Shotakan Karate And Self Defense

TOMSIE

HI everyone i am 25 and am thinking starting shotakan karate it's my local club and i am not able to travel to any other clubs thought i am hopping to start mutai kickboxing in a year.

Was wondering would you be able to defend yourself with shotakan karate in a year time. I have been reading on the internet and being hearing good things about boxing thai kickboxing judo and grappling arts but rarely anything good about karate especially with it and self defense.

Also when i was young i seen a black belt in shotakan get the **** beat out of him my a non martial artists who just flailed punches at him like a boxer kind of back then let me lose confidence in karate and i know some of you have other stories like this.

I was wondering what aspect of karate should i consentrate for self defense

What should i bring from shotakan karate after a year that would be usefull lets say in mutai kickboxing.

how long does it take to be able to defend yourself in karate i am guessing a lot longer than in boxing where you only practice 6 or so types of punches.

Have i been hoodwinked by the internet and karate compared to other arts is really effective and it has good moves i and others dont know about.

also people who have studied karate and moved on to other arts what do they think about karate know.

And anything about the good or bad aspects of karate or self defense is appricated

columok

If you want self defence then just do Thai instead of doing Shotokan.

Did Karate, tried to use it in MMA sparring. Didnt work. Thai does!!

paddyc

www.bridgestonemuaythai.com


No 1. for thai in Dublin, any one wanting to prove me wrong feel free to get int touch

Damo W

Tomsie,

The following site may have sone links in it that might help your search.

http://www.practical-martial-arts.co.uk

I havn't had a good look at the contents yet but I thought you might be interested in it.

Damien

columok

Re: The above Link

Id run a mile from anyone who mentions pressure point fighting and practical in the same sentence!!

Lozjm

I started off in Shotokan, but moved onto TaeKwonDo which is much more fluid and natural than the Japanese formal arts,

However for a street worthy - best with Muay or freestyle kickboxing

Damo W

columok wrote:

Re: The above Link

Id run a mile from anyone who mentions pressure point fighting and practical in the same sentence!!

Hi Columok,

Yes...true, but a general knowledge of movement and how we react to stimulus I believe is beneficial, but agree that at 4.28am out side a club its hade enough to find a taxi, don't mind trying to find Lung 5 on a guy wielding a bottle :-)

Tomsie
If you’re only interested in Self Defence.. Why join a martial arts club? There must be self-defence instructors out there that teach just that.

Martial arts clubs give a whole lot more than just self-defence and in some clubs self-defence is only a small part of the curriculum... (following a tradition, research, sport, personal development etc. sometimes rate a lot higher on the agendas)

[NOTE: I understand that these can be adopted for defensive purposes]

I believe that there is a difference between self-protection and self defence, the later being the physical event the former being the lead to it.. Avoiding the physical would seem to be the priority??, therefore you should seek an instructor who covers both and not just the physical.

Damien

columok

Damo raised an interesting point. Why self defence?

Ive read a recently a lot of good articles on self defence: Namely the myths involved and peoples real reasons for doing it. I'd steer well clear of self defence instructors- they tend to be (here comes the sweeping generalisation) paranoid nutjobs!

Thread: The Real Intent of Self Defence?

http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=452733&FID=21&p=25

Article : The Myths of Self Defence (www.onedragon.com)
by Luis Gutierrez

The debate about training for the street and training for sport never seems to end. I decided to make an individual link to handle this question since it so commonly arises and to prevent any misunderstandings about my intentions when it comes to ODMA, it's active philosophy or curriculum. The following is my opinion and simply that. Please feel free to contact me if you have anything to add but I hope my point has been made clear by the time you finish reading this page. I don't see what all the fuss is about but here goes…

My definition of what is combative sport and what is fighting is as follows: If both parties agree to fight under specific rules and regulations within a specific time frame, then it's a combative sport. If any one party does not wish to participate and / or is forced to at any given time or place, then it's a fight. The primary difference is what is being fought for and the reason why. One is a job or a sport for money, honor, or prestige, and the other is sheer survival for life, well being and / or liberty. One entails specific rules of engagement; the other's only rule is no rules.

