United fans - Giggs??

dirkey_wynne

Just wondering guys, of all you Utd fans out there - how do ye feel about Giggs? I personally am growing really tired of his poor performances - to be honest I've wanted rid of him for a couple of years. He has done loads for the club, and been a great servant, but his performances have gone a bit stale.

At the end of the 2002-2003 season, there were many rumours of him leaving the club, and did you notice how his performances picked up noticeably during this time? He seems to need a good kick up the a*se to get himself going, which is quite annoying.

He is generally committed whole-heartedly to the cause, though over the last few seasons I've noticed an increasing trend of, when he loses the ball, standing with his hands on his hips looking bemused as if it's someone else fault.

I really think we need to bring someone in (preferably the Duffer) to put it to Giggs. Having someone challenge him for his place would really bring the best out of him.

Thoughts?

muffen

I'm not a united fan, but I do think that Giggs is getting a little old now... you can see that he doesn't have that magic glow around him anymore.

I think its really unfortunate that he chose to play for Wales and not England... maybe trying to keep a spot in the England team would get him a little more motivated... ah well... I kinda agree... united should sell him while he's still worth something.. because I strongly doubt he'll get any better...

SteM

I'd like to see a younger left winger come in to push Giggs but wouldn't want to see Giggs sold.

The way I see it Giggs, the Nevilles, Butt and Scholes should only be sold if they feel unhappy at the club (as has happened with Butt). They're all still very good players and will do a job for the club over the next few years, they haven't cost us anything except in wages so it's not like we need to recoup money on the sale of them. They bring exprience and unity to what is becoming a young squad too.

phenom

He is getting on now and I think it is time to replace him. I would love to see Duff or Van der Vaart playing left mid . He has been good for United and He should leave on a high note.

beer enigma

I think for Giggs sake, its probably better that he goes - although he will be a loss to Utd as he makes a great utility player when he's on form.

It's very much like Parlour for Arsenal (although he gave 120% for us last year when he played). Parlour wasn't getting the regular games & says that his form was starting to suffer because of it. Im really sad to see Parlour leave Arsenal, but for his sake I'm glad....I think the same should hold true with Giggsy

Waylander

I disagree with all of you. Giggs was as good as any other United player last season with the possible exceptions of Scholes and Ruud. I also think theses three players have a very good understanding built upon each others games. As for a replacement in the longterm, that is why Ronaldo was brought in. I can not understand why United fans keep giving Giggs a hard time. To my mind Duff and Pires are the only ones close to himin that position in the whole league, and there is very little in between those three players.

eirebhoy

I'm suprised Ferguson hasn't bought a left sided midfielder. It was looking certain that he'd get Robben.

dirkey_wynne

Originally posted by Waylander
I disagree with all of you. Giggs was as good as any other United player last season with the possible exceptions of Scholes and Ruud. I also think theses three players have a very good understanding built upon each others games. As for a replacement in the longterm, that is why Ronaldo was brought in. I can not understand why United fans keep giving Giggs a hard time. To my mind Duff and Pires are the only ones close to himin that position in the whole league, and there is very little in between those three players.

Giggs when he's on form is amazing. But how often does it happen? 4-5 times a season? Just not enough. He's way too inconsistent - always has been. And we were always promised that at 28 he'd find the consistency. That's been and gone. It's more the hands on hips attitude that tells me his time is drawing to a close. Watch him closely next season, and you'll see it at least once a game - him standing there, hands on hips, after he's given the ball away. I hope to God I'm proved wrong, as on top of his game he's electrifying, but I really don't think I will be.

SteM

Originally posted by Waylander
As for a replacement in the longterm, that is why Ronaldo was brought in.

I hope not, I hate seeing right footed players being put on the left wing and vice versa. You'll always get a good game or 2 out of them like that but not consistently. The same as Giggs when he was put on the right - sometimes he was great but most of the time he was out of the game.

