Holidays with daughter

Ph3n0m

Just background information

I have a daughter (9yrs old). Myself and her mother split up years ago, but I still see my daughter every weekend. This year I was planning to take my daughter away for a foriegn holiday, nothing unreasonable, maybe a week in the sun.

The problem is that 3 weeks, I was at a wedding with my current gf, and my daughter. Now my daughter went off and played with other children that were part of the wedding party, they were playing in a room in the hotel and were checked on every 15 - 30 minutes.

Now my daughter's mother flipped at me for "leaving my daughter on her own" - which I feel I didnt, but as a result of that, she immediately said I could not take my daughter away.

I then explained the holiday I would be taking her on, would just be myself and my daughter, so that possibilities of her "being left on her own" doesnt even come into question.

With that said, everything was resolved, when I explained that.

However last night I got a text message saying

"did you book anything for the holidays yet. i want to talk to you tomorrow and please dont get upset with what I have to say"

Now, knowing my daughter's mother, I can easily speculate that she is going to say, again, that I cannot take my daughter away.

The problem is, any reason she has ever given, has been spurios at best. First it was, she didnt want my daughter to fly (hence why I couldnt get my daughter a passport for 4 years), then it was because of the incident I related above, and now, again, some other stupid reason will raise its head tonight, when I meet up with her.

My position is that I do have join custody with her of my daughter, and I do have gaurdianship, in the unfortunate case of her mother dying.

Should I tell her in no uncertain terms that I am taking my daughter away, or should I just bring her back to court over the matter (something I have no problem in doing)

Just looking for opinions as I am in two minds on what to do

gobby

I think court should really be a last option.

Why is it that your ex doen't seem to trust you? I am thinking that there must be more reasons than the wedding incident. Is there something else or is she just over protective?

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Ph3n0m
My position is that I do have join custody with her of my daughter, and I do have gaurdianship, in the unfortunate case of her mother dying

I am also separated from my daughters father. I can never understand mothers who cause this much hassle with fathers who wish to continue their responsibility’s with their kids, you would think that they would be happy to still have support from a caring father.
Anyway, I would first hear her out with what she has to say.
In the contract regarding your custody, are the holiday times stated clearly? If they are then she has no leg to stand on and you are well within your rights to bring your child on holidays.
Does the mother have a b/f? I’m just wondering because she seems to be acting in a very jealous way. I cannot understand why she is so opposed to this unless she still needs to get back at you for something?
Listen to her, then if she is still saying no, be very calm, ask her if she thinks she really has your daughters interests at heart, does she not think the child deserves to continue to spend time with her father, does she not think that in order for your daughter to grow up healthy and happy that this is in fact a requirement. Does she want her daughter to grow up with a bitter and twisted image of how fathers behave towards their kids. Make the woman see how she is effecting her daughter and to keep her own feelings towards you out of the equation. Be very calm and logical and do not rise to an emotional level.
if this does not work, only then should you be reminding her that you can bring her to court over this.
As regards the holiday, I would suggest a few days in Disney Land Paris and maybe a few days elsewhere so you can both be happy with your trip. She cannot possibly say no to that!
Good luck with it

Sleipnir

It sounds to be like she is looking for any reason for you not to take your daughter on holiday. Possibly even for
"She'll like him more cos he took her on holiday"

Put your foot down, you have every reason to take her and your ex has no good reason not to allow it.

she didnt want my daughter to fly

So I guess she doesn't allow her daughter to get into a car either. :rolleyes:

daveg

My GF's brother is in a simular situation. He has a good relationship with the mother but every now and again she gets flaky and starts getting awkward - leying down riles and such.

Imo this is one of the worst kinds of selfishness. Using your daughter as a pawn to get back at you. You need to put your foot down. Sure - listen to what she has to say and be calm and reasonable but let her know you will go back to court if you have to.

Sleepy

Does your daughter know about the holiday already?

If so, remind your wife that the child will resent her for not letting her go, not you.

Beruthiel's suggestion of Disney Land Paris is a good one and believe me, you'll enjoy it as much as your daughter does. There really is an amazing atmosphere there that makes you feel like you're 5 years old again!

A little white lie about already having it booked can't do any harm either

Ph3n0m

Anyway, I would first hear her out with what she has to say.
Naturally I will, but by now I can predict most of what she will say, I just have to try and keep my temper under control, which has proved difficult when dealing with her in recent time, simply because of her stubborness and stupidity

In the contract regarding your custody, are the holiday times stated clearly? If they are then she has no leg to stand on and you are well within your rights to bring your child on holidays.

No, however that did not stop me from having no problem with her taking my daughter to Waterford several weeks ago, where my daughter also nearly lost her finger under her mother supervision

Does the mother have a b/f? I’m just wondering because she seems to be acting in a very jealous way. I cannot understand why she is so opposed to this unless she still needs to get back at you for something?