How this influences me and my role running ODMA is as follows: I train for many reasons. Self-defense is not one of them but simply a by product of them all. I believe that one on one hand to hand "fights" of honor only occur in the ring. I am not concerned with what worked in Feudal Japan nor what was honor once upon a time in a more "innocent" America. In my life, I have yet to ever see, read of, or hear of someone being attacked or robbed honorably. (Granted, I have seen a great deal of theft in boxing.) I am 34 years old with a loving family, rent, bills, debts and every working American's dreams to succeed. Responsibility, more so than any martial art could ever dream of, has readily allowed me to walk away from challenges to my ego. Now, do you actually think for a moment that a threat (not a challenge) to me or my loved ones would have anything to do whether or not I trained martial arts?! The will to action at that moment would have nothing to do with any confidence or techniques acquired through the martial arts. None! If I were alone and attacked I would rely on my track and field ability. If I'm with loved ones… the pain tolerance, endurance, power and ferocity given by God at that moment is a force of nature and has nothing to do with civilization's fighting arts. My training? Against being outnumbered or dealing with a weapon? No style will save you, only your wits. It has much more to do with your psychology and your will to survive and protect life than any manufactured technique or style designed supposedly to end it.

The myth of street fighting: They seldom ever occur on a street. Try instead, bars, clubs and places serving alcohol and selling a whole lot of mood and attitude. These ego-based displays of physical prowess usually occur around locations where single people go in numbers to socialize. Obviously mix sex and drugs together with a large number of single people and those not getting any of the first and too much of the second will be very frustrated. When you visit an establishment where the ultimate goal of most intoxicated patrons by midnight is to fight or fornicate, your chances of feeling the fight or flight response, a boot or bottle to the head, and even getting arrested is a good one. I practically lived and worked in clubs from age 17 through 28. Avoid them and you avoid 99% of the so called street fights.

The reality of assaults: Real fights are actually assaults. They can and do occur everywhere and at any time. In fact, unlike the scenarios above, statistically most assaults occur near or at your home. There are no stances, deflections, blocks or parries against strikes that come in the form of multiple led projectiles. Knife fights are called assassinations in the real world. The only knife ever involved is the one "suddenly" inside you. Movies would have it that every criminal places a gun at your stomach before making a long drawn out sales pitch or presents and twirls a knife in front of you before lunging in like an Olympic fencer. This is not the case at all. Criminals are scared too and seldom get close until they know you are secured, this at times means shot or dead. The knife is felt and not seen as it often comes from a blind side or from someone other than you are dealing with. Muggers and rapists use stun guns and pepper sprays as well as the ladies they attack. Assaults are predatory by nature and if they do not involve weapons, involve larger numbers, or at the least a much larger or stronger assailant than victim. Against these odds once they occur, no hand to hand martial art stands much of a chance and survival is more in the realm of psychological tactics, luck, and your ability gage the best moment to escape.

The grappling arts imply: "most fights end up on the ground…take them there"
The striking arts imply: "all fights start standing up…keep them there"
The mixed martial arts imply: "any fight can go anywhere…be ready and able to go everywhere" Coast to Coast Crime Statistics state: 10 out of 10 assaults involve a weapon(s), being outnumbered, being physically outclassed or any combination of the above.

Street technique versus Sport Techniques or "Just add dirt" I can hear it now from all the street fighters... "But Luis, what about eye gauges, hair pulling, biting, ripping, pinching, scrotum striking, yanking and smashing, scratching, spitting, foaming at the mouth, growling, breaking bottles, wearing boots, colon control and crapping at will?" Well, what about all that? If you can't even hit a guy with a 16oz. glove how the hell are you going to eye jab him? If you can't keep a guy from putting you on the ground and proceeding to do his best rendition of River Dance on your cranium, how the hell are you going to just kick him in the balls or bite him? And if you indeed are getting punched, kicked, and out grappled by a superior martial artist and you get the bright idea to bite him, what's to stop him then from doing the same if not worse to you…and from a much better vantage point to boot? (Pun intended.) Bottom line…if you build a foundation on movement (timing and awareness in motion) and the attributes necessary to deliver and apply efficient strikes, controls and finishes, you just need to add the foul or dirty tactics. It doesn't work the other way around.

