Should I buy a diesel car

giftgrub

hope to buy a car soon...

for purely econimocal reasons i was thinking of going diesel...now i've driven them before and i know they're not as powerful as petrol, but with the price of petrol nowadays....

just wondering what people think about diesel cars....and what are turbo diesel's like for power accelaration etc?

garthv

IMHO diesel is the way forward,
like you said,petrol prices on the rise n all that diesel is still the cheaper which means that extra bit of cash in your pocket.
As performance wise,try driving a skoda octavia turbo diesel,very nice and very quick:D,
Plus with technology these days diesel's dont sound as bad as they used to

michaelanthony

The E320 cdi is faster(0-60mph) than the E320

Stark

They used to be noisy and low-powered. But there's a new fuel injection technology for diesel engines that can match the performance of a petrol engine. Just don't let Mrs. Doyle near your car

aodh_rua

Modern diesels are great, and if you can get a turbo charged engine you're in business. One thing worth mentioning on the cost is that the motor tax you pay in terms of the power of your engine is higher than a petrol (a 1.9 diesel might put out the same bhp as a 1.6 petrol but with significantly higher tax). Still you're saving on every trip to the pump.

What kind of diesel are you thinking of? I used to have 1.9 Golf, but I'd also recommend the Audi TDi's. They're very smooth and lots of poke. You may have trouble finding them reasonably priced second hand - assuming you're not going for a new one, but they do hold their value well.

giftgrub

aodh_rua wrote:

What kind of diesel are you thinking of? I used to have 1.9 Golf, but I'd also recommend the Audi TDi's

i really dont know...not much of a car person.. i'd be going for second hand of course ( who buys new? )

looking on www.buyandsell.ie saw a few turbo diesel mondeo's, always liked mondeo's..hmmmmm

mike65

Good points - economy, longer-lasting, quicker overtaking, better re-sale price.

Bad points - More road tax, higher purchase price (typically 15-20% new)

Other point - lastest diesels are nearly as festooned with engine managment
systems as petrol engines so the old days of "turn, wait and start" everytime are no more.

Dont buy a Mondeo TD unless its the latest engine.

Mike.

John R

Diesels have come a log way in the last decade, thank god. Like with buying any car give it a good test drive before buying, some diesels are way better than others.


Many years ago I had a 1989 Isuzu Gemini 1.5 non-turbo diesel for a short while, quite possibly the slowest car ever made. I timed the 0-60 at 48 seconds!

impr0v

Like the other posters said, diesel is the way to go, and I'd expect to buy diesel next time I change. As you're going second hand, I'd go as new as possible as the engine technology is getting better and better at a remarkable pace, in particular the common rail diesel engines. The engine in the new 530d BMW will accelerate from 50-75mph nearly 2 seconds faster than the 530i petrol, due to the massive torque available. As someone recommended already, one of the TDi Audis is a good buy, but expect to pay well. I was talking to an Audi dealer a while back about them and he mentioned having a year old A4 coming in as a trade in (one of the 1.9TDi's) the week after and there were three guys badgering him on the phone about being the first to see it. Another good buy might be one of the TDi Passats.

Creamy Goodness

talking to my dad the other day and he says he fills his 01 VW passat for 50 euros and gets 500 miles to the tank (it's urban miles too).

BrianD3

Bad points of diesels:

Recommended service intervals on diesels tend to be shorter. Eg the new Peugeot 407 petrol needs a service every 20,000 miles, while the diesel needs one every 10,000 IIRC.

Most modern diesels have turbos which is another thing to go wrong. They don't last forever and can wear out at high mileages or fail prematurely at lower mileages. I have heard of a few cases where this has happened.

One potential problem which may not be obvious - because of the greater torque and pulling power that diesels have, many will have been used as "tractors" i.e. used for towing heavy trailers, caravans, boats etc. This can take its toll on clutches, suspension, brakes etc. Bear this in mind when buying secondhand.