She is actually married with another daughter aswell

Listen to her, then if she is still saying no, be very calm, ask her if she thinks she really has your daughters interests at heart, does she not think the child deserves to continue to spend time with her father, does she not think that in order for your daughter to grow up healthy and happy that this is in fact a requirement. Does she want her daughter to grow up with a bitter and twisted image of how fathers behave towards their kids. Make the woman see how she is effecting her daughter and to keep her own feelings towards you out of the equation. Be very calm and logical and do not rise to an emotional level.

All very reasonable and lucid arguements, however she has never really been the most rational of people

if this does not work, only then should you be reminding her that you can bring her to court over this.

That goes without saying

As regards the holiday, I would suggest a few days in Disney Land Paris and maybe a few days elsewhere so you can both be happy with your trip. She cannot possibly say no to that!

The holiday I had in mind was really only a weekend break in Paris or Rome for my daughter, since she has told me countless times she would love to go

The sad fact is that it will be my daughter that will lose out, if her mother does as I expect her too, and that just pisses the hell out of me

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Ph3n0m
The sad fact is that it will be my daughter that will lose out, if her mother does as I expect her too, and that just pisses the hell out of me

surely the woman gets this??? If she continues to behave in that manner there will come a time when your daughter will see her for what she is and she will not be happy. It’s not that far off either, I give it 4 more years and your daughter will have the situation down pat.
Whatever you decide to do, make sure your daughter is in no doubt how much you care for her. Crap like this makes my blood boil

however she has never really been the most rational of people

maybe so, but continue to ask the reasonable and lucid questions till you get an answer from her

daveg

It is my honest belief that a child in those circumstances will grow up to resent her mother for her interference in your relationship. I also think if she does block your holiday plans you should go back to court and get it settled legally. If she is as irrational as you say this will always be a conflict. At least if it the details of your custody are legally defined (with the holidays) then this should not occur again.

Ph3n0m

Originally posted by Beruthiel
surely the woman gets this??? If she continues to behave in that manner there will come a time when your daughter will see her for what she is and she will not be happy. It’s not that far off either, I give it 4 more years and your daughter will have the situation down pat.
Whatever you decide to do, make sure your daughter is in no doubt how much you care for her. Crap like this makes my blood boil

however she has never really been the most rational of people

maybe so, but continue to ask the reasonable and lucid questions till you get an answer from her

I intend to, the last thing I want to happen is a huge arguement to explode in front of my daughter - she doesnt need to see or hear it.

And in a previously asked question - no, my daughter knows nothing of the holiday, it was going to be a "great" suprise to her

RicardoSmith

Ask her to put it in writing that she won't let you take the daughter on holiday and the reasons why. I suspect that you'll get no rational behaviour until you do this. Rather than get stressed and emotional about it. Stick to the letter of the law and use the law to exercise your rights. If she won't put it in writing, then take her to court as theres no point arguing with her.

bombidol

Straight to court with it man, straight to court. you need to show her that you have just as much right to say Yes as she has to say No

Kell

I take it you have full visitation rights? If thats the case, then the only thing to do is try and not lose your temper (I know it is extremely hard when dealing with an irrational person) and should she still say no, deal the legal card.

Everyone here has rightly said, that your daughter will see through your ex at some point in the near future, but thats no help to you when you want to spend time with her now.

K-

Gillo

I'm split from my gf also but I'd suggest you ask here why exactly you can't take her.
Is it possible that she's afraid you'll go but won't come back?
(I am not suggestign that you have even thought of this, by the way)

If I was in your shoes, I'd sell the idea to her partly on the basis that she will also get a holiday from your daughter (don't mean that to sound bad buy you know what I mean) and a welcome break from the great work which she does the rest of the year, also let her know that you understand how she will miss your daughter afterall she is such a wonderful mother and that you'll call home ever few days. I've always in any arugement with anybody that's it's best to sell your side on the benefits to the other person, if you go in guns blazing it's just gonna cos a ruck; your ex will be pissed, and even if you take your daughter on hols, they will be have bad memories.

I'd also avoid court if at all possible, at teh very minimum it will take ages and the holiday (in this instance) will be well gone by the time the case comes up.

You could also "gamble" and offer to let your wife come, chances are she will say no, but it shows that even though you are determined to take your daughter away you are also willing to compromise.

hope my little rant helps, and enjoy the hols.

fitz

Originally posted by gillo


If I was in your shoes, I'd sell the idea to her partly on the basis that she will also get a holiday from your daughter (don't mean that to sound bad buy you know what I mean) and a welcome break from the great work which she does the rest of the year, also let her know that you understand how she will miss your daughter afterall she is such a wonderful mother and that you'll call home ever few days. I've always in any arugement with anybody that's it's best to sell your side on the benefits to the other person, if you go in guns blazing it's just gonna cos a ruck; your ex will be pissed, and even if you take your daughter on hols, they will be have bad memories.

Eh, that's bollox tbh...if he wants to take his daughter on holidays, he shouldn't have to 'sell' the idea to anyone.