"Be like water…then just add dirt."



Sorry for the long post!

paddyc

colum just wondering where you train your thai at? thanks paddy

columok

Paddy,

Train BJJ/MMA with Colm O'Reilly, Mick Leonard and JK in SBG. Dont actually do real thai but have felt its effects (Think I have to thank you for teaching Mick so well ). Also have been shown some v basic stuff. Am considering heading down to Bridgestone some day soon cuz my standup is so weak. Am a firm believer that Thai is the best standup art there is!

Cheers

Colum

Damo W

columok wrote:

Damo raised an interesting point. Why self defence?

Hi Colum,

I should have been a tad clearer, I had Shotokan in my mind when I posted that...
no need for the white suits, no need for the japanese names, no need for the bowing etc., except if you are following a tradition.

columok wrote:

Ive read a recently a lot of good articles on self defence: Namely the myths involved and peoples real reasons for doing it.

A lot of the reasons people teach self-defence classes/seminars is because there can be a good income from them, if its packaged right. (and the possibility that you might get a few to wander into your mainstream classes - and you have them for the long haul).

columok wrote:

I'd steer well clear of self defence instructors- they tend to be (here comes the sweeping generalisation) paranoid nutjobs!

I love (as you put it) sweeping generalisations, I'm sure there are one or two genuine people out there

columok wrote:

The debate about training for the street and training for sport never seems to end.

I wasn't trying to re-ignite that, I think your gym's 'aliveness' principle is super and a lot more TMA'ers should take it on board!

But you know what, a lot of people don't want to compete, don't want to lose, don't want to be hit...
A lot of people enjoy the bowing, the history, the 'non-aliveness' and want to get their kata looking good..

And to each his own as long as their not being sold a 'pig in a poke' (I think that’s the right expression.)

Cheers

Damo

columok

I wasn't trying to re-ignite that, I think your gym's 'aliveness' principle is super and a lot more TMA'ers should take it on board!

Was trying to emphasise the myths of self defence elements of that article i.e. that real self defence doesnt involve squaring off against an attacker like a spaghetti western gunfight. I think a lot of the time people start martial arts because they want to go out there and kick some bad-guy ass (or beat up those bullies from school) and I think that this a very negative.

When I say self defence arts, I mean those nutjobs that teach "street-fighting/self defence". Have encountered some and I think they breed an unhealthy environment. For self defence, I really feel you should do thai, boxing, judo, BJJ, MMA or any other alive art. The best of all would have to be 400m as that would give you the best training on how to "end" a street fight- RUN AWAY!!

But you know what, a lot of people don't want to compete, don't want to lose, don't want to be hit...

Well I for one hate being hit. The cool thing about a good MMA gym is that you train safely and dont really get hit that hard. Educational contact is about it. I also reckon we compete all the time in every thing we do, whether we realise it or not. Life is one big pissing contest. We have slagging contests with our mates, we compete at computer games, football etc. etc. I used to think that competition was terrible and I kinda feared it but now I love it. I dont really care about winning or losing- just about getting better everyday.

Good to hear that you like all the tradition and that you enjoy it. Each to their own indeed my friend.

paddyc

you wanna see his brother at thai, he took to it like a fish to water, and then left cos of ferrets or something mad ike that... shame

columok

His brothers one crazy fool.

Does he have Micks desire to do serious damage?