Waylander

Dirkey I think you are being very harsh here. He is one of the best wingers in the country for tackling back. I cannot believe you are saying that he does not do it enough. Stem, I think Ronaldo can use either foot, and he has always looked more comfortable on the left to me anyway.

SteM

I haven't seen much of Ronaldo to suggest he'll be decent on the left without having to cut inside on his right foot all the time, and defenders usually catch onto that quickly. The first game in Euro 2004 when he came on as a sub he played there and almost every cross he put in from the left was overhit. Maybe he'll improve with his left foot but I see him as a right winger at the moment.

cournioni

I don't know about selling Giggs just yet, but I do think he needs some competition on the left tbh.

The reason why Giggs has had alot of poor performances over the last two seasons is because Fergie seems to persist on playing him up front with Ruud. It just doesn't work. Giggs always seems to play better on the left. In most games anyway.

dirkey_wynne

Originally posted by Waylander
Dirkey I think you are being very harsh here. He is one of the best wingers in the country for tackling back. I cannot believe you are saying that he does not do it enough. Stem, I think Ronaldo can use either foot, and he has always looked more comfortable on the left to me anyway.

Don't get me wrong - I know he tackles back a lot. More than any other winger. But just watch next season, and I guarantee you'll see him at least once per game with hands on his hips. Look out for it.

I'm not definite we should sell him either - but I definitely think competition on the left is needed for him. It would give him the kick up the a*se that he needs. And we all know he needs it - he can do it when the pressure is on (witness as I already stated his performances coming towards the end of 2002-2003 season, when he thought he may be sold) so this is why he needs competition.

Looking at how he played in those final games of that season I find it intensely irritating that he doesn't perform like that consistently, and all I can put it down to is complacency. It's certainly not lack of ability/work ethic.

Waylander

Don't get me wrong - I know he tackles back a lot. More than any other winger. But just watch next season, and I guarantee you'll see him at least once per game with hands on his hips. Look out for it.

Jesus man they are high standards you are setting. Even Keano, Viera and Gerard take a breather every now and again. As I say, the entire team played poorly last season, to single out one player is very harsh I think. Stem I disagree on Ronaldo, I think he will thrive on either wing in the future. In relation to those crosses in the first game of Euro 2004, I thought he was putting the ball into good positions, but no other Portugal players were attacking it. Ronaldo was one of the players of the tournament playing in that left position. Virtually every pundit I read had him in their team of the tournament.

dirkey_wynne

Originally posted by Waylander
Jesus man they are high standards you are setting. Even Keano, Viera and Gerard take a breather every now and again. As I say, the entire team played poorly last season, to single out one player is very harsh I think.

I'm not talking about taking a breather. You obviously haven't noticed it. It's when he f*cks up, he stands there with a pout, looking at one of the other players like it's their fault.

Yes, the entire team played badly last year. But can you point out the last season Giggs had a good season on a whole? At least over 3 years ago. That's what I'm talking about. Consistently under performing.

leeroybrown

The problem I always have with Giggs is that the difference between him playing well and the way he plays the rest of the season is so big. He puts in four or five performances per season where he almost single handedly wins United the game. By contrast, for most of the rest of the season he will be consistently mediocre, and will not look like he is going to break a game. Duff and Pires have similar qualities but they are both more consistent.

Obviously this is judging Giggs by very high standards, but anything else wouldn't do his abilities justice.

cournioni

Do you not think that is partly down to Giggs being played out of position leeroy?

LegacyUser

I do not want Giggs sold. His performances have been average recently but the whole Utd team was a disaster last year. On and off the field.

What I definitely think needs to happen, is another winger(left or right) needs to be brought in!

