated driver of the car and that the insurance company covers you in Ireland. So no VRT to pay and everything is above board. You regularly visit your relatives abroad to take the NCT over there (this is funded by the VRT you did not have to pay ;-). Am I right?

No, you are wrong. The only way an Irish resident can drive a foreign registered car in Ireland is if that car is owned but the drivers employer. Somewhere on the revenue website (I can't find it at the moment but will have a look tonight, I need it for another thread as well) i says that Irish residents are not allow to drive a car in Ireland unless VRT has been paid on it. My GF is French and we were hopeing to buy and register a car in her Dad's name in France. Cheap car, cheap insurance and no road tax. No go.

MrP