TwoKingMick

Even more so to some degree. And it was snakes, not ferrets. Plus he lost in that novice fight he had.

columok

As far as I know Rich doesnt actually have a voice box. I may be wrong...

paddyc

columok

you said

The cool thing about a good MMA gym is that you train safely and dont really get hit that hard



you dont really get hit that hard ... how is that cool, is that not fake, say you train like that and then get into a cage... do you think the other fella at the other end thinks to himself... I gonna hit this fella but not too hard in case he dont tlike it ........ you gonna get knocked out my friend... and i know that aint nice


Mick .. you just jealous cos he better than you shame he left, and that novice fight he gave away 6kgs, thats alot when you only weight 40 yourself

columok

Paddy

I dont mean that you never have full contact, but that you dont necessarily go straight into full contact ground and pound. I reckon that by easing into heavier hits, you can develop a good enough defence to not take too many hits, though obviously you'll still eat a bit of leather. If you started heavy hits from day 1 before you have developed any defence then that isnt really gonna help you get better, though itll certainly be a wake up call and could put you off training.

Also I was talking about MMA for self defence rather than competition (as Damo was talking about Self Defence). Their tends to be two levels of training. Some train for competition, others for fitness/self defence/fun etc. The intensity is different for the two. Youd know better than me, but dont the people who attend Bridgestone beginners classes have a less intense experience than those at the fighters class?

A lot of people think that to do MMA training you have to get your face smashed in from day 1. That was what I was trying to challenge. Sorry Paddy, didnt make myself clear enough.

Also, Mick is jealous of everyone.

Bepetki

columok wrote:

I dont mean that you never have full contact, but that you dont necessarily go straight into full contact ground and pound. I reckon that by easing into heavier hits, you can develop a good enough defence to not take too many hits, though obviously you'll still eat a bit of leather. If you started heavy hits from day 1 before you have developed any defence then that isnt really gonna help you get better, though itll certainly be a wake up call and could put you off training.

I must say that makes perfect sense. But it struck me... excuse the pun... that getting knocked around for a few hours a couple of days a week, could lead to damage down the road. Is your course medically supervised (I mean this in the sense that boxers are regulated etc). In fact this goes for all high contact styles, not just BJJ. Don't want to sound like a sissy, but there's only so many cracks to the skull we humans can take!

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the reality effect. No better way to withstand a 120lb right hook at 2:00 am, than to experience getting jabbed and hooked in training. You'll see less stars, if you know what I mean.

Colm, I have to say, and at the risk of sounding like an a$$ kisser, you hold your own in each and every argument, confrontational and non-confrontational. You are polite and respectful and a credit to the style you are promoting. And I mean that sincerely.

columok

I must say that makes perfect sense. But it struck me... excuse the pun... that getting knocked around for a few hours a couple of days a week, could lead to damage down the road. Is your course medically supervised (I mean this in the sense that boxers are regulated etc). In fact this goes for all high contact styles, not just BJJ. Don't want to sound like a sissy, but there's only so many cracks to the skull we humans can take!

Well we have fully trained coaches who have a good understanding of safety. I have never been injured in training. I played rugby for years, trained Aikido and Karate and have suffered various injuries in all of these activities. As Colm O'Reilly would say, its all about training smart. That way you can get the maximum out of your training while still saying safe.

I personally hate being punched in the head.

Colm, I have to say, and at the risk of sounding like an a$$ kisser, you hold your own in each and every argument, confrontational and non-confrontational. You are polite and respectful and a credit to the style you are promoting. And I mean that sincerely.

Much appreciated. People sometimes get offended, but I try and be 100% objective about my training methods and about the training methods of others. By being fully honest and debating everything we can eliminate all the vagueness that can cloud our development.

Hope to see you on the mat soon, so we can show you how fun BJJ can be.

Danilo

"The quote did karate, it doesn't work" has to be one of the most innocent statements I have ever heard, not to mention ignorant. If you were a true martial artist you would understand that it takes years, correction, decades to actually progess properly in any martial art. You only get out of it what you put into it in terms of effort and attempt.