Big Ears

Originally posted by Waylander
. Stem I disagree on Ronaldo, I think he will thrive on either wing in the future. In relation to those crosses in the first game of Euro 2004, I thought he was putting the ball into good positions, but no other Portugal players were attacking it. Ronaldo was one of the players of the tournament playing in that left position. Virtually every pundit I read had him in their team of the tournament.

now you're talking **** .

on the right side of midfield Ronaldo would deserve to be in a team of the tournament ,but on the left he was terrable .

you know with crosses your meant to look up and cross to a teamate , and not just fire it in any old way . (if your under pressure and u know the box is full u put in crosses without looking to much , bu he was consistently hitting bad ones to nowhere)

Ronaldo is not left-footed and it would be a serious disadvantage to United if they played him on the left .

Waylander

you know with crosses your meant to look up and cross to a teamate , and not just fire it in any old way . (if your under pressure and u know the box is full u put in crosses without looking to much , bu he was consistently hitting bad ones to nowhere)

I understand what you are saying big ears but I do not entirely agree with it. Ronaldo worked the ball into a good position sevral times but could not do much else then cross it when he got near the by line. By doing this he is doing his job as a winger, if his team mates have not followed him, and he is surrounded by a couple of the opposition he has very few options. Putting the ball across the box to show what could have happened had his team mates got forward isnot a bad tactic, unfortunately his team mates did not respond at all. There are times when you should be able to play a ball into a general area and expect your teammates to be waiting to attack the ball. These attacks were notlightnening quick and his team mates could and should have been waiting for these crosses. The crosses were not over hit, the deepest one was around the back post. Pauletta was the only man forward and it was Portugals lack of interest in going forward that was the main problem, not Ronaldos crosses.

SteM

Waylander, I don't understand your idea of having one of the most promising right footed talents around and playing him on the left. Doesn't make sense to me at all. During a game if wingers are having no luck wherever they are playing they should switch wings, and that's what Ronaldo did during Euro 2004 and that's when he started having some joy. If he had have played consistently on the left he would have ended up having a poor tournament.

Then again I could never understand why the tinkerman played Duff on the right sometimes last season and why Ferguson persists with playing Giggs up front

Waylander

During a game if wingers are having no luck wherever they are playing they should switch wings, and that's what Ronaldo did during Euro 2004 and that's when he started having some joy. If he had have played consistently on the left he would have ended up having a poor tournament.

There is no way you can back that statement up, especially as he was predominantly on the left with Figo on the right. They were switching around during games but that was more to confuse the opposition then because Ronaldo can't play on the left. I thought he performed well on both wings.

dirkey_wynne

So would you rather see Ronaldo on the left than the right Waylander? And if you reckon he was bought to replace Giggsy on the left in the long run, doesn't that just mean we run into the same problem of finding someone to fill in on the right?? Either way you look at it we need a new winger - which is what I'm saying, and imho we need someone for the left to challenge Giggs and give him the spur he obviously needs.

Big Ears

Originally posted by Waylander
There is no way you can back that statement up, especially as he was predominantly on the left with Figo on the right. They were switching around during games but that was more to confuse the opposition then because Ronaldo can't play on the left. I thought he performed well on both wings.

u dont remember Euro 2004 at all do you ?

SteM

Originally posted by Waylander
There is no way you can back that statement up, especially as he was predominantly on the left with Figo on the right. They were switching around during games but that was more to confuse the opposition then because Ronaldo can't play on the left. I thought he performed well on both wings.

I still don't understand your idea of having a great right footed talent playing on the left wing - what's your reasoning behind this?

Your original post said:

As for a replacement in the longterm, that is why Ronaldo was brought in.

I don't think Ronaldo was brought in as a replacement for Giggs on the left and feel that United still need one.

Perhaps with Figo being on the right for Portugal it was felt that Ronaldo had to be fitted in somewhere but that isn't the case with United. I felt his crosses from the left against Greece in the opening match were poor, he didn't take his time or look up, if there was no one in the box he should have been holding the ball up! This to me would be a sign that he certainly favours his right foot over his left as he was rushing everything in that game when he was on the left. In the matches after that I saw of him after that (and I'll admit I wasn't interested in Euro 2004) he was on the right as much as the left.