Similarly, many diesel owners have the idea that diesel cars are "unburstable" or "bulletproof" so they drive the sh1te out of them and neglect servicing. Diesels do tend to be long lasting, but abuse can still take its toll.

BrianD3

Interceptor

Most of what the other posters have said is true, in summary diesels have gotten better, don't buy an old Mondeo TD, they are more economical etc. However diesel was developed for use providing a high torque fuel for trains and IMHO that is what it should be reserved for. And tractors, I forgot those. Yes, I know the BMW 530 and all that, but in general they are still smelly, noisy and heavy. You add that you are not a car person, and with that in mind you should choose even more carefully - you neglect to say whether you intend crossing the 20k.m.p.a threshold at which the cost of diesel negates the extra service/purchase price differential - if all you want is a runabout, buy a suitable mid-size petrol car, keep it serviced and you won't have to stand over at the smelly black leper-pump with the van drivers...

'ceptr

Go on, flame me now, I'm ready...

John R

BrianD3 wrote:

One potential problem which may not be obvious - because of the greater torque and pulling power that diesels have, many will have been used as "tractors" i.e. used for towing heavy trailers, caravans, boats etc. This can take its toll on clutches, suspension, brakes etc. Bear this in mind when buying secondhand.

Never buy a car with a towbar. Although some of the sneaky buggers have them removed to hide the fact they have been hammered.

aodh_rua

impr0v wrote:

Like the other posters said, diesel is the way to go, and I'd expect to buy diesel next time I change. As you're going second hand, I'd go as new as possible as the engine technology is getting better and better at a remarkable pace, in particular the common rail diesel engines. The engine in the new 530d BMW will accelerate from 50-75mph nearly 2 seconds faster than the 530i petrol, due to the massive torque available. As someone recommended already, one of the TDi Audis is a good buy, but expect to pay well. I was talking to an Audi dealer a while back about them and he mentioned having a year old A4 coming in as a trade in (one of the 1.9TDi's) the week after and there were three guys badgering him on the phone about being the first to see it. Another good buy might be one of the TDi Passats.

The VW and Audi TDi's are the same engine so the Passat is well worth checking out, and I suppose Skoda's too. That said you haven't mentioned a price range, except that you like the Mondeo. That may mean some of the cars suggested (the 530d say) are beyond your range.

Last thing - if you'd rather go for a dealer rather than buy and sell check out www.carzone.ie . It's got a pretty up to date list of what second hand machines the dealers currently have on offer.

unkel

mike65 wrote:

Bad points - More road tax

Not on recent cars. Nowadays you get the same BHP per liter of engine capacity in a diesel compared to a petrol. Examples mentioned above are the merc E320, bmw 530 and also VAG 1.9 and 2.0 Diesels

John R wrote:

Diesels have come a log way in the last decade

More like in the last 0 - 5 years. Breakthrough perhaps with 530d in 1999? Somebody might post another candidate to win the competition. Another contender must be the Alfa JTD range that is superb

It's only this year that manufacturers like Honda and Jaguar use their first diesel ever :eek:

impr0v wrote:

I'd expect to buy diesel next time I change

I was hoping to go that route myself when changing last February, but it proved to be economical nonsense for me. Maybe next time

Example. Let's say you buy a second hand car and the price difference between two equally powerful same size engined cars is €2k. You do 10000 miles per annum and petrol costs €0.99 and diesel €0.91. Say the diesel will give you 50 mpg and the petrol 35 mpg and presuming insurance, maintenance and road tax are the same. Then it will take you more than 5 years to recuperate the €2k difference :eek: :eek: :eek:

Economical nonsense as was the fact in my case...

Different ballgame at 30k miles per annum, it will take less than 2 years

Moral of the story is:

interceptor wrote:

if all you want is a runabout, buy a suitable mid-size petrol car

BrianD3

unkel wrote:

More like in the last 0 - 5 years. Breakthrough perhaps with 530d in 1999? Somebody might post another candidate to win the competition. Another contender must be the Alfa JTD range that is superb

At the other end of the spectrum, there's the smaller capacity diesels that have become available recently. Eg the Ford/PSA 1.4, the 1.6 and the Renault 1.5. These are a big breakthrough because they are more economical and less taxed than larger capacity diesels yet power output is fairly comparable to a petrol engine of the same size.