Gichin Funahoshi is reported to have said just before he died: "I think I am finally starting to understand this block". The block he was referring to was uche uki, one of the basic blocks that you start to study almost immediately when you begin to study shotokan.

pearsquasher

I agree - i was getting at a similar point in the Aikido thread. Takes a LONG time of seriuous study. I trained with a couple of 60 year-old Budo master teachers who are still students of their grandmaster, 74, and you can still see them scratching their heads at the martial arts he does.

columok

"The quote did karate, it doesn't work" has to be one of the most innocent statements I have ever heard,

Explain. It was a statement of personal experience and nothing more. Nothing innocent about that. Surely innocence would be not testing and trying out your martial art in a pressure tested situation. I would say innocence=naivety

If you were a true martial artist you would understand that it takes years, correction, decades to actually progess properly in any martial art.

Just because my opinion differs from you doesnt mean that I am either ignorant or not a "true martial artist" as you put it. Also, it doesnt take years and decades to progress in "all" martial arts as you claim.

You only get out of it what you put into it in terms of effort and attempt.

True of anything. Provided your efforts and attempts are being used efficiently

Gichin Funahoshi is reported to have said just before he died: "I think I am finally starting to understand this block". The block he was referring to was uche uki, one of the basic blocks that you start to study almost immediately when you begin to study shotokan.

I think this shows a major flaw in karate if it takes a lifetime of study to use it as you claim. I would challenge that after this lifetime of study you could use Shotokan. Also just because Funakoshi said it doesnt make it valid.


pearsquasher,

I think a major point of the Aikido thread was that you shouldnt have to spend a lifetime studying something to form an opinion of it.

Colm_OReilly

it takes years, correction, decades to actually progess properly in any martial art.

Why should it take so long? I did Kenpo religiously for 9 years. I thought I'd be more than able to hold my own with guys with little or no experience. I did some sparring, and I sucked big time.

Now if I want to improve my stand up, I'll spar and train with Boxers/ Thai Boxers. Why? Because the training methods have prooved time and time again to increase your skill in the shortest time and also reaps the largest reward (in terms of development)

Here's another story I'd like to share. Once Colum and I were internet enemies. Our UCD message boards were engaged in a war of words of Mafia proportions but Colum and his Aikido buddies agreed to a cross training session. Colum had being doing Aikido for 4 or so years. I put him up against someone with 20 hours training under his belt. My guy won. Why? Because of the training methods.

You only get out of it what you put into it in terms of effort and attempt.

Exactly.

pearsquasher

[......and the Hijacking continues!] :rolleyes:

If you ask a golfer to play a game of tennis, do you think he'll necessarliy do well just because he hits balls too?


Anyway, someone was asking about Shotokan........ a different ballgame altogether.

columok

No hijacking threads here. Just responding to Danilo calling me innocent, ignorant and "not a true martial artist" and your agreement. I think Im entitled to that.

Tomsie was starting Thai in a year and asked about the value of Shotokan Karate as self defence. I recommended that he should just do Thai. Both yourself and Danilo tried to use anecdotal evidence to try and illustrate your points, points that both myself and Colm disputed. We dont believe in anecdotes as being proof. Rather we rely on our own experiences.

If you ask a golfer to play a game of tennis, do you think he'll necessarliy do well just because he hits balls too?

No but if you asked a squash player to play a game of tennis then thats a different story. Golf requires no timing, energy or motion wherein the ball never moves, it is static. Its situation may vary but nonetheless what you see is what you get. No timing required, only precision (not demeaning golf, challenging sport, very skillful).

Colm_OReilly

not demeaning golf, challenging sport, very skillful

Colum there is no skill in golf, only technique. The cue is fixed, there is zero time limits in which to make a decision and there is no human opposition to your shots. It's an example of a purely technically based activity.

Of course, once my dad mentioned this down and the golf course and was shouted down before he got a chance to explain! Golf is a very difficult sport to play, just because some sport/activity isn't skill based doesn't diminish its difficulty.

columok

Colm,

Thanks for the clarification.