Anyway it looks like a 'you say this and I say that' thing here so I'm gonna stop posting on this for now and get back to work.

Dewey

I cant belive so many are saying Giggs should go. I think Giggs is still one of the best wingers in the Premiership. But he has been inconsistent for the last few seasons but i would still have him on the left. I think Duffer is better and i would love to have him at United but we had the chance to sign him last season and we didnt.

Also Ronaldos crossing on the left for Portugal was terriable. he was much better on the right. I think when fergie brought him he didnt know weather to play him on the left or the right but he is much better on the right for club and country.

smemon

yeah i wouldnt mind seeing giggs go. there was one game in europe last year, cant remember who it was against but he was outstanding and looked the ryan giggs we know.

in the league especially he's been poor, the left side is weak and now he's lost his attacking ability, theres no real value leaving him on the left as his doesnt cover defensively.

inter were, maybe are still interested in him. 8m was the figure i heard.

id love to see duff at utd, it would complete our flanks and leave us in a great position for the future with 2 steady wingers. i think fergie didnt really rate duff at blackburn, he was a star in a poor side. now he's become one of chelsea's top players i think he'll regret not signing him.

the left side is the only position that hasnt been tampered with really the past few years. van der vaart might be worth a shot but he's no duff.

Big Ears

Van Der Vart is primarily a cenrtal attcking player and is not a winger .

But said that he is early on in his carear and he's got the talent to become a very good winger .

phenom

smemon wrote:

yeah i wouldnt mind seeing giggs go. there was one game in europe last year, cant remember who it was against but he was outstanding and looked the ryan giggs we know.

in the league especially he's been poor, the left side is weak and now he's lost his attacking ability, theres no real value leaving him on the left as his doesnt cover defensively.

inter were, maybe are still interested in him. 8m was the figure i heard.

id love to see duff at utd, it would complete our flanks and leave us in a great position for the future with 2 steady wingers. i think fergie didnt really rate duff at blackburn, he was a star in a poor side. now he's become one of chelsea's top players i think he'll regret not signing him.

the left side is the only position that hasnt been tampered with really the past few years. van der vaart might be worth a shot but he's no duff.

I agree there. He has been quite poor in the league games last season .
Duff would be my prefered replacement for the left side but he would be very hard to get off Chelsea now. Kieran Richardson looks to be turning into a good player but imo is not ready for a First team place.

The Muppet

Dewey wrote:

I think Duffer is better and i would love to have him at United but we had the chance to sign him last season and we didnt.

I can,t believe the amount of united fans saying they would love to see Duff play fro united. There is no way Fergie is going to waste Uniteds money on a player that spens most of his season on the treatment table rather than playing. Don't get me wrong when he is fit Duff is a class player and woulf fit perfectly onto the united left wing but as I said unfortunately he misses too many games becaus he is injury prone and that is a situation that is likely to worsen as he gets older. If United were going to buy him they would have done so when he stalled on the Chelsea deal in anticiption of an approach from United. I dont see Duff ever going to OT unless he gets a miracle cure for ability to pick up injuries.

PHB

I can't see Duff at United until he gets his fitness or gets built up or somethign so he isn't injured. Fergie will see the same way.

Giggs is a great player and he only had a bad season by his standerds last year.
He was forced to play up front at the start of the season and adjusted rather well to it if you ask me.
Then when we went back to his role on the left here are his stats for the seasons past

http://www.premiersoccerstats.com/PlayerHome.cfm?PlayerId=GIGGSR&TEAMNAME=Man.%20Utd.

His assists were down but his goals were up.
He had a badish season as a winger but got more goals out of it.
I would like someone young to start chalanging to replace him everytually

Big Ears

The Muppet wrote:

I .as I said unfortunately he misses too many games becaus he is injury prone and that is a situation that is likely to worsen as he gets older. .

Like Steven Gerrard being injury prone worsened as he has got older ?