I agree with Ricardo.
Ask what the reasons for not going are.
If they're pap, then calmly ask for her to write those reasons out, and sign them.
She'll know you're playing the legal card, but you're doing it in an implied way without a row.

G'luck man...

Grimlock

I know this hasn't been suggested by others but is it possible that your ex-wife is worried about her other daughter.
If *and i assuming here* your daughter has not been abroad on holidays, if she is constantly talking about travelling, I'm guessing she hasn't been.....
But from the mothers perspective one daughter goes on holidays and the other does not, one comes back talking about great experiences when the other has spent the weekend running around home.
It might seem obvious to you but to a child it may not be so black and white, it may be difficult for her younger sister to understand why her older sister gets a holiday but she doesn't.

Just a thought.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Grimlock
But from the mothers perspective one daughter goes on holidays and the other does not, one comes back talking about great experiences when the other has spent the weekend running around home

too bad tbh – and not his problem, the mother can always do something with the other daughter while they are away.
Ph3n0m has every right to go away with his daughter if he chooses and it is up to his ex to deal with the situation.
Not only that, but it is also something that the other child will have to deal with as they grow up together.
Families are not the same as they used to be and his ex will just have to deal with the changes she has self imposed on herself and her other daughter.

Grimlock

I wasn't trying to make excuses for the mother or give reasons why he could not take his daughter.
You are right it is not his worry or responsibility.
But it is hers and I was just throughing an idea of what might be concerning the mother, maybe. But from what i've read she's not logical/ rational enough to think like that.
Looks more like selfishness than concern.

Ph3n0m

just to correct one mistake, myself and my daughter's mother were never married, we were simply bf and gf.

i made it a purpose to get everything into court, i.e. maintenance, custody, visitation, gaurdianship, even visitation rights for my mother (if i ever died, she would legally be able to request seeing my daughter)

well the "discussion" will take place tonight, so thank you for all your thoughts and opinions - just hope I can reason with her and that whatever the outcome, it benefits my daughter and then me (to a lesser extent)

Sleepy

Best of luck Ph3n0m. You sound like a good father so I hope you're given the chance to be.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Ph3n0m
well the "discussion" will take place tonight, so thank you for all your thoughts and opinions - just hope I can reason with her and that whatever the outcome, it benefits my daughter and then me (to a lesser extent)

well good luck with it Ph3n0m
let us know how you got on

Ph3n0m

thanks, been trying for the past 9 years, and it never gets easier but hell its all in the name of good fun and the idea of having a female mini-me running around trying to take over the world

Ph3n0m

OK so the discussion went ahead as expected


HOWEVER, despite my thoughts, she in no way shape or form told me I couldnt take my daughter away

I wasted 20 minutes listening to her telling me that she wants the phone number and hotel of where we are staying and what backups do I have in place in case I got sick while away (not even if my daughter got sick).

I mean, really people, these are retarded questions you would ask a 2 year old - she obviously thinks I would just go away and not tell her, either that or she just wants to pester me with childish and ridiculous questions.

Plus aswell she wants to be at the airport when we fly out - which I think is a bit foolish, especially since I am never put off when they leave during the week on holidays and I cant wave my daughter off ( a simple phone call the morning she leaves is sufficient, since I would have already said my good-byes the weekend previous to her leaving)

I suppose I should be glad it wasnt as serious as expected, but dammit I feel pretty much like a scolded child, with her checking up on my plans. I would stress that even before I do anything with my daughter, her mother is always told well in advance, so why should this be any different - nothing is different, she is just trying to get me riled up and flustered.

a happy ending for my daughter, and a "pissed off" me - couldnt have gone any better

Typedef

Nah.

From experience you expected the woman to be irrational and argumentative.

For what it's worth I think you 'should' get a legally established right, to have things like vacation time with your daughter.

Regretably in Ireland since you're a man, your real world rights and abilities to influence an Irish court in your favour are about ==><== that size, you can see the Dads marching about Temple Bar every now and then, nobody pays any attention, but, you know they march anyway.

To be honest though, you have a 'right' to be able to take decisions and spend time with your daughter and the fact that 'this' time her mother *eventually* became reasonable about it, doesn't diminish the fact that you a) expected less from experience and b) shouldn't have to contort yourself to please your ex, in order to see your daughter.

My sense is you need something legal, since basically, your parental rights shouldn't be dictated by the whims of your daughter's mother.

I think you're to be commended for wanting to be involved in your daughter's life and believe me, I understand what it's like to be excluded by insane/melavolent people, had my half brother and sister been younger or at the time, had I been older, I would have simply sued my father for that right and be damned with playing nice with him, during the 12 some years he consistently 'lied' to them about Daddy's little secret.

Sigh. I guess that's why my own advice to you would be not to put up with shit or the ability of another to cause you shit, for access rights, that should not and therefore 'must' not, be subject to debate.