A quick question: Would an external influence make it more skill based? Would things like factoring in the wind not represent this? Obviously its still predominantly technique based, much like a kata would be.

Cheers,

Colum

tomsie100

"Gichin Funahoshi is reported to have said just before he died: "I think I am finally starting to understand this block". The block he was referring to was uche uki, one of the basic blocks that you start to study almost immediately when you begin to study shotokan."

I read in a book that some of the old time karate guys from japan used karate to understand buddhism and espically empytyness in buddhism and the reason it might of took him that long to understand the block is because of his mixing karate with spirtuality But i guess nobody is going to understand what he meant except Gichin Funahoshi

bongo bongo

If you saw the best of the Irish SKI last week you would have had a laugh there sending a squad to Athens this year what a waste of time and cash they would be better off training, the mens team kata winners one of them triped and still won, tells you how bad the runners up were.
I have never seen such a bad standard really really bad. someone needs to take note.:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Charlie3dan

Hi bongo, the team kata was pretty poor I'll admit. The teams were club teams and all thrown together at the last minute. The squad have a different team selected for Athens.

Apart from that I don't see why you think the standard was so poor. I've competed in tournaments all over the country and certainly the standard in individuals is as good as any I've seen if not better.

Can you tell me what else you thought was poor?

I'm an SKIF member and one of the competitors at the nationals so I'm interested in your feedback.

Charlie3dan

In terms of shotokan being good for self defense. Yes it can be.....but.....

Firstly, you'll need to take time to perfect the techniques and the art, you won't be just thrown into a ring on your first night. Secondly, if you only do shotokan a couple of nights a week, you'll need to do additional conditioning work. And thirdly, practise hitting something, maki wara if possible or punching bag.

Nothingcompares

5 year old thread !

Charlie3dan

Indeed, well I'm blaming bongo bongo

vasch_ro

The new UFc light heavy weight champ has a traditional karate backround

chimmychanga

its impossible to say which style is best because there is such a difference in standard within any style. I've seen a lot of gob****es teaching shotokan karate and I've seen some fantastic fighters and coaches too. (The same goes for all martial arts). If you want to practice good Shotokan, try train with a club that is affiliated to the KUGB, all the KUGB instructors are without doubt the very best traditional karateka in the world (Frank Brennan, Andy Sherry, terry O'Neill etc). Fact.

bongo bongo

Ok Charlie this is what I think, having been out of competitions for some time now, but love to watch, and have travelled around the country to a lot of open competitions, the first thing I would like to say is, that this was the SKI Nationals, in other words the all-Irelands, and the venue for such an event was a disgrace, there was one male toilet and one female toilet for all the competitors and specators to share. Also, having spoken to some of the competitors is was too small a venue, with no warm up areas and no proper changing facilities etc. You also said, that the team kata were teams put together on the day, this is suposed to be your all Irelands, so surely this means teams should be training together, not just like follow the leader, as one of the lads said "it is quite degrading".

I would like to add that the mens senior kumite was a very good standard and great to watch, but not world class standard. If you don't mind me asking how often does your squad get together with coaches etc with only a few weeks to the world championships. Also, how often has the squad entered open competitions of world class standard, as I am sure you know no training is as good as live competitions.

Check out the U.K. team, really hot.

104494431

For self defense: Keysi

Charlie3dan

The venue wasn't fantastic but as is most often the case with martial arts in this country, we end up training and competing in dance halls and basketball courts. There were changing areas and the bathroom facilities were adequate. I went into the school hall ways to do my warm-up. Maybe from a PR point of view it wasn't a great venue, but as a competitor it didn't bother me.

Yes the teams should have been made up from the squad members but unfortunately some of the instructors wanted club teams. The teams that practice together at squads and other comps were basically split because of this.