BrianD3

knifey_spoonie

Have you tought off the new toyota prius 65mpg auto climate control 7" touch screen all for 28500

mike65

It's only this year that manufacturers like Honda and Jaguar use their first diesel ever :eek:

Remember those ads Honda used to run about which car killed diesel?

Mike.

daggeredge

just to add to the "possible" fault list
Diesel injectors..... easily breakable.....extremely expensive!

darragh o meara

I recently changed to diesel and bought me a citroen xsara 1.9 turbo diesel and its one of the fastest cars i've driven in a while I have topped mine at about 130mph (gps verified) the only mod being a superchip plus its a lot more economical than petrol I'll never go back. Incidently I'm in the process of buying a gt tdi golf which has the same rating as a petrol gti golf and supposedly that bit faster.....

Seth Brundle

knife_fighter wrote:

Have you tought off the new toyota prius 65mpg auto climate control 7" touch screen all for 28500

brilliant idea except it is a prius!
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/autoshow2001/prius.jpg
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/images/prius.jpg
http://www.part.cz/images/auto-moto/vize36_toyota_prius_8t.jpg

Peace

Ya can't beat a diesel (TDi)... not even with a big stick!

Interceptor

Yes you can beat diesel with a stick and if diesel is an evolutionary step for automotive development, it is a backward one. The next obvious step after diesel is turf - you have to light it the day before you want to use it, the gov'mt subsidises the industry that fuels it and it smells like your house burning down.

'ceptr

dugga-da-dugga-da-dugga-da-dugga. dug. dug. dug....

dcGT

kbannon wrote:

brilliant idea except it is a prius!
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/autoshow2001/prius.jpg
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/images/prius.jpg
http://www.part.cz/images/auto-moto/vize36_toyota_prius_8t.jpg

Indeed, some brilliant engineering, but the car is hideous.

DC.

michaelanthony

John R wrote:

Never buy a car with a towbar. Although some of the sneaky buggers have them removed to hide the fact they have been hammered.

On a different note, the reason somebody might chose to fit a towbar is to save the car in the event of being rear-ended.

DivX

On a different note, the reason somebody might chose to fit a towbar is to save the car in the event of being rear-ended.

Saved my rear in more than one occasion, i always put on on my cars, never know when i might need to tow the bike trailer.

I had a few diesel cars in my time and will buy one the next time.

The price of diesel down in my local pump is only 86.9p where as petrol in the same station is 96.9! even if you only got the same mpg out of the diesel car as the equivalent petrol you'd still be saving.

fletch

As regards diesel cars being slow the SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI(160) is quicker than a Porsche 911 GT3 in third, fourth and fifth gears.

unkel

fletch wrote:

the SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI(160) is quicker than a Porsche 911 GT3 in third, fourth and fifth gears.

Modern diesels have a lot of torque but where do you get those figures? Do you mean 30-70 mph acceleration?

Sure enough the Ibiza has only 40NM less torque than the cheapest Porsche 911 but I doubt it would be quicker in the 30-70mph test

0-62 takes 5.0 seconds in the Porsche and 7.6 seconds in the Ibiza. Top speed is over 40mph more in the Porsche

I'd put my money on the Porsche in a race to find who's quicker round the Nordschleife

fletch

unkel wrote:

Modern diesels have a lot of torque but where do you get those figures? Do you mean 30-70 mph acceleration?

Sure enough the Ibiza has only 40NM less torque than the cheapest Porsche 911 but I doubt it would be quicker in the 30-70mph test

0-62 takes 5.0 seconds in the Porsche and 7.6 seconds in the Ibiza. Top speed is over 40mph more in the Porsche

I'd put my money on the Porsche in a race to find who's quicker round the Nordschleife

I got those figures from AutoExpress magazine. If the two where in a race there is not doubt that the Porsche would win. The figures compare their in gear figures however if the Porsche were allowed to drop a gear then it would no doubt sear away from the Ibiza as the Porsches power is available at a higher rev.