Squad sessions were once a month but are increasing now. We've also had additional squad sessions at training courses and squad members often travel to each others clubs for extra training.
We get to as many competitions as possible but much of it is at our own expense so it's not possible to attend more than a handful of internationals each year. We were in Holland in March for an invitational tournament which went well.
All I can say is that we're doing all we can and we are strong competitors in every international event. I certainly think we'll have an excellent chance at the world champs in Athens.

In any case, I don't see why you are so intent on bad mouthing the SKI members (i saw you started a similar thread over in MMA also). You have some fair comments to make no doubt, but your post on the previous page of this thread hasn't been justified.

bongo bongo

Hi Charlie, not being nasty, but speeding up training 7 or 8 weeks before a world championships to me is a waste of time, usually competitors do this for a full year beforehand, I heard a squad went to Holland from some of the guys at the competition, but that seems to be it on International competitions, 2008 should have been full of international competitions for you all, ryanair flights to the uk are very cheap. As for the venue, plenty of sports halls available, as I don't agree with warming up in a hall way before an all Ireland competition in a run down school hall to be adaquate. Just my opinion after all, that's what boards.ie is all about. And as I said my opinion, very poor standard. Good luck with your training and the World Championships.

getz

tomsie100 wrote: »

"Gichin Funahoshi is reported to have said just before he died: "I think I am finally starting to understand this block". The block he was referring to was uche uki, one of the basic blocks that you start to study almost immediately when you begin to study shotokan."

I read in a book that some of the old time karate guys from japan used karate to understand buddhism and espically empytyness in buddhism and the reason it might of took him that long to understand the block is because of his mixing karate with spirtuality But i guess nobody is going to understand what he meant except Gichin Funahoshi

it is standard practice for the japanese sensi to say i am still learning this block or kata-when i first started that was in 1966 .my first masters were charles mack and kanazowa both great teachers,but to answer the first question, is who uses these styles in self defence ?i know the japanese police use shotokan and the english police[c.i.d] are taught a form of aikido,the only thing i have against kickboxing and korean styles is that they are a young mans self defence and when you get to my age 68 you dont want to be bouncing about

Charlie3dan

bongo bongo wrote: »

Hi Charlie, not being nasty, but speeding up training 7 or 8 weeks before a world championships to me is a waste of time, usually competitors do this for a full year beforehand, I heard a squad went to Holland from some of the guys at the competition, but that seems to be it on International competitions, 2008 should have been full of international competitions for you all, ryanair flights to the uk are very cheap. As for the venue, plenty of sports halls available, as I don't agree with warming up in a hall way before an all Ireland competition in a run down school hall to be adaquate. Just my opinion after all, that's what boards.ie is all about. And as I said my opinion, very poor standard. Good luck with your training and the World Championships.

Some of the squad did travel to the UK for competitions and it's more than just flights that need to be taken into account.
Squad sessions are being increased now but I know most of the squad themselves are training every day and have been doing so for well over a year. As I said, team members have also been traveling to each others clubs to train.

Sounds like you showed up to the comp, asked a few questions and made some snap judgements.

You are of course entitled to your opinion and yes I do know what boards is about but I think you were way off the mark with these commments:

bongo bongo wrote: »

If you saw the best of the Irish SKI last week you would have had a laugh there sending a squad to Athens this year what a waste of time and cash they would be better off training, the mens team kata winners one of them triped and still won, tells you how bad the runners up were.
I have never seen such a bad standard really really bad. someone needs to take note.:pac::pac::pac::pac:

There's a link to where i train in my sig, you are welcome to come and have a "laugh" any time. Thank you for your good wishes.

chimmychanga

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Some of the squad did travel to the UK for competitions and it's more than just flights that need to be taken into account.

Don't forget about time off work either!! Used up all my holidays one year because of a lot of international compos, u'd be a brave man in this recession asking for the amount of time off required to be competitive with the european lads!!:(

Damo W

chimmychanga wrote: »

If you want to practice good Shotokan

Hi Chimmychanga,

Can you let us know what 'good Shotokan' is, genuine question, just wondering what it is in your opinion.

Cheers

Damo W

Charlie3dan wrote: »

In terms of shotokan being good for self defense. Yes it can be.....but.....

Firstly, you'll need to take time to perfect the techniques and the art, you won't be just thrown into a ring on your first night. Secondly, if you only do shotokan a couple of nights a week, you'll need to do additional conditioning work. And thirdly, practise hitting something, maki wara if possible or punching bag.

Hi Charlie,

Is there other supplementry training tht you might suggest, some grappling, some throws/takedowns, chokes/strangles, working against trainied and untrained, weapons... alternative sparring to the shobu ippon or shobu sanbon?

Adjustment of techniques, high kicks to low kicks, alternative use of 'blocks', different guard, training without gi.... etc.

Just throwing them out there.

Cheers

getz

chimmychanga wrote: »

its impossible to say which style is best because there is such a difference in standard within any style. I've seen a lot of gob****es teaching shotokan karate and I've seen some fantastic fighters and coaches too. (The same goes for all martial arts). If you want to practice good Shotokan, try train with a club that is affiliated to the KUGB, all the KUGB instructors are without doubt the very best traditional karateka in the world (Frank Brennan, Andy Sherry, terry O'Neill etc). Fact.

yes the first time i met andy sherry and terry o,neil was at crystal palace in the european champs in 1968 ,a few years later i had the honour to train with terry in manchester ,both without doubt are at the very top of shotokan karate, as is charles mac my old teacher

Damo W

getz wrote: »

yes the first time i met andy sherry and terry o,neil was at crystal palace in the european champs in 1968 ,a few years later i had the honour to train with terry in manchester ,both without doubt are at the very top of shotokan karate, as is charles mac my old teacher

Hi Getz,

With your longevity in the martial arts, what would you consider to be 'good shotokan', have you experienced other martial arts and if so, what would you recommend outside of Shotokan (if any).

Cheers

Charlie3dan

Damo W wrote: »

Hi Charlie,

Is there other supplementry training tht you might suggest, some grappling, some throws/takedowns, chokes/strangles, working against trainied and untrained, weapons... alternative sparring to the shobu ippon or shobu sanbon?

Adjustment of techniques, high kicks to low kicks, alternative use of 'blocks', different guard, training without gi.... etc.

Just throwing them out there.

Cheers

Hey Damo, Hope you're keeping well.
Indeed all the things you mention are important and we could add to the list all day but just from a broad view I think the three things I mentioned are vital in transferring shotokan from the dojo to a self defense situation.

Damo W

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Hey Damo, Hope you're keeping well.
Indeed all the things you mention are important and we could add to the list all day but just from a broad view I think the three things I mentioned are vital in transferring shotokan from the dojo to a self defense situation.

Hi Charlie,

Not to bad now and yourself?
How's training?
Nice website, just clicked on it there.

How about stylised attacks (e.g. stepping punch, from stance, hand on hip etc etc) yea or nay in the transfer from dojo to a SD situation, this probably would be an important one or would it?

What do you think?

Cheers

Damo W

vasch_ro wrote: »

The new UFc light heavy weight champ has a traditional karate backround

Indeed, also BJJ Black Belt.

Have you seen his new instructional series or a trailer from it?

getz

Damo W wrote: »

Hi Getz,

With your longevity in the martial arts, what would you consider to be 'good shotokan', have you experienced other martial arts and if so, what would you recommend outside of Shotokan (if any).

Cheers

i first started in judo at school in 1952, i took up shotokan with c mac after meeting him in the budokan in london in 1966-when i moved back to the north of england in 1975 i took up shukokia the area in which i now and again teach,during 1980 i also took up thi kick boxing just to find a little more about it ,in my years with charles mac i also graded in ,aikido,if you are asking me what i think is the best[i will be called for this] i believe it would all depend on your build speed or which you are most comfortable with , i will always praise shotokan if only for its power and strong basic stance ,the tree must have good roots,at the end of the day it is important that what ever style you take up you must enjoy doing it, or you will never fully understand or learn,