TKK

Omeara_darragh wrote:

I recently changed to diesel and bought me a citroen xsara 1.9 turbo diesel and its one of the fastest cars i've driven in a while I have topped mine at about 130mph (gps verified) the only mod being a superchip plus its a lot more economical than petrol I'll never go back. Incidently I'm in the process of buying a gt tdi golf which has the same rating as a petrol gti golf and supposedly that bit faster.....

I know a guy who owns one of those golfs and it is indeed quicker than the petrol....he tested this shortly after he got it....all in the interest of science you understand....

I myself have a tdi golf and it's a great car to go....very economical....thing is that unless you're doing big mileage there's very little point as the extra costs outweigh the savings....unless you're like me and don't pay full price for diesel....

alias no.9

knife_fighter wrote:

Have you tought off the new toyota prius 65mpg auto climate control 7" touch screen all for 28500

These hybrids are excellent at producing consumption figures on the rolling roads used by EU and US authorities to calculate official consumption figures but many customers have found it difficult to come anything close to 50mpg never mind 65.

blorg

aodh_rua wrote:

Last thing - if you'd rather go for a dealer rather than buy and sell check out www.carzone.ie . It's got a pretty up to date list of what second hand machines the dealers currently have on offer.

This search will limit you to diesels; you can also select diesel only from the advanced used car search page.

knifey_spoonie

kbannon wrote:

brilliant idea except it is a prius!
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/autoshow2001/prius.jpg
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/images/prius.jpg
http://www.part.cz/images/auto-moto/vize36_toyota_prius_8t.jpg

Thats the old model one ,ive been to dublin in the new one the comp said an average of 59 MPG

http://www.toyota.ie/prius/index.htm take a look see

Lets compare prices
Avensis diesel with auto box climate control = 36,???

Prius with auto box climate control touch screen proformance of a 2l petrol =28000

dcGT

knife_fighter wrote:

http://www.toyota.ie/prius/index.htm take a look see

Fact number 3:
"Is driven by Cameron Diaz and Leonardo DiCaprio"

Oh well that settles it, I'm getting one! *Runs to the Toyota dealer*

DC.

impr0v

dcGT wrote:

Fact number 3:
"Is driven by Cameron Diaz and Leonardo DiCaprio"

Oh well that settles it, I'm getting one! *Runs to the Toyota dealer*

DC.

Was gonna quote that as well. What a stupid point, yet it makes number three on the priority list of all that's good about the car. I'm not in the market for a prius, but I would refuse to even consider buying a car when I'm treated like a dumbass by the marketeers hired to sell it. And the new one looks disgusting too.

BJsUs

Thinking along the same lines myself, family size car, diesel, purely for economical reasons until that is my search led me ino a Toyota showroom looking at a model I did not recognise. The showroom sales person introduced me to the above mentioned "2005 - Car of the Year".Haven't decided yet but I'm impressed. Down to Renault Scenic 1.5 dCi or the Toyota Prius

Any comments would be appreciated.

Also check www.fueleconomy.gov website (American) but there is some good data on diesel engines.

unkel

This must be the day of the Resurrection of the Dead Threads *shivers*

lomb

wasnt impressed by the MKV diesel golf, sounded like a tractor, theres no way id pay 27000 for that. diesel still has a long way to come.

also drove a s320cdi 04, and again was unimpressed by cabin noise, no way id spend 100 grand to listen to that crap. very powerful though but still noisy.

if u need to save money they are fine and have immensely improved but otherwise id veeer well away. might b worth looking into in the future

mike65

lomb wrote:

wasnt impressed by the MKV diesel golf, sounded like a tractor, theres no way id pay 27000 for that. diesel still has a long way to come.

I was at the Volkswagen/Audi/Mercedes dealer in town on Wednesday and outside the parts dept was a mk 5 diesel Golf, engine running. Iit was very noisy, it was proberly still not warm but nonetheless it was suprisingly
vocal. I would imagine its a lot quieter inside.

Mike.

lomb

mike65 wrote:

I was at the Volkswagen/Audi/Mercedes dealer in town on Wednesday and outside the parts dept was a mk 5 diesel Golf, engine running. Iit was very noisy, it was proberly still not warm but nonetheless it was suprisingly
vocal. I would imagine its a lot quieter inside.

Mike.

i know non diesel zeolets and on an honest comparison they are noisier inside but have plenty of power.
realistically every non molested petrol engined car ive driven, the engine is as smooth as a turbine. henry rolls would have been proud of even a modern 1.4litre engine for smoothness.
the s320cdi i drove was disappointing. the s320 petrol is a far superior car. in luxury cars noise matters. in repmobiles it doesnt, its that simple. different priorities for different people.

Renegade_Archer

You could do a lot worse than a 110bhp TDI Toledo - not the new shonky MPV looking thing, the one between 00 - 04 is the one to go for - closer gear ratios than the Octavia, looks better, and still cheaper than a Passat. Only drawback is the saloon boot - its big, but the entrance hatch isnt the biggest. Will still do 0-60 for you in under 10.



Regards


Ewan

lomb

i believe it is safe to say modern diesels are powerful and more refined than they have ever been.
however no diesel will probably ever be as smooth as a petrol, also no diesel will ever rev like a petrol does with the powerband much lower down.
there are many diesel company car drivers and van drivers singing the praise of the diesel engine because they have no other choice. yes they are fast but how many people tear away from traffic lights?
some people actually want refinement and diesels dont have it, not even the best that 100 grand will buy.

Mayshine

I think people should read up on gearing an its mutliplyer effect on engine torque at the wheels.

Simply put gears multiply (or in an overdrive gear they reduce) the amount of engine torque delivered to the wheels.

So acceleration felt by the driver is directly related only to the torque developed AND the gearing in use.

Because of the higher reving engine that petrol provides they can be geared to provide an increased multiplication effect on the engine torque at the wheels. I.e The Honda s2000 only produces 153lb/ft of torque but because it revs so high the car designed can alter the gearing to get a much larger torque increase at the wheels than a diesel car can even if the diesel engine provides 50% more torque

This also explains why the 30-70 statistic is so misleading. Unless it is through the gears, it will always favour a diesel because of the gear ratios used by typical diesel engine

Anyway lesson over for now but could you live with the sound of a diesel everyday. It is so soulless

DW

Dilbert75

After over four and a half years with a 2.0 diesel (Vectra Di), I've just moved back to 1.6 petrol (Picasso). As a 14k / year driver, the fuel savings were not quite up to the difference in tax and insurance (€170 pa on tax, probably €200 on insurance). The price per litre is only about 3c different around here. In the end it came down to the choice between a 2001 HDi, 60k, questionable history, lots of scrapes or 2002 petrol, 38k, well cared for. Both engines have 90 bhp.

Would I go back to diesel? Like a shot. The petrol is more refined, especially at idle (I've even mistaken the engine for not running when it was). But on the go its got less go, especially on hills. A diesel is louder at idle but more relaxed when on the go. Its got more pull for overtaking. Fewer gear changes.

It doesn't matter to me whether the multiplier effect increases the torque at the wheels, it doesn't matter whether the torque curve is flatter or peakier. Diesel is more comfortable to drive from day to day.

Capt'n Midnight

another reason for using a diesel is if you want to run alternative fuels
of course marked gas oil is illegal , but is waste chipper oil ?

lomb

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

...l is illegal , but is waste chipper oil ?

in a word yes.
alot of country folk fill their cars with marked gas oil. i think the gardai should be out dipping every diesel car on a fairly quiet country road, but maybe this would be politically unpopular :rolleyes: